Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football (soccer) in Australia
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[edit] Archives
[edit] Proposal to expand WikiProject A-League
_in_Australia.png/125px-Football_(soccer)_in_Australia.png)
[edit] Spiel
In starting this project, one thing I didn't realise at the time was the relatively poor coverage of football in Australia before/outside the A-League. User:Blackmissionary mentioned a while ago that it would be good if WP:A-L was to include the NSL, and I would like to expand this idea to the whole of football in Australia. Whilst the same aim would be achieved by simply starting a new project, I think that ultimately a large proportion of people who would contribute to a new project would be the same as the current members of WP:A-L. It would also save the hassle of spreading discussion that apply to both projects so that all members could have their say. Everything currently included in WP:A-L would be included in the new project, and those members who wish to continue focusing solely on A-League articles could easily do so. Please note that the "Australia" reference is 100% not against any New Zealand Knights, Football Kingz, etc information being involved in the project – but tacking "and some New Zealand stuff" on the end of the project name would be a bit messy. I have created a more formal proposed project page here, and if the members here choose to support this idea, I will add it to the project proposals list. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 08:27, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Poll
[edit] Support
Support – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 08:27, 6 October 2006 (UTC)- Rebecca 01:11, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Daniel.Bryant 01:15, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- cj | talk 15:57, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Chuq 23:18, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Dibo 04:21, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Blackmissionary 00:04, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Kingutd 05:24, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- Mattythewhite 06:55, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- Hack 07:30, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- Tiefighter 10:16, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- Rakuten06 11:50, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- Fedgin 11:14, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
- Rossoneri3 (talk · contribs) Rossoneri3 01:25, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
- Boltonfan22 04:51, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Oppose
[edit] Neutral
[edit] Comments
- Love the picture! Daniel.Bryant 01:16, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- I think WikiProject Australian football (soccer) would be a better name for the expanded project (it's less cumbersome).--cj | talk 15:57, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- yeh I thought the same thing, but had a feeling AFL fans would not be too happy with us using "Australian football". I'll ask over at WikiProject AFL. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 01:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- I was thinking Wikipedia:WikiProject football (soccer) in Australia. Daniel.Bryant 01:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Well yeh that's what it stands as at the moment, but I agree with cj in that (1) it is a bit cumbersome, and (2) saying 'football in Australia' slightly implies we would be ignoring overseas Australian players. I guess we'll have to have another poll if this goes ahead. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 01:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Oh great I've caused more trouble than I solved. :D WikiProject Football (soccer) in Australia it is, unless there are any really serious objections. I'll stick it on the proposed projects list once ten people have supported or a week has passed (general guideline is at least six for a wikiproject I think, which we've got now). – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 06:33, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- I think WikiProject Australian football (soccer) is best, simple and uniform. The picture is awesome, bit of oldschool! Thanks AlbinoMonkey for remembering my idea and making it better! :) Blackmissionary 01:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- OK looks like we will need a poll of some kind after all. Tomorrow marks a week since I put this up, so I'll send out messages to those who haven't put in a vote for the project change, put it up on project proposals, then probably get the wheels rolling on the weekend. Cheers. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 05:53, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- I think WikiProject Australian football (soccer) is best, simple and uniform. The picture is awesome, bit of oldschool! Thanks AlbinoMonkey for remembering my idea and making it better! :) Blackmissionary 01:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- I was thinking Wikipedia:WikiProject football (soccer) in Australia. Daniel.Bryant 01:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- yeh I thought the same thing, but had a feeling AFL fans would not be too happy with us using "Australian football". I'll ask over at WikiProject AFL. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 01:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry been away for the weekend, and a bit bogged down with work for the next few days. Will get to it within the week, hopefully. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 11:20, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
- Final steps being put in motion now. Please vote in the poll below also – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 04:02, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Name choice
Seems a name is not immediately obvious, so just sign under which one you think is best (add another if you wish; add your name to more than one if you want). Give it about a week.
[edit] WikiProject Football (soccer) in Australia
- – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 04:02, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- – Hack 04:37, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- – Blackmissionary 07:12, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- – Chuq 08:01, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- – Daniel.Bryant 23:55, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- – Fedgin 11:13, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
- – Rakuten06 12:12, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
- – Rossoneri3 Rossoneri3 01:26, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
- – Boltonfan22 03:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] WikiProject Australian football (soccer)
- Kingutd 05:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] WikiProject Soccer in Australia
[edit] WikiProject Australian soccer
Emelly fuentes Emelly fuentes Emelly Fuentes Emelly fuentes Emelly fuentes
Emelly fuente Emelly fuentes Emelly fuentes Emelly fuentes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.40.58.178 (talk) 16:18, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Football (soccer) in Australia templates
I have created three four templates, in the format as per the WP Football template standard:
{{AUS fb general}} {{AUS fb natteams}} {{AUS fb A-League}} {{AUS fb states}}
This are shown in use together with {{fb start}} and {{fb end}} here:
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National football teams of Australia
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Football by state/terrritory
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Of course it is possible to create more templates like this, for example on A-League you can see two of them in use with a third fb template. If people like them, I expect they will be added to relevant articles, ie. A-League related articles (seasons, clubs, etc) will have {{AUS fb general}} and {{AUS fb A-League}}; state governing bodies and leagues will have {{AUS fb general}} and {{AUS fb states}}. Football (soccer) in Australia will probably be the only article to have all three four.
I'm guessing {{AUS fb A-League}} will replace {{A-League teamlist}}, if there aren't any disagreements. -- Chuq 08:00, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
- Two disagreements, The a-league clubs names are not in alphabetical order and the young matildas are not in national teams.
Boltonfan22 07:34, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
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- And mens U23 should have Olyroos next to them. Boltonfan22 07:37, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
- Should there be an entry for Northern New South Wales under leagues and state governing bodies? They are separate from Soccer NSW and are a constituent federation of the FFA...--Hack 08:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
- Fixed, fixed, fixed and fixed :P Anything else? I noticed the templates were tested on some other pages but were removed afterwards. Is it because (in the above example) the CCM template didn't fit? Do people agree with modifying the club templates to this format? -- Chuq 11:46, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
- When i was testing the templates, I noticed the "disagreements" and i thought i better get them fixed before i placed the templates back on the CCM pages. The CCM template was fine. Boltonfan22 06:38, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
- No problem. I think the general one should be split off into a "general" (FFA, SA, A-L, NSL links) and a "national teams" one. All Australian football articles should have {{AUS fb general}}, but articles on state football, state gov bodies, and state leagues do not need links to the Olyroos, Young Matildas, Joeys etc. -- Chuq 01:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
- Done - what do people think? It would be feasible to also create one for each state, and one for each A-League team. I don't think this would be excess - because most articles would only have 2 or 3. For example:
- Football (soccer) in Victoria would have {{AUS fb general}}, {{AUS fb states}}, {{AUS fb state Vic}}
- Central Coast Mariners would have {{AUS fb general}}, {{AUS fb A-League}}, {{AUS fb A-League CCM}}
- In these examples:
- {{AUS fb state Vic}} would have the same links as the "Vic" row of {{AUS fb states}}, plus links to the VPL and VSLD1 teams.
