Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Maps

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Geographical coordinates WikiProject Maps is of interest to WikiProject Geographical coordinates, which encourages the use of geographical coordinates in Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.


Archive 1 (2004) Archive 2 (2005) Archive 3 (2006)

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[edit] Vote on standard colors and gallery of exemplars

Texas Locator Map with US
Texas Locator Map with US

The two threads below have been on the talk page for a long time now. I've also noticed that many people are already following its suggestions, such as in the example to the right. I recommend that we vote on moving these guidelines out of the talk section onto the main project page. Please vote Support, Oppose or Comment. Tomcool (talk) 18:49, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Standard map colors

Move the Map Colors table below to the main Wikiproject Maps page, with language that these are the recommended, standard colors for maps in Wikipedia.

Support: We need standard colors to give WP a consistent look. These colors are proven to lend themselves to clear, professional-looking maps. They are already on their way to becoming de facto standards; moving them to the main project page will help advance them toward a de jure standard. Tomcool (talk) 18:49, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Support: I agree: we need standard colors for maps in Wikipedia. MapMaster (talk) 00:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Support: Agreed, as mentioned they're already de facto standards, putting them on the project page should help visibility. Kmusser (talk) 13:55, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gallery of exemplars

Move the Gallery of Exemplars out to the main Wikiproject Maps page, with language that these maps are examples of standard maps in Wikipedia.

Support: A gallery of exemplars is the quickest and clearest way to communicate what standard maps should look like. Tomcool (talk) 18:49, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Support: Yes, they should be on the front Project Page. Madman (talk) 05:12, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Support: Yes, will help support the standard colors adoption. Kmusser (talk) 13:55, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gallery of Exemplars

As I suggested in the Map Colors discussion below, having a gallery of exemplars might help to advance our discussion of standards. These exemplars might also serve as an interim standards for mapmakers to use until the project establishes standards. Since mapmaking (and reading) are extremely visual, it helps to be able to see what people are talking about. Here is a suggestion of what such a gallery might look like:

UK outline map
Standard colors:
Medium blue - 9ec7f3
Yellow - ffffd0
Tan - f7d3aa
Additional colors:
Gray - 808080

Ancient Greek Colonies of North Black Sea
Example of inset
Standard colors:
Medium blue - 9ec7f3
Yellow - ffffd0
Black - 000000
Blue -1821de
Additional colors:
Red - ff3329
Taupe? - 4d4d4d
NavyBlue? - 0000aa

Florida Political Map
Standard colors:
Medium blue - 9ec7f3
Yellow - ffffd0
Black - 000000
Orange - f7d3aa
Additional colors:
PowderBlue? - cee3e9
BrightYellow? - ffff00
Red? - ff0000

Texas Locator Map with US insert. A popular map.

Blank map of India, used as a base map for other India maps. It is a featured picture and an example of a SVG format map.

An historic map example featuring the Holy Roman Empire.

People could then add, delete or change the comments as the discussion on standards advances. Tomcool 13:46, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Map colors

We need to come up with a standard palette of colors to recommend for use in all geographical maps. The previous use of "Pink" (FF0D0) and "Lavender" (F2D0FF) as third and fourth colors for four-color maps is unworkable.

Color Hex RGB Sample Used for
Black #000000 0, 0, 0   Primary label color
Brown #A08070 160, 128, 112   Political borders. Country, state, and province borders should be brown.
Light brown #D0C0A0 208, 192, 160   Secondary political borders.
Light yellow #FFFFD0 255, 255, 208   Primary territory of interest, or one of four choices for four-color maps.
Pink #FFD0D0 255, 208, 208   Another color to be used for four-color maps.
Orange #F8A20C 248, 162, 12   A third color to be used for four-color maps.
Green #3CE67B 60, 230, 123   A fourth color to be used for four-color maps.
Light blue #CEFEF2 206, 254, 242   An alternate color to be used for four-color maps.
Orange #F7D3AA 247, 211, 170   Alternative color for the above Tan (surrounding territories).
Medium blue #9EC7F3 158, 199, 243   Bodies of water. Oceans or lakes.
Blue #1821DE 24, 33, 222   Water borders, if necessary. For lake or ocean borders that need a color contrasting with surrounding land, or for rivers.
Red #B00000 176, 0, 0   Points of interest. Cities, especially.
Red-orange #F07568 240, 117, 104   Alternative color for the above Red (points of interest).
Medium red #E0584E 224, 88, 78   Border color for areas highlighted in Red-orange
Green #A0F090 160, 240, 144   Parks or natural preservation areas

Feel free to add or revise the colors above and suggest new colors for specific purposes.

This is an important idea but doesn't take into account the complexity of map-making. Reading over the list of suggested uses, this looks to me like a scheme for regional or perhaps national maps; cities are shown, perhaps, as small dots or symbols. Many maps are of this type but many are not.
City maps must show, at a minimum, highways, arteries, and streets; by convention most maps use different colors for each. Topographic maps show contour lines; railway maps (among others) show rail lines. Demographic maps and their relatives tend to use large numbers of colors to show populations or distributions of some variable. (Personally, if the variable assumes ordered values I strongly prefer tints of one basic color.) Mass transit maps are often drawn by transit agencies to reflect scheduled service that is named by color (see Chicago 'L'); we must follow these schemes.
I do strongly agree that map standardization contributes to the overall professionalism of the project. Color palettes only scratch the surface; fonts, line styles, and a host of other variables ought to be standardized. I do fear, though, that there are simply too many existing maps in widely various styles to be redrawn. These act as a giant boat anchor opposing any effort at standardization. Still, I feel there's some value in the effort. John Reid 09:15, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Multiple pastel shades are very difficult to distinguish on LCD screens, like my laptop. I would encourage the use of more highly saturated colors than the ones proposed, for color-coded maps where the color carries the information content. (Rather than just helping to increase the contrast between two sides of a black-line border.) -- Beland 01:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Any opinions on the colours to use when shading a map by height? I personally quite like a progression from green (sea level) to yellow (low hills) to white (mountains) and perhaps to purple (for the very highest mountains). -- ras52 12:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Yellow
Yellow
Switzerland
Switzerland
Thanks for making such a comprehensive and useful recommendation. I think adoption of a palate (or a series of palates) such as this one is a good way to go. One quibble: the basic color, Light yellow, #FFFFD0, is a little vibrant, maybe even garish, when used for large areas. I noticed that a lot of good maps used in Wikipedia use a slightly tamer yellow, #FFFFEO, so I recommend establishing that as a standard. (Example in a map I built is at right.) One other recommendation to help advance this issue: we should create a gallery of good maps that we can refer to as interim standards and as examples to advance discussion. (Interestingly, if you browse all maps that have been Featured Pictures in Wikicommons, there's only a handful, and they don't immediately suggest a standard.) One of the maps we should consider for this gallery is the outstanding map of Switzerland (to the right.) Tomcool 23:20, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I am at a loss as to why the Switzerland map is an exemplar. While the use of shading makes for an interesting effect, it does not produce the clarity that we need here, particularly for so complex a map as that of Switzerland. In addition, the names/labels on the map are too small to be read except at the higher magnifications. Moreover, of the five maps shown as exemplars, this one does not use anything close to the standard colours. Thanks for listening, Madman 05:12, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Madman, good point. I thought it was a good map, demonstrating an alternative palette, since a standard has not yet been established. But I've come to your POV and have switched it out for another example, a popular map for locations in Texas. Tomcool (talk) 18:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ColorBrewer

I would consider that we adopt the pallette of color brewer. SCmurky 23:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Which ColorBrewer palette? The best-looking one for height seems to be the fourth sequential one which runs from dark green, through increasingly pale colours to a cream, but I don't think that's ideal — for a start I'd prefer it all to be paler, go to white (rather than cream), and perhaps beyond white to purple. But maybe ColorBrewer can do more than I'm realising. Was this the colour scheme you had in mind? -- ras52 08:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
I was just thinking in general, because it takes time to establish conventions regarding map colors, and colorbrewer does have a standard palette with lots of variety. This would probably work better than the list we have above. Do you know of a more extensive list of colors for use in maps? SCmurky 17:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Also I would have to say I disagree with any efforts to limit color choices within cloropleth maps (eg. pink, green, red, blue for a 4-color map), no matter the number of classes. Colorbrewer has a large palette, this would offer some standardization for colors, without limiting choice (eg. pastel vs. darker colors). SCmurky 17:40, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The recommendation to use Colorbrewer is a well-considered one. A lot of work has gone into establishing these standard palettes, and many aspects have been addressed, such as friendliness for color-blindness and photocopying. The Colorbrewer interface is also excellent. The problem, IMO, is that the many of the color choices could be better. Many of the colors are unnatural and garish. This is an aesthetic question, I know, but I think that some of the palettes are ugly and maps made from them are going to tend to be ugly maps. I'd like to hear from some more experienced map-makers and maybe some graphic artists, fine artists (especially painters), or photographers or colorists to see what they think. Tomcool 23:31, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On Style and Standards

I made some first steps in creating some badly missing African river maps – see Image:CongoLualaba_watershed_plain.png and Image:CongoLualaba_watershed_topo.png and while working on that i had a few thoughts i would like to share and get some feedback for:

  • As already mentioned by others it might be a good idea to have some standard color maps for relief altitude coloring. There should best be at least two variants for maps where the main purpose is showing the topography and others where it should not distract too much from other map content. Currently the most widely used color maps for this purpose on Wikipedia seem to be the Demis one (like Image:Topographic30deg_N0E30.png) which i find not that nice and the one introduced by User:Captain Blood (like in Image:Canada_topo.jpg) which is very heavy.
  • Map projections. Of course this much depends on the map purpose but some general guidelines might be good to introduce. http://www.radicalcartography.net/?projectionref provides some useful information but is very elaborate. Especially for medium area maps like of continents or larger countries there are lots of possibilites with strongly varying results. I also noticed that a lot of maps do not have any information on the projection used in the description. This is not always necessary but if you know it and it is not self-evident i would encourage everyone to provide this information. Imagico 22:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Very nice Congo maps, though I might add country borders to give more frame of reference. It's been on my list to do for awhile but I never got around to downloading the African datasets. I've had requests to do the Nile as well if you want to take it on. As for the relief coloring I like the Demis one, especially if your adding other content becuase it's light enough not to get in the way. Kmusser 15:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
For the Nile the nothern part is difficult so find a clear edge of the drainage basin for. The western edge of what is shown in http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/water-resources/map-299.html looks very much like guesswork to me.
I uploaded versions with borders but this of course means more clutter – Image:CongoLualaba_watershed_plain_political.png and Image:CongoLualaba_watershed_topo_political.png. Imagico 21:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
For another datasource to check against try http://edc.usgs.gov/products/elevation/gtopo30/hydro/africa.html - though in really dry areas drainage boundaries are largely guesswork, nothing to be done about that. I do like the new maps better, not quite as pretty but probably more useful - I'd use the topo_political one for the article. Kmusser 23:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for that link – I made the Nile now using that data for the north-east edge (and the VMAP0 river network for the other parts): Image:Nile_watershed_plain.png and Image:Nile_watershed_topo.png. I also think the Shaded version with borders is probably best although it does not use the standard colors of course. Imagico 14:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I uploaded an old topographic map I made that is somewhere in between the light and dark examples that you gave. I still have the color ramp I used for this one somewhere if others are interested in using it. Image:Uspaintedrelief.png Kmusser 15:41, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that looks quite good (although i am not sure if the use of violet coloring for the high mountains is optimal). But as you said a brighter scheme is less disturbing for secondary use. Imagico 21:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Battle of Chalons

Proposed image for the battle of Châlons. Althoguh it look like a map it cannot deserve the proper title as it holds no true scale. Due to the rarity of informaiton and lack of actual knowledge on the location of the battle I took artistic leave to build the terrain based on Jordanes' dercription. Thoughts are welcomed.--Dryzen 19:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

