Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive350

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Contents 1 Edit war over multiple articles 2 Abmin abuse Pats1 3 Back from ban and back at it 4 vandalism and reverting more then 3 times in less then 24 hours 5 Kie250 (talk · contribs) 6 User:Lumturo 7 User:Papa Smurf 690 8 Unapproved bot? 9 TfD page not updating 10 Block and ban needed 11 User:207.237.79.181 12 Incivility and assumptions of bad faith by User:Blueanode 13 Banned sock puppet is back, Cody Finke aka MascotGuy 14 Balouch (Kashmir) 15 Slow revert war on Iron law of oligarchy 16 User:To the lake 17 Suspicious account 18 Farsi --> Persian 19 user:Sfacets 19.1 Sfacets indefinitely blocked 20 Repeated removal of tags at Holodomor denial 20.1 Exit death spiral? 20.2 Unprotection 21 Jon Awbrey Meta*SockPuppet 22 User:Dark Sunshine 23 User:Isimsizzorbebe 24 Naomi Almeida 25 User:Lilgunner94 Reverting talk page. 26 Dihydrogen Monoxide banner war 27 Chris Frangou - sockpuppetry 28 Issue with userbox 29 Special Case 30 User:Polysynaptic getting out of hand 31 User:Bluemarine/User:Mattsanchez again 32 User:81.153.131.222 33 Disruptive actions of User:Smsarmad 34 Static IP vandal 83.100.160.154 (again) 35 Please help monitor Adam Yahiye Gadahn‎ 36 User using user page to attack other editors 36.1 Stalking and Harrassment 37 WB/UPN Intrastate Template Deletion resulting in inadvertent CW Intrastate Templates deletion 38 User:The Noosphere 38.1 For the record 39 TfD page not updating 40 User:Leftcoastbreakdown and American Apparel 41 Need Administrators Attention to this checkuser findings 42 Needing a Little Help 43 User:Yeanold Viskersenn 44 "Vandalism" 45 Valediction 46 M People revert 47 Associated vandal sockpuppetry 48 Current DYK Main Page Image vandalism 49 Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_oxymora_2 50 Repeated reverts of sourced statements, harassment, and tendentious edits by Biophys 51 Fake articles and vandalism relating to Victoria Beckham 52 List of Scottish monarchs‎ 53 User Xixaxu is using my talk page for his personal affairs 54 Alliance for School Choice 55 206.207.175.135 (talk · contribs) 56 Page move vandalism at 19:26, 8 January 2008 57 Harvard class project disrupting Wikipedia via meatpuppetry on articles 57.1 Alleged meatpuppet speaks out 57.2 Outside view 58 User:TheOnly ones has issued a slew of disparaging personal attacks at me 59 Learning Opportunity 60 User:S Seagal's talk page comments 61 Jaakobou (talk · contribs) 61.1 Twinkle 61.2 User:Jaakobou, WP:RfArb 61.3 User:Jaakobou in real-time 62 Concerns of admin abuse by Nihonjoe 63 WB/UPN Intrastate Template Deletion resulting in inadvertent CW Intrastate Templates deletion 64 Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/BillCJ 65 Half-dozen hours since unblock request 66 Resumption of IP vandalism after block 67 Unacceptable edits 68 Would someone sort out this page? 69 User:Hoserjoe 69.1 Detailed history from LaraLove

[edit] Edit war over multiple articles

Osli73 (talk · contribs) and Grandy Grandy (talk · contribs) are edit warring over a large number of articles, reverting each other and calling each other vandals. Corvus cornix_talk 22:39, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

It looks like a case of them falling out somewhere and taking it personally. They should be told not to approach each other if they can't act maturly.--Phoenix-wiki 22:44, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

@OSLI73 is the one who starts edit wars and other examples of vandalism:

@OSLI73 Block log:

• 12:23, 5 December 2007, Stifle blocked Osli73 (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 24 hours ‎ (Three-revert rule violation: Bosnian Mujahideen)
• 07:45, 24 July 2007 WikiLeon blocked Osli73 (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 1 month.
• 07:37, 24 July 2007 WikiLeon blocked Osli73 (account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 3 months.
• 02:26, 23 March 2007 Thatcher131 blocked Osli73 (anon. only, account creation blocked, autoblock disabled) with an expiry time of 2 weeks ‎ (violating revert limit on Srebrenica massacre see Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Kosovo)
• 01:48, 1 March 2007 Jayjg blocked Osli73 (anon. only, account creation blocked) with an expiry time of 2 weeks ‎ (violation of arbcom revert parole on Srebrenica massacre again)
• 09:48, 18 December 2006 Srikeit blocked Osli73 with an expiry time of 1 week ‎ (Sockpuppeteering and directly violating his arbcom probation and revert parole)
• 00:49, 5 September 2006 Blnguyen blocked Osli73 with an expiry time of 96 hours ‎ (did about 10 reverts on Srebrenica massacre in about 2 hours)

Sometimes he is signed in, sometimes he is not, but he vandalised the articles all the time. Do smth! --Grandy Grandy (talk) 22:45, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I would like to clarify that I have not called Grandy Grandy (talk · contribs) a "vandal". I have, however, reverted his deletion of tags and clearly WP:POV and WP:OR edits which he is not willing to discuss or seek mediation for. I realize it's inappropriate and I'll stop immediately. It's just so very frustrating dealing with these types of editors...Osli73 (talk) 22:50, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I would also like to clarify that I will stop it, but @OSLI73 obviously won't. The others called him a vandal as you can see from his block log: * 09:48, 18 December 2006 Srikeit blocked Osli73 with an expiry time of 1 week ‎ (Sockpuppeteering and directly violating his arbcom probation and revert parole).--Grandy Grandy (talk) 22:56, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I blocked Grandy Grandy for 24 hours for breaking the 3RR rule on the Bosnian Genocide page. I did not know that this discussion was taking place at the same time or I would have mentioned it here sooner --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 13:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I think it is OK you blocked Grandy Grandy (but according to the rules you had to warn him befor the third revert which you didn't). The real problem is you didn't block Osli who also violated the 3RR, which is very strange and unfair as you two share the same POV regarding Bosnian Genocide article. Osli also broke 3RR in Bosnian Genocide, he wasn't just signed-in for the first time. Someone should do an IP check: [1] to see if Grandy Grandy accusation is correct, I am sure it is. It is an IP from Sweden, and Osli is from Sweden too with the same interest regarding the articles. So in my humble opinion Phillip's action was biased and unfair. Regards. The Dragon of Bosnia (talk) 14:03, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

See what I wrote under User talk:Grandy Grandy#Bosnian Genocide 3RR (Revision as of 00:33, 5 January 2008) the mention of this section was not placed on his on his page until 05:48, 5 January 2008 so when I put the block in place I was not aware of this conversation. But as I made clear on the talk page not only did I block Grandy Grandy so that there would be no accusation of bias I protected the Bosnian Genocide page for 24 hours with the "wrong version". --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 16:51, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

The page is usually protected with the current version (The last version was by Grandy Grandy), so you haven't done anything special. But, I would ask someone to do an IP check 83.250.232.71, and compares it with Osli's IPs as I am sure it is his address. Osli was earlier blocked for sockpuppeteering, so his word is just not enough. The Dragon of Bosnia (talk) 21:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) This whole thing is a mess, it has led to a lot of damage to the Wikipedia. I first noticed that Osli and Dragon were edit-warring over links to the article Bosnian Mujahideen, which is something of a POV fork from The role of foreign fighters in the Bosnian war. Then it spilled over to 7th Muslim Brigade which is a POV fork of the POV fork, not to mention the creation of Serb propaganda which is a POV fork of a whole lot of articles, and basically a dumping ground for accusations against Serbs and Serbia.

Maybe we should just community topic-ban all three. <eleland/talkedits> 21:33, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Let's go back to the case and summarize this:

Philip Baird Shearer, Osli, The Dragon of Bosnia, Grandy and sometimes Live Forever and Dchall1 are involved in the discussion about Bosnian Genocide.

• Philip Baird Shearer and Osli support one version, the rest of disputants (among them Grandy) the other version.
• Osli and Grandy started an edit war.
• Philip Baird Shearer as an admin involved in the discussion didn't warn Grandy/Osli for a breach in the 3RR policy.
• Osli and Grandy decided to stop it here.
• Philip Baird Shearer blocked his and Osli's opponent Grandy after they stopped edit warring.
• Philip Baird Shearer didn't block Osli.
• Philip Baird Shearer claims he was not aware of their conversation here.
• The Dragon of Bosnia claims Philip's action was biased.
• Eleland suddenly showed up and decided to defend Serbia and Serbs from accusations against Serbs and Serbia.

People let's get real. Regards. The Dragon of Bosnia (talk) 22:07, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Abmin abuse Pats1

I hope I am going in the right direction now, I was in error a coupple of times and then cut and pasted here. I was informed by an upper-Admin (I htink) that I may have reported somehting in the wrong area. The note from (talk) was cut and pasted with the rest. . . .

Here is my concern is a user: Pats1 twice threatend me with being banned without explanation. I may have been at the prompting of a user: chrisjnelson. I detected a possible familiarity with them. There was, I thought, a legitmate mistagging of trivia. There where three users who looked like they had a kind of history of being unkind. I had asked for a dispute resolution the best I knew how . . . After that occurred Pats1 came in and said I was doingsomething that was wrong --- he put in in his warning . . . and I thought it was mistaken. When I saw the second one I saw he was deadly serious. I then researched how he was supposed to handle things and what the rules were, especially with the power to block and in my view, I think he was in the wrong. I don't think I deserved that kind of meaness and what I think may have been a possible abuse of his Admin power. All I ask is to be treated fairly. I have not been perfect before, butonce I learned there are rules, I became confident this kindof abuse wouldn't occur.

Maybe I was wrong to assume that. It seems Pats1 had only been a Admin for a couple of months and maybe that kind of "bullying" has worked with others, but I like to edit and I think I have some things to offer and would not want to be banned inappropriately. It is scary to think that a person who may have had a connection to chrisjnelson would just jump and threaten a ban with hardly the time to investigate. It really seemed like an abuse of his "banning power". That is my view.

After all, this was a dispute. One that had occured a couple? of days ago and it was discussed. Then there was an attempt to bring in the "bigger guns" and all along, I was simply disputing the tivia tag. It is my view that Tivia is discouraged, but if you read the objectors chrisjnelson and others. . . it was the content the objected to, not the style. In the Tivia instructions there is a section "What this guidline is not". It is that I think is right.Nonetheless. when I was warned it was not for 3 RR as Pats1 NOW claims in my talk page. It was for essentially deleting portions of an article, which was never true. I removed a trivia tag I thought was in error. I also looked at the track record of chris and the others and in that Ted Ginn, Jr. article he even was pretty non-wiki friendly to another poster about things. So, I was dubios of those who objected to the content. It was almost like trying to misread to Trivia guidelines. But, I cannot be sure.

I didn't like being treated badly, espaiclly when I was following rules the best I could and since there is a record of what was done I think you can see that Pats1 overstepped his authority when he didn't give the correct reason for a potential band, made it seem to me it was to be punitive for perhaps defying him. He wouldn't communicate, well, until he knew I was serious about going "over his head", as it were. Only then did he try to explain and that was about as insulting as anything else.

So, I was hoping for an explanation and an apology but it has gone too far. I don't feel safe in editing with a person whose actions are so drastic and terse. I just don't think it was needed and I think you might want to reviewthis case, In fact I ask you do do that. Thank you. 72.0.36.36 (talk) 06:02, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I note Pats1's edit summary : "(There isn't any "dispute" here. Trivia sections, no matter what they're named ("Notes" or "Personal" or whatever) are "to be avoided" unless temporary, when they're tagged to be inserted in prose.)" seems a little erroneous: There is no policy saying they are to be removed, & this does not justify a total removal of the material. The place for this, though, Is AN/I. DGG (talk) 05:41, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Response from Pats1 - I was directed to Ted Ginn, Jr. by User:Chrisjnelson on my talk page. As an admin, I checked the situation, saw that this IP had been reverted by a few different users after this IP renamed the trivia section of the Ted Ginn, Jr. article as "Notes" and removed the trivia tag that had been previously applied. Keep in mind there was a source code comment explaining why the tag was there - the section was trivia, no matter how you sliced it. There was a note about Ginn's learning disability, another about a lyrical reference, and one with his jersey number history. Under WP:TRIVIA, applying the trivia tag to call for the insertion of these trivia items into the prose was perfectly acceptable, and as I've seen, removing such a tag is generally considered to be removal of material as long as the tag was appropriately placed. This IP then "called for arbitration" in the matter. Quite simply, there was nothing to arbitrate. And in essence, I was the "arbitrator" - I was an admin called to the situation. But apparently this IP didn't agree with the simple Wikipedia guideline I was applying, and called for me to "find another admin" - which was totally unnecessary - any other admin who knew WP:TRIVIA would say the same thing. This IP then "called for dispute resolution." Again, DP is a set of procedures to follow if there is a content dispute. First of all, I think this IP mistook it as a process for some third party "arbitrator" (was I not that third party anyway?). Secondly, the removal of an appropriate tag is not a content dispute. This IP also went ahead and found a couple of comments from previous, totally irrelevant article discussions made "the objectors" - those who had reverted his attempts to remove the tag, including me. Additionally, this IP left a series of messages on my talk page, telling me about how my talk page warnings to him/her were "threats" and how they "proved X, Y, and Z about my administrator status." This IP also went and posted his/her grievance with me and the article at AN3 (3RR), which was quickly removed by User:B. B then went to the Ginn discussion, told the IP he/she had violated 3RR, and that his/her argument was both directed to the wrong noticeboard and, in general, not valid. The IP instead posted his/her grievance at the Admin talk board, where User:DGG made the post above. I then informed DGG that the dispute I was "involved" with was only about the removal of the tag, and not for the removal of the material. Chrisjnelson had gone in and integrated the trivia into prose, which was what WP:TRIVIA calls for, so I'm not sure if that's what DGG was referring to or not. Quite simply, this is the case of an IP not understanding some of the warning/dispute processes of Wikipedia and then blaming it on me, leaving a serious of messages about my "abuse." Pats1 ^T/C 00:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Back from ban and back at it

[edit] vandalism and reverting more then 3 times in less then 24 hours

the user http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dahn vandalised and reverted more then 4 times in a day without giving reasons this article http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Romanians&action=history. In addition he refuses to discuss the reasons in talk page. Adrianzax (talk) 15:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I think you'll want to report this at the three revert rule noticeboard. Shell ^babelfish 16:08, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kie250 (talk · contribs)

I feel like someone should have a look at this user's user page. Almost every edit they've made has been to their user space, and the ones they haven't are generally vandalism or inappropriate. Her edits should also be oversighted as she's given out her age and full name and she's an underage user [2].--Crossmr (talk) 17:11, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

The user page appears to be a clear violation of WP:UP#NOT. I'll list this at WP:MFD immediately. Caknuck (talk) 17:44, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Looking at her contribs, I see no intention after over 100 edits to use Wikipedia for any purpose other than voicing her personal opinions. Someguy1221 (talk) 18:33, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User:Lumturo

I need some help from a fellow administrator with a situation I've fallen into with User:Lumturo. On December 22nd, an AfD process (in which I was not involved) deleted two related articles; Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Begriffsschrift and Interlingua compared and the same AfD covered Interlingua and the characteristica universalis compared. Since December 22, he's recreated the first article twice and the second once, most recently yesterday. I deleted it for the obvious reason that it was a recreation of AfD'd material. The user has many Wikilawyerish reasons why the policy about recreation of AfD'd material doesn't apply to him, even though the article has the same title it's different, and that sort of thing. He's been telling a non-administrative user, User:CastAStone, that CastAStone's attempts to keep him to policy are "disruptive" and "harmful". I told him in no uncertain terms that his only option was Deletion review, but I'm afraid I've completely lost patience with his antics, and said so. Rather than follow my instincts and block him for disruptive editing, I've decided to ask someone among my fellow administrators to deal with him because my emotions are now engaged, and that's wrong. I note as I write this that he's posting another Wikilawyerish note at Help desk because he's "threatened with a block for re-posting an encyclopedic article", and I now throw up my hands -- this has to be someone else's problem, I'm sorry to say. If there's something further that I need to do, I'd appreciate knowing about it from a more experienced administrator than myself. Accounting4Taste:talk 18:02, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I am otherwise engaged in the real world and need to be offline for some hours; my apologies for leaving this situation hanging. Accounting4Taste:talk 18:09, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Oooh...I've never been mentioned at the Administrators Noticeboard before...exciting... Anyhoo, User:Lumturo has been making fallacious arguments and repeatedly asking for policy to back up consensus even though I explained to him that policy is based on consensus. While he did accuse me of being "disruptive" and "harmful", Lumturo has assumed good faith and been civil with me, and has not attempted to recreate the pages since the lengthy part of this discussion started. Frustrating and disruptive have a line between them, I do not believe that Lumturo has crossed it. If someone can present him with a better explanation that I did it might be helpful, but I do not believe that his actions at this point warrant administrative action, beyond perhaps salting those pages for a time.--CastAStone/^/(talk) 18:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

User: Accounting4Taste is not telling the whole truth. The bottom line is that I haven't done anything wrong or prohibited on Wikipedia, and User: Accounting4Taste has threatened to block me. I said at the help desk that I think this block should be prevented, and I'll say so here.

Before I reposted the characteristica article, I responded to the reasons for the deletion by revising it and thoroughly sourcing it inline with reliable references. I think it was encyclopedic to begin with, and if it wasn't, it is now. As far as I know, it's perfectly acceptable to repost an article after thoroughly revising it in this way. I have also revised and throughly sourced the begriffsschrift article, and I was ready to post it when User: Accounting4Taste threatened to block me.