- {{AUS fb A-League CCM}} would link to the existing team-by-season articles, as well as the stadium, coach, captain (and maybe the rest of the squad, is this over the top?). Such a template could also be placed on, say, Lawrie McKinna (coach) or Noel Spencer (captain), although there aren't any other football templates (of the same style) on those pages. -- Chuq 01:44, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
- Done - what do people think? It would be feasible to also create one for each state, and one for each A-League team. I don't think this would be excess - because most articles would only have 2 or 3. For example:
- The CC Mariners page already has the squad list and year by year templates (as do most teams) so maybe we could just join them together and make them the same colour and size etc. That may be easier. Boltonfan22 02:53, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
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- Well, I haven't included the squad yet, but check out the Central Coast Mariners page to see how it looks. -- Chuq 06:14, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
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- I think {{AUS fb A-League CCM}} should be yellow. but the rest is great. Good work Chuq Boltonfan22 23:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Delete old templates?
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- Glad to see the templates are popular :) The colours look great too. Are people OK with me deleting {{QRSeasonTemplate}} and so on, since they aren't in use anymore? -- Chuq 23:26, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
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- Yep. Consider them tagged as {{db-author}}, as I'm the creater and sole editor of them :D. For ease of deletion, the links down the side of User:Daniel.Bryant/A-LeagueSeasonTemplate are to the templates. Cheers, Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 05:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
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- I made sure there were no transclusions, and had them deleted. Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 08:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Move to Wikipedia:WikiProject Football (soccer) in Australia
I've made the first steps on the expansion to WP:Football in Aus, the new project page is linked above. I'm currently working on the assessment and improving the A-League player project, it would be great if anyone could help with the following:
- Populating the related pages list (nb generally don't list redirect pages - the idea of the list is to watch related changes to actual articles)
- Creating a to-do list, and adding a few tasks to the open tasks template.
- Creating a templates list of all templates related to the project.
- Creating an awards list of all awards related to the project.
- Find some way of archiving WikiProject A-League within the new project. See this for a list of this project's subpages (ignore the ones related to the player project... I'm redoing it a bit).
- Create redirects from here to the new project, also go through what links here and make relevant changes.
- Generally tidy up the new main page.
- Create a userbox for participants?
- Anything else you can think of...
It's a long list at the moment, any help or ideas would be much appreciated. Cheers – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 06:50, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Publicity
I think people should attempt to publicise the project on some forums and the like. I've already done The World Game Forum and the Victory forum. Blackmissionary 22:38, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Confirmation of nationalities
I'm about 90% sure I got them all right, however a number of the coaches had me diving around for refs, or in one case guessing. Anyways, can someone just double-check that all the nationalities are right for the captains and coaches in the following, please:-
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Cheers, Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 05:52, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
- they're all right... which one did you guess? – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 10:58, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Userbox
I quickly did up a userbox for this project, at User:Blackmissionary/FSIA. If people like it, someone more knowledgable can clean it up a little and add a category or whatever. Or If someone can make a better one, that'd be good too. Blackmissionary 23:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Season article naming
I've been meaning to suggest that the season articles be renamed to take the capital "S" out of season. I just hadn't got round to it because it wasn't that urgent :P Now that I've actually got around to it, are there any other changes to the naming format that people want to suggest? -- Chuq 05:45, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
- I agree. Move and leave redir, then fix all the templates. Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 21:11, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Anon user changing details
Does anyone know if this changes by User:155.143.126.14 are legit or not? Is there a good, updated external source we can check them against?-- Chuq 05:41, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't know but people who are deleting the height and years technical stuff ( m and –), (Socceroo and User:155.143.126.14) off player templates are really annoying me. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_Football_biography there still needed Boltonfan22 09:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Adelaide United infobox question
In pages such as John Kosmina and Richie Alagich the NSL and A League spent years spent at Adelaide United are separated, and i was wondering if this was part of a style guide, or just a someone's personal whim? I can't see why personally, seeing as it's the same team. Any objections if i fix these up? Blackmissionary 08:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
- They are the same club. Merge, I reckon. Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 08:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Although they are technically two distinct organisations the public perception is that they are the same club...--Hack 08:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
- How are they different organisations? Is this the Matt Carroll-esque 'every team is 2 years old' theory, or something else? Blackmissionary 08:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
My understanding is that the first organisation was wound up after the end of the NSL and the second was started at the time of their bidding for a place in the A-League. I will look into the details...--Hack 02:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Fair enough, i won't alter the relevant sections until further info comes up, however my preference is to treat them as the same club. Blackmissionary 03:30, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I'd personally prefer that for the purposes of player details that they were counted as the same club. An example would be Perth Glory who for business purposes are a different organisation to that which existed under the NSL. But for all intents and purposes it is the same football team. Similarly in an English context when Millwall (or any number of other clubs) became a PLC it did not mean the history of the club stopped...--Hack 07:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Agreed. Although slightly different, it'd be like considering two organisations "different" because they were bought out by someone else. Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 08:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Queensland Roar / Queensland Lions
Given all of this, are Queensland Roar and Brisbane Lions/Hollandia the same club?--Hack 01:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- Do Queensland Roar/Lions still operate senior teams in the Brisbane state leagues? If not, then i would consider them the same club, but if there can be found some evidence that it is a complete break from the previous incarnation(s), then we should follow that stance. Blackmissionary 02:04, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Qld Lions don't have a team in the senior comp any more. They still operate as a licenced club (ie gaming and entertainment) under that name, as well as a number of junior and women's teams. The Roar operate as Queensland Roar FC, but with essentially the same board composition... --Hack 02:28, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- And they wear the Dutch orange and Bleiberg was coach at Lions as well. I lean heavily to continuity on this one, unless someone calls up the Roar office and asks a few board members and finds out otherwise lol. It all sounds a bit like the way South Melbourne FC is a subsidiary of sorts of the South Melbourne Hellas Soccer Club, but still considered the same club, which is perhaps an indication of how we should treat the continuity issue. Blackmissionary 04:40, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
So the history of Hollandia/Lions would be put into the Roar article?--Hack 04:43, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- I would vote yes. Based as i said, on no senior men's team competing in the Brisbane leagues after the Roar's entry into the A League, similar financial backer in the Queensland Lions club, similar personnel at coaching, and perhaps at board level, and usage of Dutch orange when the obvious choice was for at least some maroon, using 'Roar' as a nickname, links from the qldlions site to Queensland Roar site. But let's see what some other people think as well. Blackmissionary 05:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment - the use of orange (based from Holland) was only a second choice. For some reason, their application to use maroon was blocked because it was too similar to Adelaide's red. Never mind the fact that there would be no colour clash, due to alternate kits... [My recollection is that the FFA blocked a maroon based jersey.]