First, let me commend you for your work: you have spent many hours on this map. Also, I have no problem with the background; until a recognized authority proves where this battle occured, all we can say about the battlefield is what Jordanes says -- that on one side there was a hill of some height and a stream that ran through it. However, there are a few changes I would recommend:
  • I don't understand why you have the Alans at the far left at the beginning. Jordanes is quite clear that from the beginning of the battle they had been stationed in the middle, between the Romans and the Visigoths, where Aetius and Theodoric could keep an eye on them.
  • I'd also rename the groups you have called "Germanics". First, I'm not sure that this is the proper term; "German tribes" might be more accurate. However, the Huns had a number of non-German allies at the battle -- Slavic peoples, horse-warrior peoples, & others -- or so many modern historians & nationalists state; I'd rename the group on the Hunnic side to "Hunnic allies" or "Allied people", & avoid the problem entirely.
  • Related to this is another problem, that you have a lot more information on this map than I would vouch for -- & I have researched this battle fairly thoroughly for my contributions to this article. There are a number of commanders I do not recognize as having participated: Merowig, Ellak, Ardaric, etc. And you provide a lot more details on unit movements than I believe can be documented. I feel the best thing to do is to remove some of the detail you have added. Although I don't like Michael Babcock's book The Night Attila Died for several reasons, I think his simple map & brief notes provide a model worth copying. His portrait of the battle focusses on three actions (to which I have added some notes):
    • The initial race to sieze the hill between the Huns & the Romano-Gothic Allies, which the Allies won. (Jordanes is unclear here: he places the Visigoths on the right of the Allies lines, yet from his account one could conclude that the Visigoths under Theodoric captured this hill on the allied army left.)
    • Then Attila led a countercharge into the middle of his opponents' lines, which Babcock claims drove the Alani under Sangiban back. (This may have also been the skirmish where King Theodoric of the Visigoths was killed.)
    • Attila then fell back to his encampment, where he prepared to fight to his death, with the Visigoths in close persuit. Some, under Theodoric's son Thorismund, apparently pursued the fleeing enemy past Attila's camp, for Jordanes notes Thorismund mistook the Hun's camp for his own & was almost caught while entering it.
Showing more than this borders too close to original research for my taste -- unless your intent is to illustrate how a specific authority interprets the evidence for this battle, which then is fine but you should indicate that this is what you are doing. -- llywrch 19:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Not German tribes, that hurts my brain, "Germanic tribes" otherwise the ancient Gauls would be French tribes.
Well "Germanic" hurts mine. So there. :-P -- llywrch 21:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, but it usage in modern scientific literature to use Germanic tribes as they are Germanic peoples. German is a 16th century creation to distinguish between Dutch people as now the inhabitants of the Netherlands were called Dutch and that of the HRE German. Wandalstouring 00:05, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
    • "Attila then fell back to his encampment, where he prepared to fight to his death, with the Visigoths in close persuit. Some, under Theodoric's son Thorismund, apparently pursued the fleeing enemy past Attila's camp, for Jordanes notes Thorismund mistook the Hun's camp for his own & was almost caught while entering it."
  • I think this are two seperate things whether someone follows the enemy in pursuit or mistakes an enemy camp for his own.
  • Source this map. Afterwards we can remove unsourced material.Wandalstouring 19:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I think the first thing we need to do is source the map, and remove anything which is unsourced. old windy bear 23:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
The map is source on the map's page. Most of it had been cut off in the re-loading. I've little time so I'll make my reply brief:
  • I've not read Michael Babcock's book and thus have not seen his map. The extract from Military Magazine only had a similar map as our own article.
  • Merowig was in charge of the Frankish force that slip of when Ellak Khan's division broke through the Alan lines. This information was taken from a few french source. Most of wich is present at this site http://mapage.noos.fr/huns/Bataille.html .
  • As to the Germanics, sadly both the Romans and the Huns had a battle built of numerous different tribes and peoples. I took the names wich I found most often.
  • Well there was researh I can't deny that, this information didn't come out of nowhere. I tried to show as much of the actions as possible. Such as the multiple Visigoth groups that formed after they had beaten back the Ostrogoths: some charging back into battle others looting and some chasing their earlier opponents. I hope the returning arrow showed Attila's retreat?
With this little explanation keep up the critique.--Dryzen 03:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Although I did create a map of what could be called the Chalons campaign, I can't contribute much knowledge concerning the actual battle itself. However, I thought I'd add some thoughts concerning the map:

  • In general, PNG or SVG will provide sharper detail than JPG.
  • Perhaps a series of maps would be more understandable than one single map that attempts to show everything. See, for an example, the Battle of Grunwald article which has four maps that create an easily understood narrative.
  • Most battle maps represent the forces with rectangles, rather than circles.
  • The Legend icons for "Dispersal/Raiding" and "Scattering" are difficult to see, even at this large size. Can they be larger?
  • Yes, "Germanics" is an attempt to make a noun from an adjective. It should be German tribes, or German forces, or even Germans.
Take a look at Osprey: Rome's Enemies(1) Germanics and Dacians. To say German tribes is a little bit quaint. Wandalstouring 00:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I did some research it the most common use is Germans, but Germanic tribes. Wandalstouring 00:13, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I would prefer a plain green background instead of the gradient now used. We should either use a gradient to show some feature (e.g. higher elevation) or not use it at all.

Despite these nit-picks and suggestions, you've made a great map. I hope to see more. MapMaster 20:19, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Perhaps a mape that shows the changes like the map of Australia here:
    The background could use more colors to show the elevation, what about yellow to brown? Wandalstouring 13:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

To enumerate the changes:

  • Use of Germanics or Geman tribes and what about the minor leaders/factiosn?
  • Use larger icons for dispersal.
  • Change topology colour: solid or gradiant (Yellow to brown could be done, wasn't done from onset due to prototype image, then I didn't think about it for the finals)
  • I had rectangles but I found that that gave too much of a size and organisation impression. It hard to know how large where the battles (divisions) and what form they where organized in. But I can change it back to rectangles.
  • And the sources? I didn't really get a good reply on that point.
  • Series or Animated?
  • I'll see about exporting into another format. Will depend on the above as well.

Dont worry about the nit-picks, I like constructive critism, its good for the map. :o)--Dryzen 15:53, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Maps of the Roman-Spartan War

Can anyone help and create some maps of the troop movement in the Roman-Spartan War? If you need some help on how it should look like and what happened, etc. post it on the article's talk page. Thank you very much. Wandalstouring 20:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments requested

Could you take a peek at the map on the right, and let me know how it can be improved? It's the old townships of Manchester, taken from a 1905 history of Lancashire. There's an online version of the original here, and in context here. Obviously, it needs a title (across the bottom) and a scale (in the space at the lower left?) and the source (in the space at the lower right?) I've used the colours suggested above. My minor breakthrough came when I put the labels at half intensity - pure black just stood out too much. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mr Stephen (talk • contribs) 23:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

One day, I will remember to sign my posts ... Mr Stephen 00:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • This is a fine map of the ancient parish, can I add the image to the Manchester page and also on the Manchester (ancient parish) page? Cwb61 18:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Thanks and help yourself, but I will try to make the final additions (as above) over the weekend, so it might change a little bit. Mr Stephen 22:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I also believe this to be a fine map. Yes, I would agree with a title and a scale. Not sure that the source is needed on the map itself, although I would definitely add it to the Image page. If I had to make suggestions, they would be to bring the lower edge of the map up a bit to reduce the space not showing to the city, and to increase the size of the legend on the upper right, for better legibility.
All in all a fine map. I hope we can see more such maps from you. MapMaster 00:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments on some maps requested

I've been thinking about making maps that show the Monongahela River basin and its main tributaries. It is a relatively small river system, but a fairly confusing one in terms of the names of the streams. I thought I might be able to make a map or a set of maps about it. At first I thought I might be able to make a single map of the river system, perhaps with letter or numbers next to streams and a key naming them. That is still a possibility, but I've ended up making a few test maps of individual streams in the system. I thought I could post a few here and ask for feedback. There are some tricky aspects to making maps of the Monongahela basin while keeping the maps clear and clean and image sizes around 300-400 pixels wide. First, it seems that you need to show the Allegheny and Ohio rivers, and the city of Pittsburgh, since the Monongahela is so strongly associated with them, no? Second, the streams mostly flow north in meandering ways, and close together, making it hard to label along the stream lines. So for these maps I've tried bolding specific streams, giving them a glow, and naming them both at the bottom and somewhere near the stream itself.

Here is an example of the style I've been working on, for the Cheat River: Image:Monon-CheatRiver.png

Also, there is one stream in the system, Black Fork that is very short. I'm curious if the map I made for it is alright, or how it might be better: Image:Monon-BlackFork.png

Since this basin is a small area, I'm thinking some kind of locator inset map might be needed, showing where in the US this is, don't you think? On the other hand, it is hard to avoid clutter on maps when they are only 400 pixels wide. Finally, my instinct is to make the maps 300 pixels wide rather than closer to 400 as they are here. Does it make sense to reduce them to 300 pixels myself, or let the wiki reduce them automatically? Are they acceptable at 300 pixels, or would it be better to tweak the text. And is it even worth the trouble? Here's a couple 300 pixel reduced maps: Image:Monon-BlackFork300.png and Image:Monon-CheatRiver300.png

Thoughts? Thanks! Pfly 21:08, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that looks great, even the Black Fork one. You could include a U.S. inset, though if you do zoom out a bit to make room for it, I don't think it's critical though - as long as Pittsburgh is in the map, I think that's a well known enough city that most people would be able to orient themselves. I think the text size is fine. For the image size I started out doing mine 300 pixels wide, but my more recent ones I've done at around 500 and let wiki reduce them and they seem to come out a little better, not a big difference either way though. Kmusser 03:09, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] XML+XSL=SVG

A question. Theorethically, it should be possible to store latitudes and longitudes in a custom XML file or a proper GML file, couple it with one ore more XSL file and generate an SVG map. This would be advantageous because it would decouple the geospatial data and its visual style in the same way today's HTML rely on CSS sytlesheets for their visual appearance. Has anybody looked into this? manu3d 23:15, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

That's how the program "Osmarender" works in the OpenStreetMap project. Yes, it works. Richard B 19:40, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] High resolution map of Sweden

Hi! I was wondering if anyone here have or know of a good high resolution map of Sweden. Please answer at my talk page. Thanks! --Krm500 23:22, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Airport route map - comments requested

version 2
version 2
version 3
version 3
non-hub example
non-hub example
low volume international example
low volume international example

I thought some of our airport articles would be greatly enhanced by route maps, so I took a crack at making one and would like comments on it. Kmusser 01:13, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I love the concept. Love. It needs refining but I'm not entirely sure where. Some suggestions, maybe things to toy with:
  1. On the global map, ignore the dots in the United States - it just makes a blob. Or make them tiny or something. This could lead to...
  2. On the USA map, ignore dots that aren't in the United States. This would open up the lower right for...
  3. A map of Europe, which on the global map is just another blob. For airports that focus on other regions - like one that has far more East Asian destinations than European - you could put East Asia there instead.
  4. Then again, then the Caribbean becomes a blob, and that's less easy to resolve. So maybe this is the better option - Show the United States and the neighboring regions on the big one, then the global map, in which case we just have to clean up the global map. So maybe you should ignore 1 and 2. :)
  5. As it is, the map is cutting off south Texas.
I have to remember that this doesn't have to be authoritative, just a helpful illustration to add to the article, so I need to make sure I'm not demanding too much. I'm not demanding anything, just brainstorming.
I love having a different color dot for the anchor airlines of the airport, though personally maybe the dots should be on top of the longitude/latitude lines, instead of under. Did I mention I love the concept? Good show. --Golbez 02:02, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Nice map. I really like the projection, although perhaps that's just because it's so unusual.
Echoing to some extent Golbez's comments, I don't think that you can have the nearby cities (e.g. US, Canada, Mexico, Caribbean) on the same map with the distant departure cities. It's just a matter of scale. It might work if the secondary (world) map did NOT have the US on it.
In the Legend, "United" should be "United Airlines". I also find it difficult to differentiate between the "Multiple Carriers" and "United".
In any case, good job. MapMaster 17:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
My concern would be the mercurial and ephemeral nature of the information, subject to change without notice. Because of that, once you start the project, you might get part-way through the project and then start pulling your hair out. You should at least clearly date the maps "as of" so that future updates would be well-understood and differentiated. In places where there are various major carriers, I believe you would need to cite the different major carriers or you might be tagged for POV or advertizing, such as if you solely noted United Airlines in Dulles. I sort of like the concept, but you should address how you will keep up with this as a system of maps over time. --Petercorless 18:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
My plan was simply to date them, currently it is dated in the text, but I could add the date directly to the map. It's intended to be a snapshot, not an authoritative map that would be constantly updated. For the carriers, I originally planned to do a different colored dot for each major carrier until I actually made the map and saw that almost 90% of the flights were United. I think which carriers are shown would have to be customized to each airport and that picking out the airlines that use that airport as a hub can be done in a non-POV fashion (usually it's already stated in the article text). For non-hub airports I don't think I'd bother differentiating carriers. Kmusser 19:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Just for fun as an example of the concept, can you whip one up for a non-hub? ABQ, GEG, or ALB would be a few ideas. --Golbez 19:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Will do, I'm still working on a few variations on this one which I should have up shortly. Kmusser 19:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
(caught in edit conflict) I was going to also suggest a low-volume foreign airport, what would be a good one without *too* many destinations... how about Sapporo or Eilat. --Golbez 19:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I have new examples for to look at. I revised the Dulles map, changing the colors a bit, adding a Europe inset, and removing the points that are in the insets so that each destination is only marked once. I tried out making the insets circular, which I think looks cool, but for some reason my mapping program then doesn't display lat/long lines correctly, I'm thinking of just doing away with the lines, it certainly makes the map easier to make. Also added the examples Golbez asked for - the Ovda destination data was rather dubious, but it does show you what that type of airport would look like. Kmusser 23:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Nice, nice. First of all, I love having the zoom-in and not showing it on the world map, AND showing on the world map which portions are zoomed in. It worked very well. I'm not sure which I prefer, the circle or the square; the circle looks better, but the square is probably more professional. And yeah, we don't NEED the lines, and if it makes this simpler, go for it, nuke 'em. Making the airport a star was also another good idea.
As for the lower-volume airports, that really shows where this shines. Sure, Vegas might be mentioned as a destination in the text, but I never noticed it - but now it's easy and neat to see that, inexplicably, there's a direct flight from Albany, New York, all the way to Las Vegas. And it was nice to have the airport codes there as well; for the lower volume airports that's viable, and obviously not for the higher volume ones (unless you wanted to do a 4x size map... which may not be TOO bad of an idea in some cases, heh) I also think it worked well for Ovda (Except for one minor issue - you're using an old version of the world map, as it still includes Serbia+Montenegro). I can see only one real issue with the projection you're using, and that's Australia. Will you simply have another box for Australia when we run into North American flights heading there? Because as it is, it's simply a strip of nondescript pixels, if that. --Golbez 00:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
And perhaps we should tilt the 'inset' maps based on a central city, because I know you're going to hear complaints that Europe is 90 degrees off kilter. ;) And if you have an Australian inset map it will be completely upside-down. --Golbez 00:38, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I am very impressed! Nicely done with all versions. If I had a vote, I like version two because the circles are in synergy with the global image. Ronbo76 15:22, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
version 4
version 4