I never suggested that any Wikipedia policies didn't apply to me. What I said was that the deletions of my articles were contrary to Wikipedia policy. First, my articles were prodded, which shouldn't be done because they've been through a deletion discussion (WP: PROD). Then, they were speedy deleted, which also shouldn't be done because they were substantially revised to address the original reasons for deletion (WP:CSD).

The other user also wasn't trying to hold me to policy, which I was already following. He was saying things that, as far as I know, are not in policy in the first place: that any article comparing two things is original research, that the inappropriate deletions were within process, and so on. When I asked him to support his statement about articles comparing two things, he answered that it wasn't written down but was still a widely accepted guideline. In responding to him, I wasn't bucking policy but simply saying that I thought he was mistaken. I did say that his actions had disrupted my evening because they had, and that it was harmful to delete encyclopedic articles, because I think it is. I also suggested that he should just move on, because this was taking his time and mine.

I don't know what User: Accounting4Taste means by Wikilawyerish. I do think administrators should understand and abide by Wikipedia policies, and that I am already doing that.

Thank you, CastAStone, for responding in a balanced way and saying that I've been civil and have assumed good faith. I always try to do that, and really my concern has to do with User: Accounting4Taste - especially since he's an administrator.

I'm pretty sure I haven't made any fallacious arguments. I don't know what "asking for policy to back up consensus" means, but again, what I've said is that the prodding and speedy deletions of my articles were contrary to policy.

My main concern is that I don't think I should be blocked. I have two articles that are carefully written and are thoroughly and reliably sourced; I think I should be permitted to re-post them without fear of a block. I did that with the characteristica article, and User: Pedro was fine with it. I also think I should be able to write other reliably sourced, encyclopedic articles if I choose.

I would be glad to post the Begriffsschrift article somewhere, since it isn't available in its current form. I'm sorry this is so long-winded! Thank you for your help, and have a good day! Lumturo (talk) 20:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

If a person were sincerely interested in doing what's best for the community, with a minimum of disruption, one would rewrite the article in their User space and then post a request for review at WP:DRV. The fact that the user has not done this and instead has made attacks against the admin who is trying in good faith to get procedures followed, would tend to indicate, to me, that they're not interested in collegiality, but are more interested in an agenda. Corvus cornix_talk 20:35, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I didn't even know that was the deletion review procedure. I still don't know how to do it or what user space refers to, but I would be glad to read at the link below and try to follow the procedure.

At this point, it's more likely that I'll just resign from Wikipedia after the way I've been treated. Now I'm being accused of insincerity, attacking an administrator, being uninterested in collegiality, having an agenda, and apparently of not following procedure. I don't think any of that is true or fair. Lumturo (talk) 20:56, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

There's not an argument here to make. If an article has been deleted through AfD, then the recourse is at Wikipedia:Deletion Review. Any arguments made there need to indicate why an admin was incorrect in deleting the article (i.e. the deletion was done out of process, that it did not represent consensus, or that it was in violation of policy), rather than rehashing the reasons given in the AfD. Only in the most extraordinary of cases will an article be restored after an AfD without going through deletion review. Really, that's all there is to it. I'll post a message on User talk:Lumturo emphasizing this. Tijuana Brass (talk) 20:37, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User:Papa Smurf 690

Talk page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kannie (talk • contribs) 22:51, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

• Papa Smurf 690 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) Rjd0060 (talk) 22:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

This user has made several inappriorate pages, all of which so far have been speedily deleted. Due to the frequency and weakly bad already demnostrated of repeating this over and over again, he started out on second level warnings. He is up to his last vandalism warning because of this behavior, and I believe he will do it again. Adminstrater action may need to be taken. --Kannie | talk 22:47, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Since the users' final warning at 22:42 (UTC), the user hasn't created any more pages. - Rjd0060 (talk) 22:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unapproved bot?

Chankara (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Made a few edits with summary "robot adding..."...but as far as I can tell, this bot isn't approved. - Rjd0060 (talk) 22:48, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps they're a non-native English speaker, and are just copy/pasting the edit summary used by the bots who add inter-wiki-links without knowing what they mean? Have you tried asking them what they're doing?--69.118.143.107 (talk) 22:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Nope. Rather than wait for the user to continue, if it is an unapproved bot, I brought it to Admin attention. Then I was sidetracked, but I just left a note. - Rjd0060 (talk) 23:01, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

So far they seem to be editing at a rate of about 1 inter-wiki link every 4 hours... I would think that an actual bot account would have a slightly higher throttle.--69.118.143.107 (talk) 23:05, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

When I try google searching for Chankara and Wikipedia I get ru:Участник:Константин С. Белик, could this be the same user?--69.118.143.107 (talk) 22:58, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Your guess is as good as mine, considering I speak English. - Rjd0060 (talk) 23:02, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

(ec x4):::No, I guess he's adding names in Telugu for the India Wiki, given the name. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 23:08, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

My best guess would be that this person is of a foreign language; the ru: user has 'chankara' in their email. Probably doesn't speak English and just copy and pasted an edit summary (yes, I just compromised two ideas above).   jj137 ^♠ 23:04, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Or, perhaps, they are just working with bot software. I remember one time I was working with my pywikipedia bot software and accidentally made an edit saying in the summary: Robot: Clearing sandbox.   jj137 ^♠ 23:06, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Re to Rodhullandemu: Perhaps he has interwiki accounts set up.   jj137 ^♠ 23:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Possibly. Chankara is an Indian name, if the Russian wiki account is his, that would explain it.--Rodhullandemu (Talk) 23:19, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

The Russian account is named "Konstantin S. Belik" - not a very close match, and I think it's a coincidence. But this account at the Telugu Wikipedia te:సభ్యులు:C.Chandra Kanth Rao must surely be the same person. I think he's simply tranlating articles into Telugu and then adding interwiki links. Doesn't appear to be a bot at all. Someone could try adding a message to the talk page on Telugu Wikipedia, but I don't think there's any problem beyond the slightly confusing edit summaries. --Reuben (talk) 00:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I have left a message on the Telugu Wiki explaining the issue, asking him to not use "bot" in his edit summaries here, and inviting him to contact me for clarification. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 01:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TfD page not updating

The bot which used to update the TfD page is no longer working. For some reason, Zorglbot no longer updates the TfD page like it used to. Could someone who owns a bot that is authorized to do this sort of thing please fix this? Thanks. RyanGerbil10(Говорить!) 00:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Block and ban needed

ElectricEye (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) has come out of "retirement" to harass Theresa knott on her talk page (starting with the fifth comment down in this thread). In May of 2007 EE changed their talk page to read, "Electric Eye has withdrawn his support of Wikipedia and has joined the ranks of those who oppose it." (diff of user page change and link to user page). He/she has continued to reiterate this point to anyone who leaves a message on his talk page. As of this writing, they have also begun commenting on Jimbo Wales' page (diff). Intimidation, harrassment, whatever you want to call it, coming from someone who has "joined the ranks" of those who oppose WP (whatever that means) demonstrates that they do not need an account here and should (imo) be blocked if not permanently banned. Thank you, R. Baley (talk) 23:20, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Notification of this thread here and here. R. Baley (talk) 23:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Too late; I blocked him while you were leaving the messages. Happy new year, TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:34, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Good call IMO, TenOfAllTrades. This alone seems like a pretty good reason to block, as you mentioned on his talk page. That statement is a fair warning that the user was going to be disruptive. - Rjd0060 (talk) 23:43, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I would like to request that you reconsider and unblock EE.

This whole incident is making a lot of people upset. A lot of people on all sides are being uncivil and snippy with each other. None of this is good. ElectricEye was not doing good things. But he was doing not good things in response to stuff that he saw Theresa Knott doing on the Arbcom case which was also not good.

No warnings were left for EE that his behavior had crossed the line into abusive enough for user behavior sanction until I did just a bit ago, right before you blocked.

Blocking in this instance without warning and trying to calm the situation down is likely to lead to more drama, not less. Many involved parties in many parts of this dispute have been warned or asked to calm down by several people now. Please extend drama-reducing civil behavior requests rather than blocking as a first response. Thanks. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 23:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I told him what he was doing was harassment here. And respectfully, I would disagree with your assessment whether I had left one (of sorts) or not. R. Baley (talk) 23:53, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, and the one edit EE made after that warning was still confrontational, but much more civil. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:08, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

After that, he went to Jimbo's page to spread it around. I would strongly object to any unblock. R. Baley (talk) 00:21, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I seriously don't think he is upset. Because unless he is a sockpuppet, and I don't think he is, he is completely uninvolved. Check his contributions. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 23:53, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

You weren't directly involved in the Jimsch62 / VO / OrangeMarlin case either, and look how you ended up feeling about it, Theresa...

The case is making a lot of people crazy, both what happened and how everyone is responding to what happened. This is really bad. Arbcom members are explicitly leaving civility warnings on arb case talk pages, several relatively uninvolved people are asking people to calm down, etc.

I don't honestly see what he did on your talk page as worse than the worst you did on the case talk page.

You have acknowledged and responded to requests to calm down; I think we owe him (and everyone else) at least one round of the same courtesy and chance to stop the problem behavior. Even if they are mostly uninvolved in the project now, they haven't been trolling elsewhere that I know of to establish that they are in fact operating just in bad faith, so we need to AGF there (and elsewhere, about everyone involved). Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:01, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes I ended up, after mutiply tooing and froing quite angry. That's not the case here. He's trolling. But if you want to unblock him and block him later I don't care to be honest. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 00:06, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

He opposes Wikipedia and there is no evidence to suggest that any contributions he makes will benefit the project. He is trying to stir up further trouble with the arbcom case and is simply trolling. I would support a ban at least for a while - maybe he will return with a positive attitude, but running to Jimbo and trying to cause trouble is in no way useful. violet/riga (t) 00:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

(scratching head) Surely you didn't just imply that we should ban people for complaining to or appealing to Jimbo... Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Nope. We ban people for stating that they have "joined the ranks of those who oppose" Wikipedia, and follow through on that statement for most of a year, and then start the new year coming out of nowhere to be an Arb gadfly and to bother editors who are interested in contributing to Wikipedia. Really, if there were any evidence at all that this individual were interested in adding to the project I might have given a warning—but I just don't see that evidence. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 00:33, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

For most of the last year, they weren't editing at all. Is there behavioral evidence off-wiki somewhere I need to be made aware of? Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 00:44, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Obviously not - that wasn't the only thing I said in support of the block. violet/riga (t) 00:37, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

George I think it would be fair to say at this point that you are unlikely to get the agreement of the blocking admin or to get concensus that unblocking is the right way to go. Which leaves you with a choice, you can choose to go it alone, or defer to the judgment of the multiple people who who think the block is good. If you choose to go it alone, and he reoffends you'd better be willing to block him yourself sharpish . But if you are willing to do that, and take the risk that he will disrupt when you are not around and so people might think you were foolish to unblock then go for it. I've unblocked people unilaterally before, usually stating on thier userpage that I am staking my own reputation on thier good behaviour. This sometimes works as the unblocked person doesn't want to let you down. Other times they can't help themselves . Anyway it's not that big a deal either way.Theresa Knott | The otter sank 01:08, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I was going to add my opinion to this matter, but after his last comments on his Talk page (which included promises to breed incivility & evade blocks ), Coren protected EE's talk page -- an action I support, FWIW. The matter is now moot. -- llywrch (talk) 09:07, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, he not only promised to evade blocks but flat out stated that it is a regular activity of his. I would have stated something in the thread here about my protection if I had remember that's how he ended up on my watchlist in the first place. For what it's worth, I would oppose unblocking an editor that actually promises to be as disruptive as possible and break every policy in the book. — Coren ^(talk) 21:52, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah, yeah, with that set of comments I no longer have any interest in supporting an unblock. AGF is no longer warranted. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 06:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User:207.237.79.181

This user keeps adding "External Links" to a research paper mill website, "freeonlineresearchpapers.com". These are the only edits this user is making. All of the links so far have been removed. This user needs to be watched. Victorianist (talk) 17:56, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

At least give further notice on the user's talk page per WP:TT. The edits are infrequent enough that this doesn't require immediate administrator action. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 18:17, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm new to the process. I'll know next time. Victorianist (talk) 16:03, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I took the liberty of adding in the next level of warning. This should be continued for further link spamming, but the admins only really need to intervene if the problem becomes serious and continuous over a period of time. Otherwise, watching, reverting, and warning will probably suffice. Gromlakh (talk) 02:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for helping out.Victorianist (talk) 16:03, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Incivility and assumptions of bad faith by User:Blueanode

Dear fellow Wikipedians, please see [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22], [23], [24], [25], [26], etc. Within the past week and half, this user has gone from aggresively criticizing Judgesurreal777 to now going after me. I am not sure how to react to these, i.e. if I should just ignore him or if this is a pattern of behavior that merits administrator attention. Incidentally, while I may disagree with Judgesurreal777 about article notability, we have been civil with each other elsewhere: [27], [28], [29], etc. As for the accusation against me by Blueanode, I know I am a strong inclusionist, but I really consider AfDs a minor aspect of my contributions here and spend much more time welcoming new users or using the random article feature to check articles for grammar, references, and the like. And as another editor noted, I participate in a number of discussions nominated by different users. It has nothing to do with who nominates them. I just use this page to see if there's any that I think are worth keeping and/or that I think I can help improve. If something is a total hoax, I am more than willing to suggest deletion, as I did here. Sure, not everyone agrees with me in discussions (although a good deal have) and I think many administrators are able to decide for themselves if my argument is valid or not. Anyway, I just thought I would seek input on this matter. Thank you for your time and consideration. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 19:13, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know the background of this, but messsages like most of the above ("deletionist troll", "pathetic", "yoy bastard" [sic], "I despise you") are not tolerated per WP:NPA. I have issued this user a final warning, and he should be blocked after the next edit in this vein. Sandstein (talk) 23:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Dear Sandstein, thank you for the fair response and have a pleasant evening! Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 00:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

This is not justified, leave me alone. Blueanode (talk) 10:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Banned sock puppet is back, Cody Finke aka MascotGuy

Codyfinke15 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)

Banned sock puppet

• Codyfinke (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)
• Codyfinke2007 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)
• Codyfinke6 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)

etc.

This guy just keeps going and going and going...

The Energizer bunny from hell.

- Jeremy (Jerem43 (talk) 01:05, 6 January 2008 (UTC))

Codyfinke is not MascotGuy. MascotGuy acts differently.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 01:07, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Both refuse to edit Talk pages, both make unsourced, untruthful edits to articles about TV shows and Southern California subjects. Both refuse to stop editing no matter how many times they're warned and blocked. How is this not MascotGuy? Corvus cornix_talk 04:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

MascotGuy has a known user name pattern. The Codyfinke user does not match that pattern. As MascotGuy was discovered to have autism due to editting patterns and subjects, it is highly unlikely that he changed any way that he edits. The two may edit similarly, but they are still two different individuals. I only yesterday blocked a set of users because it's activity that MascotGuy does. I haven't seen what Codyfinke does, but I can tell that this is not MascotGuy.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 04:38, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

To summarize what I just said, Codyfinke and MascotGuy are two separate entities that act similarly in edits, but differently in other ways (MascotGuy accounts are named differently than Codyfinke accounts, for one).—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 04:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

MascotGuy was only identified as autistic by someone claiming to be his mother. Corvus cornix_talk 05:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay then. Still, Codyfinke ≠ MascotGuy based on behavior outside of article edits.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 05:11, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I did not identify him as Mascot guy originally, some one else did and I went with that figuring they knew better. - Jeremy (Jerem43 (talk) 07:48, 6 January 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Balouch (Kashmir)

The user who created the Balouch (Kashmir) article doesn't have a very good grasp of the English language, and has written a rather poorly-written article. Editing tags have been placed on the article and the editor added him/herself as the source for the information and wrote on the Talk page that somebody could email them at their supplied email address or can call them on their supplied phone number to verify the information. I blanked the Talk page and requested that they not provide personal information. I then added a cleanup-rewrite tag on the article. The editor responded by removing all of the cleanup tags and putting an aggressive "mind your own business" reply to me on their Talk page. I've pointed to WP:CIVIL and WP:OWN. What would be the best way to approach a new user whose primary language is obviously not English? I've never run into a situation like this. Corvus cornix_talk 05:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

He's now making unuseful edits to Wikipedia:Verifiability. Corvus cornix_talk 06:17, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

1. Try and determine his native language.
2. Ask users who speak that language to get involved. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 08:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Slow revert war on Iron law of oligarchy

An anonymous user User:70.185.113.212 keeps reverting to a polemical version of the article. From discussion on his talk page, it looks unlikely that he will accept other views. Please keep an eye on that article, thanks. Kosebamse (talk) 10:42, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User:To the lake

Anyone feel like peeking at Special:Contributions/To_the_lake? Seems to have quite a problem with WP:CIVIL, but that may be just me. Yngvarr 11:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Also plenty of nonsense at WP:RfA and his sig links to Image:Fellatio.png. Seems like a disruption only account but would like a second opinion before taking action. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 11:30, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Sure seems to me like a disruptive, WP:POINTy account. Seems to be also someone who is already pretty knowledgeable for a brand new account. Pastordavid (talk) 11:42, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I blocked him for disruption after he nominated himself for adminship. I don't trust self noms. --Bongwarrior (talk) 11:47, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Well done. Snowolf ^{How can I help?} 11:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

And I struck his comments from all RFAs to which he "contributed" with explanatory note added. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

User:The Rambling Man filed a checkuser case and linked back to here. The case is now complete and has turned up some rather interesting results - Alison ^❤ 13:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I've blocked all accounts that were still not blocked. John Reaves 13:20, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suspicious account

Derias (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) is a single-purpose account uploading images of military insignia; another user has expressed concern that the user is a sockpuppet of blocked Roitr (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) and that the images should be deleted as hoaxes. - Mike Rosoft (talk) 13:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I saw > 100 images at CAT:CSD tagged with a link to Wikipedia:Long_term_abuse/Roitr and have deleted all of them. --After Midnight ⁰⁰⁰¹ 14:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Farsi --> Persian

Every month or so someone decides to start to change every instance of "Farsi" on the wikipedia to "Persian".