[edit] Adelaide Sharks
This page currently redirects to the Adelaide 36ers page. There was an AFD where the consensus was that it links to the 36ers. Is there something we can do as the Adelaide Sharks as an NSL team are far more notable than a potential name for a basketball team. --Hack 03:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- I've deleted the redirect - replacing bodgy redirects with more notable articles really isn't much of an issue. Feel free to write a proper article. Rebecca 03:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'm doing the article now. It'll be a basic thing at first, just for a presence at least, and to add relevant redirects. Blackmissionary 03:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Article is at West Adelaide Soccer Club. Redirects from West Adelaide Hellas, Adelaide Sharks and West Adelaide SC are online, (thanks to Hack for the last one, even though it was created as an ultra stub) and hopefully i can get round to cleaning it up a little in the not too distant future. Blackmissionary 04:27, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- I am trying to find out if there is some sort of link between the Sharks and Adelaide Olympic. Also the Olympic website suggests they were formed 2000 but wikipedia says 1978. A touch confusing.--Hack 06:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmm, it appears from this Ozfootball page that they were founded in 1978 (and other articles have them playing in the SA leagues in the 1990's at least from a quick glance), so i would say from the info at hand, and from some anecdotal evidence, that ex-West Adelaide fans, following the demise of their club, jumped on the Olympic bandwagon, and there or may not have been a formal merger. We'll have to keep looking for a little while longer for the answer. Blackmissionary 06:33, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- I am trying to find out if there is some sort of link between the Sharks and Adelaide Olympic. Also the Olympic website suggests they were formed 2000 but wikipedia says 1978. A touch confusing.--Hack 06:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Article is at West Adelaide Soccer Club. Redirects from West Adelaide Hellas, Adelaide Sharks and West Adelaide SC are online, (thanks to Hack for the last one, even though it was created as an ultra stub) and hopefully i can get round to cleaning it up a little in the not too distant future. Blackmissionary 04:27, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'm doing the article now. It'll be a basic thing at first, just for a presence at least, and to add relevant redirects. Blackmissionary 03:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
From this link "West Adelaide went into liquidation and are gone, but their juniors merged with Olympians in the local league and are now called Adelaide Olympic. They have been successful being promoted to the premier league after 1 season (going unbeaten), and just recently lost in the premier league grand final in extra time." Hopefully that clears it up a little. Blackmissionary 06:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Central Coast Mariners FC...
...is the current football (soccer) collab. of the week. Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 05:43, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- Fantastic - I think we should use this opportunity to get it 100% and then use its format as a basis for the other A-League teams. -- Chuq 11:54, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Did we get anything done during this week. Basically only the 2 usuals added any info to the page (and i only added season-specific info). No one from Wikiproject Football did anything to the page. What did we get out of this collabortion besides some referencing.Boltonfan22 03:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
- A grand total of 0. I did the referencing, got some pictures with permission (that took all week), and rearranged some stuff. I must say, it was a giant flop. Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 03:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] More templates
Have a look at Football (soccer) in Victoria, you will see I have created another template for Victoria at {{AUS fb state Vic}} This includes links to FFV, VPL (& teams) and VSLD1 (& teams). Note it doesn't include Melbourne Victory as (AFAIK) MV doesn't come under FFV at all. If people like it I can do similar things for other states. -- Chuq 11:54, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
- Looks great, We can also add these to the governing body pages which have the old template on them.Boltonfan22 06:11, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, like them, especially the way in the Vic one where the leagues and teams are all there in one place. Blackmissionary 06:14, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] National Soccer League history section rewrite
I've done a substantial rewrite of the NSL article's history section. All interested parties are invited to make commments, suggestions etc. on that article's talk page, cheers Blackmissionary 00:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
- Good stuff. "One Fantastic Goal" is the only book that covers NSL history that I own at the moment, but I hope to find a few things in the near future. This article should be one of our top priorities IMO. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 13:06, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 2006 FIFA World Cup controversies
Given the Socceroos' large part in this article (v Japan; v Croatia; v Italy all mentioned), I feel that it call fall under this Wikiproject's scope. Thoughts? Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 05:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
- Addendum: v Brazil also has a section. Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 05:38, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
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- agreed, definetily part this project's scope. Blackmissionary 06:07, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Blue and white brigade and Australian Ultras
Are supporters groups worthy of an article in their own right? It seems that most football 'ultra' groups do not have their own page. This page is up for deletion so I was wondering what others thought about it... Hack 06:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
- Nope. Merge them into the #Supporters section of the team's article, and redirect. Similar thing happened with the Marinators and the CCMFC article. Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 06:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
- Seconded Blackmissionary 08:41, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Further to this all, it seems the Australian section of the Ultras page keeps getting vandalised - a number of people seem to be continually adding and deleting groups. Might be something to look out for... --Hack 08:22, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Footballer nationalities
Can someone run thru and check the contribs from this IP (Special:Contributions/144.132.5.112) - as I noted on User talk:144.132.5.112, nationalities aren't determined from where a player was born. I've reverted the change of Wayne O'Sullivan (an Irish international) to being a Cypriot, and I'd like someone to run thru and check the others - the edits from the 15th and 17th of this month specifically. Cheers, Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 11:06, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
So we are going by the national team they play for, or the nationality/nationalities they are? Either way this is a pretty controversial issue.Hack 09:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
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- If they have represented a country, then that country is their nationality. If they haven't, it's based on their passport ownership and heritage, which isn't all that easy to work out sometimes. Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 09:24, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
- On the basis of passport ownership Adrian Caceres, for example, would be Australian, English and Argentine. Also here's a whole bunch of Brazilian and Argentine players that have European passports to allow them to play in Europe. But in the end I agree that your criteria would make most sense... Hack 10:28, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
- If they have represented a country, then that country is their nationality. If they haven't, it's based on their passport ownership and heritage, which isn't all that easy to work out sometimes. Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 09:24, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 499 national team caps
The FFA has released a list of every player to appear for the senior mens' national team (there's 499 at the moment). Obviously there is not going to be a huge amount of info out there for a lot of the players, but there are a few notable names which are red links or stubs at the moment, so if you are looking for something to do, have a browse through this list and see if there are any you want to have a crack at. I hope to put all the names on the related pages list in the near future so we can see what's missing. Cheers. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 13:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Football in Australia - naming conventions
I would like to invite all interested editors to have a read of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Football in Australia) and offer improvements or suggestions on the talk page. Please do not comment about it on this page - I am hoping to centralise discussion in one place! -- Chuq 10:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Stablepedia
Beginning cross-post.