Made some minor edits, changed the projection for the Europe inset on version 2 and fixed the Montenegro boundary. I don't think I'll run into any projection problems if I don't use the funky projection for insets, there would be if I tried to show something literally going around the globe, but there are no such flights - the Dulles-Singapore route is almost as long as they come. I'm going to try a version of the Dulles map with labels just to see what it looks like as well. Kmusser 15:12, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Looks good. Have you decided on the round inset instead of square, or did you just test the new projection on the round? --Golbez 19:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, unless someone else argues against it I'm going to stick with the round insets.Kmusser 19:37, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Another version with labels added, I'm not sure I like it though, it does add more info, but I think the map is harder to read in thumbnail form. Kmusser 02:08, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Thumbnail version is hard to read but reads well when clicked upon. Ronbo76 02:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Well done, and it makes it easier to differentiate between the different airports in areas, like ORD and MDW. How are you making these, manually or with a program or what? --Golbez 03:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
With a GIS program (ArcGIS), the main work is compiling a list of coordinates for all the destinations, once that's done the GIS mostly does the rest - I'll write up a tutorial when I get a chance. Kmusser 10:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Step one should be How to get your hands on ArcGIS and keep your money. The licence acquisition for Editor and Info are rather difficult for the common mortal. Fine work.--Dryzen 21:25, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Very true, I recommend become a contractor for the Feds for that :-) Kmusser 23:53, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Working on it... even if its different feds. ;o)--Dryzen 15:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I realize this is late to the conversation, but what if you produced the blank maps and then locator dots were overlayed (such as on {{National_parks_of_the_United_States}}). It might be easier to update for other users in the future. You could use different colored/sized locator dot images and wouldn't need to display the airport ID's -- hovering could popup a label that shows the airport ID + city name. --MattWright (talk) 15:31, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I would say that those maps would be rapidly overwhelmed. Just look at how evil the northeast would be in the Dulles map if it were clickable. --Golbez 16:29, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I may be misunderstanding your reply, but I wasn't suggesting using the *same* map as the National Parks of the U.S. It could still be a custom map image like has been created for Dulles, just that the dots would be placed using divs and would be clickable/hover labels. It would then be easier to add or remove a single airport if service changes. It may not be a good idea, however. --MattWright (talk) 16:58, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
While a neat idea, the amount of work it would take makes my head hurt. If someone wants to try it I could get them a blank Postscript version of one of mine as a base. Kmusser 17:11, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
True, it would be a lot of work, and my hesitation is that it would become outdated, or only partially updated. Do you have a data source you are using to automatically generate these or are you manually tracking down routes and adding dots? If it is something that could be automated, I may be more interested in looking into it. --MattWright (talk) 17:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
A little of both, I have to manually track down the routes and the lat/long coordinates, but once I have those the dots and labels are automatically generated and if I need to shift the map extent, scale or create insets the dots will move along with the changes. To do the dynamic map I'd need to figure out the appropriate extent and scale first and then place each dot and label manually using image coordinates. Kmusser 17:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
What I had envisioned was a single template that is a blank map. This template could then have locator coordinates for every single airport code, so you would call it like {{Airport service| width=200px | base=IAD | DEN=United | MSP=Multiple | ... }}. Then, using these parameters, it would place only those dots that are defined as service airports and use the star at the base airport. Coordinates could be placed as a percentage of map width and therefore would always scale in proper direction depending on how large the map requested is. But it sounds like you are doing a *ton* of manual work already, so I applaud you. I too worry about it getting outdated, so unless there is an automated way to have a bot grab routes and determine serviced airports/airlines, I think a static image that is updated periodically is a better way to go. --MattWright (talk) 17:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Such a template would be gargantuan. --Golbez 17:56, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I think that would be unwieldy as a template - if you include every airport with commercial service, that would be over 10,000 airports - if you could pull that information out of a database it might be possible, but that means creating the database as currently it doesn't exist as far as I know.Kmusser 18:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

It's a great idea, but I wonder how sustainable it will be, particularly if done for lots of airports. Don't routes change over time? If the maps are presented as showing routes as of a particular date I think it would be fine, but it would be a huge task to try to keep the maps constantly up to date. Perhaps they could be updated periodically in a batch, say every year or half-year. -- ChrisO 17:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, the latter is my current plan, dating them, and maybe revisiting them in a year or so. Kmusser 18:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Categories and templates

A while back user Stevertigo made a new template for tagging map requests; Template:Mapit. I like that it has a different picture than the photo request (specifically, a map and not that dumb question mark), though I think it needs to have the categories we use built in.

Speaking of categories, would it be acceptable to make some more, specifically for places that span continents: perhaps "Middle East" for Bedouin or Arctic for Arctic bridge? Thank you. OverMyHead 18:27, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I would stick with Template:Reqmap and Template:Reqmapin since that's what most people are using, but if you wanted to edit those to replace the question mark with a map I certainly wouldn't object. You're welcome to make more categories. I had been making one for any country/region that had at least 3-4 requests, but have fallen behind. There are definitely enough for a Middle East category. Kmusser 22:47, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Definitly need to change the question mark, maybe a rough map (polygons) with questions marks? As to categories I think making some more specific sub-categories a good move to sort out the needs and requests but we should stop ourselves from develloping categories that are too specific or that will be lost within the Cat-tree.--Dryzen 16:04, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

What about this as a picture? OverMyHead 16:37, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. Kmusser 17:55, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
That will do nicely.--Dryzen 16:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
SVG it if possible - compression artifacts everywhere, does not have transparency, doesn't scale well. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 14:16, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Need advice on my territorial evolution maps

Here's a few links to look at: Territorial evolution of the United States, Image:Canada provinces evolution.gif, Image:CSA states evolution.gif.

That said, here's two samples from my latest project:

thumb|it's big thumb|it's small

On the others, note that I start showing all of the land, but Mexico started large and got smaller. It would seem kind of insulting to have half of a map of present-day Mexico filled up with the United States. So, how should I go about animating this? Crop them all to the same size? Jump in height like I do? Forego animation altogether? Or, keep Texas and the USA there the entire time? Which I think is simply not an option. Thoughts? --Golbez 19:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

This is a common problem when creating a time series of map: the subject changes sizes or focus. I would suggest trying to keep the same scale in all maps, even is it means changing the size of the map. Good luck, 04:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Hrm, but in the case of Mexico, that would mean a good 1/3 of the map would be whitespace. I can change the scale without affecting readability... --Golbez 11:51, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Hmm I see the dilema, how does it look keeping the smallest scale (i.e. largest territorial extent)? I'm leaning less towards keeping with a window encompassing the current territoiral extend becuse it cuts off an important portion of history and making a mid gif switch can dilude the loss or cause confusion in the readers. Not an easy choice, but the first will definitly have effect, juste like the Byzantine Map. --Dryzen 15:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm leaning towards that as well. After all, this isn't a map of Mexico - it's a map of all the land that has become or been a part of Mexico. --Golbez 15:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I know it's sparse, and some of the images need work, but it's quarter to 7am and I haven't been to sleep yet and somehow I decided, hey, I'll shlomp it up. So please check out User:Golbez/sandbox for what will in a few hours be Territorial evolution of Mexico. --Golbez 10:46, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Whats your take on replacing the dark grey for he united states with a pale grey or white? Currently I think the darker colour steals too much of the readers attention from the light pink of featured territory (Mexico). Either way I think it was the right call to keep the extent.--Dryzen 19:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't yet know if I *will* keep the extent; I may make two versions, one for the list, and one for the animated gif. The animated gif has to keep the full extent, but the list doesn't necessarily need to. I might go with pale grey, yeah. --Golbez 23:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
If you have the time, nothing works better like a small field (sandbox) test.--Dryzen 15:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
How does this one look? I'd have kept going except I forgot to add the dotted line, so I figured I'd throw up this errored one and see what people thing. Note that until this point in history, the foreign countries would still be dark gray; the switch to light gray with the grey words is signifying that this area is now unchanging, this is forever (at least to the present day) gone. --Golbez 23:14, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
I think it worked out great with the lighter colour. Will you keep the above explicative?--Dryzen 13:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Antarctica exploration map

Hi, I would like someone to translate the following map from German to English so we can put it on the History of Antarctica page: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Karte_antarktis2_exp.png Should I request it here or at the Wikipedia:Translation pages? Thanks Andeggs 09:09, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] US army maps

Just pointing out the huge topographic maps series by the US army at the PCL collection.. they are all public domain, and very detailed, although they are a little old (1950s). There are already a few on commons --Astrokey44 01:46, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for review of map classification

I recently created two maps of the south-eastern Mediterranean region (Image:Southeast mediterranean annotated geography.jpg and Image:Israel and occupied territories map.png). They were created specifically to provide an overview of the region as a whole, showing the whole area at an equivalent resolution and a very high level of detail.

I'd be grateful if editors could take a look at Image talk:Israel and occupied territories map.png and Image talk:Southeast mediterranean annotated geography.jpg. I would appreciate an independent view of whether my stated rationale for classification makes sense. -- ChrisO 22:04, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I saw this dispute, and I agree with you on the categorization. --Golbez 22:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Looks fine to me. Kmusser 23:55, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Battle of Greece maps

I found these three excellent maps in the French wiki (available also in Commons):

Could you help me with their translation? I want to replace the current maps of the article, most of which are old ones, and I am not absolutely sure that their copyright status is solid. I think that by translating them, we can enrich both Wikipedia and Wikicommons with three excellent maps. Thanks in advance!--Yannismarou 19:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Israel map problem

You may wish to see WP:AN/I#Blatant abuse of speedy deletion by Jayjg, concerning Image:Israel and occupied territories map.png. Outside input would be welcomed on the issue. -- ChrisO 08:37, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Just to follow up on this, I've uploaded a new map proposal - see Image talk:Israel and occupied territories map.png#ChrisO Image for details. -- ChrisO 22:55, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Map copyright query

I would like to reproduce or create a map of a few streets in Wiesbaden, Germany in connection with an article I'm working on, Jeremiah Duggan, in order to show Duggan's movements in the period just before his death. The map I want to base it on is here, which says it's the copyright of Microsoft. The arrows and explanatory boxes were drawn by Duggan's family, and they have no problem with it being used, but I'm assuming they can't release it because it's based on someone else's copyright.

What do I have to do to the map, in terms of adding enough of my own creative work, to be allowed to use this map in the article without having to claim fair use? SlimVirgin (talk) 22:34, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

street maps are a problem because the information in the map itself is probably copyrighted (unlike say a map of the whole of germany where there are numerous public domain satellite photos and maps etc.) I suggest you look for old maps of the city which have fallen into the public domain --Astrokey44 01:17, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Okay, thank you for the reply. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:54, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Would it be allowed to use cropped screenshots of Google Maps with, say, a opaque shape overlay as an image/map (like these: 1 2), assuming that I credit/cite Google for the map? I was interested in creating maps to show the various neighborhoods of the Bronx, eg. University Heights. Here is Google's terms of use page, but I'm not sure that it makes it clear if you can use their content with proper references. Thoughts? --Alheim