The most recent person to decide to start this campaign, like many of his predecessors, is prepared to make this change -- even in direct quotes, as they did here.

I am not a linguist. I didn't study linguistics at University. I don't know whether real linguists think Farsi should always be replaced with Persian. However, even if I had studied linguistics, wouldn't it be a violation of WP:OR to make this change? Verifiability is a core princiiple. It seems to me that if the source we are referencing uses "Farsi" our article should use "Farsi", and if our source uses "Persian" we should use "Persian".

This particular user has made this change to dozens or hundreds of articles in the last couple of days -- all without any edit summary. That is disturbing.

FWIW previous anti-Farsi vigilantes seem to have largely succeeded. All the DoD documents about the Guantanamo captives use "Farsi". According to these DoD documents, and some other documents, Farsi is the other major language spoken in Afghanistan. But, according to the wikipedia, Dari (Persian) is the name of this language --Farsi isn't even mentioned. I think this is a disservice to our readers.

I have asked some of these anti-Farsi vigilantes to explain what they are doing. It has seemed to me that those prepared to offer an explanation innocently offer one where they acknowledge their efforts are based on what more experience wikipedians would recognize as original research.

Some other wikipedians have noted a phenomenon they find disturbing -- participants who have engaged in spirited partisan edit-warring in the non-English wikis carrying those partisan battles over to the English wikipedia. I am wondering whether this isn't another instance.

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 13:48, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

• Based on your comments this appears to be a content dispute, and not an area where administrators can intervene. You might attempt some of the elements of dispute resolution outlined at this page. If there are conduct issues regarding specific editors, please clarify and provide diffs/links. ^Avruchtalk 17:54, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] user:Sfacets

sfacets (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) has just finished a block and piled straigh in with this: [30]. As far as I'm concerned this is deliberately pressing the self-destruct button, I have blocked for a month because it's clear that everyone who's ever come across this user has to watch his behaviour whenever he is unblocked at present. I'm not opposed to shortening (if someone wants to take on the job of helping him not to disrupt, push POV, harass other users and in sundry other ways be a dick) or lengthening to indef if people think we should wash our hands of him. Guy (Help!) 13:20, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

This is just one in a long line of reasons that I believe we would be better off without this particular user. The user has uploaded some suspicious images in the past, fought to keep them from being deleted by making many contradictory claims (including having taken pictures before he was born) and attacking those involved in the deletion discussion and now re-uploads them on the sly despite being warned not to. This most recent action is more harassment of the editor who originally discovered the copyright infringements. Since the user does not seem to care about violating copyright, its unlikely that his presence will do anything but hurt the project. Shell ^babelfish 13:30, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I have engaged in a discussion on his talk page - it is not going well. He seems to feel that his harrassment of Will Beback and re-uploading the image which has already been deleted something like 8 times are ok. The edits to the archived RFCU page might just be a mistake, but the others seem implausible to have any non-disruptive interpretation, and he is sticking with his story that he hasn't done anything wrong.

More uninvolved editors taking a look at the situation and commenting on his talk page may help clarify in his mind that he really does have a problem. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 21:18, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Opinion provided and unblock request declined. Sandstein (talk) 22:08, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sfacets indefinitely blocked

Following the discussion on Sfacets' talk page, I have concluded that he is too disruptive and not willing to contribute to the encyclopedia under our community policies and guidelines. Pursuant to that, and given that he believes his disruptive actions were perfectly ok, I believe there's nothing we can do to reform him and that an indefinite block is in order. He has a long problem history, and is entirely unrepentant.

I have unblocked him and reblocked him indefinitely, both to clear the JzG block (legit appearance of conflict of interest question over RFC filed against JzG, though I don't believe it has underlying merit) and to impose the appropriate indef block.

As with any block of mine, especially indefinite ones of longstanding users, I invite other admins to review in detail and if you disagree feel free to undo it. I believe that this is going to be a community ban, and that he is not reformable, but I leave it up to the rest of the administrator communities' judgement whether I have acted appropriately here, etc. Thanks. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

When someone's block log is so long that you have to scroll down to read the whole thing, you get the impression that they may not fully embrace Wikipedia's norms. Support indef. Raymond Arritt (talk) 03:24, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Support indef. His behavior was why I chose not to reduce a previous block I had extended. --Coredesat 09:33, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Can't disagree. Ah well. Guy (Help!) 23:04, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I support the block. At some point it's no longer effective to try and reform a user, and we just need to block them and move on, rather than continuing to waste time which could be better spent elsewhere. --Elonka 06:52, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I also support the block. I've watchlisted and engaged with articles where Sfacets has been active. That user has been a POV pusher from his earliest to his latest edits. He's repeatedly overstepped the line, and this is just the last of many blocks. I can attest to his disruptive behavior and recalcitrant nature. I don't think that further engagement will reform him, and I think that it's reasonable to say "enough is enough." ·:· Will Beback ·:·

[edit] Repeated removal of tags at Holodomor denial

Since the creation of this page, supporters of the article have repeatedly removed every disputed tag placed on it, in spite of the fact that a substantial minority has questioned whether the article meets encyclopedic standards.

• 9:36, 25 December: User:Horlo creates the page.[31]
• 16:27, 25 December: User:Irpen tags the page with POV and OR templates.[32]
• 8:05, 27 December: User:Horlo removes the tags with the edit summary removed tags - no reason given for their being here.[33]
• 6:57, 28 December: Irpen tries to rewrite the intro to conform to NPOV.[34]
• 7:01: Horlo reverts Irpen with the comment Irpen, this is not a soap box. This is an article about Holodomor denial. The lead paragraph must explain that.[35]
• 7:04: Irpen reverts to his version with the summary I clearly explained at talk.[36]
• 7:28:Horlo reverts Irpen again, with the summary Please do not make any changes without a discussion on the talk page, not just a statement on the talk page.[37]
• 7:39: Irpen adds a totallydisputed tag with the summary: totallydisputed per persistent insertion of factually false info.[38]
• 8:50: Horlo removes the tag with the summary: Removed numbers and tag.[39] (Note that at this stage, Irpen seems to have gone on wikibreak, along with a number of other editors who were expressing concerns over the page).
• 4:39 30 December: Having arrived at the page from DYK, and noting several POV problems that will take time to fix, I add a POV tag to the Duranty section,[40], and add a comment to the talk page to explain some of my reasons for doing so.[41]
• 5:00: Having read through the article more carefully and seen what I regard as major problems, I move the tag to the top of the article,[42] and leave another note on the talk page explaining my reasons.[43]
• 18:03: Horlo removes the tag without comment.[44]
• 18:07 I restore the tag with the comment Please don't remove disputed templates when there is obviously a dispute going on.
• 18:46: User:Bandurist removes the tag without comment.[45]
• 19:18: I restore the tag, with the comment Please do not remove disputed templates when there is clearly a dispute. See Wikipedia:NPOV dispute.[46]
• 18:20, 31 December: Horlo removes the tag without comment.[47]
• 6:58: Frustrated at the tag-team tag removal and the stonewalling on the talk page, I add an AFD template in hopes of at least getting more eyes on the page. (This is the first AFD I have initiated in almost two years at the project BTW).[48]
• 14:40, 2 January: Having realized that I am in fact not alone in my concerns about the page and that many other editors have expressed the same or similar concerns, and also having realized what a singularly inappropriate forum AFD is to try and promote debate about content, I withdraw the AFD and restore the totallydisputed tag instead.[49]
• 21:23: User:Vecrumba removes the tag, with the summary withdraw your AFD and instead immediately tag the article? after your ethnic insult, this is nothing but WP:IDONTLIKEIT, tag removed.[50] (I must add that this is prototypical of the kind of response my attempts to get a discussion on content going at the article's talk page have been met with).
• 6:53, 3 January: I restore the tag, with the summary: Replace tag. Multiple editors have expressed the view that this article has serious issues.[51]
• 7:32: User:Termer removes the tag with the summary: the tag "Totallydisputed" not justified for well referenced article, please do not misuse tagging.[52]
• 12:27: I restore the tag with the comment: Well referenced when you don't even have a reference for the article's major premise? I don't think so. Please stop removing tags when you know perfectly well there is a dispute here.[53]
• 13:46: Bandurist removes the tag without comment.[54]
• 23:55: I restore the tag with the comment: For the last time, please stop removing the tag. If it's done again I will have no choice but to take the matter up with AN/I.
• 00:03, 4 January: Bandurist removes the tag without comment.[55]

To summarize the situation, a total of about 18 editors have commented on this article at the talk page or at the AFD. Of those, six, or roughly one third of editors including me, have expressed serious reservations about the page's title and/or premise and/or content.

• User:Irpen opened the talk page discussion with the comment The article is a soapbox and should be deleted. I would welcome serious contributors to help in covering this topic on wikipedia but that kind of soapboxing is totally out of question...[56]
• User:Hillock65 concurs with the comment I have to agree. The title itself is an attempt to mimic the Holocaust denial, which is troubling. There is no basis for that. All of that can be mentioned at the Holodomor article, it doesn't warrant a separate article. If there is a vote, I support redirect to the main article.[57]
• Kuban Cossack made a number of comments, including There is argument over keeping the article...knee-deep in nonsense...This article needs a lot of work![58][59]
• User:Molobo (a user who appears to support the article) poses one of the same questions I have: Isn't Holodomor denial also a term for denying that it was a genocide?[60]
• User:Jo0doe accuses the article's supporters of tr[ying] to exploit WP as a soapbox".[61]
• In addtion, at the AFD, User: Lankiveil recommended a rename (now my own preferred option) commenting that the name was inherently POV and that the article Definitely has the look of a POV fork.[62]
• User:Bogdan, at the AFD, also expressed the view, which I thoroughly endorse, that the accusation that 'Holodomor Denial' is an original research statement must be disproven in the very first sentence of the article (i.e., which published works cite the term)...it should be explained where such terminology originates (hopefully, not the Ukrainian government).[63]

My point in posting this is not to try and demonstrate that "I am right" in my concerns. It's simply to show that there is substantial dissent about the suitability of this page's title and content, surely more than enough to justify a POV tag.

I regard the removal of a POV tag to be a highly questionable action at any time, but to repeatedly remove a tag when there are clearly major concerns from multiple editors is I believe completely unjustified. POV tags are often the only method that users in the minority have for expressing their concerns about a page and for encouraging debate about content at the talk page.

The users who support this particular page have shown almost no interest in discussion of the article content or in resolving disputes, instead contenting themselves with an endless stream of bad faith accusations or at best red herring obfuscations. If the POV tag is removed, what incentive will they have for entering into debate at all? They will just ignore any concerns raised and ensure by sheer weight of numbers that they get their way on the mainpage. Gatoclass (talk) 03:24, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Response by User:Vecrumba -- I came to this late and have been met only with comments about Eastern European editor "axe-grinding". Gatoclass fails to mention that his AfD nomination went nowhere (all keep with one rename as I recall), and once he withdrew his AfD since it was obviously failing he then immediately retagged the article. Most recently, I invited Gatoclass to apologize for his uncivil and insulting comments, he asked when we would get back to discussing the article, I asked for specifics, and his response was to open the above, choosing not to respond to my request for his specific top three problems so the discussion could move forward. Gatoclass' blanket assumption of bad faith on the part of Eastern European editors and, for example, myself insisting I am participating only to shed light on the past being proof of his charges of Eastern European axe-grinding ("hoist(ed) by my own petard") is unfortunate at best. Then there is Gatoclass' statement he owes no apology (re: axe-grinding et al.) for "stating the obvious." One only has to read the current Holodomor denial article talk page. I'm sorry, but if Gatoclass is looking to identify recalcitrant parties, he only need look as far as himself. —PētersV (talk) 04:29, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but this incident report wasn't made "in response" to your supposed generous offer, you made that post while I was busy preparing the above post, and I didn't see it until I had posted here.

But in response to your purported offer to bury the hatchet, I invite users to take a closer look at the post of PetersV to which he refers, and ask themselves just how conciliatory it actually is:

...(Totallydisputed) tagging does not connote assumption of good faith on your part, I expect the tag to stay off. Let's deal with any specific factual problems first. If you apologize for your uncivil conduct and are prepared to abide by the consensus of editors once factual errors are corrected, we can make progress. If you think the editorial community here is a axe-grinding cabal out to get any opposition (you), I'm just as happy to go to arbitration enforcement over your conduct. Everyone here has better ways to spend their time than indulge spleen venting.[64]

Note that after his threat to take it to arbitration, to which I reminded him that all users conduct is put under the spotlight in an arbcom case,[65] he responded thus:

I'm sorry, but I am also tired of "reminders" about what ArbCom is going to do to me. I have asked you to deal with any issues of fact specifically one by one and you have obviously made up your mind already. I suppose this means you're not apologizing either. This would appear to conclude our dialog here. [66]

Note how his threat to take me to arbcom is parlayed into my alleged threat to take him there. I'm afraid this is a classic example of PetersV's modus operandi, which is to say his apparent inability to take responsibility for his own attitude and conduct. Gatoclass (talk) 08:13, 4 January 2008 (UTC)]]

Oh please. You threaten AN/I and indicate the conduct of *all* (your asterisks) editors will be under scrutiny should things go to Arbcom. I react to your threat saying I tire of those tactics and say fine, take this wherever you want to go with it officially, and that's now me attacking you? You can't see past your bad-faith blinders. I'm sorry that you've had editorial battles that have caused you to carry a bucket of tar and bag of feathers wherever you go to apply to axe-grinding (your perception, your words, sorry you'll keep seeing them) editors. —PētersV (talk) 16:17, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

And where have I even dealt with you that you, Gatoclass, know anything about my "modus operandi"? I've managed to reach consensus on content with paid (and now banned) propaganda pushers. Perhaps the lack of consensus here isn't all my doing. I have no conduct to be ashamed of or any responsibility to shirk for any actions I've taken. Frankly, I don't think I've ever seen anyone assume as much bad faith on the part of other editors as you. —PētersV (talk) 16:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

And on conciliation, yes, I do expect a {{totallydisputed}} tag to not be used as a tool of intimidation while editors work toward a consensus. 10, 100, 1,000 {{fact}} tags? Have at it! After an editor denigrates their editorial opposition, I would expect an act of conciliation on their part. No, just more diatribe here on how I've unfairly set upon Gatoclass in keeping with my M.O.. —PētersV (talk) 16:49, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I did tell Gatoclass I expected him to assume good faith and not re-tag the article and instead come up with specific items. His response was to post the above instead. His characterization of my removing his immediate tagging upon abject failure of his AfD as "prototypical" of editorial behavior he has encountered is little more than acting as sheriff, judge, and jury. From my perspective, his immediate lumping me into his cabal of prototypical Eaastern European axe-grinders is proof that Gatoclass is all about preconceived stereotypes, in fact, seeking battle (when did you last read of an editor invoking petard hoisting?) against an editorial enemy he has already convicted--and not about reaching consensus on content. —PētersV (talk) 05:06, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

A typical content dispute... I personally believe that User:Gatoclass is fighting against a consensus of several good users who worked hard to create and improve this interesting article.Biophys (talk) 05:22, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I read through the links above, the talk page, and so on. Horlo's intro para, the first one, is bbetter than Irpen's. Irpen's second para ought to be incorporated into the lead as it now stands, which is solid and neutral. The talk page is Gatoclass VS a stack of editors who have provided sources, and tried to engage him. maybe I'm missing something ,but it reads to me like

• 'get me sources, cause i don't like or believe this'
• "well, here's these books, these speeches, and this stuff that supports us"
• 'no no, get me the sources I want'
• "Like what?"
• 'Well, like those books and sppeches and stuff, but saying hwat I want them to say'
• "Which is?"
• 'What I believed at the very beginning, stop challenging my preconcieved notions and agree with them.'
• "what can we do to change your mind?"
• 'get me sources, cause i don't like or believe this'

GOSUB line 20.

This is a content dispute that one person refuses to let go of, despite sources and consensus. Why? Don't know. b ut the race-baiting might be a clue. Gatoclass needs to find other articles to work on. ThuranX (talk) 05:33, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

In 1932-33 the Ukrainian ethnographic territory was divided up primarilly between Poland and the USSR. The Holodomor is the term that Ukrainian people use for the Great Famine of 1932-33 which took place on the Soviet side of Ukrainian Ethnic territory. Many Ukrainians who lived on the Soviet side of Ukrainian ethnographic territory died. Some say up to a quarter of the population. It was initially denied by Soviet authorities. Various journalist also made reports denying the Famine. Visiting dignitaries also made reports denying it. In 1983 the Ukrainian community in the diaspora made a concerted effort to bring public attention on this act. As a result the first secretary of the Communist Party in Ukraine acknowleged that the Famine happened in 1987. In circa 1991 the term Holodomor was introduced by a Ukrainian writer from Ukraine to specifically describe the great Famine of 1932-33 in Ukraine. In 2006 the Ukrainian parliament passed a law stating that the Holodomor was an act of Genocide and made it a criminal offence to publically deny its existence. many countries have also joined in labeling it an act of Genocide

The Holodomor and aspects related to it have been the subject of heated debate since 1932-33. During the course of history numerous people have denied that it took place. This article gives a concise list and references to the people, companies and organizations that made statements of denial of the Famine. Despite the Holodomor having been acknowleged by the Ukrainian government and many other governments, Books and materials written specifically to deny the existence of the Holodomor have continued to be published by organizations (up until 2002) and despite some being withdrawn from sale are available to download without explanation that they were withdrawn from sale or to the inaccuracies within them. These writings continue to be quoted in various disgusion groups. Early scholarship on this topic has been quite poor, with examples of incorrectly labeled photographs and poor access to source materials which initially hampered the subject and which continues to cause problems. There exist a small group of editors who are vehemently opposed to this topic for reasons that are not clearly explained, who continually obstruct the work of the editors of this article by the continuous placement of various labels, discussions not related to the topic and general rudeness. Bandurist (talk) 05:37, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

For 5 or 6 days now, Gatoclass has done nothing but attack the recently started article on Holodomor denial, which by the way was proposed for a DYK, before this relentless campaign against the article, and its editors was started by Gatoclass. (See here for more comments about the DYK nomination.) After all sorts of claims about the article, including that clearly sourced statements by Walter Duranty were only "alleged", and that using "denial" to refer to what Duranty, Fischer, and others did with respect to the Holodomor was "odious", Gatoclass took the article to AfD, where his nomination was soundly rejected by a vast majority (I'd say, near-unanimity). In the process, Gatoclass harassed many of the editors expressing opinions contrary to his, implying that their opposition to deletion was based on their supposed ethnic origin, stating:[67]

"Did I ever stop to ponder why so many disagreed with me? Sure I did. And in that regard I couldn't help but notice that all of the editors of the page apart from me appear to be of East European origin, with potential axes to grind against their former Soviet overlords. Just as this AFD is currently accumulating a host of "Keep" votes from Latvians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Hungarians and so on."