- See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team#Stablepedia. If you wish to comment, please comment there. ★MESSEDROCKER★ 02:30, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.
[edit] More on templates..
Going on from the discussion half way up the page, I have created state focused templates such as {{AUS fb state Vic}} and {{AUS fb state Tas}}:
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The templates are designed to be hierarchical - top-most one (usually {{AUS fb general}}) is the most general, the bottom one (usually the club or state template) being the most specific. I've noticed {{AUS fb states}} ...
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Football by state/terrritory
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... has been moved to the bottom of the templates on some articles, probably because it is big, bulky, and mostly not relevant to the state article (full of other states' governing bodies and leagues) - which is a fair reason. I suggest that once the other individual state templates are created, we can replace the {{AUS fb states}} template with something smaller such as:
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Football in Australia by state and territory
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.. and put it back above the state-specific template. Make sense? -- Chuq 02:17, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
- Seems fine to me. Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 02:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] NSL template
For perusal: {{AUS fb NSL}}
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- I'll wait until some season articles are actually written before adding them all
- I've only listed teams from the final season
- Since the AU, PG, NUJ and FK links point to the A-League AU, PG, NUJ and NZK articles; we should make sure those articles include details of the NSL era.
- I suggest the red-linked articles are actually written before we use the template anywhere.
-- Chuq 03:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
- Good work. Some questions though. Is the listing of teams only for the last season for demonstration purposes? For the season articles, where in the A-League version match reports are linked to official sites, how are we going to do the same thing? Just link to OzFootball? Agree with your final point though, but are you talking only about the records and list of champions, or everything including clubs not done yet? Blackmissionary 05:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
- I'm opening up suggestions to others on how we include the other teams - the box would be huge if we listed them all! I guess OzFootball is the closest to an official source that we have at the moment. IMO only the records, champions, and maybe the last 2-3 seasons should be written before implementing the template (or we can comment out those rows until they exist.) -- Chuq 06:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
- Hmm, fitting in all the teams neatly would be in the realms of the periodic table, not sure how to do it! But for list of champions, do we need a separate page? The A-League article has a link which leads to a section within the NSL article, and for what it's worth, i think that's good enough. Blackmissionary 09:35, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Perth Kangaroos and Darwin Cubs
These clubs never played in Australian national or state leagues, so how we do categorise in them in the project's related pages section? Blackmissionary 04:23, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
- also Australian Cup. Blackmissionary 08:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Jack Reilly article
I need some help from any experienced wikipedians here, as i'm not sure how to go about this. The Jack Reilly page has recently had another article inserted within it (on an american artist of the same name). Attempts to get the responsible editor to make a new, seperate page have failed (i think they are new, and haven't looked at the article talk page, or just ignored it), so could someone who knows how to sort this stuff out do just that? Blackmissionary 08:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
- I got this one covered. Normy132 08:56, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
-
- Thanks for that. I think i've got most of the links sorted/fixed as well. Blackmissionary 03:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 19:23, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Supporters Groups of Perth Glory
Somebody has deleted the supporters section of the Perth Glory page. I intended restoring but was just hoping to see what others thought of this first. It is being suggested that the fan groups are not notable. If this was some sort of consensus we should then be deleting reference in the Melbourne Victory page to such non-notable fans as the BWB and the Cove from the Sydney FC page.Hack 04:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
- In line with this discussion i think it's ok to restore it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blackmissionary (talk • contribs) 09:23, 16 January 2007 (UTC).
- Also the WP:Football club MOS lists the Supporters section in it - though Perth's (and other A-League ones) could do with a bit of a cleanup IMO. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 12:20, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] A-League 2007-08
Hey. I was just looking at this article and it says that there will be eight clubs in the competition for the season. If the New Zealand Knights have been discarded from the competition, shouldn't the number be seven clubs or an undecided number of clubs? Normy132 10:37, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
- As it is, there are still eight licenses and it appears quite likely that another New Zealand-based franchise will replace the Knights ([1]). I'd leave it at eight until they confirm that it won't be. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 11:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Hyuk-Su Seo / Seo Hyuk-Su
At the moment, there are two articles about this player. As I understand it (I'm no expert), Chinese and Korean names, though spoken as "<Given name> <Surname>" (Hyuk-Su Seo, Ji-Sung Park, Shengqing Qu) are supposed to be written "<Surname> <Given name>". In the A-League we have articles on Gao Leilei (<Surname> <Given name>), Zhang Yuning (<Sn> <Gn>), Qu Shengqing (<Sn> <Gn>), Zhang Xiaobin (<Sn> <Gn>), Tae-Yong Shin (<Gn> <Sn>) and then both versions for the Seo article. Unless anyone has any objections, when I get the chance I'll merge/redirect the Shin and Seo articles to their 'proper' places; just thought I'd mention this for the future. {{Chinese name}} or {{Korean name}} should also be placed at the top of the relevant articles. For the recently-recruited Knights player, I think his surname is Li and given name Yan, but I'm not completely sure (there is no article on him yet). – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 12:08, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] 2007-08 season.