No, those images are not free-use. From their license; For individual users, Google Maps, including local search results, maps, and photographic imagery, is made available for your personal, non-commercial use only. --MattWright (talk) 01:04, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps using it merely to find coastlines and locations is okay. Copy-pasting is obviously illegal, but in the same way that using information from books is legal, so long as it's not the same words (Wikipedia definitely does this), using a satellite photo as a source is not illegal either, especially due to the noncommercial purpose. But the end-result map probably should be significantly different from the photo, e.g. different colors, maybe less information, etc. --CommKing 22:45, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
But Wikipedia is not "personal use", you're publishing it. I'm pretty sure that publishing it under the GFDL would allow people to use it commercially. There is a school of thought in which tracings from a photographic image (i.e. a map traced from an aerial photo) would become a derived work, with the copyright owned by the copyright holder of the image.
You may not copy, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, translate, modify or make derivative works of the imagery, in whole or in part. You also may not rent, disclose, publish, sell, assign, lease, sublicense, market, or transfer the imagery or any part thereof or use it in any manner not expressly authorized by this agreement.
Note the "make derivative works, in whole or in part" bit, and the "publish" bit. That would preclude you from using it in wikipedia (publishing) - and creating a map from the aerial photos would be "making derivative works" - even if you use less information (the "in part" bit) Richard B 23:47, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Fair use may fit for some of this. Using a map which has information from Google Earth (Not directly copied at any stage in its creation), made with information from other sources as well, which does not depreciate the value or market for Google Earth, very little information is used (e.g. less than 100 square miles), and the i constitutes information of little importance. Little importance in this case means not big cities, major landmarks, and well-known places, and does mean little-known, low-profile, remote locations. This probably would qualify as fair use because it reflects an incredibly marginal proportion of Google's product, the information shown is of little value compared to most other similarly-sized parts of the product, and using it will definitely not decrease demand for the product.
Considering that Google Earth would only have information of use to us (Which can't be found elsewhere) on low-profile locations, this would drastically increase our ability to map remote areas. So long as we do this sparingly it's quite likely that it will not only qualify as fair use, but go unnoticed entirely. I'm not recommending the use of Google Earth, but I am suggesting that if we can't get information elsewhere we look into this further. --CommKing 22:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I'd say it'd be treading a fine line, Particularly if we're using it to "map remote areas" in many locations. I mean, just how many extracts can you take before a fair use claim becomes difficult to justify?
There are free equivalents in some places; maps produced by the US government are public domain, including NASA satellite photos (of anywhere in the world). OpenStreetMap has some areas covered in some detail, but conversely some areas with little coverage. OSM has some coverage of Wiesbaden. Maps also go out of copyright after a period of time; in the UK, it's 50 years for OS maps, and the NPE edition ordnance survey maps are available online - in many cases, street layouts have changed little in 50 years. I'm not saying that small Google Earth extracts are definitely not fair use, but if there are free equivalents, then that's infinitely preferable. Richard B 22:55, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
why is it that when I go to edit a map on openstreetmap the first thing I see is a satellite photo which is "Data Copyright 2006 Navteq, TeleAtlas"? --Astrokey44 02:32, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Richard B, the answer is very few. We can't take many extracts, which is why we should use it sparingly. As long as we don't do it often and maintain a small number of maps, and ensure that these maps cover very little area and area of little importance, we're probably fine. Beyond that we may risk lawsuits. Openstreetmap should be used whenever possible. Google Earth should be used sparingly. When we can't justify either, several physical atlases and historical text should be sourced. And by no means do I recommend using Google Earth— all I'm saying is that it's not necessarily illegal. --CommKing 17:05, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] VA tech massacre map

There is a truly terrible map at Virginia Tech Massacre, where someone took a map of Blacksburg from a source other than Wikipedia and placed a white box over the word "Blacksburg", typing over it with "Virginia Tech". It looks terrible. Further, it may be copyright violation. I'm busy with the Lamu map...if someone could help out, I would appreciate it. Here's the map:

Thumb

CommKing 14:12, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

It's definitely not a copyright violation, as I recognize that map as being part of the National Atlas, which is PD-gov. --Golbez 15:08, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] European Map

I think that there should be a European map showing the regions of each country: i.e. counties of England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Iceland; provinces of France, Spain and Portugal and the states of Italy and Germany etc, but applied to as many european countries as possible. (I would make it myself but I do not have the means). The practical implications for such a map are numerous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SKC (talk • contribs)

Would Image:BlankEurope.png be large enough to make it from? --Astrokey44 02:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Statistics-driven maps

World map showing Life expectancy
World map showing Life expectancy
Population growth rate in percent, as listed on CIA factbook (2006 estimate).
Population growth rate in percent, as listed on CIA factbook (2006 estimate).
Countries by number of internet users.
Countries by number of internet users.

Hi, I've spent a lot of time looking, but haven't been able to find info on how it is that maps like the two shown right, are generated. I realise that they are somehow based on the template Image:BlankMap-World.png, but could someone tell me what the exact method is?

The reason that I ask is that I have been working on a program to generate these statistics-driven maps. The idea is that you provide this program with a list of country names, country specific data (say literacy rates from the CIA world factbook), and then a colour range, and have it generate an attractive svg, or png map. It still has a lot of work left to go, but you can see some sample output here.

Assuming a system like this isn't already being used, what would people like to see in one? what should the default image format be? image size? built in default colour palettes?

--Aaaarg 05:07, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

that would be very useful! something else to include would be optional larger dots for small nations. There is a way to generate them that was worked out by Dbachmann shown at commons:Image talk:BlankMap-World-v5.png#GIMP script but it would be nicer if there was an easier way of doing it --Astrokey44 02:39, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


An update:

I've done a lot of work on this project, and finally have something to show. The project has been done as an Apollo application, however, Adobe's apollo runtime is still in alpha. You can still see what I've done here though:

http://gunn.co.nz/map/ (440KB, requires flashplayer 9)

The full apollo application allows users to save the generated map as an SVG, or as a PNG of up to 2880x1312 pixels.
To use:

  • Select an example dat set from the combo-box, OR
  • Copy and paste data directly from a properly formatted table like the CIA world factbook one found here: [1] into the box in the bottom left
  • Specify what data lies in what column if necessary
  • Click on the "parse data" button

That's it! Now you can now change the colours around, edit the data, and play with the balance slider to improve the image.
I am going to be out of town for the next few days and I plan to work on this as soon as I get back. In the mean time it would be great if people could try it out and give me some feedback.
Also, I wonder if someone would be able to advise me on licensing the images produced. I am considering something like the CC Attribution-ShareAlike licence, however it occurs to me that that might prevent people from using GFDL licensed wikipedia data to generate the maps. Would that be the case?

--Aaaarg 07:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

It looks amazing so far! A couple questions though.. having trouble getting the CIA files to work with it, when I copy paste the data from the page you linked to it doesnt work. I can see that it works by typing them in manually: country, tab, number, but the CIA data seems to have extra spaces. Cant get a macro to remove them because it picks uop spaces between countries with two words. Also, more importantly, the save png and save svg buttons seem to have no effect. If you could get these to work it would be incredibly useful to use on the CIA data, especially as the maps keep needing updates. --Astrokey44 11:24, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
You're fast! Thanks for your feedback, and also the welcome. The CIA world factbook files should work now. Also note that the program works pretty well with data from pages like those on List of countries by literacy rate, just remember to specify the columns. The problem was due to browser differences. About the save buttons - they only currently work with the offline version, which requires Adobe's apollo runtime, which is currently in (a very stable) alpha. I shall probably put it online as soon as I get back home in a few days anyway. I am also considering the possibility of having the online version being able to save files too, but I need to think about bandwidth. Flash can't save files directly itself, it would need the server to do it and then the user to download from the server, and the generated SVG files are 1.8MB each. The offline version would be a single 2MB download and saved maps would appear instantly on the users desktop. --Aaaarg 16:11, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


Okay, since I updated last, Apollo has been taken out of alpha, and renamed as Adobe AIR - you can download it here.
Once you have Adobe AIR installed, you can download the app here.
I have tested on both OS X and windows, so hopefully it should install smoothly. This version allows users to save the generated maps in SVG and PNG form.
Suggestions? What features are missing? A key/legend generator? Try it and tell me what you think!
Also, how should I go about getting this application known on wikipedia?.
--Aaaarg 07:24, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Its working really well with the CIA files now! But when I installed it, there was an error message when I went to save the file:

Error #2044: Unhandled IOErrorEvent:. text=Error #2038: File I/O Error. at flash.filesystem::File$/flash.filesystem:File::getFile()[C:\Documents and Settings\acrorel\Local Settings\Temp\aslibc-28157\File.as:1540] at flash.filesystem::File$/get desktopDirectory()[C:\Documents and Settings\acrorel\Local Settings\Temp\aslibc-28157\File.as:705] at GunnMap/::savePNG() at GunnMap/___GunnMap_Button1_click()

I think the best way to get it known would be to include maps made with the program in the articles, and link to it in the image description. There are pages on Template:Lists of countries without maps which could use them. Also you need to make clear you would allow them to be licenced as GFDL/CC/public domain (if this is what you want). --Astrokey44 08:36, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, that's an odd error. I haven't been able to reproduce it here, but I've come up with something that might fix it. http://gunn.co.nz/map/gunnmap.air now has the new version. If there are more problems, then perhaps e-mailing the would be a better idea? My address is at the bottom right of the app. Thanks for your help! --Aaaarg 09:25, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


Hi! I have just uploaded a newer version of the program, it's available at http://gunn.co.nz/map/GunnMap.air. It has some significant improvements - a much more attractive colour mixing method, and the ability to add a key (look for the "Show Key/Legend" checkbox) and then manually edit it.
There will likely be a few bugs left, and the interface needs some improvement, however, I think that the quality of the maps it produces are good enough now to start adding them to wikipedia.
My plan now is to do as Astrokey44 suggested, and add maps to the pages on Template:Lists of countries without any. I'm going to add them in PNG form, because the key/legend does not get added to the SVGs yet. I've decided to standardise on 1600x728 pixels. I'm planning on licensing the images under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 license, and also making a custom template, to be use in conjunction with the standard wikipedia CC one. Does this all sound sensible? Thanks. --Aaaarg 08:19, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I've just updated the online version as well - http://gunn.co.nz/map, it now has all the functionality of the offline version, except for being able to actually save the files. I have also uploaded a screenshot of the online application in action here: http://gunn.co.nz/map/screenshot.png --Aaaarg 10:29, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Wow!! It works perfectly. I mean that is just f*ing brilliant! The SVG files even work in inkscape, with it keeping the country groups together. --Astrokey44 09:54, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Just a quick update. I have added some options to give more control over the key. I have also modified it so that the SVGs that get produced will display in more viewers, and display in the right proportions on wikipedia.

[edit] Request for comment, protected areas in Tanzania

I'd like some comments and suggestions for this map of protected areas in Tanzania

. Are there any major reserves missing and does anybody have a map of the Mnazi-Bay Ruvumba marine park (marked by a circle up to now)? Regards Bamse 09:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help on map

Good day. I need help on creating an SVG map. I'm using Inkscape and I am trying to use Google Maps or Windows Live Maps where I want to create a road map map of New York City. I'd like to receive assistance on this. Thanks. –Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 19:31, 3 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Request for map of Virginia Tech location

I made this map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Blacksburg.png

and it is pretty bad and it was suggested that I come here to request a better one! It is used on all the pages with the Virginia Tech Shootings template. I hear you guys are good at this stuff. That one was only made to be an accurate placeholder map until a better one came along. Thanks!!--Daveblack 20:02, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


Done. The file name is Virginiatechmap.svg ... Now it has to go on all the pages, right? — Michael J 01:24, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, I went ahead and added it. Kmusser 13:13, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks so much! Looks great.--Daveblack 11:57, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Commons Standardisation

Is anybody aware that a similar map-standardisation project is going on at the commons? See the project page and the project talk page. Perhaps it will be of some use. --Dave the Rave (DTR)talk 14:18, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Region defined by coordinates

I have a description of a region that is defined by a list of coordinates corresponding to the vertices of the region. I want to overlay this boundary onto a map. What tools are available for me to do this? Sancho 19:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Maps showing the history of countries

Wikipedia currently uses this category name: Category:History maps by country.

The equivalent Wikimedia commons category uses this name:

I suggest using the commons name on both wikipedia and the commons. Because the commons also has this category:

It would be too confusing to use a wikipedia version with this name:

  • Category:Old history maps by country.

So I suggest changing the wikipedia name from Category:History maps by country to Category:Maps showing the history of countries. That category is empty now.

I thought I would ask here before going to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion. --Timeshifter 10:14, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fill-in maps of political subdivisions of a U.S. county

I am looking for a set of maps of the political subdivisions of Delaware County, Pennsylvania-- specifically, I am looking for a set of maps that are of the style shown to the right, but that have a particular political subdivision (township, boro or city) highlighted. The special challenge in this county is that there are enclaves and exclaves all over the place: see the lower right. Also, the source maps in the links to the right use dotted lines to denote census areas as distinct from political subdivisions, and I wouldn't want these to appear on the map at all.

I don't know how to make my own maps. Can anyone help? Spikebrennan 21:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Would this be ok? I could make a series of these --Astrokey44 03:51, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Looks excellent, but I have a couple of corrections and cautionary notes. See link at here. (the linked map is referred to below as the "External Reference Map"). Specifically:

(1) On your map, the triangular area south of Ridley Park (southeastern part of the map, happens to contain a shield for US Route 13 on the External Reference Map) is actually part of Ridley Township. Ridley Township should kind of snake around Ridley Park on the north, west and south.

(2) On your map, just north of Ridley Park, you have the small municipality of Rutledge separated from Morton and Springfield by what appears to be a very small, long thin area that is separated from Ridley Township and all of the other adjacent areas. That area is actually part of Ridley Township, as the External Reference Map shows: Rutledge should be surrounded by Ridley Township except for the northern corner of Rutledge, which is adjacent to Morton.

(3) On the reference map, Colwyn and part of Darby Township are two separate municipalities that are adjacent to each other. They abut Delaware County's eastern border, north of Tinicum (in Delaware County's southeast corner). On your map, you do not have a line dividing them.

(4) You still have dotted lines around some but not all of the county's external boundary. I would suggest making this a solid line all around.

(5) Some things that are not yet implicated on your map but that you should be aware of if you produce a set of individual maps for the various municipalities:

Millbourne (the smallest municipality in Delaware County; along the county's eastern border and adjacent to Upper Darby) is a distinct municipality. You have it properly distinct from Upper Darby on your map, but be careful not to accidentally merge it with Upper Darby or delete it.
Upper Darby has an exclave, south of Lansdowne (labeled "U.D." on the External Reference Map).
Darby Township (southeastern part of the county) is divided into two non-contiguous areas (both are labeled "Darby Twp." on the External Reference Map).
Springfield Township (center of the county) has an exclave-- it is the small area southeast of Swarthmore, adjacent to Nether Providence and to Ridley Township. This is just south of the circular "320" highway shield on the External Reference Map.
The small area northwest of Rose Valley (west of the circular "252" highway shield on the External Reference Map) is not a separate municipality, it is contiguous to and is part of Nether Providence Township.