I personally was outraged by this. Several other editors expressed their dismay: [68],[69]. Gatoclass never apologized for these remarks, but only continued his campaign of tagging and random accusations, despite repeated attempts to come to an understanding, clear the air, and move to a more productive, dignified discussion -- most recently by PētersV. How much longer do we have to put up with this kind of attitude? Turgidson (talk) 06:14, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Turgidson purports to be "outraged" by the fact that an editor should suggest that someone's national or political loyalties might possibly influence their political viewpoint. That he should seek to twist such a banal and everyday observation into some kind of insult only demonstrates how desperate he is to find a weapon with which to attack me. For the record, I did not volunteer this comment - I am not normally in the habit of commenting on users at all, as it obviously isn't conducive to a co-operative atmosphere. The comment was made in response to Turgidson's own question regarding what I thought might be motivating my opponents, in which case I gave him a frank reply. (If someone solicits my opinion about an aspect of their behaviour and I oblige, am I to blame if they don't like the answer?). But if I'd realized then what a meal he would try to make of this passing comment, I might nevertheless have been more cautious in my response.

I can't help but wonder now whether his question was merely a means of setting me up in order to denounce me for my "prejudice". Either that, or he must be about the only editor left on Wikipedia who is yet to acknowledge the problems that nationalist POVs present to this project. And I suppose I may have been put somewhat offguard by my participation at the Arab-Israeli pages, where editors are openly referred to as "nationalists" and even "ultranationalists" with barely a murmur of protest. If I'd realized what a bunch of shrinking violets our East European editors were by comparison, I'm sure I would have been more circumspect. Gatoclass (talk) 07:37, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

My dear Gatoclass. You obviously have not stopped to consider that Baltic/Eastern European editors are well aware of what misperceptions still linger after 50 years behind the Iron Curtain. That means said editors make absolutely sure they have reputable sources before even starting on an edit because they know they will be challenged by those who hold onto misconceptions. You, however, see heritage merely as an affliction which apparently is so well-known to induce bias that to make note of it is "banal." And then "wonder" (accuse) whether Turgidson, among the most reputable editors I know, made you a victim of a setup? You need to work on adjuting your perspective of the Gatoclass-centric universe. Any other conspiracies you'd like to propose? —PētersV (talk) 17:30, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I note that some of my opponents have described this as a "content dispute" and I quite agree. That's why I tagged the article. These users are trying to present this article to the readership as issue-free when multiple users have raised serious questions about this article.

WP:NPOVD states the following:

Sometimes people have edit wars over the NPOV dispute tag, or have an extended debate about whether there is a NPOV dispute or not. In general, if you find yourself having an ongoing dispute about whether a dispute exists, there's a good chance one does, and you should therefore leave the NPOV tag up until there is a consensus that it should be removed...the tag should be removed only when there is a consensus among the editors that the NPOV disputes have indeed been resolved.

Just because the other editors who made the same complaints about the article as I did currently appear to be taking a Wikibreak, does not mean that "disputes have indeed been resolved" - clearly, they haven't. I am simply asking for some support from the community for what I regard as a fundamental policy - the right to tag an article which is in dispute. If there is no community support for even such a basic principle as this, what is to prevent a majority of likeminded users from totally controlling an article by sheer weight of numbers?

One more point - as usual there have been multiple attacks on my character in the responses above, falsely accusing me of "bad faith" (when a look at the talk page will reveal that it is I who have been subjected to a relentless stream of bad faith accusations), of "general rudeness" (when I have bent over backwards to remain civil), of having some sort of vendetta against East Europeans (I haven't made a substantial edit to a page involving Eastern Europe for eighteen months - take a look at my adversaries' contributions by way of comparison), and even, ludicrously, of "race-baiting" (Eastern Europeans are a race?). I'm afraid this has been the general tenor of "debate" on the article talk page from the outset. So when reading about my alleged breaches of good conduct, please take note of these ad hominem attacks and ask yourself which party is bent on personalizing this dispute. Gatoclass (talk) 06:50, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Like already pointed out to you several times, Gatoclass. Please feel free to follow WP:NPOV by adding any alternative takes in to the article according to any published sources of your liking. Misuse of tagging such as adding "totallydisputed" to the well referenced article is not going to be tolerated. Thanks for your understanding.--Termer (talk) 08:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

---

RE: Gatoclass And in that regard I couldn't help but notice that all of the editors of the page apart from me appear to be of East European origin, with potential axes to grind against their former Soviet overlords. Just as this AFD is currently accumulating a host of "Keep" votes from Latvians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Hungarians and so on."

Whoa, even if it was the case, which is not, everybody who has bothered to check out the userpages who have voted at the AFD can see that the alleged "East European origin" is a speculation at best and in fact there were editors involved who have clearly identified themselves as not of East European descent. But the point would be arguments like this shouldn't be used really on WP to support your opinions as far as I'm concerned. Regarding grind against their former Soviet overlords, that must be a joke since Soviet Union collapsed about 20 years ago if I'm not mistaken.--Termer (talk) 08:21, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Good work Termer, you guys just keep beating me over the head with the same comment I made several days ago after solicitation of my opinion by one of your own number. Don't forget to alternate it now and again with the "Hoist by your own petard" comment or people might get bored.

Update: User:TableManners restores the tag,[70], User:Biophys deletes it.[71]. Gatoclass (talk) 08:37, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Update: User:TableManners has not participated in article discussion, did not post a notice of their tag insertion, and so far have not responded to what, specifically, needs to be corrected. Total and complete contribution = reinsert tag with a "please" don't remove comment. Exactly how is this a constructive step toward consensus-building? Tagging with no further input? Whether or not it was what the editor intended, for all functional purposes, that's no better than WP:IDONTLIKEIT. —PētersV (talk) 17:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Update: User:Crotalus horridus retags and adds WP:OR tag instead of responding to where I indicated his conclusions were mistaken (for example, apparently one can't call Duranty a "Holodomor denier" even if he's a "famine denier" before the word Holodomor was widely adopted to refer to the famine). More tagging and pushing editorial viewpoints by editors who have apparently said all they have to say. Don't agree with them? Here come two tags. —PētersV (talk) 18:33, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Update: Consensus has been reached on a rename which User:Crotalus horridus et al. agree contributes to less room for misinterpretation which spilled over into and prompted his WP:OR concerns. —PētersV (talk) 19:25, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Gatoclass. And sure, unless I have missed something and you have apologized for supporting your opinions with commenting the possible ethnic background of your opponents instead of the content or referring to any published sources, always ready to help to remind you your mistake. that keeps at last you from repeating it I hope.--Termer (talk) 08:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
PS. How about my suggestion feel free to follow WP:NPOV by adding any alternative takes in to the article according to any published sources of your liking. you keep ignoring for some reason?--Termer (talk) 09:02, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not going to apologize for giving an opinion that I was asked to contribute. An opinion moreover that ought to be self-evident to anyone with a lick of sense. And I am certainly not going to apologize to people who in my opinion have been roughly an order of magnitude more uncivil than me.

I'm not asking for an apology and I don't need one, but if you want an apology from me, you folks will first have to apologize for the way you have pilloried me these last few days for happening to hold a contrary opinion. Gatoclass (talk) 09:22, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Since you keep ignoring my request for any alternative published sources that would be in conflict with the denial of the famine called holodomor [72] [73] [74]; to back your opinions or the tagging, please let me remind you that the rules are simple. Any material that is challenged and for which no source is provided may be removed by any editor according to Wikipedia:Citing sources. therefore feel free to ignore the request for alternative published sources and tag the article, until no source is provided to back up the opinionated tag, it's going to be removed by any editor. Thanks--Termer (talk) 09:29, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot to add a comment about that. My response as always is that this is not in my opinion a dispute that can be resolved with the addition of a few extra sources. It's a dispute about (a) the name, about whether or not "Holodomor denial" is an encyclopedic topic, and (b) if it is encyclopedic, where are the scholarly sources to validate that, and (c) if (a) and (b) are satisfied, is the current content truly reflective of the article name and if not, should we be adopting a different name that reflects the article content, or should we keep the name and dump the content? So you see it's not something that can be fixed just by adding more info to the article, it's a structural problem that really needs some planning on the talk page first IMO. Gatoclass (talk) 09:44, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

It is strange that you bring up issues over here that have been addressed on the talk page several times. whether or not "Holodomor denial" is an encyclopedic topic is pretty straight forward in case you have looked up one of the primary sources, it's an encyclopedia. But just in case, I'll just cite it once more: the famine is called holodomor ...Denial of the famine declined after the Communist Party lost power.... So in case you have any alternative encyclopedic perspectives on the subject, please do not hesitate to provide some published sources to back up your opinions. thanks!--Termer (talk) 09:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello, in reading over the debates and discussion, I see two separate issues: first, one of content; second, one of procedure. If I may, I would like to deal with them in order.

First, the issue of content. Very early in the existence of the article, a POV tag was added, with no appropriate discussion on the talk page. Therefore, I removed the tag. User:Irpen added another tag, stating that there were some questionable numbers in the lead. [75]. I removed the numbers, re-wrote the lead, and removed the tag. [76] There has been no issue with user:Irpen since that time. Every effort has been made to cite only verifiable - and non-offensive - sources, including changing citations, such as here: [77].

The second issue is one of procedure. An editor appears and applies tags without any discussion on the talk page or any attempt to improve the article. As discussed above, issues are dealt with in good faith. User:Gatoclass's issues are repeatedly addressed, for example here: [78] and here: [79] and here: [80].

One editor does not agree with a consensus. An AfD is initiated. This is understandable, especially considering user:Gatoclass's closing comments: it was an attempt to bring more people to the discussion, and that is a good thing. Unfortunately, even though that AfD seems to have ended on a positive note, a POV tag was added to the article immediately after the AfD was closed. This seems to have become personal to user:Gatoclass, and that is a bad thing. To me, this AnI appears to be arena-hunting.

What really offends me is dismissive statements such as "editors of the page apart from me appear to be of East European origin, with potential axes to grind against their former Soviet overlords". User:Gatoclass has no idea where I am from. I understand that such things may be written with no subliminal intent, but they do highlight the difficulties in writing articles about Eastern Europe, and possible biases towards the articles and editors.

Hopefully, now, a larger number of editors has been reached. Again, thank you to user:Gatoclass for bringing wider attention to this topic, and I look forward to any help in developing this article, Horlo (talk) 09:30, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

What really offends me is dismissive statements such as "editors of the page apart from me appear to be of East European origin, with potential axes to grind against their former Soviet overlords".

Good, thank you for reminding readers of my sole purported transgression once again, it's only two minutes ago since Termer reposted it and they may have forgotten already.

There has been no issue with user:Irpen since that time.

Irpen has been on Wikibreak since 28 December, along IIRC with some of the other editors who expressed objections.

An editor appears and applies tags without any discussion on the talk page

I have commented exhaustively on the talk page about my concerns. It is just extraordinary for you guys to keep making this absurd claim that I have not tried to initiate "discussion on the talk page". Unfortunately though, I have had next to no response to my requests for a genuine good faith discussion. Except, that is, for a barrage of bad faith assumptions and trumped up charges in regards to my character.

In any case, I don't think this is the place to discuss the parameters of the content dispute itself. I opened this discussion solely to try and establish the principle that a minority of good faith users in good standing has the right to expect that they can tag a page with a dispute template without having that template continually removed when it's clear that consensus is yet to be achieved. That's all, it's nothing complicated really. Gatoclass (talk) 10:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Surely "the minority" has the right to have their POV attached to any article as long as it's based on a published source. Since you have failed to provide any...I hope that I don't need to keep repeating it. Good night from LA--Termer (talk) 10:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

No Termer, it's not me who has failed to provide a scholarly source, it's you who has failed - to provide a scholarly source which proves that the very topic of your article, holodomor denial, is a precise concept that really has some recognition and a discernible meaning beyond the assumption you have made about what it must mean because you think it's self-evident. Or which proves that it isn't just a political slogan used to promote a particular version of history, ie that the holodomor was a genocide. And so on.

I don't have to provide a source Termer. The onus is on you to provide a scholarly source to prove that your topic is genuinely encyclopedic in some way and not just another political epithet designed to attack someone. Gatoclass (talk) 10:44, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

you don't have to provide a source? Then you shouldn't be surprised that your opinions are going to be ignored as you have ignored the sources provided in the article. --Termer (talk) 17:24, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I have to admit some confusion. Gatoclass is maintaining that Stalin suppressing news of the famine, denying the famine where the outside world was concerned, how that campaign was conducted, who assisted (Duranty), what the impact is on current perspectives is not a topic worth encyclopedic attention?
  As I just mentioned on the article talk page, it's silly for editors to contend Duranty hasn't been called a "Holodomor denier"--Holodomor has not been in popular use for that long. There are plenty of sources that discuss suppreession and denial. We can call it "Suppression of news of the Ukrainian famine and denial of its existence". Gatoclass doesn't like the topic, the title, or anything about it. Perhaps it's not the most constructive place to be contributing.
  I haven't "threatened" Gatoclass over anything, in fact it takes little effort to read the talk page to see where I suggest not invoking the "Digwuren" ruling, to give Gatoclass an opportunity to be more constructive. As for Gatoclass' calumnies over threats and personal attacks, no one has threatened or attacked him. I'm sorry for whatever editorial battles he has had elsewhere, but frankly I don't care. I have never dealt with Gatoclass before and I expect better than jumping to petard hoisting conclusions proving conspiracy and axe-grinding theories that exist only in his brain.
  I have no problem with negotiating through content disputes and have reach compromises with editors whom I agree not one whit, as long as we stick to sources. Therefore this is not a "content dispute". Gatoclass has attacked me but has not negotiated with me over one shred of content. (Except to note my alternate title using "suppression" not "denial" was "accusatory".) This is an editor, Gatoclass, deciding to conduct his activities along battle lines that are only in his mind and, in keeping with that plan, attacks reputable editors as adversaries instead of resources with whom he should be working to build consensus. —PētersV (talk) 17:59, 4 January 2008 (UTC) <- sometime earlier, accidentally deleted signature

[edit] Exit death spiral?

To Gatoclass: if you can admit that your (to you "banal", to your targets, "offensive") stereotyping of editors was a mistake, perhaps we might resume more constructive uses of our time and get back to article specifics on the talk page. A friendly word of advice--don't think that those who tag or otherwise disapprove of articles in the Baltic/Eastern European space are acting 100% in the defense of "NPOV" and not their own POV. I can't speak for the other editors, but since you appear to have come in on something that started before you and have not dealt with a number of the editors here before and have obviously acted based on misperceptions--I certainly haven't dealt with you before this, a small act of contrition on your part might allow us all to put this to bed and move on. —PētersV (talk) 17:56, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Meaning whether or not your opinion was solicited, that it stereotyped editors was a problem, not that you don't apologize for your opinion (whether or not it was solicited is immaterial). You're entitled to whatever opinion you like, but the rules are different if it's regarding editors with whom you are attempting to engage in discourse. —PētersV (talk) 18:05, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but I can't apologize for something I haven't done. I never accused anyone, specifically or even generally, of "axe grinding" in relation to this page. I merely noted - in response to the question put to me - that one could hardly fail to observe that editors from former Eastern bloc had potential "axes to grind" in relation to the USSR. Which is to say, I don't know whether or to what extent this apparent COI might be effecting someone's judgement, but that the potential is there for it to do so. Would anyone seriously want to dispute such a self-evident statement?