For teams who are out of the finals (like CCM, PG etc) should we add the 2007-08 season pages now or wait for the end of the Grand Final? Boltonfan22 03:03, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
- A point that does need to be clarified is how the ACL is classified to a season. I am proposing (and have already done with Sydney FC) that the ACL is part of the same "season" of the A-League competition preceeding it. So that for article naming purposes:
- 2005-06 includes 2005 Preseason cup, A-League season 1, 2005 CWC
- 2006-07 includes 2006 cup, A-League Ver2, AFC Champions League 2007
- 2007-08 includes 2007 cup, A-League Ver3, AFC Champions League 2008
- Essentially the new "year" starts about June with the A-League competitions. Unless there's significant concerns for an alternative, I say continue with this structure. Tomperc 02:37, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
- IMO The details shouldn't be included in the season - they shuold have their own. The ACL comps have their own articles. I do recognise a need to link them though. The obvious way would be to link the ACL seasons with the regular season in which entry to it was "won". A-League 2005-06 -> AFC Champions League 2007. -- Chuq 03:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
- The best solution seems to be that each article 'refers' to the ACL comp, and then directs readers to the main article for details, particularly as it can relate to many seasons. So for the 2007 ACL, 05-06 would refer to qualification, 06-07 team articles would refer to teams continuing preparations, and should any Aussies get past the group stage, the 07-08 year would refer to the competition continuing (since quarter-finals are in September 07). Tomperc 02:18, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
- IMO The details shouldn't be included in the season - they shuold have their own. The ACL comps have their own articles. I do recognise a need to link them though. The obvious way would be to link the ACL seasons with the regular season in which entry to it was "won". A-League 2005-06 -> AFC Champions League 2007. -- Chuq 03:52, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Miscellaneous
Just a couple of things to bring to people's attention. People should take care with how they link to Peter Wilson's article as Peter Wilson (footballer) leads to an aussie rules player, whereas Peter Wilson (Australian soccer) is the correct one. Also i have created a redirect for Olyroos, use it or ignore it at your pleasure. Hooray for me. Blackmissionary 05:47, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Canberra football
New articles have been created for Football (soccer) in the Australian Capital Territory and Canberra City SC and a major expansion of Canberra Cosmos has been done - ready for review and inputs. Tomperc 04:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
There has been a partial merger of Capital Football into Football (soccer) in the Australian Capital Territory, keeping two articles. Capital Football remains to refer to the organisation alone. The competitions are now included in the ACT article. Tomperc 02:42, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Football in NSW
i have created the article Football (soccer) in New South Wales single-handely from scratch so i was looking for some reviews, input, critisicm, etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Santiago26 (talk • contribs) 10:00, 10 February 2007 (UTC).
- Hey sorry it's taken so long for someone to reply, but firstly I'd say thanks a heap for creating this article to start with; it was definitely a big gap missing in the project. I have a couple of suggestions: at the moment, the article is made up largely of small lists of competitions and clubs etc. It would be nice if this was changed more into sentence form describing the way the hierarchies work. Secondly, I think a history section is a must. The first organised match of football in Australia was played in Sydney, and many clubs from the Hunter/Newcastle region are some of the oldest in Australia. Finally, an overview of participation would be great. I can't find it at the moment, but there was a government study a few years ago with full stats for a whole heap of sports, and there is also the (annual?) Sweeney sports report which looks into interest/participation etc. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 13:26, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
- Just wanted to agree with Albinomonkey - thanks for that! Do you know much about Northern NSW Soccer / Northern NSW Football Federation? That is one of the more confusing things to me - why there are two federations for the state. IMO this shuold be explained in the article as well! -- Chuq 12:24, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the input, ill get too it. On the Northern NSW fed. i believe they coordinate all football activities int their region incl.a Premier League + Youth rep. leagues due to the impossible distances those in that region would have to make to play in the rep. leagues of SoccerNSW. i will cjheck this out further. i propose a new article on Northern NSW Fed + anoither article on Football (soccer) in Northern NSW. do you agree/disagree {Santiago26 23:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)}
- There is already an article Northern New South Wales Football. I think Football (soccer) in New South Wales should be about exactly that - all football activities over the whole state, both NNSWF and SNSW. By the way, I have created a new template:
|
|||||||||||||||||||
.. for all NSW related football articles. -- Chuq 04:11, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Hey sorry for the late reply been bogged down with schoolwork lately... I like the template - it was exactly what i was thinking... its how it should be. i will start incl. some of the northern nsw stuff into the football (soccer) in NSW article soon... I hope!
[edit] Team locator map
I'd appreciate it if people could give me their opinions on which of these maps look best? User:Chuq/Sandbox/Sports_maps -- Chuq 00:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
- I like II. Daniel Bryant 06:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- I like I. One problem New Zealand team is in Wellington now.Boltonfan22 06:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
-
- The current one in use at A-League#Clubs is kind of a combination of those two - and the Wellington one isn't a problem, as the coloured icons can be relocated by changing co-ordinates. -- Chuq 09:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] FAC FSIA's first ever FA!
As a FYI given we don't have a table like WP:WPF listing going-ons with articles, the Central Coast Mariners FC article is currently a featured candidate. You can view the current status of the nomination, and leave comments, at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Central Coast Mariners FC. Cheers, Daniel Bryant 06:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- Promoted! :) Daniel Bryant 22:02, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- As you can see from my recent contribs, I haven't had much time to work on things recently but I've been lurking and had to extend my congratulations to Daniel and everyone else who worked on this article. Hopefully it is the first of many. Well in. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 08:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
- Congratulations on achieving Featured Article Status. Blackmissionary 09:30, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
- As you can see from my recent contribs, I haven't had much time to work on things recently but I've been lurking and had to extend my congratulations to Daniel and everyone else who worked on this article. Hopefully it is the first of many. Well in. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 08:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Creation of WikiProject Football task forces
A proposal to reorganise all football related projects has been made here. Input from members of this project is wanted. – Elisson • T • C • 20:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] National Youth League
I can't seem to be able to find anything on the former National Youth League. Should this be a discrete article or part of the NSL page?--Hack 03:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Tough one. Probably a separate article, but it is a very hard topic to find info on i think. Even OzFootball doesn't seem to have much on it. Blackmissionary 05:17, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] More on templates
Yes this seems to be a never ending project.. not because it takes a long time, but because I'm lazy .. There are now "state" templates for Tas, Vic, NSW and Qld (named {{AUS fb state Qld}} and so on). Rather than modify all the team pages straight away, I have modified {{VPL Clubs}}, {{VSLD1 Clubs}}, {{NSWPL}}, {{NNSWSF SSL Clubs}}, {{BPL Clubs}} and {{BD1 Clubs}} to include the "AUS fb" style templates. This way they all look like the new format but without a lot of work! As you work on the pages for other reasons, please subst the templates (the six ones listed above, that is - not the "AUS fb" ones!) As an example I have done the BPL and BD1 ones. I will do the SA and WA ones next, but I'm not guaranteeing they will be done any time soon!