With all of these complexities, I would guess that you are beginning to see why these maps would be helpful in the articles for the various municipalities. The work that you've done thus far is marvelous. Spikebrennan 13:34, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

yes they are really complicated. I have updated it based on these suggestions, except that I left the dotted boundary at the bottom which keeps the state border distinguished from the county. Is this correct now? --Astrokey44 15:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Wow, stunning work. Spikebrennan 18:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Political boundary shape files?

Does anyone know where I can get free or low cost shape files describing the political boundaries of every country on Earth at ~1 km scale? Preferably the boundaries should be not more than a few years old and easily exportable to lat/long pairs for the application I have in mind. Dragons flight 02:46, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

here, administrative boundaries by continent - it's in a shapefile, I don't know how easily exportable it is. It's current except for Montenegro (which I end up drawing in on my maps). Kmusser 13:02, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Important links on Style and Standards !

  <STyx 16:54, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Togo-Ghana border

So, where is the border supposed to be? Anyone?
So, where is the border supposed to be? Anyone?

Sadalmelik suggested that I bring this question here to WikiProject Maps.

I recently made an OMC map of Togo for the Geography of Togo article and noticed, while consulting other maps, including those already in the article, that there seems to be a disagreement over the alignment of the border between Togo and Ghana. The question is about the land inside an oxbow found at 9°38′N 0°18′E (see map).

OMC shows this as part of Togo, as do the relief map in the article and the CIA map in the main Togo article, but GoogleEarth says that it's part of Ghana, with the border cutting across the neck of that bit of territory. This is also what the satellite image shows. GoogleEarth also says that there is a village there called Butoe. Is it Ghanaian or Togolese?

Would anyone happen to know whether this represents an ongoing territorial dispute between Togo and Ghana, or perhaps a recent border change agreement? Or is it simply a mistake made by a mapmaker somewhere? I would appreciate any light that anyone could shed on this question, as I would like to adjust the OMC map accordingly. Also, if one of those political situations that I mentioned actually is the case, I think the Togo and Ghana articles should mention it.

Thanks. Kelisi 23:37, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

My highly unscientific google survey for "Butoe Ghana" and "Butoe Togo", suggest that it is in Ghana. Dragons flight 00:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I've just had a look at the fallingrain site myself, and it has Butoe listed under Ghana, but the closeup map there shows it in Togo! Kelisi 20:18, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I looked, but can't really help you as I found plenty of maps showing the border either way. Kmusser 13:43, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps the best solution would be to submit the question to Ghanian and Togolese consulates in your country, asking for a verification, and seeing if the answers come out different. :) --Golbez 07:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Projection to use for U.S. County highlight maps...

I am currently considering reworking the Colorado county maps so that they will be colored similar to Image:Map_of_USA_CO.svg (keeping the SVG format). There seem to be a couple of projections in use, and I am wondering which one would be preferred for this application. Current U.S. County locator maps use a azimuthal equidistant projection (such as Image:Map_of_Colorado_counties,_blank.svg which was based on a similar projection from nationalatlas.gov), whereas locator maps being designed for use with automatic placement of pins based on lat/long coords use a mercator projection (such as Image:Colorado_Locator_Map.PNG based on a similar projection from census.gov). Do map editors have a suggestion as to which would be most appropriate in this circumstance? I am also going to post this to {{Infobox U.S. County}}. --MattWright (talk) 04:38, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure that it matters too much. From looking around, it seems that it usually is just the map creator's preference. I thought that usually the maps used with automatic placement locator maps just used unprojected lat/lon for ease of projection, but I could easily be wrong. Miller is also a decent projection that doesn't look quite as distorted as Mercator. - Marvin01 | talk 07:46, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Maps "move" to a Forum shaped "Map Lab"

Hello, I'm the former leader of the several succesful Graphic Labs (fr ; de ; en ; es), I come here to encourage you strongly to improve your project into a Forum shaped "Map Lab", like the french map-maker team did. It appeared in our french wiki that a Graphic Forum is really more friendly, and so, encourage both graphists to join the project and commons users to ask some maps creation.

Really, please, move on to such Graphic Forum page.

If you do so, please don't forget to make a redirect from Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Maps toward your new "Map Lab".

Yug (talk) 18:16, 24 August 2007 (UTC) hoping sincerly this move, for the good of Wikipedia.

[edit] Miss Teen USA

Now that Miss Colorado has won Miss Teen USA, could somebody please update Image:Missteenusawinnersmap.jpg and Image:Missteenusatop5map.JPG? Corvus cornix 23:13, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Do we know where on the map to place Miss Teen South Carolina? (SEWilco 23:48, 27 August 2007 (UTC))
I personally believe that as a SC Carolinian the location on the map would be the South Carolina such as. Sancho 00:08, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't understand, are you from South Africa, or the Iraq such as? --Golbez 07:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Target-shaped maps

Upon noticing that the Dutch Wikipedia has added a page on Drexel-Alvernon, Arizona, I decided to see what it was like. This page, nl:Drexel-Alvernon (Arizona), has an interesting map of the Tucson area: Image:Blank map.svg, with wikilinked dots on it for the relative position of communities. The image is widely used in the Dutch WP, but not at all in English. Would this be useful? Nyttend 03:32, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Ooh, that's interesting. It's basically a graphical replacement to what we have on a lot of articles, showing the next towns to the north, south, etc. With some refinement (keeping names from overlapping) it could be useful. Shame about the size, though... --Golbez 04:53, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] OpenStreetMap Mediawiki plugin

I think this is still a proposal (i.e. suffers from a lack of implementation), but may be worth linking to this page: ...?

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/MediaWiki_plugin

Regards, Ojw 19:13, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] location maps

I think that maps used for country locations on continents other than Europe are quite poor. I was wondering if anyone was working on it? Like creating template blank flags or something similar. For an example Ukraine vs. Malaysia representation.

--Avala 23:46, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

There is a very long discussion about this, now archived at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Countries/Archive9, I didn't see any consensus emerge out of that on what should be done. Kmusser 00:02, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Definitely not throw it into the archives. There is no need for so much discussion on Europe locations maps as it is only details but rather on really outdated style maps used for other continents. Avala 00:35, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Other maps are out there. For example, Indonesia:
At the moment there is no corresponding map for Malaysia. A rather comprehensive list of currently-available maps is at commons:User:Ramiy/Location Maps - 52 Pickup (deal) 17:49, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] First map, want some feedback

I recently uploaded this map, and it said that it would be better as an svg, so I tried to make an svg (the result is on the right) and I have tried to follow pretty closely the suggestions for map colours list on top. I was wondering if anyone here has any suggestions on how to make it better. Thanks.

vid 08:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I think it looks good. Only changes I suggest is that it's common to label water features in italics, and I'd label the Kaministiquia River as well. Kmusser 12:50, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I italicized the water body labels (Tahoma won't italicize without being bold so I switched them to Arial); The Kam river was labelled, it used a text-along-a-path thing, and the word seemed to disappear when it was scaled down so much. I made it straight and angled to follow the river fairly closely. vid 22:56, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Looks good to go to me. Kmusser 23:03, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice. :) vid 23:18, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I think it looks great. For a first map, it's outstanding. Suggestions could include:
  • Put the "Thunder Bay" title on a slant or somehow show that it applies to the entire expanse of water shown on the map (it does, doesn't it?). Right now, it's just too cramped in my opinion.
  • Insert a mini-map that helps folks unfamiliar with Thunder Bay to locate it within Canada or the Great lakes (e.g. I myself didn't know whether it was on Lake Superior or Lake Huron).
  • Add it to as many articles as you can (that don't already have a map), even if they are not about Thunder Bay wards.
Congrats! Now, what's your next map?? MapMaster 03:42, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


Moving on to my next project, I've developed a colour scheme and want some feedback, especially if you are colour blind or have an LCD monitor. See: User:Vidioman/Maps. Thanks. vıdıoman (talk • contribs) 05:01, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I've re-drawn the Thunder Bay Ward Map, simplifying it. I didn't like how it looked so cluttered. I will be adding more to the original map in the future for other uses. For more see User:Vidioman/Maps. vıdıoman (talk • contribs) 11:28, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GRIDA

Hi

Not sure if you cartographers know about this - but this may be a useful website from UNEP. Andeggs 09:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Provinces of the Netherlands imagemap

Not sure if anyone is still watching this space, but if anyone has some time to help me out, I would like to edit Template:Provinces of the Netherlands imagemap in such a way that it fits better with the current table on Netherlands - make it smaller, to summarise things. User:Krator (t c) 23:24, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Geolinks-coord Issues

The Geolinks and mapit templates may be superseded by recent changes in the coord template which provide a list of mapping services when the geographical coordinate is clicked on. Please participate in the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Geographical_coordinates#Geolinks-coord_Issues. (SEWilco 17:42, 17 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Need help creating an imagemap

Please look at this discussion:

I would like a new imagemap template created using this 36 kilobyte map:

Modeled after this imagemap template using a 73 kilobyte map:

if possible could you guys try Image:China_political_division.gif as well, as a possible alternative to Image:China provinces.png. thanks nat Alo! Salut! Sunt eu, un haiduc?!?! 23:21, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
PD vs GFDL/CC-BY-SA? ¦ Reisio 03:22, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
I am not familiar with why one copyright tag would be chosen over the other. I guess as long as the imagemap template ends up being a free image that can be uploaded to the commons, then that is my preference for choosing. --Timeshifter 15:50, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cartography Lab proposal from Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals

Description 
This would be a complement to the Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Images to improve, specifically in the creation of maps for the undermapped articles, listed by the hundreds at Category:Wikipedia requested maps
Interested Wikipedians (please add your name)
  1. Chris 06:18, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Comments
Rock on! Thank you! Do I archive this discussion or just remove it? Chris 21:38, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I'd remove it, myself, as you indicate there already exists a project dealing with the subject area. John Carter 15:35, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
And perhaps mention the other project in the Talk pages of each as a suggestion that they might be of interest to each other...or of interest to someone looking for the right project for a task. (SEWilco 15:38, 16 October 2007 (UTC))
Silly me, but I can't see to find the proposal. Can someone add a specific link?? MapMaster 16:25, 24 October 2007 (UTC) Oh, I see, it has been removed. That is good, since we don't really need TWO projects dealing with maps. MapMaster 16:32, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wilsonian Armenia map improvement

Article(s): Wilsonian Armenia

Request: Please lighten water/age staining; darken map details for legibility; and/or convert to a modern graphic map. -- Chris 20:59, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Graphist opinion:

[edit] Mars surface ages

Article(s): Geology of Mars

Request: The "pic of the day" brought me to this monster. I don't know what all can be done, it is the same size at the original NASA site, but I figure you guys might have ideas. -- Chris 21:11, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The undefined problems include its being "‎ (432 × 357 pixels, file size: 120 KB, MIME type: image/jpeg)" and thus the labels are hard to read. I don't know if the color scheme is following some standard, but at the very least it needs to be relabeled. -- SEWilco (talk) 03:56, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Graphist opinion:

[edit] Proposed deletion: Ebstorf Map

Resolved.

Ebstorf Map (via WP:PROD on 2007-11-07) Kept

--User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 12:21, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
updated --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you expand on that? It doesn't appear to be prodded. vıdıoman (talk • contribs) 03:07, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

The article was expanded and de-prodded by User:Kmusser earlier today. Kuru talk 03:29, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation. :) vıdıoman (talk • contribs) 03:52, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Map request

Could someone make a map similar to Image:Yugo template.png? An editor of Hungarian Wikipedia told me he needs a map similar to this, but one that doesn't include Slovenia, Macedonia and Kosovo, but includes only Croatia, Serbia (without Kosovo), Montenegro, Bosnia & Herzegovina; and without the inner borders between the countries. – Alensha talk 15:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help create a manual of style for maps and diagrams

Right now it seems that Wikipedia provides no guidance on the best practices for creating maps and diagrams. These types of images are rapidly proliferating on Wikipedia. In fact, the Wikimedia Foundation has just started a grant program to pay illustrators to add new diagrams to articles in need. It would be nice if most of these additions followed similar styles and conventions instead of continually reinventing the wheel (with various degrees of success). Although I don't believe Wikipedia needs to enforce one particular style on all maps and diagram, there are some helpful conventions that I think we should put into writing somewhere. Wikipedia:Image use policy doesn't seem like the appropriate place for this, so I've decided to be bold and create a proposed Manual of Style page for maps and diagrams. Right now it is mostly blank as I would like to know what suggestions the Wikipedia community has to offer. Feel free to hop over there and edit it to your heart's content or add ideas to the talk page. Thanks! Kaldari 01:25, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

First of all, the grant specifically does not include maps in its scope, so this WikiProject is not affected by it.
Second, I propose that the formulation of mapping standards/guidelines be moved to the commons:Commons:Project Mapmaking Wiki Standards. This is a Wikimedia-wide proposal to adopt a common mapmaking standard and was initiated by the cartographers from the French Wikipedia. --seav 01:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Kaldari wrote: "In fact, the Wikimedia Foundation has just started a grant program to pay illustrators to add new diagrams to articles in need." Are there some links to info about this? I want to learn how to create charts and graphs. Maybe the grant will help pay for some tutorial pages. You know the saying about giving a fish versus teaching someone how to fish... --Timeshifter 07:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
The grant project page can be found at Meta: meta:Philip_Greenspun_illustration_project --seav 07:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
thanks. --Timeshifter 00:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Music map of the United States

  • A long time ago, I created a map (see it at Image:USmusicmap.png), a rudimentary attempt at creating something greater, primarily for Music of the United States. I think someone who actually had some experience with image-manipulation, even if not map-making specifically, could make a great map. I could provide all the information necessary to make something very detailed (which I know would be less useful for a Wikipedia article, since you'd have to zoom in to see anything, but would still be interesting to look at, and could even make for a dorm room poster) with symbols showing everything from cities with notable blues scenes to the home of acclaimed symphony orchestras. If possible, maps showing a subset of this information could be used for articles like Latin music in the United States. Is anybody willing to do the image work if I do the research work? Tuf-Kat (talk) 04:41, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Parts of maps

If a large map (or any image) is available, you can put a thumbnail of it in an article. Some template magic (which I don't understand) creates a nicely shrunk version of it and serves this with the article.