So hopefully now that I have offered this clarification, we can move on. Gatoclass (talk) 04:53, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

This would have been the appropriate response instead of your whole sorry petard I condemn myself with my own words affair, which I and I suspect others took as you confirming your low opinion of Eastern European editors. And now you're off demanding apologies genuinely feeling you owe none of your own. Your lack of sensitivity on the topic of Eastern European and focusing on items more of style than substance to me indicates you might want to do some serious reading first (real books written by acknowledged experts, not Wikipedia) before you're ready to contribute in this arena. —PētersV (talk) 22:26, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Taking your above response at face value, I should let you know that there has been a history of heavy pro-Soviet axe-grinding going on in Wikipedia which you are likely not aware of. For this reason, the Eastern European editor community that have survived and not given up in simple disgust, some of whom you've dealt with here, go out of their way to always insure that they have reputable sources. (Some opposition editors have contended they need no sources to back their obvious position.) Your response and combative followup with its assumptions of bad faith, wondering whether you were being set up, etc. were naive at best and, IMHO, merit an apology. —PētersV (talk) 22:59, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

---

So whats wrong with these now democratic nations telling their stories on WP, according to the published sources of their imprisonment by the totalitarian regime that was no different from Nazi Germany? Again, in case you do have any alternative POV-s you might support, like the conservative-communist-stalinist revisionism would fit well the pattern of ideas you have been representing, why don't you just add the POV to the article? Or doesn't the "denial of the Holodomor denial", the stalinist-soviet sympathizer ideology allow any room for alternative viewpoints like it was common practice also for the totalitarian regime, suppress the liberal and free thought and ideas? I'm not getting it, what exactly do you think you're going to accomplish here? Even though the article is currently about the denial of the famine, not about the denial of the famine as a genocide, sooner or later there are going to be more and more countries added to these 15 who have recognized holodomor as a genocide. The soviet union is in the histories garbage bin and there are free nations emerged who are free to express their POV on WP like any other party, including the conservative-communists who might hold, in your words "axe-grinding" against Easter Europe because they helped to end the prison state -communist-Soviet-empire. The WP:NPOV requires, in case there are conflicting perspectives, each should be presented fairly. So why do you hesitate adding the POV you support to the article instead keep trying to put the subject away by any means possible including listing it for deletion and bringing it here at the notice board?--Termer (talk) 06:30, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, at LEAST we've got Gatoclass' objection down. He doesn't believe there IS such a thign as the PHRASE 'holomodor denial'. are there any sources out there which use it? Link them here, and we can bring them to the article, and then we can address Gatoclass' bigoted 'you're all a cabal' racist attitudes. ThuranX (talk) 06:57, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

The question has been addressed several times including at this notice board [81] One of the primary sources in the article, the Encyclopedia of Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity has the following take on the subject the famine is called holodomor ...Denial of the famine declined after the Communist Party lost power... So incase the article needs to be renamed exactly according to the encyclopedia Denial of the famine called Holodomor , that would be fine by me in case Holodomor denial by itself would be too Easter European POV-ish. just that also the suggestion to rename according to the encyclopedia has been ignored and rejected--Termer (talk) 07:12, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Good enough for me, we don't need a ridiculously cumbersome title like that, one which plays foolish grammar games to appease Gatoclass' POV issues. Now we can get onto his bigoted statements. ThuranX (talk) 07:19, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I take exception to being referred to as a "bigot". You would be well advised to withdraw that fatuous remark. Editors have been banned from wikipedia for such breaches of WP:CIV. Gatoclass (talk) 07:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

As far as I can tell nobody has called you Gatoclass a "bigot" here. However I have to admit that I agree with ThuranX regarding your opinions and statements that you haven't even bothered to back up with any references or sources have been bigoted indeed.--Termer (talk) 08:45, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Gatoclass, you have not yet apologized for your skewed (kinder--one which you have not earned--version of bigoted) view of Eastern European editors, nor for acting on the basis of your gross assumptions of bad faith of that entire group of editors. Yet you get on your high horse and notify Termer you expect an apology. Sorry, your behavior here continues to be one of your demonstrated self-perceived superiority over editors of Eastern European heritage, your demand for an apology clearly indicating that you don't treat editors of Eastern European heritage with the same level of respect with which you expect them to treat you. You are clearly clueless as to how egregious your behavior has been. Despite your return to the article's talk page, perhaps you're not ready to exit the death spiral after all. Termer is a motivated, reputable editor, but someone who will not stand for insults. You might want to consider the basis in your behavior for Termer's words above and alter your conduct instead of continuing to escalate along the same line of self-righteous assumptions of bad faith on the part of other editors and now accusations of incivility. —PētersV (talk) 16:30, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

For all it's worth, here is the latest sourced added to the article: Lubomyr Luciuk, Searching for place: Ukrainian displaced persons, Canada, and the migration of memory, Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 2000, p. 413. ISBN 0802042457. Here is a quote from the book: "For a particularly base example of famine-denial literature, see Tottle, Fraud, famine, and fascism: the Ukrainian genocide myth from Hitler to Harvard." And this is just one of the many examples in the article, but it sort of gives the gist of it. I mean, when you have a guy publishing a book with a title like this, and various other authors quoting him approvingly (including at least one academic, and a bunch of guys at the Stalin Society), well, that pretty much establishes that the phenomenon of denying the Holodomor is still alive and kicking (of course, it was very significant and widespread in the 1930s). This, plus all the (denial-of-famine-related) Pulitzer Prize controversy around Duranty and the NYT, and the current intense debate (and legislative action) in Ukraine establishes the notability of the subject, and the validity of the title (in whatever variation it will settle on), pretty much beyond a doubt, I submit. Turgidson (talk) 07:41, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I've renamed the article per article talk to Denial of the Holodomor to make it easier to tell apart from "Holodomor denial" used to refer to denial of the Holodomor as genocide. —PētersV (talk) 02:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I would just like to commend the users who have built up this first rate article from nothing, in the face of abuse and insinutaion, mockery and obfuscation. That you have conducted yourself so well in the face of this onslaught despite the fact the enslish is not your first language it to be commended highly. Lobojo (talk) 10:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unprotection

I don't think this debate is achieving much, and as pointed out above the page being protected prevents it from being improved. What do folks think about unprotecting it? --kingboyk (talk) 17:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

• Unprotect. The protection is preventing this article from being improved by impartial editors. The dispute should be discussed on the article's talk page, with neither party editing this article further until they can come to a compromise. Seraphim ^Whipp 18:43, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I have boldly unprotected the article, since it's at AfD. There's a chance folks there can improve it to such a level as to prevent deletion, and I wish to support that opportunity. - Philippe | Talk 18:51, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jon Awbrey Meta*SockPuppet

Mrs. Lovett's Meat Puppets (talk · contribs) - blanking the Jon Awbrey articles per the request at WR. Corvus cornix_talk 04:52, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

You may want to request checkuser to identify any other socks in the same drawer. Jehochman ^Talk 04:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Why would I want to do that? I have no idea what other users may be the same people. Their edits are specific enough to make it obvious. Corvus cornix_talk 05:00, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Because checkuser can identify sleeper accounts that the banned/blocked user might use when the accounts they are currently using are exposed. -MBK₀₀₄ 22:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Their edits are specific enough to make it obvious on WikiPedia, but if you would do some forensic analysis of their behavior correlating to their activities off WikiPedia, you may find an interesting connection that may shed light on an issue at hand. But do not get involved in such actions unless it is absolutely necessary. And if you do, you may want to ask assistance of an experienced Wikipedia SA. Igor Berger (talk) 23:00, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Igor, the last time I requested CheckUser on an Awbrey sock, it turned up a number of sleepers that had not yet been blocked. Awbrey has to use sleepers to overcome the autoconfirm limit as these articles are semiprotected. Guy (Help!) 08:11, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

See my user contribs. I think you all will be pleasantly surprised :) Raul654 (talk) 14:10, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User:Dark Sunshine

[edit] User:Isimsizzorbebe

Personally attacking another user[82]. Warning is probably warranted. VartanM (talk) 00:23, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

So warn him. OK, I've done it for you.--Doc^g 00:29, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm another Armenian user, if I warn him, it will only flame the situation. VartanM (talk) 00:39, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Understandable. In the future, Vartan, you might want to mention that right away. Otherwise it seems kind of odd why you don't warn the user yourself. Natalie (talk) 00:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Natalie, I'll keep that in mind. VartanM (talk) 01:01, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Naomi Almeida

Can someone help please. I have been trying (see edit summary on article) to make a 3rd nomination for deletion on this article based on WP:N and WP:MEMORIAL, but I do not know how and don't want to make more of a mess.

Thanks, Yellow-bellied sapsucker (talk) 01:18, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

You may want to consider using some wikitools, such as Twinkle, to help you out with the AfD nominations. Twinkle can automate the process and add all the appropriate notices to the relevant pages and users. I know there are other wikitools out there, like AutoWikiBrowser, but I don't use those some I'm not sure what functionality they have. If you're contributing a lot, you might want to peruse through the tools pages and see if you find something you like. Gromlakh (talk) 01:56, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User:Lilgunner94 Reverting talk page.

This user seems to be engaging in an edit war with myself over his user talk page. He has reverted my additions to his talk page and has deleted everyone else's comments on his talk page by blanking the page. It seems to me that this user is offended by items on his talk page, that or he has something to hide. Milonica (talk) 01:32, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Users are given some latitude in managing their talk pages. Note also that the act of blanking a message (such as a warning) is construed as acknowledging that they have read it. I see you've restored blanked content and have told the user not to blank their talk page. Please refrain from doing those things again. (I do think that habitual blanking is a little bit rude, but that's irrelevant here.) Raymond Arritt (talk) 01:39, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Milonica - Per Wikipedia: Talk page guidelines, users are generally allowed to remove content from their own talk pages, contrary to popular belief;

On your own user talk page, you may remove comments from others, although archiving is generally preferred and removing comments without any reason is generally regarded as uncivil. The text of another user's comment, however, may never be directly edited to misrepresent the person or change the meaning of the comment.

Again, this may come across as uncivil, but it's not against the "rules". Edit Centric (talk) 01:40, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

(after edit conflict with User:Edit Centric)Yes, I left a message regarding this on Milonica's talk page. While it is not a policy I personally agree with in every respect, users are allowed to blank their talk pages. I don't agree with it as it means that old warnings are often missed - in Lilgunner94's case, he was given a warning for an unacceptable edit summary, even though the user had a history of attacks in the past. Regardless, blanking user talk pages (or even removing certain comments) is allowed, so I tend towards reverting it when I see a user revert a blanking. Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 01:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I understand that now, after reading the talk page guidelines. The only reason I brought this issue up was that I noticed a current issue on his talk page that had been deleted and it looked suspicious to me, thats all. Thanks for the info. This case can be considered closed. Milonica (talk) 01:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dihydrogen Monoxide banner war

[edit] Chris Frangou - sockpuppetry

Chris funk bass (talk · contribs) created Chris Frangou, John Smith Quintet and Global Frontier, all nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chris Frangou. A series of new editors; Pe34-sick (talk · contribs), 777metalaussie (talk · contribs) and 116.240.180.179 (talk · contribs) are all showing up in support of the articles on the talk page. They have steered away from the AfD discussion at this stage, but I suspect they will find it soon. Assistance in keeping an eye on them would be appreciated. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 07:48, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

add Hellowe (talk · contribs) to the list! -- Mattinbgn\^talk 07:52, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Issue with userbox

[edit] Special Case

[edit] User:Polysynaptic getting out of hand

User Polysynaptic (talk · contribs) has been engaging in a string of inappropriate point-of-view edits, including erasing well-sourced references to Persian culture from articles related to Turkic topics, and conflating the distinct notions of "Turkish people" with "Turkic peoples". His responses to criticism do not suggest he is amenable to reason. It will require a substantial effort to repair the damage he is doing; it is doubtful that even a single dedicated editor could keep up. As evidence that this user is out of control: he has now nominated the well-sourced article Persianate society for deletion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Persianate society. He has also created an alternative article (Abu ar-Rayhan Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Biruni) to the well-sourced article Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī. This is highly disruptive editing, damaging to the project, and I hope something can be done about this. (See also Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive349#Informed of possible sockpuppet, but I feel the issue should be dealt with in any case, sockpuppetry or not.)  --Lambiam 12:35, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I closed the AFD, but I need someone else to look into the user's actions. --Coredesat 15:12, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

This looks very much like another installment of the endless saga of our old friends User:Tajik (ip 82.*) and his nemesis de:Benutzer:Westthrakientürke (ip. 85.*), each with a new sock daily. Just block everybody in sight. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Just a clueless question - if Westthrakientürke engages in disruptive sockpuppetry, why is the account he claims belongs to him on this Wikipedia, Moorudd (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log), not blocked? Sandstein (talk) 23:55, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I don't think he has ever been investigated overly much here. He's just forever engaged in a series of vicious disputes with his favourite enemy, mostly editing through IPs. But one IP from his known range (85.176.73.68 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • WHOIS • RDNS • trace • RBLs • http • block user • block log)) was blocked immediately before Polysynaptic was created, so the suspicion of abusive sockpuppetry this time is pretty strong. Fut.Perf. ☼ 00:10, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Unless User:Polysynaptic is lying about his identity, he is a student from Turkey studying in Ankara, whereas Westthrakientürke is from Greece, and 85.178.*.* has the northern German HanseNet as IP. Polysynaptic is Muslim and opposed to Turkish secularism (see his article Criticism of kemalism), something not found with Westthrakientürke or 85.178.*.*'s edits. Poly's command of English is also definitely inferior to that of 85.178.*.*. In spite of the temporal coincidence, I think these are different individuals.  --Lambiam 15:54, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Wait a moment, not quite. Westthrakientürke may have a background from Greece (West Thracia), as his name implies, but he is known to be in Germany, and that German HanseNet IP range is definitely his (self-confirmed on de here: [86]). (There has been another, much more disruptive, Turkish user whose IP range also typically starts with 85.*, but is located in Ankara.) - I'll accept your judgment though if you say you find WTT's editing profile to be different from Polysynaptic's. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:21, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I was not implying that de:Benutzer:Westthrakientürke ≠ 85.178.*.*, but only that this German constellation is likely not the same individual as User:Polysynaptic. This seems unrelated to 85.100.*.* and friends, who are more focussed on Cyprus issues.  --Lambiam 21:00, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User:Bluemarine/User:Mattsanchez again

Edit: See edit. "Sounds like B** is stretching to write a novel and not edit a encyclopedic entry. Matt Sanchez (talk) 15:58, 5 January 2008 (UTC)"

This user has gotten repeated "final" warnings for incivility and abuse, and even appears to be freely violating COI by editing an article about themselves *extensively*; see here. This was just brought up earlier this week, and the user was blocked for attacks and incivility. Would someone be willing to give him another final warning?

Previous ANI thread from January 2 is here, where it was disclosed this user has also harassed and made disparaging comments and tone towards homosexual editors working on pages related to him, which seems to be a violation of discrimination policies and concerns. Lawrence Cohen 16:05, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Previous RFC on user is here. Lawrence Cohen 16:17, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I have removed the WP:AIV report on this user pending the outcome of the discussion here. Caknuck (talk) 16:17, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

• See 5 sections above where there is already a discussion going on about this user. -- ALLSTARecho 16:23, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Another thread here on Matt Sanchez, same problems. That is three threads initiated by three people in almost zero time. Lawrence Cohen 17:10, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

• Note: Both users have been indefinitely blocked. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 22:10, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

An arb case is about to be opened on this at WP:RFAR — Rlevse • Talk • 21:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User:81.153.131.222

Continues ad hominem incivilities despite two warnings.

• First warning: [87]
• Second warning: [88]
• Continuation: [89][90]

Disruptive editing (repeated blanking of a section) on Dana Ullman. [91] Guido den Broeder (talk) 16:21, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

While calling another editor a troll is almost never appropriate, I don't believe the behavior has escalated to a level that requires administrator attention. I have left a note on the IP's talk page regarding the most recent instance.

As far as the underlying content dispute which has everyone so worked up, please see the various options available at WP:Dispute resolution. — Satori Son 20:33, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, hopefully this will be sufficient. I'm not involved in any content dispute though. Guido den Broeder (talk) 21:29, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Looking over the very heated discussions at Talk:Homeopathy, that is exactly what you are heavily involved in. Seriously, please consider WP:DR if it continues. — Satori Son 01:58, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

If you find the alleged content dispute, let me know. Guido den Broeder (talk) 19:48, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disruptive actions of User:Smsarmad

I would like seek advice on administrators regarding two checkuser cases. This is the first case which I filled against a vandal sock puppet which was also confirmed. The master puppet was blocked for 7 days as a result and all other accounts blocked permanently. After returning from the block, User:Smsarmad filled a checkuser against me here. In his case he claims that the anon IPs 66.206.x.x, 203.135.46.x and 202.83.161.x belong to me, while I would like to state that these IPs belong to our college. Since the IPs are shared by every student, that would limit the checkuser's capabilities to accurately identify sock puppets. What I am trying to say is that, since we both use Wikipedia from the University, (and a lot of other students) checkuser would identify all of them as one user. Thats why I request to handle this case out of checkuser.