Also just a note - Football (soccer) in Queensland appears to redirect to Football Queensland. Someone knowledgeable may want to write a separate article! -- Chuq (talk) 13:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Should these state templates also make reference to lower leagues as well?Hack 02:35, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
- Most of them do - as navigational templates they should link to every article we have about a governing body, league or club based in that particular state. Anything that isn't notable enough for an article doesn't have a link, and therefore shouldn't need to be in the template. -- Chuq (talk) 05:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Userbox
I've just got this userbox created for this WikiProject.
_in_Australia.png/35px-Football_(soccer)_in_Australia.png){kind=small} |
This user is a member of WikiProject Football (soccer) in Australia. |
Mattythewhite 19:11, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Category:Australia international footballers
Does this need to be here? Surely it isn't necessary... --Hack 02:10, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Australia women's national under-20 football team
This team does not seem to compete at the hightest amateur level of competition (that would be the Olympic team) or professionally. Is there some other inclusion criteria I should be looking at before I take this article to AfD?
Thanks, Garrie 04:52, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
- It's a national team. They compete at the highest international level for women's under-20 football teams (i.e. FIFA U-20 Women's World Championship). [2] I can't even begin to imagine why you would think it would be deletion worthy! -- Chuq (talk) 07:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Template:AUS fb A-League CCM
I decided to merge the squad template into the main CCM template, and have this displayed on player pages who are currently in the squad. Thoughts? Daniel Bryant 04:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
- Looks great! By displaying on all player pages, you mean just the fb A-League CCM template, not the fb general, fb A-League etc, templates? If so, sounds perfect. (Naturally we should aim to do the same for the other clubs) -- Chuq (talk) 05:46, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, current players pages get {{AUS fb A-League CCM}} and that's it. I'll do the swapover tomorrow if no objections are raised. Daniel Bryant 06:17, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
- Of course, current players only. Otherwise Damian Mori would be more template than article! -- Chuq (talk) 06:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah...on that note, Mori has enough info on him to possibly become a pretty decent article *adds to list* Daniel Bryant 06:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
- Of course, current players only. Otherwise Damian Mori would be more template than article! -- Chuq (talk) 06:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
- All Sydney FC now done with Template:AUS fb A-League SFC (from Template:Sydney FC squad) - Tomperc 09:23, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, current players pages get {{AUS fb A-League CCM}} and that's it. I'll do the swapover tomorrow if no objections are raised. Daniel Bryant 06:17, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Another FLC
Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Queensland Roar FC players, for . If anyone has any appropriate pictures (players, groups of players etc.), can they please upload them? Cheers, Daniel 00:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Frank Farina
Hi, I rebuilt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Farina am about to request for feedback. If anyone has a picture of him (not a picture from a website, but something they have permission to use, even a picture they took themselves), it would add to the article. Thank you. I belive a section on his international playing career should be added, but I don't really have any stats on that.Macktheknifeau 16:29, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
- Can i just say well done on an awesome job on one of our most important articles! As for your question, the only stats site is i know of is ozfootball, but i could ask some people i know for particular stats if you need them, just ask and i'll see what i can do. Blackmissionary 23:51, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Category renaming
I have just noticed that the category "Australian football (soccer) players" has been renamed to "Australian soccer players" is the usual silly wikipedia way. The debate (or total lack of debate) is here. I cannot see any of the football editors commenting there. I strongly feel this renaming should be reversed. Anyone know how to do this?Tancred 20:59, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
- No idea how to change the decision. It's an absolute disgrace. Seems like almost no-one relevant (ie, people working on related articles) even knew it was up for discussion. Blackmissionary 23:06, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
- Further to that, I have left a message on The Wub's Talk Page, urging reopening of the discussion. It also appears that we are not alone in having a category changed without relevant editors knowing about it by this admin. Blackmissionary 23:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
- Disgraceful to say the very least. This should be reversed posthaste, given the amount of trouble we've gone to in the past to even get people to finally accept (or at least live with) the "football (soccer)" thing. A notice should've been placed here - the project banner is on the talk page and I can scarcely believe it could have gone unnoticed by the nominator. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 00:48, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
- Further to that, I have left a message on The Wub's Talk Page, urging reopening of the discussion. It also appears that we are not alone in having a category changed without relevant editors knowing about it by this admin. Blackmissionary 23:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
User:Kbdank71 says he only closed the discussion, and has said that User:Shalom was the one who suggested the change. Blackmissionary 05:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Update on category renaming
After contacting User:Shalom about this I received a prompt reply.
Response to CFD concern I'm sorry that I failed to get the word out regarding the CFD. I don't do many CFDs, so I'm not familiar with the need to tell everyone. My main line of work is AFD, where this is generally not necessary because users who care about an article will usually see it on their watchlist. I have no opinion on the debate anymore. Feel free to decide things without me. Best regards. Shalom Hello 05:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
He seems to washed his hands of the mess. So what's the next step? Blackmissionary 05:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
-
- After some administrative debate there is another renaming case. Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_June_27#Category:Australian_soccer_players. Please join in and comment.Tancred 08:53, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed New Match Tables
I have been looking around, and I saw the National Rugby League season 2007 page and the match tables they have there, I think they look really nice and look better than the current A-League ones. So I modified the table, and brought it here to be dicussed. I hope you all like it, I know the original one is a bit more compact, but I believe this other one is more bright and presents the information nicely, it also includes the clubs logo. Please leave your comments and suggestions below. - Allied45 11:27, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
- I agree - I think the rugby tables look nicer and more presentable than the present soccer ones. I'd think about using them for a few other sports as well. Rebecca 11:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
- Also agree, new table would brighten up the article. Is there a way to avoid Knights and Mariners wrapping to the next line? - Tomperc 07:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Existing Table
| Date | Home team | Score | Away team | Venue | Crowd | Report |
| August 25 | Melbourne Victory | 2-0 | Adelaide United | Olympic Park Stadium | 15,781 | report |
| August 26 | Queensland Roar | 3-0 | Perth Glory | Suncorp Stadium | 20,606 | report |
| August 27 | New Zealand Knights | 0-0 | Newcastle Jets | North Harbour Stadium | 7,304 | report |
| August 27 | Sydney FC | 1-0 | Central Coast Mariners | Aussie Stadium | 19,274 | report |
[edit] Proposed Table
| Home | Score | Away | Match Information | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Date and Time | Venue | Crowd | Reports | |||||
 Melbourne Victory |
2 - 0 |  Adelaide United |
25 August 2006, 7:30pm | Olympic Park Stadium | 12,340 | Summary Report |
||
 Queensland Roar |
3 - 0 |  Perth Glory |
26 August 2006, 7:00pm | Suncorp Stadium | 20,606 | Summary Report |
||
 New Zealand Knights |
0 - 0 |  Newcastle Jets |
27 August 2006, 5:00pm | North Harbour Stadium | 7,304 | Summary Report |
||
 Sydney FC |
1 - 0 |  Central Coast Mariners |
27 August 2006, 5:00pm | Aussie Stadium | 19,274 | Summary Report |
||
[edit] League v Club Season articles
Is there a consensus on what match info belongs in each season article? I'd taken that the League article shows score and crowd for each match in table like above, and further details (scorers, ref, cards, etc) was outlined in each club article (like A-League 2006-07 and Sydney FC season 2006-07). The current season articles seem to be moving in different directions. - Tomperc 07:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Metric system first
Hi I've noticed that a lot of players have their profiles with the imperial weights and measurements first. As a metirc country the metric system should be first and the imperial system in brackets. I've started re-editing them. Anyone want to help me? 60.230.78.50 07:10, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
- I've been progressively replacing with the height template that shows met(imp) or imp(met) depending on user prefs. I've also noticed a number of other player articles incorrectly use a comma decimal separator instead of decimal point. - Tomperc 00:14, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Notable Players
Guys, just after some input here - what do you think the criterion for "notable players" from A-League clubs should be? There is alot of debate over on the Victory article over whether Kristian Sarkies should be in our notable players section... could develop into something of an editing war. Some consider him to be notable having a Socceroos Cap, being and Olyroo and having scored a goal in the Grand Final win. Others suggest that he hasn't really achieved very little so far, and so inst notable at all. Thoughts?