Would it be possible to get similar magic to pull out a rectangular subsection of a map in a similar way, and serve that? For instance, if someone is writing an article about Waldeck-Pyrmont, and wants a map, but the best map they can find is a several-Mb image of the whole of Germany, they might like to select a piece of it to present in the article, without having to download and edit the image themselves.

Ok, what I am getting at is this:

  1. does such a template already exist? I have failed to find one, but I don't know where/how to look
  2. if it doesn't exist, would it be possible, and useful, to create one?

Maproom (talk) 23:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

A bit old now, but I will try to answer: No it doesn't exist, no it is not possible to create one. I can see how one could be created using a transparent div element, with overflow:hidden; position:relative; , but the user would still be downloading the whole image/thumbnail, so this would have limited use. The reason a template can't really be made is because none of the available template syntax allows us to influence the manner in which the wiki software creates a thumbnail. Jackaranga (talk) 00:31, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I Would Like to Start Making Maps

Hey guys, I’ve spent the past couple of days trying to learn how to make maps, and honestly, it hasn’t been going well. It seems like every program I download to help me is one of the following:

  • Dependant on large files (I have a slow internet connection).
  • Extremely clunky and un-user-friendly.
  • Requires coding.
  • Makes maps that don’t show what I want (it shows highways or topography, etc.)
  • Doesn’t have an installer (wtf?).
  • Doesn’t produce good looking results.

So, I’ve come here sort of out of desperation. My goal is to make reasonably good looking maps that demonstrate the locations where fossils of different types of prehistoric animals have been found. I need the map to look reasonably good at small dimensions, as well. To do this I need to know:

  • What are some good freeware programs (preferably small file size) that are useful for map making?
  • What file type should I use? What do I need to know about editing/creating SVGs?
  • Good map generators or templates (I've seen the ones here at wiki)?
  • What (free) font should I use to label things?
  • Any good free symbols and map markers to use?

And is there any other advice, or help you could give a complete cartographical noob? Thanks for your time. :D

--Abyssal leviathin (talk) 16:02, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
I think most of your questions are answered on the main page — Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps#Tools.2C_templates.2C_and_sources. I personally wouldn't use text labels for raster images, because they make modification and internationalization more difficult... unless you also upload source files (XCF, etc.) for editing the text, in which case the font choice won't matter. Commons probably has plenty of symbols to use. ¦ Reisio (talk) 02:15, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. You and Kmusser have been really helpful. I do, have another quick question, though. Is there any place where I could request the creation of custom map markers? Like a jumble of bones for dinosaur articles, or a coiled shell for ammonites? That would really make my maps more thematically self-coherent. Thanks again, guys. :D --Abyssal leviathin (talk) 03:00, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Here or Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Images to improve, I'd say. ¦ Reisio (talk) 07:03, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Also see Splashdown (spacecraft landing) in the External links section is a "Map of all coordinates" box which lets you zoom in on locations. The scale becomes less relevant for global markers when zooming is available. -- SEWilco (talk) 17:52, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A map for every year.

A couple of us have come up with a revolutionary idea for year articles. We thought it would be better if every year article was an actual article instead of a list of events. We made an example: 1345. I made the map of Asia for it (though I must admit I'm a novice and it's not that great), and I think it would be wonderful if every year article had a map of the world (or at least of Europe and Asia) on it. This would especially be important for the earlier years, like 1345. Then everyone could see what the world looked like in each year. I've noticed there are already some cool maps like this, for example Image:East-Hem 900ad.jpg.

Anyway, please feel free to add to the discussion on whether we should turn year articles into prose. -Tea and crumpets (t c) 03:09, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Or pick a range of years; if the world's borders didn't change from 1345 to 1355, we don't need 11 different maps, one will do. I agree with this (which is why I created my evolution suite of articles) --Golbez (talk) 04:11, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Looks good. Another trick we found was that borders didn't stay the same within the year. Sometimes not even remotely. Albania, for example, was wiped off the map in 1345. Sukhotai became Siam, the Turks and Byzantines were at odds and constantly exchanged territory, etc, etc. It's a real trick deciding what you're going to show on the map and what you're not. Wrad (talk) 07:17, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
How about this: Color sections that changed since the previous map one color, and color sections that changed during the year in another color, with a footnote in the map explaining it. --Golbez (talk) 19:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
A similar idea was suggested awhile ago for all the Sovereign states by year articles as well and I think the same maps could be used for both. There are a handful of these already done, such as Image:World 820.png. Kmusser (talk) 14:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Mid-bad idea !!!
It will be un-manageable to keep the places clean and on the topic. The One map by year project is unfeasable and will be lisleading : not enough sources, how to correct mistakes ? check data ? etc.
I love History of China, but I should admit than the diference between 633 and 634 is : NOTHING (or almost) allowing to make an article now.
I encourage you drop the "every" and to focus you on some famous years : 1453, 1492, and recent years (post 1700?: especially 1763, 1783, 1811, 1814, 1830, 1848...) where a great work can be done.
220.135.4.212 (talk) 16:59, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
PS: if you want see the amazing work that it's to make year-by-year maps, look at the AMAZING work of user:Talessman which use his wikipedia user_talk_page only to get high quality feedback (user talk:Talessman) allowing him to SLOWLY walk in this NEVER DONE task.
220.135.4.212 (talk) 17:04, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] University of Oklahoma map

Article(s): University of Oklahoma, and possibly Norman, Oklahoma and other University related articles

Request: -- I'm hoping somebody with graphic design skills can create a map in either PNG or SVG similar to Image:MSU campus map.png for the University of Oklahoma. It would actually be two separate maps, one for the main campus and one for the south campus.

On Google Maps, this link shows the main campus which is already grayed. For the south campus, this map shows the area and it would be from E. Constitution on the north to Hwy 9 on the south and Jenkins on the west to Dewey on the east.

I would be happy to answer any further answers if needed.↔NMajdan•talk 21:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Graphist opinion:

[edit] Guidance: map of flight routes

I'm doing research on an article about the various flight routes that people took from German-occupied Norway to neutral Sweden during World War II. Ideally, this should be done on a map that showed the geographical features (mountains, valleys, lakes, rivers) for the various sections where the escapes occured; and that I could plot the routes point by point. If someone could point me to the right resources to figure out how to do all this, I'd be appreciative. I'll check back here, but also feel free to respond on my talk page. --Leifern (talk) 18:57, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] possible errors on map

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/9/9e/20080201221317%21Submarine_cables.png

linked from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable

1) several lines beginning on the US west coast end at the left side of the map when they should probably continue to Japan and Asia from the right side of the map. For example http://www.telegeography.com/products/map_cable/index.php this map does have the lines terminate in Asia instead of in the Pacific Ocean.

2) one red and one blue line leave from the Denmark/Netherlands area and terminate in the North Atlantic (undersea cables usually terminate at population centers)

3) red represent active cables, blue represent inactive cables but there is no key for the green line between Australia and Tasmania

4) no key explaining the meaning of the dark red line in Alaska

5) the dark red line in Alaska. Undersea cables are usually undersea not above ground.

6) there is no key for the gray dashed lines from the US to China and also seen in the Caribbean

I attempted to address these issues with the author but I was either too unclear or he preferred building strawmen and ignoring questions. I hope these issues can be dealt with or explained.

previous discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rarelibra&direction=prev&oldid=188434665#Map_of_submarine_cables_throughout_the_world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:74.139.185.198#Sub_cable_map 74.139.185.198 (talk) 03:18, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] City maps - Brussels European Quarter

Hi, I know this is a tad more complex than most but I was wondering if anyone was willing to look into creating a map of the European Quarter in Brussels for Brussels and the European Union. I've been trying to do it myself basing the street layout on Google maps and overlaying the locations from here but my graphics skills aren't any where good enough for something this complex. Just trying to get the outline of Parliament here ended in me producing something akin to a kids painting. If anyone is interested, please contact me on my talk page, I'd be most grateful. Thanks. - J Logan t: 21:44, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The sources you mention are copyrighted so we couldn't use them unfortunately. Jackaranga (talk) 14:13, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How to tag unreferenced maps?

See my post at Template_talk:Fact#Version_for_maps.3F. Comments much appreciated.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 23:15, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Second Punic War

I want to draw a map of the troop movements and battles of the second Punic War with gimp. for this I need crossed swords (if possible a blue and a red set) without background and a map of the whole Mediterranean (including Gades in Spain and Pergamon in Turkey, northern Italy and northern Africa) to show the complete range of naval and land operations. Does anyone have an idea where I can find this material on commons or with a free licence? Wandalstouring (talk) 19:17, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

What sort of output do you need?? I can put something like this together in Inkscape, which supports *.svg and *.png. Let me know, MapMaster (talk) 01:54, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
That sounds fine, I will create some crude maps on Sunday and present them here. Afterwards you can use them for your better maps. Wandalstouring (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 09:43, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
It takes me another week, the sources seem not clear on Hannibal's route in Italy. Wandalstouring (talk) 19:23, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I got so far(218BC-213BC). Black crosses are battles, green borders and red Roman movement and blue Carthaginian movement. The Carthaginian movement in northern Italy isn't clear(take one solution, I will try to clarify this issue). The Green area in northern Italy around the Po valley is Gaul, half of which become insurgent with the arrival of Hannibal(the northern tribes are loyal to Rome, the southern tribes rebel). Thanks for turning it into a decent map. Wandalstouring (talk) 10:01, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for feedback

North Island, Houtman Abrolhos
North Island, Houtman Abrolhos

Hi folks,

Can I get some informed feedback on Image:North Island (Houtman Abrolhos).svg. This is my first serious attempt at making a vector map, and my first use of Inkscape. I'd like to get this rather simple map right rather than carry on and make the same mistakes on more complicated maps.

Is it framed right? Is there too much information?

Are the colours right? Would the infrastructure be better in black rather than grey?

Are the text labels okay? Is the font appropriate? Is the font size right?

I've italicised common nouns like lighthouse but left proper names unitalicised. Is this acceptable, or have I unknowingly violated some mapping convention?

"Shag Rock", "North Point", "South Point" and "Northwest Hill" are common but not gazetted names - does putting them in quotes work? Should non-gazetted names appear at all?

Should the island itself be labelled, or can that be taken for granted? Should the surrounding water bodies be labelled?

Is trig acceptable, or must I write trig station or trig point?

Would the hills and lighthouse be better represented by icons rather than dots?

Should I convert the text to strokes?

Hesperian 11:49, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I think it looks great, only changes I'd make is I would expand trig to trig station, and I think the quotes look a little awkward. I'd take the quotes out and just list which names are non-gazetted in the description. I don't think they need to be marked differently on the map. Kmusser (talk) 13:24, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Looks very good. I'd also leave out the quotes. Some more suggestions:
  1. Make paths (coastlines, etc) smooth (mark object->"Edit path nodes or control handles" (F2) -> mark all nodes (Ctrl a) -> "Make selected nodes smooth") and simplify the jetties, especially the one on the top
  2. Add a map showing the location with respect to Australia since most readers (at least me) would have difficulties locating the Island on a world map. An example of what I mean can be found here.
  3. Add a label for the water body
  4. Find better placements for the labels
  5. Maybe crop the whole map a little on the top, right and bottom to make distances to the boundaries equal
  • "salt lake" is too close to the lake
  • Labels crossing coastlines don't look good. Put them either on land or the sea.
  • Try to align labels such that the top-left (or bottom-left, top-right, top-left) corner of the label is pointing at the object in question. Top-center or Bottom-center (as in "salt lake") is also fine, but Mid-left/Mid-right (as in "Record Hill") don't look as good IMHO.
Bamse (talk) 02:12, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks guys. I have made a number of changes in response to Kmusser, and others on my talk page. I will have a crack at Bamse' comments over the next day or so. Hesperian 02:18, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] SVG help needed

Hello everyone. I'm working on svg conversion of my Image:Rzeczpospolita 1920.png (well, AAMoF I'm recreating it). So far I was fairly successful and the new map (Image:Rzeczpospolita 1939.svg) started to look nice. However, I recently added texts to it and all of a sudden the map stopped showing when I uploaded a new version to Commons.