I would also like to state (in all good faith) that Smsarmad has a history of vandalism, trolling, sock puppetry, and harassment. While I have thankfully been a clean contributer to Wikipedia, as can be seen from my contributions and projects I am working on. So please help me on this one and tell me what to do. Thanks. UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 18:41, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Checkuser will be able to tell specifically what usernames are used from that IP (they will know ALL of them). - Rjd0060 (talk) 04:31, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the problem is, they both go to the same school and work from the same pool of IPs. But even then, checkuser can tell browser information, OS information, and I would go out on a limb and assume that you have some kind of unique ID cookie that they can read too that uniquely identifies your computer even when you log out. If the checkuser has said they are both socking and vandalizing while logged out, I'd bet there's a pretty good chance of it. --B (talk) 04:36, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree about that checkuser can even identify PCs. But then again the PCs are in Labs which are used by everyone. I am sure, checkuser would find a lot of other users using the same PCs. Would that imply that all are sock puppets? UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 04:53, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you guys only edit from communal PCs or do you have your own machine in your residence hall room? --B (talk) 05:04, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Also the case filed by Smsarmad is based on assumptions without any actual proof. While he was proved to be a SP with reference to diffs, which linked to vandalism by his primary account. I have been an editor here for almost an year now, and have mostly been active in Dragonball related topics. I have even set up the Portal:Dragon Ball. Why would I need to attack a user? I am still willing to WP:AGF with his future contribs to wikipedia, and I am also open to a dispute resolution if he has any. I would welcome any administrator or other user to clerk the process, as I believe that all disputes should be settled in a civil manner. UzEE (Talk • Contribs) 05:06, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Well User:UzEE is trying to falsify the facts! Its true that we study at the same institute but when this vandalism was done at these user pages(User:UzEE, Sarmad) our university was closed for about a week long holidays. And User:UzEE was at his home at that time. Sarmad (talk) 05:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Static IP vandal 83.100.160.154 (again)

83.100.160.154 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)

2 more instances today the same as before. Also uses dynamic IP's -
87.102.87.199 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)

87.102.42.143 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)

87.102.13.173 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)

Previous no action report - Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive348#Static_IP_vandalism -- John (Daytona2 · Talk · Contribs) 20:58, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Please help monitor Adam Yahiye Gadahn‎

Thileepanmathivanan (talk · contribs) and 99.237.253.131 (talk · contribs), presumably the same person, continue to remove well-referenced information from the article Adam Yahiye Gadahn‎, replacing it with his/her/their own views (e.g. "I am a user from Pakistan. and never heard about Adam Pearlman in Pakistan nor Al-Qaeda"). Part of the edits constitutes a content dispute, part of it constitutes blatant vandalism (such as the accusation that Gadahn has molested goats. Please help monitor this article. Aecis^Brievenbus 22:13, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

• Could an uninvolved admin either protect the article or block the IP? Semi-protection won't work, because the account Thileepanmathivanan was created more than 4 days ago. Aecis^Brievenbus 22:53, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User using user page to attack other editors

This looks unacceptable to me. I reverted and am posting here for further guidance. Thanks, SqueakBox 00:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Using that template in hidden text isn't great. I've asked the user to explain. You might have tried that, rather than jumping here. A little less dramatic?--Doc^g 00:26, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Answered. Oh, and Doc, trying that rather than jumping here would have required Squeak to act in good faith and maybe even admit to following my edits around. The former he has demonstrated a refusal to do, the latter he has absolutely proven he is doing. (We won't even get into his article ownership issues... I learned of those the hard way and eventually left it alone; maybe I should have come here instead, but it wasn't worth it.) Thanks, Doc, for asking and I would appreciate any suggestion/template you may have. VigilancePrime (talk) 00:42, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Asking the user to explain and/or discuss is always a good idea, but I don't think removing the templates was necessarily wrong. When people post inappropriate things in their user space, it's not always necessary to ask them before removing, regardless of whether the content in their user space is good faith or not. Some examples I can think of are main space categories (which often show up in user space sandboxes, and occasionally on user pages) and fair use images, which regularly show up on user pages. With this particular content, I don't think it would have been necessary to immediately remove it (as it is for fair use image, for example), but at the same time I don't necessarily think it was inappropriate to just remove it. However, opening a discussion on the user talk page would be a good idea, or perhaps asking someone else to open that discussion given the directed nature of the content. Natalie (talk) 00:46, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

VigilancePrime, it seems from your comments that you've had conflict with SqueakBox before, but I guess I'd suggest that referring to other user's as vandals when they have not been vandalizing is maybe not the best way to handle problems. There are a variety of dispute resolution processes that you might find helpful. Natalie (talk) 00:48, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Dealt with on talk page. I have accepted VigilancePrime's explanation. Assuming good faith there is no intention to attack here, just using a template (in hidden text) for convenience. Case closed.--Doc^g 00:50, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you all (except Squeak) for your help (Squeak didn't help, only hinder). I appreciate the assistance and new knowledge (another template). Any other thoughts can be made on my User Page; I always appreciate new and improved templates, methods, and information! VigilancePrime (talk) 00:58, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Its not resolved at all. He now had my name on his user page with an accusation of stalking against me[92]. His user page is nott here for him to launch personal attacks against me. I notice he has made the same bad faith stalking accusation against me here, of course I was not stalking his edits, I have his talk page on my watchlist. And Doc, when people use theior user page to launch bad faith attacks on other users, this is the place top bring that, it is not dramataic at all. And this can be easily resolved by Vigilance not naming me on his talk page01:59, 7 January 2008 (UTC). Thanks, SqueakBox

[edit] Stalking and Harrassment

Can someone please stop SqueakBox from constantly changing my userpage? There is nothing attacking (and I even make comments that explicitly state no attack, IAW Doc's recommendation). I am tired of having to keep reverting my own User page back to normal. It's bad faith on his part. Why would he have my Userpage watchlisted anyway? Why come here instead of working with me? Why expect me to work with him here even (which I am trying to do regardless) when he has deo=monstrated a vehement refusal to work with me on actual articles? Should I template him for these abusive actions? All I want is to be able to continue contributing to Wikipedia without having to look over my shoulder for Squeak's constant intrusion and personal vendetta. Any help would be appreciated. VigilancePrime (talk) 02:07, 7 January 2008 (UTC) (Sorry it had to come bother you all, but I'm not the one who escalated it, by any means.)

Having a list of admins and other editors under the section "What were they thinking?" and so closely positioned to an essay on Admin Abuse is rather inflamatory, if not an attack, hidden or not. Why have it unless you feel the need to track their contributions? Pairadox (talk) 03:46, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

VP, I strongly suggest you not put lists of people who "POV push" or "stalk" or whatever on your user page. It's just polite not to. It's bad form. It's a really bad idea. It accomplishes nothing except to draw negative attention to you. In almost 4 years on the project I've seen this again and again, and it always ends badly: see Number 48. I'm just making a suggestion here; consider it a peace offering, and an act of good will, and please remove the names. Thank you, Antandrus (talk) 03:58, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

This user is going to be rfc'd if he doesn't remove his obnoxious persoanl attacks by the morning as if no admin hasd tyher courage to block this case will go to arbcom. Nobody should have to put up with these kind of idiotic persoinal attacks. Thanks, SqueakBox 04:25, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• Legitimate concerns, admins; allow me to allay them.
  • Firstly, please look into VP:AA before jumping to conclusions about it. It is a page, an essay, that seeks to critique three things: BAD Admin judgements, GREAT Admin judgements, and the Abuses suffered BY Admins (like when sockpuppets start harrassing you). It survived an MfD through unanimous comments to keep (and it was also renamed/redirected).
  • Sometimes I may look at a particular user's edit history, especially when a contention is on an article I unwatchlisted (I try to keep my list short) and occasional checkbacks. At the time, though, I'm only working on coming up with a format that may or may not work and may or may not ever "go live".
  • If this user were not watching every move on my User page, nobody would see this so-called list to begin with; that's why it's commented-out, so it isn't visible (and that it is non-functional thus far).
  • Finally, I have been directly called a "lout", had a request to page-protect my own user page (something I should have requested!), and continued reverts to my userpage that make no apparent change but remove self-notes. I am just sick and tired of this constant assault on me, my userpage, and my edits.
  • Additionally, above, this same user is apparently threatening you admins. I've worked with all you and incorporated many suggestions (Doc's reccomendation to add a preface comment, Kesac's template change).
• I don't know what else could be needed to prove my Good Faith. This is becoming about principle more than anything else, with me fighting to remain collaborative and free to edit and Squeak fighting to exert control and power over not only me and my userpage, but the admins who have been helping as well. VigilancePrime (talk) 05:06, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

  The vandal template is only for vandals so using it means that you are labelling the user as a vandal. For non admins try {{userlinks}} and for admins try {{admin}}. The options you get are more useful for checking activity anyway. Spartaz ^Humbug! 06:59, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

That's exactly what I did (changing templates) when that issue was brought up to me. The most visious and blatant personal attacks and harrassment came after I made those changes. All seems quiet for now... VigilancePrime (talk) 07:04, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

User:VigilancePrime Stalking and harassment? What is that? Igor Berger (talk) 07:35, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WB/UPN Intrastate Template Deletion resulting in inadvertent CW Intrastate Templates deletion

A group of since-confirmed "clean-up" sockpuppets brought up a discussion on TfD on December 25 about deleting the intrastate templates used in articles relating to affiliates of the now-defunct UPN and WB networks. Even if the deletion was suspicious, the vote went to deleting all the templates since they were hardly being used in any articles now and cleanup would have ensued eventually, since The CW network took over many of those station affiliations and CW state templates were added to every CW affiliate station article after its September 2006 launch.

However a side effect of the deletion going through was that unknowingly, all of the WB and UPN intrastate templates were redirected by the cleanup sockpuppets to those of the CW intrastate templates, which weren't under any discussion at all. Because they were RD'ed, most of the intrastate CW templates were then deleted accidently, leaving only ten remaining according to Category:Intrastate CW Templates. I do not contest the WB/UPN deletions (I voted yes within the discussion), but would like the other 40 or so CW templates restored as soon as possible. WP:TVS, of which I'm a member of is concerned about it, and I mean no harm in bringing this up; I suspect the deleting admin at the end of discussion didn't even know about the redirects to CW templates, but since this affects at least around 150 pages, needs to be rectified. Thank you. Nate · (chatter) 02:17, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User:The Noosphere

Posted for review: I've tagged and blocked The Noosphere (talk · contribs) as a sock of banned Cognition (talk · contribs). The accounts edit the same articles, have the same userboxes, edit from the same POV, and both accounts can be seen to be editing from the same geographic area. Noosphere has been editing disruptively in pushing his POV, as did Cognition. I haven't been involved in any of those disputes, though I was involved in disputes with Cognition prior to his banning in May 2006. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

If you have serious concerns, why not log a Checkuser? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:05, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

For some context see Raul's talk page. I don't think that checkuser would work given the stale nature of Cognitions account. Am I correct in that assumption? Woody (talk) 19:09, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, your assumption is correct. Raul654 (talk) 19:11, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, but since current account has been blocked and there seems to be considerable evidence of sockpuppetry (past or otherwise) it may still be wise to log a checkuser on The Noosphere (talk · contribs) to ensure no additional accounts are being used. But your call. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:13, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Cognition last edited (under that account) in May 2006, so checkuser wouldn't be helpful. Several editors working with The Noosphere have already identified him as a probable sock of an unknown master. Since I was familiar with Cognition it was obvious to me who the puppet master is. I agree that an RfCU to check for other socks is a good idea. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

There are no socks detectable from that account -- I ran checkuser on it 2 days ago and turned up nothing. Raul654 (talk) 19:28, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

(ec)I encountered The Noosphere a few days ago on the Robert Mugabe article. I was surprised to see a new contributor turn up and be immediately so familiar with Wikipedia policies and start pushing opinions on a lot of different articles. I checked a few article histories but couldn't come to any conclusions about who he might be a sock puppet of though. • Anakin ^{(contribs • complaints)} 19:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Just to pick out one area of similarity, both accounts added "drug-free" and "Platonist" userboxes [93][94] (which Cognition created) and both had photos of Martin Luther King on their user pages. There are other signs as well. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:34, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

At the risk of blaboring the obvious, compare the meanings of the terms "cognition" and "noosphere." Raymond Arritt (talk) 19:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, before Cognition created that username he probably edited as The Power of Reason, The Power of Human Reason, and El Poder de la Razón. There seems to be a theme. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Just noticed my mistake below, someone might want to check the other slightly similar account. R. Baley (talk) 08:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Despite the coincidence of names, user:Noosphere appears to be entirely unrelated to this matter. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 08:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Then it's best if I make one more edit then. . .R. Baley (talk) 09:16, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] For the record

I (edited to add R. Baley (talk) ) was working on this to bring to ANI, so I'll just post here, since the problem is already in the process of being resolved.

• {{userlinks|Noosphere}} (oops, no need to link. R. Baley (talk)) The Noosphere (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) account created: "05:57, 1 January 2008 The Noosphere (Talk | contribs) New user account" link
  
• On "day 2" of his wiki-experience, he/she pipes links in an edit summary diff in a wiki-move that removes criticism from Rafael_Correa and forks it over to a seperate and newly created page.
  
• Jan 5, Merlinme asks politely "who are you?" diff. Noosphere replies with evasive non-answer, "Your allegations that I have had a previous account are hurtful and poison the cooperative spirt of a community-built encyclopedia. It is not suspicious. . ." and later deletes the question again from his talk page (on Jan 6, removal of 2nd ? from Mme)
  

• This user does seem to show a remarkable knowledge of WP policies/procedures for a newbie and is editing with fervor and frequency that are unusual for a new editor. I'd find it hard to believe that he is in fact a new user. It's worth noting in your example above that he was asked more than "who are you?" He was directly accused of having a previous account and he provided a Clinton-esque denial. Oren0 (talk) 20:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Warnings left at Noosphere's talk page:

on Jan 1 by TES

on Jan 2 by WB

on Jan 4 by RA

on Jan 5 by RA

on Jan 6 by R6

on Jan 6 by WMC

That was as far as I got. . . R. Baley (talk) 19:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TfD page not updating

The bot which used to update the TfD page is no longer working. For some reason, Zorglbot no longer updates the TfD page like it used to. Could someone who owns a bot that is authorized to do this sort of thing please fix this? Thanks. RyanGerbil10(Говорить!) 00:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Reposting. This still needs to be fixed. RyanGerbil10(Говорить!) 00:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Schutz has said that it will be back up by Monday at the latest - just hang in there! east.718 at 00:59, January 7, 2008

Ok, cool. RyanGerbil10(Говорить!) 01:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User:Leftcoastbreakdown and American Apparel

I previously reported this user on 26 November for his POV edits to American Apparel and Dov Charney (CEO of AA) after identifying himself as the "web communications coordinator" for American Apparel. User was warned against making any edits (POV or otherwise) to American Apparel or Dov Charney and the case was marked as resolved. This account has recently began making further POV edits to that article to promote his company's stance on immigration. This indicates that this account will continue to be used for POV edits to American Apparel, is a single purpose account and a gross violation of WP:COI and should therefore be blocked. Thank you. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 01:02, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

(Disinterested third-party observation) All I can see from the diff is that the user changed the source citation from an outside to an inside source of the same jpg image. Hardly a POV edit. Edit Centric (talk) 01:21, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• The image was added to promote American Apparel's position on immigration. Considering this account's past edits to Dov Charney and American Apparel, it is not hard to understand why they would that. As an account belonging to somebody who is paid to promote American Apparel on the internet, it would be difficult to argue that it will be used to anything other than that purpose. Their continued edits to American Apparel even after being warned reduces their credibility in this regard even further. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 01:35, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• Uh, but the two images are the same -- User:Leftcoastbreakdown replaced the link to the version of the image on the American Apparel site with an identical Wikipedia-uploaded version of the ad. That was his or her only edit to American Apparel since being warned about conflict of interest on 26 November. A singular edit, not "continued edits". You, uh, reverted that essentially null edit, replacing the image uploaded by Leftcoastbreakdown with the original identical copy. What was the point of that reversion? Where is the POV pushing by Lcb? -- ArglebargleIV (talk) 02:05, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• It demonstrates that this account will defy WP:COI rules and the requests of other editors to continue making edits to an article which he is paid money to insert a bias into. The fact that he uploaded that image isn't the most egregious violation being discussed here, but instead it only serves to demonstrate this user will not follow protocol on this issue. This is also a single purpose account and has only made edits to articles which he is paid to contribute to. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 02:08, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• Since 26 November, when he was warned, what violations of COI has he committed? There was already a link to the ad in the article, going to the company's website. He uploaded the image, and replaced the link to the company's site with a link to the uploaded identical image. He essentially made a null edit. Where is the COI violation? What bias has he introduced to the article since he was warned about conflict of interest on 26 November? Since you mentioned "egregious violation" -- what other violations has he committed since he was warned? Yeah, he appears to be a single-purpose account -- but since he was warned, what has he done wrong? -- ArglebargleIV (talk) 02:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• He is being paid to promote his company on Wikipedia. His continued edits to the article demonstrate that he will continue to do so. Please read WP:COI for more information on what a conflict of interest is. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 03:04, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• I did, and I have. Please don't assume that those who disagree with you are ignorant.
  Let's take a key sentence from the introduction : "COI editing involves contributing to Wikipedia in order to promote your own interests or those of other individuals, companies, or groups." How does replacing an external with an internal link promote AA's interests? If he had added the link, I can see that, but he didn't. Looking at the rest of the guideline, I don't see the pattern of violations (or any violations) of COI since 26 November. Possibly a case could be made that he has committed a small technical violation -- but if so, I think that it (in the words of the banner at the top of WP:COI), "should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception."
  Any further edits that he makes, especially those against WP:COI, I'll be with you asking for correction. But, in my judgment, he hasn't broken the rules since the 26 November warning. I'm not an admin, and it's going to be administrators's judgments that count here, of course, but I don't think that now is the time for the hammer to fall. -- ArglebargleIV (talk) 03:31, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
• And for now, since I really didn't want to visit the argument clinic tonight, unless an authoritative voice chimes into this discussion, I think I'm done here -- the back and forth argument is generating more heat than light, at least on my side of the screen. I am curious about the outcome of this, and will watch closely, though. -- ArglebargleIV (talk) 03:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• Well, considering that he's already admitted to being paid for his edits to that article, I don't know if there is any way it couldn't be seen as a conflict of interest. Instead of focusing on this most recent edit, it might be helpful to you to take in the broader perspective and consider that this man is being paid to edit this Wikipedia article to insert a bias and has demonstrated that he will continue to do so. I can keep repeating myself about this or we can all finally agree that this represents an irreconcilable conflict of interest. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 03:44, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

It appears (at least to the naked eye) that the reference to the image was added previously to this, as a source citation, by an unregistered IP editor. (See diff here.) After this, the editor in question uploaded the image to Wiki. I've compared the two, no difference. It's the same image. As far as I can tell, all that User:Leftcoastbreakdown did was to change the reference tag to point to the internal copy of the image. This, in and of its self, does not constitute a POV edit, this would instead be a WP:V and WP:RS issue, based on the location of the image, maybe. But definitely not a POV edit. Edit Centric (talk) 02:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• Could you read the topic first before you spend any more time belaboring the issue over the image. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 02:16, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• I'm supposing that the issue of the image is being belabored here because it's the only thing the account has done since being warned about COI. I know I'm sounding like a broken record here, but where's the additional violation? -- ArglebargleIV (talk) 02:24, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not seeing a violation of WP:COI in these edits. I have no doubt such an account could, and apparently, already has violated COI, but given that post-warning, there's nothing but this tiny set of edits, I think the warnings worked. This falls under the common sense clause of COI. Leave it be. This is not a problem to me. Your arguments here seem to border on something more than a simple concern, like you're out to get the editor. I think this is done, as multiple editors don't see it the way you do. ThuranX (talk) 03:50, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