--ElZilcho 04:40, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
- Tough one, even harder perhaps for newer entities like the A League clubs who have yet to produce major players themselves (ie Sydney United/George Cross) or have long serving players (ie, an Alex Tobin), all of which will come in time. Back to the issue at hand though, I don't think that Sarkies himself has achieved enough yet either here, overseas, or internationally to be classified as notable, unlike say from the same side, Archie Thompson or in particular Kevin Muscat. That's from a non-biased South Melbourne fan's point of view, with no emotional connection to Kristian or anyone else. Blackmissionary 05:04, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
- I'd say a 'notable' player would have at least a few full internationals (say minimum 5) and made some contribution to the club such as making many appearances or promoting the club/league (ie guest player). Sarkies' 7 minutes as a full Socceroo doesn't really put him into this category (yet). - Tomperc 06:41, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
- At the present, I used "represented country in full international" as the line in CCMFC. Daniel→♦ 11:03, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
- WP:BIO states - Competitors who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming or tennis. A-League is fully professional, anyone who plays in it is notable and can deserve their own article, but "notable" players inside the club itself would be captains, vice captains, anyone who has any Australian caps against proper opponents, and finally anyone who is a significant part of the team the "star players" if you will. Macktheknifeau 10:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
- At the present, I used "represented country in full international" as the line in CCMFC. Daniel→♦ 11:03, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
- I'd say a 'notable' player would have at least a few full internationals (say minimum 5) and made some contribution to the club such as making many appearances or promoting the club/league (ie guest player). Sarkies' 7 minutes as a full Socceroo doesn't really put him into this category (yet). - Tomperc 06:41, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Minor clubs and players
There recently appears to a lot new articles created on what seem to me to be minor clubs and teams in Victoria such as Altona East Phoenix, North Coburg United and Waverley Wanderers along with others. I was planning to PROD them but then thought that it may be worth asking here first to see if there is a consensus on what clubs and teams are seen to be notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia. I have PRODded some recently created player bios where it seems clear to me that they have not played in a fully professional league or at the highest level (i.e. the old NSL) as per WP:BIO but the clubs I am not so sure about. Any advice on the notablility of either the clubs and players would be appreciated. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 23:03, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- I think the players one is pretty easy. Players who have not played at a fully professional/top tier comp in this country should not have articles about them except in extraordinary circumstances. And i think playing only a couple of NSL games doesn't make you notable. The most notable NSL players in my opinion are players that have won the various medals, were top scorers, national reps, or long time players in that league. Therefore Francis Awaritefe is clearly notable; Paul Donnelly (footballer) is clearly not. I think people see red links and think that's a green light to go create a new article, and therefore create supplementary articles (which is why i personally for instance have not created unnecessary red links for South Melbourne FC players).
- As for the clubs... it's a little harder, and unfortunately this being compounded by latent and not so latent nationalism and POV work as well. You have teams that played maybe one season in the NSL but have been in obscurity ever since; i think having been there makes them notable enough. But therein lies the problem: a lot of the ex-nsl teams are in their state comps now, and for some people it kind of looks awkward to have info on some teams and not on others in the top tier of state comps, but the effect trickles down when every team with an article gets relegated and therefore, people start writing articles about clubs that have done nothing notable and really the only people that care are the people that wrote the article; i've probably been guilty of that myself, i reckon it's a common beginners mistake, and actually knowing the guy who has done the recent Altona East article updates in real life, i probably should have sent a message to him much earlier. There was/is an intersting dicussion of this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Notability.
- For what it's worth, i reckon that if a club played at the top tier of a state comp for any amount of time, or won their most notable state cup (ie, in Victoria, the Dockerty Cup), that should be enough. And i don't think the 2nd level of a state system is notable in this country, but they're there now, and we might as well keep them. Everyone else should probably wait their turn. I think this is something we seriously need to reach some sort of consenseus on. Blackmissionary 00:06, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
-
- Thank you for the detailed reply. My thoughts are generally along the same line as yours. I am inclined to leave the existing club articles alone much like the country AFL club articles such as Violet Town Football Club , as long as they are not purely social and/or entirely amateur. This does not mean that I would encourage the creation of new articles for marginally notable clubs however. I know very little about the nationalism issue with VPL clubs (other than it exists and is generally overemphasised by the media) but I can see this may be a problem if and when a weeding of non-notable clubs happens unless very specific criteria were put in place, similar to arrangements in the English league system.