At first I used the standard Arial font, then gave the default one a try - to no avail. The map doesn't show on the image page, nor does it resize properly in articles. Any idea what might have went wrong? Any suggestions? //Halibutt 22:26, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the text problem is a bug. You could try converting the text to stroke (or shapes, or whatever it's called in the svg editor you're using) and upload it like that, but it can make the file larger and impedes translation or updating. (ie, if you made a mistake, you have to re-write an entire section of text to replace it.)
When I have this problem, I just export the .svg as a .png and upload the .png instead. It isn't as convenient as the .svg but as long as the .svg exists, it can be updated easily. :/ vıdıoman 22:48, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, but I already have the map in .png, now I'm making it in .svg. Why waste 2 days + only to end up in the very same place I used to be three years ago (made the original map in 2005)? //Halibutt 23:27, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
As long as you have the .svg version, you'll retain the easy customizability that you don't have with a .png. If you want to avoid .png, then make the text into shapes, or wait until someone more experiences gives us a solution to this problem. vıdıoman 23:32, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Strangely, if you click through the image, the full size SVG renders just fine. The problem appears to be occurring with MediaWiki's attempt to thumb it down. Whether that is MediaWiki's fault or your file's fault, I can't say. Hesperian 23:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Image:Image-Rzeczpospolita 1939 reload.svg

.

The problem was/is that there is some "artifact" in the file that Wikipedia cannot render. I don't know what it is/was and I can't find it. However, I moved everything except that artifact over to this file. You should be able to take it from here. Madman (talk) 04:34, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Madman, you're my hero :) I can't tell what's missing in the version you uploaded, which means the artifact was not needed. Or perhaps it were the layers? Layers make the work easier, but it seems MediaWiki has problems rendering them properly. BTW, what software are you using for svg graphics? //Halibutt 08:43, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Glad to help, Halibutt. I use good ol' Inkscape, but I'm far from an expert. In fact, I don't even know how to use "layers". What I did do was to delete your groups from the svg, one by one, and upload what was left. I found that even after I had deleted every visible group, the svg still would not render correctly. So I opened a new svg and started copying the groups over to it, one by one, uploading each version until I had finally moved them all, and the last upload still rendered properly.
I'm not sure what that "artifact" was. But I guess I don't care.  : ) Have fun! Madman (talk) 12:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Jeez, that must've been a hell of work, thanks! BTW, any ideas as to what might have went wrong with this one? //Halibutt 11:58, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong Inner German border

In this picture the border between East and West Germany in this image is not at all where it should be, see Inner German border. It is just some kind of circle segment. West Berlin ist also misssing (i.e. a part of East Germany).

I contacted the author twice (see User talk:Bože pravde#Wrong Inner German border and commons:User talk:Bože pravde#Wrong Inner German border), but he is not reacting. Can anyone help please? --Abe Lincoln (talk) 08:54, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I fixed the border, I didn't add West Berlin as it would just be a dot at that scale. Kmusser (talk) 12:50, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. --Abe Lincoln (talk) 13:28, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Something amiss in Scotland

A conversation about the current maps used to represent the constituent countries has been started at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_UK_geography#Something_amiss_in_Scotland. This discussion is hopefully to resolve issues that have been raised and to try to set a standard within the UK. For all those that wish to comment on this, your input is requested. Thank-you :-) -- UKPhoenix79 (talk) 00:46, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Map symbols for lighthouse?

I am considering drawing a map (SVG of course!) of an island located in the Stockholm archipelago. This island has a lighthouse. Does anybody know what symbol to use? Please, help me! --Astor Piazzolla (talk) 11:11, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

I typically see lighthouses depicted on maps like this. The spot is the location of the light house, and the cone part is the "light"; it should point out to the water. You could also go with a simple drawing of a lighthouse itself, and just place that on the map. (That image was made by me; if you want an SVG version I can give you one. :)) vıdıoman 11:38, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your fast reply... However, not meaning to be ungrateful, I still am interested in using other symbols, like this, where the pentagon stars symbolize the lighthouses, or the older Swedish (?) symbol looking more like a light bulb. Do you think I could use such symbols? Or are there any other wiki maps with lighthouse symbols? --Astor Piazzolla (talk) 12:03, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
If those are familiar to Swedes, then you could probably use them. You could add a legend that would explain what they are, as well. You could probably use any symbol as long as it was explained in a legend. vıdıoman 13:07, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for valuable advice. I will try to use this symbol, it seems to be the current official Swedish lighthouse symbol. I will add the legend to the map! --Astor Piazzolla (talk) 15:50, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Maps for the constituent countries in the UK

I have created the above maps. I hope you all don't mind that I was WP:BOLD and added them to the relative articles myself. I really don't want to create any edit wars I just want to see what others think and hopefully bring this to a nice consensus on what to use. I hate the idea that other countries seam to be more organized then us with these things, so I hope you think the new one looks professional... I'm actually kinda pleased :-) Please voice your opinion over at Talk:Scotland#Straw_Poll I know I'd personally love to hear your opinions! Thanks -- UKPhoenix79 (talk) 05:11, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

It looks good. The all-Europe map can be used for the United Kingdom as a whole but I think this is good enough for the constituent countries. The maps for American states don't show all of North America, likewise for Canada's provinces. vıdıoman 10:07, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Looks good. The style is similar to the U.S. states, the French regions, the Thai provinces, the Philippine provinces, and other similar maps. --seav (talk) 12:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
what was the source data used? There are not many initial sources that are free - looking at your colours I am guess you've used MapInfo to create these (I may be wrong, but MapInfo and ArcMap tend to favour certain colour schemes by default) So you must have loaded the initial vector data from somewhere - we need to cite that source and establish that it is free - otherwise the OS lawyers could say it is derived from OS data and therefore © to them. --C Hawke (talk) 15:31, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
UKPhoenix79 can speak up for himself if I'm wrong, but based on which lakes are included it looks like it was ultimately derived from the CIA Factbook maps. The colors are the standardized colors suggested by this project. Kmusser (talk) 16:29, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
and are they free re-use? Sorry if I sound paranoid, but this is my day job, ensuring maps produced by my organization meet ©--C Hawke (talk) 18:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, CIA is part of the U.S. government and all U.S. government publications are in the public domain.Kmusser (talk) 18:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Coordinates frequently show up on top of the line under page title

See Dospat Dam for an example. Isn't there a way to ensure that they stay in an appropriate position? e.g., above the line - or below the line, but not running through the line?? -- Martha (talk) 04:06, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Problem is currently being discussed at Template_talk:Coord. Kmusser (talk) 04:53, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Advice on this map?

This is my first attempt at a map, made by combining a satellite photo with an orthogonal map. However the horizontal scale is visibly different on the two. Is it "fair" to stretch the satellite photo to match the scale of the orthogonal map?! If so, is there a (relatively) simple way I can be sure I am doing it accurately? Or, could I somehow make the satellite map orthogonal? Any suggestions will be welcome. — Martha (talk) 07:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

If you have details on the projection information for both the image and the map it would be possible to make them match using GIS software - assuming you're not that lucky you can just stretch one or the other to match using something like Photoshop as long as you have landmarks that you can clearly identify on both in order to line them up. Kmusser (talk) 14:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
So, not being "that lucky"....using the coordinates on (this map, plus the original two maps, should enable me to adjust the satellite image manually, and then recreate what I have here? But why would a satellite image be out-of-proportion? Foreshortening in the photograph maybe? (you can tell I am NOT a caratographer!) — Martha (talk) 18:38, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, and they're probably just two different map projections, all maps are distorted in some direction - it looks like that image has already been orthorectified so it's probably not something in the image itself. Anyway the process of manually adjusting images to match is called rubbersheeting in cartography, so if want more info google rubbersheeting and maps or GIS. Kmusser (talk) 13:25, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

What you'll see here now is a complete re-make of the map. I think it's an improvement. I tinkered with the scaling of the photo, using the blank orthogonal map as a reference point (I realize that's not terribly precise, but I do tend to be terribly careful, so I don't think it was a bad job - actually it only seemed to need a little vertical stretching (so why did the original LOOK so bad? maybe because the photo needs more sensitive correcting - all I could take into account were the extreme N-S-E-W points). Then, instead of referring my segment to the orthogonal map, I simply cut it out of the original (adjusted) photo, cleaned up so you can see the outline of the country, and reduced that to an appropriate size. I rather like this myself - do you experienced folk have an opinion? Once it's "good enough" I plan to move the image to Commons, and put it on the Dospat Dam page. -- Martha (talk) 22:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] reproducing maps

hi, would it be possible to get someone to reproduce the map at the extreme bottom of this page? -maps.blog.com.mk/ at the extreme bottom.


i was having some trouble with the copyrighting system usec by wikipeida. if anyone has any sugesstions or help it would be greatly appreciated.

P m kocovski (talk) 07:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I located the original of this map, [here]. It was made by a Polish gentleman named Wojtek - why don't you try to contact him about using it? He gives code for embedding it, however that's different from making it copyright-free. You wouldn't be able to use it on Wikipedia unless it's copyright free, but probably elsewhere? I'm a bit confused about that too, but if you join Wikimedia Commons and try uploading something there - you don't actually have to complete an upload, but I discovered that if you select any of the licensing options they offer, you will be able to SEE what it puts up, and I found that very helpful. — Martha (talk) 22:27, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I will try to upload the picture but if not would it be possible for someone to reproduce the map? Oh and by the way map you found is different to the map i found (see north greece, south-west bulgaria), just for clarification reasons. thank you P m kocovski (talk) 00:56, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Just a comment - of course it's not the same as the original. The original version was not a propaganda one. It looks like a pretty scientific work - which cannot be said for the Bloggy one. I hope you're not going to put on wiki the false one, or are you? --Laveol T 01:14, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What's wrong?

Image:Metro warszawskie.svg
50px

Any ideas as to what might have went wrong with this one on the right? When clicked, the image shows just fine, but it does not scale down nor does it show up well in thumbnails. There's no layers in that image, nor is there any grouped objects - yet it does not show up well... Any ideas? //Halibutt 11:58, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. Use the "vacuum defs" option in Inkscape to remove unused code. I did this then saved as plain SVG and reopened the file in Inkscape. This revealed that the red ring was on top of the yellow. The red ring didn't have a fill-rule specified which meant that it used the default value nonzero which just meas that it looks like a filled disc. problem was solved either by moving the red ring so that it lies underneath the yellow (which I did) or to specify fill-rule:evenodd for the red ring. /Lokal_Profil 13:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! //Halibutt 18:00, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Licensing of maps

One problem that I've found is in the incompatibility between the GFDL and the CC licenses. The main problem occurs if I want to create a Vector map based on say a GFDL licensed original and a CC licensed original. The problem then is that I'm not technichally allowed to make a derivative at all. Obviously we can't force anyone to license their maps under a specific license and everyone tends to have their own preference. Still it would be good if the issue was raised and discussed. I know that dual licensing is possible but what I (and I'm guessing a lot of others with me) don't know is how dual licenseing would affect the by-sa part of a cc-by-sa license. /Lokal_Profil 13:14, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

There's no problem. What dual-licensing means is that you are free to choose between the two--GFDL or CC--when you use or derive from the original. You don't have to follow both. --seav (talk) 23:16, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
No, that is a problem. If you create a Vector map based on a GFDL licensed original and a CC licensed original, and release it under a dual license, then you've released a GFDL derivative under CC without permission, and a CC derivative under GFDL without permission. I don't think there is a solution to this situation except to ask one or both licence holders to consider releasing their material under another licence. The one time I tried this I got immediate satisfaction.[2][3] Hesperian 23:57, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Ah wait, I misunderstood the problem. I thought that Profil wanted to create a derivative of a single map that is dual licensed. I guess it's supposed to be that he wants to create a single derivative map from two different original maps that are differently licensed. In the second case, I agree that the derivative can't be created since the derivative can't satisfy both of the original licenses. --seav (talk) 15:42, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Well it was actually a bit of both. The general problem is the incompatibility of the licenses. on way to get around that would be to recommend map creators to dual-license their images (or PD-license them). here the second question comes in. If I definitly want my images to be under a by-sa type license (i.e. I qant atteribution and share alike to be required) then how hollowed out will this part bee by dual licensing the image with a GFDL license? If I understood things right GFDL has a built in share-alike requirement (basically every derivative of a GFDL object must also be GFDL) but does GFDL have any attribution requirement built in? /Lokal_Profil 16:35, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I think modifications to a dual-licensed image can be created under the same dual licensing, as the alterations can be viewed as being done under both licenses and modifications are being licensed in parallel (thus the licenses don't cross-conflict due to modification under the 'other' license). An image which is dual licensed under GFDL and attribution-required can lose the attribution license in copies which are forked out under only the GFDL; I think a copy can be made under only the GFDL. It's inherent in dual licensing that the licenses can stand alone of each other. -- SEWilco (talk) 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
GFDL has attribution and share-alike built-in. Remember that GFDL requires that you (the deriver) provide a list of the authors of the original work. That sounds like attribution to me. --seav (talk) 02:02, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] general-use Pacific-centered SVG world map

horribly skewed attempt from Commons

colorful one from Commons

this type of map is needed

Start SVG

180E

162E

Article(s):

Request: There's not really a good general-use Pacific-centered SVG world map on the 'pedia. Anyone up to the challenge? -- Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 18:54, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Graphist opinion:

That image is copyrighted according to the text in the corner. I don't think we'd be allowed to trace it? vıdıoman 20:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

The image is copyrighted, the shape of the continents cannot be. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 20:18, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, but I don't think it counts? We'll need an expert to clear this up. vıdıoman 20:18, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Another user has taken on the base challenge of SVGifying, is anyone else up to making this one square instead of the original elliptic, with Africa all one piece, as the Atlantic-centered one is not split thus? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 20:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
There exists a is a python script specifically designed to modify Image:BlankMap-World6.svg. Amongst other thing it can rotate the map. I'll see what I can do, which longitude line should be in the center? /Lokal_Profil 21:30, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
It won't be an exact match, just as Greenwich is not really the center of Image:BlankMap-World6.svg. But if you were to use the International Date Line, that would be close. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 21:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
If a set it to 180 then I get a map similar to the leftmost one above, i.e. Africa split into two parts. I'll try around and see if I can get something which keeps Africa intact, Island will probably suffer though. /Lokal_Profil 22:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Both options now available. One at 180E and one which keeps Africa intact at 162E. /Lokal_Profil 22:25, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Any way to make this a rectangle projection, and leave a whole Iceland on the side with Europe? Thanks! Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 07:44, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright of maps

In response to the issue of tracing copyrighted maps raised above, I would like to clear this up once and for all.