(unindent). One thing we should resolve is a difference between me and Cumulus Clouds regarding what Leftcoastbreakdown is free to do. If you look at Talk:American Apparel and User talk:Leftcoastbreakdown you'll see Cumulus Clouds claiming that Leftcoastbreakdown should have been blocked in the first place in November, should be blocked now for having tried to replace one link with a different link to an identical image, and in any event should be prohibited from any further editing of the American Apparel-related articles because they cannot be trusted. I note that AA was warned a single time over the incidents in November, immediately stopped and has not engaged in any further improper edits since the warning, and per WP:COI is free to make edits that do not raise POV concerns. I think we're giving Leftcoastbreakdown mixed signals and that my position is the accurate reflection of the COI guideline. Whatever their past sins editors, even single purpose editors hired as communications directors, are free to continue editing as long as they follow COI. COI does not prohibit conflicts of interest; rather, it informs people what they may do if there is a conflict. Wikidemo (talk) 09:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

• As far as I can tell, Leftcoastbreakdown's actions in this particular case are a non-issue. If this changes in the future, we'll take appropriate action, but for now it's fine. -Hit bull, win steak^(Moo!) 18:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I can certainly understand a desire to not speculate about future administrative actions in response to misbehavior that has not yet occurred. My question, rather, is whether we're endorsing or letting stand Cumulus Cloud's warning that Leftcoastbreakdown is forbidden from editing the article under pain of being blocked, or simply saying we'll deal with it under usual COI principles if the subject ever comes up again. If I were in Leftcoastbreakdown's or American Aparrel's place, the warning would have a chilling effect on my desire to ever participate again in the project, whereas the softer approach might encourage me to proceed with caution if there is every any minor neutral upkeep I could perform on the article. Maybe that's a good thing. But don't we allow parties to tidy up their own article? Wikidemo (talk) 01:58, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

The do-not-edit warning is overboard and should be stricken. As Wikidemo notes, policy allows even editors with obvious COI to edit. As a practical matter a review of Lcb's edits shows he (she) has no interest in editing here other than to protect or promote his employer's interests, so I doubt much harm has been done. Raymond Arritt (talk) 02:11, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Concur with Raymond Arritt. ThuranX (talk) 03:36, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Concur with Raymond Arritt. Edit Centric (talk) 06:42, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Need Administrators Attention to this checkuser findings

A request for checkuser case against User:UzEE was confirmed and now it needs the attention of Administrator. Sarmad (talk) 04:01, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Umm, You asked, and were told what would happen. Be patient, please. - Rjd0060 (talk) 04:28, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok! i just thought to bring it at the noticeboard so Administrators can have a look at it! Sarmad (talk) 05:03, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Just a note: any administrator may tag and block (or not block) based on checkuser findings. Clerks often do it since they keep an eye on the page, but there is no process stating that clerks must be the ones doing it. We are only here to close and archive cases (and in doubt it happens that we close a case and let the requester find an admin more familiar with the case to act upon it). -- lucasbfr ^talk 09:27, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Needing a Little Help

[edit] User:Yeanold Viskersenn

Fut.Perf. ☼ 23:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Image commented out, there's really no reason why it should be here too. Fut.Perf. ☼ 23:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

This is a simple question but really needs to be addressed. It has been brought up once before and edits to improve the situation continue to be reverted as vandalism or other somewhat misleading edit summaries

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Yeanold_Viskersenn&diff=prev&oldid=180732796

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Yeanold_Viskersenn&diff=next&oldid=181596688

See previous discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive346#User:Yeanold Viskersenn Does the following use of an image of one user be allowed to be used on another users personal page with the following caption.

The image and caption to the right is copied from User:Yeanold Viskersenn

The caption is a valid quote from Stan Shebs as found on Viskersenn's talk page. But its use as a caption just seems wrong to me. Is my thinking wrong? Or is this considered accpetable within Wikipedia? Dbiel ^(Talk) 21:28, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Have you considered nominating the page at MfD?--Addhoc (talk) 21:40, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

As a disinterested third party, it's clear that something should be done. The image is also used by User:Yeanold Viskersenn here. I'll Mfd the page. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 21:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Discussion now at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Yeanold Viskersenn, so this section could probably be marked resolved. Addhoc (talk) 22:37, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

MfC has been closed, image removed from user page per WP:DICK. Fut.Perf. ☼ 23:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand how WP:DICK confers any authority to remove any content from anything. Frongle (talk) 05:11, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Vandalism"

User:Smart Viral recently reverted my addition to an article with the summary "Reverted 1 edit by Arrow740 identified as vandalism to last revision by Cuchullain." My edit was obviously not vandalism. He did this same thing a few days ago and was warned about it by two other editors. This is simple disruption. Can something be done? Arrow740 (talk) 22:40, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

sorry i press "Rollback (Vandal)" instead of "Rollback". Smart_Viral ^(talk) 22:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

In the future, Arrow740, please bring this up on User talk first. Smart_Viral, thanks for apologizing and be more careful in the future. Let's all go edit the encyclopedia now... — Scientizzle 22:50, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Valediction

Are there any administrators out there who can handle this issue? There is a proposed or suggested merger of two articles that has been lingering on for three months (since October 2007) ... See Valediction. Can some administrator out there officially come in and close the discussion and end the proposed merger? Please advise. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC))

Done. :) IrishGuy ^talk 00:17, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 01:08, 8 January 2008 (UTC))

[edit] M People revert

Hello I have added info to M.People's wiki entry which has been removed, it is factually correct so can you please out it back to where it should be as it was a lot of content! I should have signed in when I did it but it's frustrating that it has gone. Please can you authorise this. Thank you Ebs <email removed> Username : ebuaki —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebuaki (talk • contribs) 03:15, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorted, it was a vandal Bot revert that caused the problem. --WebHamster 03:30, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Not quite sorted, I fear. quite a lot of what is going in seems to be lifted from [99]

and/or [100], the latter of which attributes "Encyclopedia of Popular Music". I can't stay around, unfortunately, but there seems to be a copyright issue here. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 04:08, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Associated vandal sockpuppetry

Hotel9999 (talk · contribs) and Hommee111 (talk · contribs) are both apparently creating nonsense articles and have correlated edit histories. Can someone address this? Seems like blatant vandalism across multiple new accounts. Maybe worth a checkuser as well to see if any additional vandal users/IPs have gotten without notice yet. Many thanks, Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 03:54, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:RBI. Plonk. — Coren ^(talk) 04:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Current DYK Main Page Image vandalism

The image Image:1939 Time Capsule Cupaloy.gif on the main page for DYK is being vandalized on Commons. I uploaded the original there, but the vandal reuploaded the cat instead. I know normally the image is moved to WIkipedia from Commons and protected, but I am not sure how to do that. Could someone please help, thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 05:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

The image was protected at the commons. See [101]. - Rjd0060 (talk) 05:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 05:32, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Normally, when an image from the Commons is posted in the DYK template, the updating admin needs to upload an identical copy of the image to Wikipedia, specifically. The Wikipedia copy of the image will be protected because it's on the main page, which has cascading protection. The image on Wikipedia gets tagged with {{c-uploaded}}, which notes that it's protected. Once the next DYK update is done, the Wikipedia copy of the image gets deleted, and then the Commons version of the image shows through (so to speak). There are instructions on how to do this in comments in the source of the DYK update template. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 05:34, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_oxymora_2

This afd was closed today as delete by a non-admin. However, it seems that the page survived deletion as it was nominated again today as Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_oxymora_(2nd_nomination). The latter was closed (but it seems something is wrong with the closing. Would an admin look at both afd's and see what is wrong with them? Thanks.--Lenticel ^(talk) 09:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Y Done A user had closed the first AFD as "delete" despite not being an admin so couldn't actually delete it. That was reversed and for some reason a second AFD had been opened. All fixed now. Neıl ☎ 09:41, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I think we need to put the resolved box. --Lenticel ^(talk) 09:49, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

If it makes you happy ;) Neıl ☎ 10:00, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Repeated reverts of sourced statements, harassment, and tendentious edits by Biophys

[edit] Fake articles and vandalism relating to Victoria Beckham

miranda 16:36, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Articles relating to Victoria Beckham that are constantly deleted and resurrected by the same three users ( Girls alouds biggest fan, Surfer-boy94, & 59.100.199.1 -- who are all quite possibly the same person) include the following:

Open Your Eyes (Unreleased album) - which has been deleted at least 4 times as per: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Open Your Eyes (Victoria Beckham album)

The Hustla‎ (unreleased song; fake single with fan-made cover art)

I'd Give It All Away‎ (unreleased song; fake single with fan-made cover art)

Aswell as vandalism to:

My Love Is For Real (Victoria Beckham song)‎ - (adding fake fan-made cover art and making up dates and "info")

Template:Victoria Beckham (adding links to all said fake articles)

My constant attempts to simply add redirects to Victoria Beckham have been futile as one of said users just reverts.

These articles are nothing but fan made nonsense with fan-sites and music blogs as the "sources", if any, aswell as links to illegal download sites. Something needs to be done to keep them deleted or a constant unchangable redirect without being resurected yet again.

I may not be completely familair with the exact term, but is salting the fake pages in order?

Celebrity-Benji (talk) 13:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Protection of the redirects would be adequate. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 13:23, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd go for salting, personally. -- lucasbfr ^talk 13:54, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, if the songs are fake, there's no valid reason to have a redirect. —Random832 14:04, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Well the tracks are real, but only in low quality internet-leaked versions, they were never planned as singles or included on any album. Celebrity-Benji (talk) 14:08, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I've deleted the redirect from the supposed album title, since if there's no such album it shouldn't exist - if the songs themselves are real then i guess there's no reason to delete those. It's possible that without a place to put an album article the users will run out of steam; if it continues the redirects can be protected. —Random832 14:09, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Well thankyou very much for your help Celebrity-Benji (talk) 14:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

The redirects have been protected to save theem being speedied when recreated - no point in not doing so. Neıl ☎ 16:06, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Also, the page has been revived via Open Your Eyes (Unreleased Victoria Beckham album) before aswell. Is it possible to have this page salted aswell, to avoid another possible recreation? Celebrity-Benji (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 14:21, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Y Done by User:Nat at 14:36, 8 January 2008. -- lucasbfr ^talk 15:48, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of Scottish monarchs‎

Edit war in progress here. Admins with no previous involvement required. Regards, David Lauder (talk) 14:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

The reverts are between Micheal Sanders and Deacon of Pndapetzim. Volunteers? - Mtmelendez ^(Talk) 14:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User Xixaxu is using my talk page for his personal affairs

[edit] Alliance for School Choice

[edit] 206.207.175.135 (talk · contribs)

206.207.175.135 should be blocked. Please check history in article such as Elvis Presley and Nintendo DS. Thank You Sahilm (talk) 19:17, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

• Simple vandalism. Hit him with the appropriate vandalism warnings, etc. Not an ANI incident. Argyriou (talk) 19:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Page move vandalism at 19:26, 8 January 2008

Urgent [111] a mass coordinated attack of page move vandalism has occured! Blueanode (talk) 19:26, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, umm...WTF just happened there??? Gromlakh (talk) 19:32, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

All done and dusted. Blueanode (talk) 19:52, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Harvard class project disrupting Wikipedia via meatpuppetry on articles

[edit] User:TheOnly ones has issued a slew of disparaging personal attacks at me

It started when he called me an "obese mallpunk kid".[115] After asking him not to call me names, he followed up by calling me "Warped Tour Kid" in two seperate edits.[116][117] This gave way to him saying about me " You could always go listen to your Green Day CDs while the big boys contrib to the articles."[118]

I'm getting pretty tired of all this abuse. Hoponpop69 (talk) 23:03, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Off the top of my head, he reminds me of a sockpuppeteer who constantly creates new accounts to add his own POV to what genre bands are or aren't. When confronted, he always resorts to juvenile personal attacks by calling others "kiddies" and whatnot. I can't recall who the puppeteer is right now. I will try and remember if no one else can. IrishGuy ^talk 23:55, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Daddy Kindsoul. Will ^(talk) 01:25, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Obvious sock; identical pattern of edits and not very imaginative in his invectives. Indefed. — Coren ^(talk) 01:47, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Learning Opportunity

I do not want to bother my local friendly admins with my curiosity so I'll ask here. Is this ok? Brusegadi (talk) 23:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Erm.. no. Reverted. — Save_Us_229 23:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User:S Seagal's talk page comments

User:S Seagal has left some rather uncivil comments on my talk page. Brief explanation of the history: I tagged Anti-Pakistani sentiment for G4 speedy deletion and left this note on the article creator's talk page. Seagal responded with this, to which I responded with this "no personal attacks" template. Seagal once again responded, with this.

It seems like reporting it at WP:AIV would be overkill since mine was only the second warning for personal attacks, but it's clear that any further attempt on my part to communicate with this user would only cause further provocation. Could someone with more experience with this sort of thing perhaps issue another warning, or give me advice on what I might do?

I'm afraid this may come off as rather petty, but based on the user's history of incivility (as documented on the user talk page) I doubt that just ignoring it would have a positive effect on the user's future behavior. --Icarus ^(Hi!) 00:20, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I gave him a stern final warning. — Coren ^(talk) 01:35, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jaakobou (talk · contribs)

[edit] Concerns of admin abuse by Nihonjoe

User:Nihonjoe created the article Youmex, a now defunct anime and music production company. Another editor tagged it for CSD.[153]. Even though he was the creator of the article, Nihonjoe removed the CSD tag rather than letting another admin decide it. The editor who tagged it sent it to AfD instead. In the AfD discussion, Nihonjoe has shown some borderline uncivil behavior in his interactions with other editors. While the AfD is going towards a keep consensus, the sources themselves were questioned by the original nominator as well as other editors in the AfD. To address the issue, I checked all of the sources and found most were just the word Youmex appearing on a store page or as part of the catalog number, clearly not reliable sources. I cleaned up the article to fit what was verifiable through reliable sources, and added another reliable source for some additional titles. Nihonjoe reverted the redo, proclaiming his version had correct sources.[154] I reverted, because what was removed was unreferenced and said so in my edit summary. Nihonjoe removed again, with the edit summary of "What the hell are you talking about? You REMOVED several references, please stop doing that, I'm working on the article right now, and your reverting is making that difficult"[155]. I undid, again, and tagged his user page for adding unsourced material and to ask him to work from the revised version rather than an old version. He removed the warning with the edit summary of "You're full of it, as I said, and I'[m working on the article right now." and reverted again[156]. I reverted again (unintentionally as vandalism) as he continued to refuse to source the original research and personal views that he was adding back, or to explain how his "sources" were reliable.[157]. In response, he protected the article[158] with the note "To stop the stupid reverting by Collectonian [edit=sysop:move=sysop])."

He also created a redirect for Futureland (record label) to go to Youmex. I CSDed it as an improbable typo (and his providing no reliable source that Futureland was, in fact, a part of Youmex. He removed the CSD even though he was the one who created the article, claiming that anyone can remove a CSD even the creator, even though the CSD notice specifically says otherwise.

To me, an admin who runs around un-CSDing his own articles and protecting as article he created so only he and other admins can edit it (even if he has, currently, kept it at the cleaned up version), is abusing his power. His attitudes with other editors in this case and seeming ownership issues with some articles is also appalling for someone with administrative powers. Collectonian (talk) 04:00, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

• I understand your consern, and I am experiensing a similar situation with an admin in my category of expertise. But User:Nihonjoe has done a lot of work for the cumminity, why not give him a bit of latitude and see how things go? Igor Berger (talk) 04:17, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
  • His long experience and seemingly over all good edits are the main reason I brought here instead of RfC. Collectonian (talk) 04:19, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
• First of all, anyone (including the creator of an article, whether or not they are an admin) can remove a legitimately invalid CSD notice (thought it's not recommended, but WP:IAR applies here, I think). If it is removed, then there's obviously a dispute over it and it should be taken to (in this case) TfD. Until Collectonian came along, all the concerns raised in the AfD discussion had been addressed (including my concerns that someone would AfD an article less than 24 hours after it was created when it was obvious someone was working on expanding it).

  Collectonian then proceded to remove all of the references for various items in the article without any legitimate reasoning, and without regard for the subject of the article being a very difficult one for which to find online resources. The only legitimate concern was a little bias I had included in the article based on my personal experience and knowledge of the company. After it was pointed out, I specifically reworded the article to remove that bias, but Collectonian abused Twinkle to revert my edit without any reason (nothing in the edit summary at all, other than the fact he'd used Twinkle to do it and that he considered my edit to be vandalism). Collectonian claims that the information in the article which he removed was unreferenced, though that is clearly untrue.

  I then protected the article (specifically at the version I did not want, and to prevent Collectonian from abusing Twinkle further) so that no one would edit it further as it was obvious that Collectonian was going to revert anyone else who edited the article to something other than what he wanted.

  The messages I removed from my talk page were rude and uncalled for (especially since they were obviously intended for people brand new at editing—Collectonian himself has only really been editing for the last 4-5 months despite having an account open since 2004).

  As for the Futureland redirect, it's a legitimate disambiguated redirect which is being used by several related articles. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 04:25, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

  • I removed a bunch of references that didn't actually support anything in the article. You can't just throw in some links and try to call them references if they don't support anything. Anyone can remove a PROD, not a CSD. The removed information was not referenced. Most of the lists of titles you gave were not even mentioned in any of those references, and several of the "references" did nothing more than have the word youmex in a catalog number or somewhere on the page. Your references were invalid hence their removal.Collectonian (talk) 04:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
    • All of the references you removed were either referencing a specific item or contained lists of Youmex titles. None of the lists contained all of the titles, but together they listed all or most of them. As I've pointed out over and over, the company has been defunct for almost ten years (an eternity on the web), and finding online references is difficult. It is very likely that one or more of the magazines I have has an article about Youmex, but I haven't yet catalogued all of them yet (it takes a lot of time to catalogue an entire magazine, let alone hundreds of them). All of the sources you removed were legitimate. Nothing I did was abusive (concerned, yes, and perhaps a little heated, but not abusive). You complete ignoring of legitimate sources, and use of Twinkle to enforce your opinion is abusive, however. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 04:52, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
      • All references don't have to be online. I added sources from one of several english language anime encyclopedias, and I suspect some of the other ones may also provide much better information as they do span multiple years. You did abuse your powers by removing a CSD from both an article you created and a redirect you created. A CSD is not a PROD and even if you felt it was not valid, as the article creator, you should never have removed them, but left it to an administrator who was not personally involved to make the decision. Regular editors who remove a CSD from their own articles are warned quick fast and in a hurry. Do you feel that because you are an admin you are somehow immune from the rules or being warned? Collectonian (talk) 05:09, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
        • Collectonian, anyone can remove a CSD tag, and it is really improper for you to have been using Twinkle to edit war with an administrator who was in the process of writing an article. There was no reason to revert when content was being added that had references. The last version seemed to have several sources, but you tacked on that the edits were vandalism. I'm not sure if this is something you have to work on, or something that needs to be removed from the Twinkle script, but I can see no improper activities by Nihonjoe here, other than protecting a page he was working on.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 05:12, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
          • Um, what? Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion pretty expressly prohibits an article's creator from removing its CSD tag. Of course, IAR wouldn't let that translate into preventing the removal of plainly invalid CSD tags, or are you explicitly disagreeing with written policy, in general? Someguy1221 (talk) 05:18, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
            • That is a relatively recent addition to the criteria. The edit summary where it was introduced said that it was restoration of policy. But I, for one, wasn't aware that it had been policy up to that point. It doesn't seem to match the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion/Archive 19, certainly. Nor is it in any prior version of the page that I've seen. It's a rather wide blanket provision, for the simple reason that it is administrators that we expect to know what the speedy deletion criteria are, and whose judgement is supposed to be sound in whether a tag has been incorrectly applied. And yes, as the edit summary said, one cannot advertise for a company that no-longer exists. However, I note that the article gave no indication at that point that that was the case. Uncle G (talk) 00:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
          • If that is true, then the CSD template needs to be rewritten because it says very explicitly that the article creator should NOT remove a CSD, but put a {{hangon}} tag with an explanation of why they feel the article should not be deleted instead. Collectonian (talk) 05:21, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
          • Okay, after reading that, it looks like I was mistaken in that one instance. However, it appears that I'm not the only one to be mistaken in this regard as Ryūlóng also wasn't aware of that. Regardless, it was an abusive use of the CSD system to nominate the redirect (and the article itself), and at least those who abusively used CSD are now actually discussing the issue rather than incorrectly nominating something for speedy deletion which obviously doesn't qualify. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 05:29, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
            • Accusing your opponent of "abusive" use of the CSD system won't help your case - it's not abusive as long as it was made in good faith and based on a defensible interpretation of policy. And then there's still the protection issue, which is a very blatant case of misuse of admin tools indeed. I mean, come on, you surely can't plead ignorance about that one, can you? Protecting a page you are in an edit-war over is an absolute no-no, most basic of all admin behaviour rules. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:34, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
              • For what it's worth, he at least remembered to protect the wrong version. Someguy1221 (talk) 07:38, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
                • Point taken. But what's the point in such a protection then? If you've got an edit war between just two people, there's an easier way to ensure that the article stays on your opponent's ("wrong") version: just stop reverting yourself. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:45, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
                • The problem being that the article is listed for AfD, and unless the article is improved, it will be deleted. Collectonian did nothing but destroy the work that had gone into sourcing the information found there (calling ALL references other than his own unreliable). Exactly how is that good faith, and exactly how does that help improve the article? As I indicated (several times now, including when I originally did it), I specifically protected the version of the page I did not want so I couldn't be accused of using my twiddled bit for my own purposes. I haven't tried to hide the fact that I protected it, and I didn't violate the spirit of the rule (which is in place to prevent what I specifically did not do). I also haven't edited the page since protecting it, either. There is no misuse here on my part, blatant or otherwise. A misunderstanding on my part of the policy, but I already admitted to that.

                  As for Collectonian marking the Futureland (record label) for deletion, that was absolutely an abuse of the CSD system. The only reason he marked it for deletion was because I created it. Period. It was an invalid tag as it was a legitimate redirect (which was in use by several articles). He claims that I have no proof that Futureland was a label belonging to Youmex, and that's why he marked it for deletion. I have a pile of CDs here that would like to argue that with him, and there are plenty of CD catalogs out there which would argue that with him, too. As I've told him multiple times, finding online resources discussing Youmex/Futureland as a business is very difficult due to the company about ten years ago becoming defunct due to being reabsorbed into its parent company. I have printed resources that may have such information, but it takes quite a while to go through more than 100 thick magazines and 50 or so large books. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 08:00, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Here's a first: a thread with a title involving "admin abuse" where there's actually a case to answer. Wow! I'm not going to comment on the admin issues, looks like some errors of judgement rather than malice. However: Joe, you know that new articles get patrolled and are under extra scrutiny. You know we need sources. You know that a deletion nomination isn't a personal issue and that you should remain calm. Most worrying to me is this continued mention of "online resources". Who gives a flying f*ck about online resources? We need references, not excuses. If the company's old, dig out your magazines and then write the article. At least get a few decent refs together first to establish notability. The world wasn't invented the day the web was switched on, nor is there any rush to document this company that probably isn't very notable anyway... --kingboyk (talk) 15:23, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

• Protecting the article means that no one can improve it, which seems silly since it's at afd and it's likely that people would want to improve it. Since the protection was illegitimate (Nihonjoe used page protection to prevent his opponent from editing it), shouldn't it be reversed? Seraphim ^Whipp 16:17, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, looking at the article history, I'm not exactly sure what grounds Collectonian has behind this complaint. First after Nihonjoe created the article, Superm401 (talk · contribs) tags the article as {{db-spam}}.[159] However, anyone who actually looks at the article at that point can tell that it wasn't blatant advertisement and that the {{db-spam}} was inappropriately applied and Nihonjo's removal stated that fact.[160] Superm401, then sent to article to AfD.[161] Ok, no real problem so far.

Nihonjo continues to expand the article and add sources[162] until Collectonian (talk · contribs) comes in and undoes most of the work and removes nearly all of the sources Nihonjo added.[163] At this point is when the edit war started between the two different versions with Collectonian eventually calling Nihonjoe's reverts "vandalism".[164][165] After Collctonian's last revert, Nihojoe locks the article to keep the edit war going further,[166] only to see this complaint here.

I also note that neither party attempted to discuss the dispute with each other on a talk page. Particularly, Collectonian didn't attempt to explain why he felt the sources that Nihonjoe was using weren't reliable. --Farix (Talk) 17:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

• The questioning of the sources occurred in the AfD (in short, they didn't support what he said they did), and unlike Nihonjo, I've already taken my punishment for my inappropriate labeling of his bad edits as vandalism like a good girl and lost my Twinkle. He, however, abused his admin powers on this and other articles by removing a CSD from his own articles, then protecting an article he was personally involved in. Because he has admin powers, he just bypassed all the usually methods any other editor would have been expected to follow, which is an abuse of those powers to me. Whether his actions were right or wrong, he still decided to do them himself instead of letting an editor not personally involved in the article deal with the CSDs and evaluate the need for page protection. I've lost Twinkle access for 72 hours even though our minor edit war resulted in not a single warning left on my page, yet his misuse of his powers when he obviously had a COI in the situation seems to be considered just fine. Collectonian (talk) 17:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I know nothing about this incident. However, I have noticed many times were Nihonjoe has been a poor admin/editor, particularly when it comes to references written in Japanese. Thats one outsiders point of view. 220.253.5.116 (talk) 03:37, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WB/UPN Intrastate Template Deletion resulting in inadvertent CW Intrastate Templates deletion

(Brought up again from Sunday, has not been looked at yet.)

A group of since-confirmed "clean-up" sockpuppets brought up a discussion on TfD on December 25 about deleting the intrastate templates used in articles relating to affiliates of the now-defunct UPN and WB networks. Even if the deletion was suspicious, the vote went to deleting all the templates since they were hardly being used in any articles now and cleanup would have ensued eventually, since The CW network took over many of those station affiliations and CW state templates were added to every CW affiliate station article after its September 2006 launch.

However a side effect of the deletion going through was that unknowingly, all of the WB and UPN intrastate templates were redirected by the cleanup sockpuppets to those of the CW intrastate templates, which weren't under any discussion at all. Because they were RD'ed, most of the intrastate CW templates were then deleted accidently, leaving only ten remaining according to Category:Intrastate CW Templates. I do not contest the WB/UPN deletions (I voted yes within the discussion), but would like the other 40 or so CW templates restored as soon as possible. WP:TVS, of which I'm a member of is concerned about it, and I mean no harm in bringing this up; I suspect the deleting admin at the end of discussion didn't even know about the redirects to CW templates, but since this affects at least around 150 pages, needs to be rectified. Thank you. Nate · (chatter) 21:47, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I've undeleted them - I think I got them all, I was going based on the deletion log—Random832 17:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/BillCJ

Hello. Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/BillCJ was created recently. It is malformed, and BillCJ has declined. One strange thing is the nom on the RFA. His only edit outside the RFA was notifying BillCJ. Anyway, could someone please close it? Thanks. JetLover (talk) (Report a mistake) 03:37, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

As there was no follow-through after this, I'm being bold and considering this an odd form of vandalism and simply deleted the malformed page. If there's a serious nomination, it'd be welcome - done correctly. SkierRMH (talk) 04:02, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

It is warming, however, to be niminated. User should be grateful, as he could have been nominated. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 04:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the nominator is a long-term stalker and troll of BillCJ, given the note at the top of the latter's talk page. Hence the brusque treatment. -- RG² 11:35, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Half-dozen hours since unblock request

Hello. I'd like to point out that a request for unblock was made on User talk:5dsddddd at 21:35 on January 8. It has remained unanswered for a while, so could an admin please answer it? Thanks. JetLover (talk) (Report a mistake) 05:20, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Unblock was declined by User:Luna Santin. Nakon 14:41, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Resumption of IP vandalism after block

217.38.127.254 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) - [167] Non current. -- John (Daytona2 · Talk · Contribs) 10:20, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unacceptable edits

Please see these edits of Jmm6f488 (talk · contribs) here and here. These are totally unacceptable and even after being warned of the first, he did the second. Also this one before the 2 above: [168]. -- ALLSTARecho 14:38, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Blocked for 48 hours, that was disgraceful. Ryan Postlethwaite 14:42, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

48 hours? Feeling generous Ryan?! The Rambling Man (talk) 14:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd call Ryan downright stingy; if it'd been me, I would have indeffed the guy. Stuff like this[169] is 100% unacceptable. EVula // talk // ☯ // 14:54, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

(ec)Yeah, I would have indef-ed too. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:59, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Just saw this here after I left a final warning. Strange thing is, seems to have had a long period of inactivity and then had a couple of edits before flipping. Would agree with an indefinite. Woody (talk) 14:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

If the user had never edited in relation to those topics before, then I would almost suspect a compromised account. But that doesn't appear to be the case. An indef block seems appropriate, but - given reasonable contributions in the past and sincere contrition now and in the future - 48 hours may be acceptable. UltraExactZZ ^Claims ~ Evidence 15:19, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

The point is, he has given some good contributions in the past - we shouldn't banish people for a couple of bad things in the space of one day. No real problems with an indef if someone wants to adjust it, but this could easily be done if he were to step out of line again. Ryan Postlethwaite 15:23, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure how CU works, but would it be possible to run it on some of his "good" edits and these "bad" edits to see if they're at least from the same location? If the 48 hour block wears off and he comes back with the same attitude, I'd say it's safe to indefinitely block. If it's a compromised account, when they come back, they can make their case for an unblock (which I'd be willing to give the benefit of the doubt to; as has been pointed out, there were good edits in the past). EVula // talk // ☯ // 15:38, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it's curious. This diff shows a considerably different style of approach to these controversial topics. It definitely smells like a compromised account... The Rambling Man (talk) 15:41, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I doubt it'll be compromised - it looks more like the user got bored with Wikipedia, left for a bit and decided to come back to have a little "fun" - hopefully 48 hours should help him realise that he won't be able to get away with that in the future. Ryan Postlethwaite 15:48, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Unless someone is willing to extend the block, let's see what the user does next. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Would someone sort out this page?

The ANI formatting seems to have gone haywire. Entire sections, such as Liancourt Rocks pert one have disappeared. Can somebody have a look and see where the problem started? Thanks. --Folantin (talk) 16:03, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Same here, been like that for 2 days now, kinda bugging me. Seem on my side the sections are replaced by a black line, this occurs through 4 browsers I have tested. Dureo (talk) 16:39, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I've just now deleted what seemed like a rogue discussion close tag. It's also possible that due to the tremendous article size, your browser was having trouble rendering it. We seriously need to more aggressively keep this issue at bay to maintain accessibility. --slakr^\ talk / 16:41, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

From the history, it looks like it was the archive bot that was to blame. It archived the "==" sections of debates but not the related "===" subsections (if that makes sense). See report at AN here [170]. --Folantin (talk) 16:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorted. ——Random832 17:16, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User:Hoserjoe

Calling a female editor 'hormonally deranged' is a blockable offense in my opinion. I've given him a warning and won't block because I've dealt with the guy so it's a COI. I would also appreciate a look into him admitting he has two accounts, both used for editing the same Elvis talk page. Unless users know that, his discussions are meatpuppeteering. Thanks. the_undertow ^talk 23:05, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Block on next offense. —Kurykh 23:59, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Lara❤Love 03:33, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I still would like clarification on why the user contributes to the same discussions using two different accounts. Is this an acceptable use of a sock? the_undertow ^talk 04:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

What's the other account name? Raymond Arritt (talk) 04:49, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Very rude! Second account is User:BomberJoe.I agree with Kurykh and will assist. That said an apology should be offered by User:Hoserjoe.--VS ^talk 05:02, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Detailed history from LaraLove

This is not the first instance from this user. Here's a full history:

• August 17, he added the Christian singles to {{Elvis Presley}}. It was a poor addition not only in that it was unnecessary and overly long, but the links were duplicated in instances, and many did not lead to the song they were meant to.
• August 19, User:Rikstar brings the change to the attention of those working on the Elvis article with a talk page thread that ran until archived in late October.
• November 3, User:Crazysuit posted this discussion on the talk page suggesting "to separate the list of Christion songs into a separate article," expanding with a rationale.
• November 11, User:DePiep replied to the talk page message agreeing with Crazysuit, who then removed the then cleaned up addition per the talk page discussion.
• November 18, Hoserjoe responded here and then re-added the section.
• November 19, DePiep reverted the re-addition. This is also the day Hoserjoe initiated a discussion on Talk:Elvis about the content of the article, as seen in full here, running until November 24. He used his other account, BomberJoe, in this conversation as well, as seen here. User:Rodhullandemu called him out here. User:Jeffpw agreed here. Onefortyone also agreed here. Hoserjoe admitted it here then clarified. I then tagged both accounts.
• December 25, Hoserjoe re-added the section once again. He also removed an entire section and a sourced sentence from the article despite the ongoing conversation on the talk page. And also questioned that he's actually referred to as "The King of Rock'n'roll" and "The King". I reverted and posted to his talk page.
• December 26, I reverted his addition to the template, and he responds to my talk page message from the day before on my talk page, to which I reply.
• January 16, Hoserjoe posts to Talk:Elvis (in the middle of someone else's comment) stating that "Most of the article is simply an exercise in editorial vanity by a few (one in particular) self-centred and obsessive editors. ..." [sic] I'm not clear if he is referring to me or User:Onefortyone. Then he posts to my talk page asking "Is there some reason why you deleted the entire Elvis discography template?". Considering I'd not deleted it, only reverted his additions, I reply with this, pointing out that this has already been discussed.
• January 17, he replies with "Thanks for your reply, Lara. The answer to your question is that Elvis was primarily a Christian/Gospel/church singer. He wasn't a "Blues" singer for the simple reason that he disliked the blues, but he'd do it if he had to. Those of us old enough to have attended his concerts know this. You, being a young girl, do not know this. It's the ignorance of youth. Not necessarily a bad thing unless it's accompanied by a closed mind. And it's most unpleasant when ignorant youth try to make a new "truth" out of cobbled-up fiction. The entire Elvis article has become a nightmare of fiction, but you're doing an excellent job of defending it. Soon you all will have remade Elvis into a repressed, gay, punk blues, atheistic, draft-dodging, womanizing biker. Well done!". This is where he has confused me with Onefortyone, as I've not written any of the Elvis article, I only formatted the 237 references and footnotes, created Wikipedia:WikiProject Elvis Presley and have been attempting, on the talk page, to reach a consensus for trimming some of the info out of this article. It's currently halted for Arbitration. But that's an aside. I reverted the message. the_undertow saw this message and dropped a line on Hoserjoe's talk page. He apparently didn't get it.
• January 20, he posts this mess on my talk page. the_undertow reverts and warns.

Hoserjoe's accusations of my contributions to the article are unfounded. He ignores consensus and causes disruption. I request uninvolved parties review this history, please. Regards, Lara❤Love 08:23, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

A user RFC would be appropriate here (as a precursor to arbcom or a community imposed ban, if he doesn't improve). MER-C 09:08, 21 January 2008 (UTC)