Short answer: Kintetsubuffalo is correct, and well said: "The image is copyrighted, the shape of the continents cannot be."

Long answer:

With text, copyright applies not to the concepts expressed, but to the words used to express the concepts. The same is true for maps. Copyright applies not to the geographic concepts underlying the map, but to the symbology used to represent those concepts.

The shape of land-forms, the position of roads, the location of towns, the extent of vegetation - all of these are geographical concepts that are represented by the map, and therefore cannot be copyrighted. You are free to trace a copyrighted map, satellite image or photograph, in order to obtain this information.

However, you may not take from a copyrighted map its layout, its colour scheme, its icons, its extent, its text placement, its fonts, its line styles, its line thicknesses, its legend, its compass ross, etc. These graphical components of the map are the result of a creative process by the cartographer, and subject to copyright. On these points, you must make your own decisions, thus representing the underlying geographical data in your own way.

If you are working in SVG, it is pretty easy to comply with these rules. Step One: Capture the geographic information by tracing the map using a very fine black line stroke. Step Two: Put the copyrighted map out of your sight, and make your own independent decisions on how to adjust your fill and stroke properties.

Hesperian 03:21, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

That could be contested. If, for example, the original map maker omitted certain small islands in a creative process of simplifying the map and you copied the same, then you could be infringing on the original map's copyright. Same goes for the curvature of the shapes of linear features (in certain maps). If you copy the exact same corner points in a curve, then you could also be infringing on the map's copyright. Additionally, there's the problem of copyright easter eggs. In a nutshell, tracing over a copyrighted map is not as simple as it seems copyright-wise. --seav (talk) 04:37, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I agree with all your points. Another issue is that the act of tracing implies the acceptance of the original map's projection, which is another creative decision that ought to be taken independently. And another issue is that of necessarily misplaced features; for example at small scales it is impossible to accurately represent a road running alongside a railway line; the distance between these two features must be exaggerated in order to make the map readable.
The principle remains, I think we agree, that only the representation is copyrightable, not the geographical data being represented. Hesperian 04:44, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I guess we agree. But it should be very clear what is creative representation and what is uncopyrightable fact. So I think that we should still caution against blindly tracing over a copyrighted map unless the tracer knows exactly what to copy and what not to copy. --seav (talk) 05:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

"Step One: Capture the geographic information by tracing the map using a very fine black line stroke." Sorry, but if you do that to anything produced by the UK's Ordnance Survey you will be breaking their © and liable to be chased by their department they have specifically for this task - any such maps can only be published with their permission and citation, in this case it would contain the wording "derived from" - believe me they take this seriously, I have seen official presentations from them, showing the lengths people go to to get around it and how OS have proven that a finished map, however simplified, was derived from their data.--C Hawke (talk) 11:58, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

You're preaching to the converted mate; we've already been through this. Hesperian 12:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
not so much preaching, just highlighting the fact that OS WILL pursue those using its IP - there are many maps on UK entries that I am pretty sure are OS derived, as I know of no free sources of such info. --C Hawke (talk) 12:20, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
One should also keep in mind that the UK extends copyright more or less based on the effort of creation, and not strictly based on creativity. They are one of the most liberal jurisdictions for doing this, and it implies the OS can assert copyright (at least within the UK) over many things that would be considered uncopyrightable facts in the US. Dragons flight (talk) 12:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

This analysis is on shaky grounds, I think. While it is true no one can "copyright" the shape of a country or a continent, tracing a map is making a derivative work of that map, and only the original copyright holder has that right under U.S. copyright law. Courts have ruled differently on this matter in the past, so there is no one hard and fast answer to what consititutes a copyrighted "original" map. See [4]. If you create a reproduction of a map using the original data sources or other public sources, you aren't copying it. But tracing the map would be considered copying and an infringement of the owner's copyright. A circuit court in Oregon ruled (1882), for example, that merely changing the scale or color of a map is infrining on the copyright (Chapman v. Ferry). Even OpenStreetMap.org states its own page that it does not permit people to "use" a copyrighted map (Google Maps, printed maps, or satellite images) in any way when editing a map on their site, including tracing it. They consider this "copying." Since OpenStreetMap has similar requirements to Wikipedia when it comes to "free (as in speech)" content, I would say that such tracing and copying should not be permitted here. Just my two cents.Dcmacnut (talk) 17:45, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, whilst the shape of the continents isn't copyrighted, it's possible that the mapping company's representation of the shape of the continents might be. It's very unlikely that you'll be able to represent the shape of a continent exactly on a map - you will usually have to make certain concessions (e.g. slightly reduced complexity). Also, it may be necessary to move certain features slightly to ensure that the map remains legible and that all of the features are visible. Surely that would mean that *some* creativity has gone into creating the map. It's not a facsimile of what's on the ground. Richard B (talk) 21:14, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
It should be noted that OpenStreetMap does trace over satellite imagery from Yahoo! Maps since Yahoo! Maps gave permission. I'm actually wondering if Yahoo! is permitted to do that since most of its worldwide satellite imagery is licensed from GeoEye; I'm not sure GeoEye and other providers' licenses permit third-party (i.e., OSM) reuse. --seav (talk) 22:11, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Typically a satellite imagery provider will license a set of rights to its clients (e.g. Yahoo). These rights may include "derivation rights" and the ability to sublicense said rights. The Yahoo/OSM agreement has been cleared by Yahoo's lawyers and has been visible without problems for a good while now. --ChaRleyTroniC (talk) 14:36, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] First map, comments please

Just uploaded my first map, in svg and png, any comments welcome. My svg is plain, not inkscape and I've converted the text into paths - but it still doesn't render properly. Can you point out where I'm going wrong? Ki | jog 22:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe I've fixed the rendering problems with your map. There were some hidden/invisible artifacts within the map. I located and deleted them in Inkscape using the TAB function. It should render properly now (although make sure to clear your browser cache, which may retain the old version).
Regarding the map, I think it is excellent -- surely this cannot be your first attempt at a map. Keep up the good work, Madman (talk) 22:01, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
In response to your posting at Commons, KVJ, I don't know what you did to create those black boxes. They are caused by invisible or hidden objects within the file. I really don't know how much more than that about them -- I'm by no means an SVG (Inkscape) expert -- but it's a problem I've run up against in my limited map work and I want to help others fix them. I'm glad to help, Madman (talk) 01:04, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I believe the black boxes are caused by SVG <marker> tags, as well as flowed text. MediaWiki currently cannot render either; see Commons:Transition to SVG#Limitations. The easiest solution is to convert the markers to paths, and the flowed text to regular text (with Text->Convert to Text) or paths. Unfortunately, both make the file harder to edit. Superm401 - Talk 00:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
As long as it's mentioned in the revision history any edits can be made to the revision before the text was converted to paths. /Lokal_Profil 10:43, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Linear Route maps

Inspired by the excellent article Johnson Creek (Willamette River) (soon to be a featured article), I've devised a method for using Template:Wide image to make photo maps of urban creeks. See my "methods" document and two sample maps at User:Northwesterner1/photomaps. Feedback welcome! Northwesterner1 (talk) 07:29, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copyedit templates related to maps

Do we have inline templates that could be added to maps, noting that they don't have a source, may be ORish or non-neutral? Template:Fact lists several inline templates, but they are for texts, not maps/pictures/captions.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 22:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I support this demand. Templates for texts are not appropriate to question maps as they only refer to the discriptions, not the maps themselves. --ThePiedCow (talk) 16:32, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree, although I believe the template should go on the Image page and the Image page is usually on Commons, so I believe we need to take the discusson there. MapMaster (talk) 23:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Maps in building infoboxes

I am contemplating placing maps in building & structure infoboxes. Should this be standard?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 14:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Clicking on the city or the co-ordinate info isn't enough? In most cases they would likely have to be street level maps. vıdıoman 20:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Partition of Czechoslovakia

Hi, I was hoping for a good map of the partition of Czechoslovakia in 1938-9. Unfortunately, this image is the best wikipedia has to offer at the moment. These other images online [5] [6] [7] are what I'm looking for. Preferably the last of the three.

This image is the most accurate vector graphic we have of pre-ww2 Czechoslovakia.

I just spent 2 hours installing and trying to figure out inkscape and I have nothing to show for it. Can anyone help? - TheMightyQuill (talk) 13:31, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

What problems are you having? There is a learning curve associated with Inkscape, but it is surmountable. MapMaster (talk) 00:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I imported the SVG blank map of modern europe, and I understand how that works, but I'm not sure where to go from there. Freehand drawing the borders with the touchpad on my laptop is not really practical. I tried importing the jpgs/gifs above and overlaying the maps, but I can't make them match up properly. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 16:30, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

One of the first things that surprised (and frustrated) me was that if I superimposed two maps of the same place, they would just not line up. It's likely because of different projections, mapmaker quirks, and general weirdness.
Yes, it would be hard to do fine movements using a touchpad. What you may want to do in that case is to zoom in (using the minus key), which should give you finer control. MapMaster (talk) 01:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I decided to start small and just create a good svg of the first republic. How's this for starters? (Old one below) - TheMightyQuill (talk) 00:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC) I've also reinserted it into the blank map of europe. If anyone wants to combine efforts and make an blank interwar map of europe, it might be a useful project. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 00:26, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I made the partition map, and things went fairly well, except that, once uploaded, the arrow heads didn't show up and the "Rus" moved left. Any suggestions for improvement? - TheMightyQuill (talk) 16:11, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

To get the arrow heads to show up, just place a triangle over the area instead. Those little things you can add to the ends of lines in inkscape are always buggy, I never use them. vıdıoman 21:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Done. Thanks. And it turns out using the space bar to centre text doesn't work as well as using the text format centre function. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 22:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes; I find that Inkscape can render text funny, even in common fonts like Arial and Tahoma. You should check the map in other browsers to make sure it's functioning correctly for everyone; use the safe mode for Firefox and Internet Explorer 7. vıdıoman 01:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Great work with the map, though I thought I should drop a line that the borders at Image:First Czechoslovak Republic.SVG are heavily erroneous. You've corrected the German-Polish border on your map but I am very confident the USSR didn't share a border with Czechoslovakia at that point, a mistake which you've kept on your map. Still a great map! +Hexagon1 (t) 04:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Battle of Yarmouk

Would you think that the attached map serves its purpose well? The article on the Battle of Yarmouk had the most ugliest (I have even told the author that and we laugh about it) battle maps so I decided to come up with a map detailing a 3-dimensional terrain. I haven't seen any such map on Wikipedia that details a battle formation in 3-dimensions.

Why I submit the map here is to gather feedback on maps of this sort in particular and if there is anything this map is lacking. I have put days and nights into making an SVG version of a live terrain just so that I can modify it whenever I need to. And please do take a look at the article to tell me if the maps do justice. Thanks and God bless. Arun Reginald (talk · contribs) 02:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

First, let me say that you have a real flair for design. Here is my critique of this specific map, which is colored by my desire to provide clean and clear information to our readers:
  • While these sort of 3D perspective maps are interesting, I don't believe that they are worth the investment. Three-dimension maps like this might be pretty, but are not nearly as precise or as easy to understand as those that use simple elevation lines on a flat map. See Battle of Gettysburg maps (which show elevation in this way) or my Image:Battle of the Gebora.svg.
Similarly, the icons representing the troops also seem to be 3D. I am not sure what benefit this has but it does make it more difficult to determine which is cavalry and which infantry.
The cleanest and clearest battle maps, for example those from West Point, are flat 2D maps.
  • The battle itself occupies only perhaps 25% - 30% of the area of this graphic. Why is there, for example, all that empty map space off to the left??
  • I am unsure why there should be a narrative built into the map itself. If the map is designed for Wikipedia, the narrative is redundant and could be confusing or misleading when used with the article itself, but the narrative is not sufficient in itself for anyone to understand the battle. Moreover, it would be more difficult to edit the narrative in the map than in the article. I note also that Wikipedia:MOS#Images_as_text discourages text within images.
  • The movement lines are, in some situations, puzzling: I would suggest arrowheads be used on them. And what do the dashed lines represent?
  • What do the different colors (dark green, light green, brown, tan) represent? It seems that dark brown is the lowest terrain and that the tan is non-horizontal terrain.
  • The map needs references.
I hope I have not discouraged you. MapMaster (talk) 23:11, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:PD-PCL

Template:PD-PCL has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. /Lokal_Profil 10:05, 3 June 2008 (UTC)