-
-
- Consider that English football have clubs and players down to the utter depths on their league system (with full articles for clubs and players far below even the 2 split conference levels), doing the 2nd tier of Australian football should be simple enough of a decision, especially since many of the clubs in these competitions played in the NSL, and some players end up playing for A-League clubs during a season. The NSW final was on TV the other week, so I don't think anyone would be able to scream "Notability!!!" and attempt to have the articles removed. Macktheknifeau 10:24, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
-
[edit] Significant requested move - Newcastle Jets
I have proposed to move the Newcastle United Jets page. See Talk:Newcastle United Jets#Requested move. All input appreciated. Cheers, Daniel 11:04, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Ozfootball, and thankyous
Permission to sound self-important and prattle on a bit... :) As we all know, Wikipedia's greatest virtue and vice is its democratic nature. It lets amatuers and professionals a like have a go at stroing and presenting the worlds knowldege. I have recently gained full access to update the far less democratic but still very important OzFootball archives. This means that my time here, already limited by my uni studies, is now further stymied. I'll still be around doing minor stuff, and reverting vandalism, but it appears my time as a major editor here is over for the forseeable future. Without a year and half spent on Wikipedia, honing my skill, working with and alongside people, and creating content that i could be truly be proud of (and in turn, hoepfully inspiring others to do the same) i doubt that i would have bothered applying for what appeared to be a closed shop. Thank you to all the wonderful people working on this project, you all do a tremendous job, and in particular to AlbinoMonkey, who took my off the cuff and slightly desperate idea of incorporating the past (NSL) into the present (A-League) and made it not just a reality but even better. Keep up the good work everyone! And hopefully one day a lot of this work will be incorporated into OzFootball itself.
http://www.ozfootball.net/ark/Clubs/WIP.html
Blackmissionary 08:20, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Sexisim
I find it remarkably sexist that the Australia national football (soccer) team page does not make much mention of the women's team. Either it should merge the information a little more evenly or be renamed Ausrtralia men's national football (soccer) team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sliat 1981 (talk • contribs) 04:36, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
- You may have a point, but the naming follows the convention established for all national teams across Wikipedia. Even for nations where the women's game is stronger, this convention is followed (ie Germany Men & Women). Note that FIFA don't make the distinction of adding "men's" to any of their naming either. - Tomperc 10:15, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Jim Hermiston
I have just added an article on Jim Hermiston as part of my drive to improve the Aberdeen FC "Hall of Fame" section. Since he seems to have been a reasonably popular and even quite well-known player in Australia, I wonder if anyone has a little more concrete information on his Australian career? Specifically, it would be nice to have more details on his Philips Cup (I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the competition, so have no idea how significant it is. It doesn't appear to have an article of its own, but I guess it could have been known by a number of names, presuming that Philips was the sponsor) wins and perhaps some stats on games and goals. Thanks in advance, and apologies if this is not the right place for this request Watty1962 (talk) 04:34, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
- Happy to help with what I can. The 'Philips Cup' was the National Soccer League Cup, which was the cup competition associated with the National Soccer League, and I think he would have won titles with Brisbane City (winning it was still an achievement, but the Cup never held much prestige in Australian football). The NSL when it began in 1977 was the top flight in Australia. The best resource is OzFootball which has round-by-round summaries for most years, which should supply the raw data to compile stats. - Tomperc (talk) 10:58, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] A-League Manager Template colours
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Australia_national_football_team_templates
Hello everyone! Recently I've gone by and made manager templates for all the a league teams, but I've run into some trouble with the colour of the text. e.g. here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricki_Herbert, the "Wellington Phoenix FC – Managers" text is different from that of the other box. Some help would be greatly appreciated as I'm no so sure about fixing this. Thanks! :) Hectic18 (talk) 03:38, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Harry Brophy
Good day from a cold and damp England. I have created an article about Harry Brophy who was briefly manager of the Australia soccer team in the 1950s. Can someone cast an eye over it and check the facts about his time in Oz, especially the red-linked clubs. e.g. there seem to be several names for the Sydney Prague club - what was its correct name? Cheers. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:30, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed deletion: Anthony Raso
Anthony Raso (via WP:PROD on 2007-12-19)
-
- --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 18:47, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
- This WikiProject deals with football (soccer) in Australia, not Australian rules football. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:51, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
- --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 18:47, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Football (soccer) has been renamed...
.. to Association football. Was anyone here aware of the change? I'm rather undecided, both names have their pros and cons, but it is a pretty major change, with implications for tens of thousands of articles. A huge number of these articles will be covered by this WikiProject, possibly even the WikiProject name itself. -- Chuq (talk) 23:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I have started a discussion about the ramifications of this change in Talk:Sport in Australia.InsteadOf (talk) 10:17, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. There's an aussiball user on here who is always banging on about Australian English usage. Who the hell says Association football? Change it back. --202.47.49.53 (talk) 14:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
- Has there been any decision on this? I think either "association football" (first preference, since it is the Wikipedia standard) or "football (soccer)" is appropriate. However there is an anonymous user editing section headings to "Association football (soccer)" which is a huge mouthful, not to mention redundant as there is only one type of "association football". -- Chuq (talk) 07:03, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Grand Final articles
I just realised that A-League Grand Final 2006 and A-League Grand Final 2007 still exist. I had tagged them for merging into their respective season articles but lost track. It appears no-one else commented on the mergers (probably because the articles get very little traffic). So before someone creates the 2007-08 one, I thought I would get peoples thoughts on these articles. If they are to be kept then I will start cleaning them up. -- Chuq (talk) 11:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
- 2008 has just been created - any opinions on these? 95% of them seem to be the intro, infobox, navbox and categories, and info duplicated from the season articles or the report/summary link. About the only new thing on there is the image showing the starting line-up, which is unsourced. -- Chuq (talk) 02:09, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- I'd say keep these, but they need a bit of tidy up and more prose. The GF is a notable single match and its own article is appropriate. - Tomperc (talk) 13:08, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- I think maybe keep the 2006 and 2007 ones because they were significant in the sense that 2006 was the first one and 2007 broke all sorts of records. Normy 06:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
- I'd say keep these, but they need a bit of tidy up and more prose. The GF is a notable single match and its own article is appropriate. - Tomperc (talk) 13:08, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Youth League
With the suggestion of an A-League youth league starting up soon, I think we need to come to some decision as to how these will be represented on Wikipedia.
- The main article (and season articles, if required) should be separate to the A-League article & season articles.
- The club articles should be merged with the senior club articles, as they will be part of the same club and squad members will be shared.
- Note: It has been suggested that instead of Wellington, there will be an AIS team based in Canberra. Obviously the AIS team would have its own article.
- All other references should be kept separate (ie. caps and goals for youth teams are completely separate to senior teams).
These are pretty general at the moment, since little is known about the youth league. Any other ideas/comments? -- Chuq (talk) 07:11, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
- Now that details of the NYL are out (see here) this can go a bit further. All these points sound reasonable - a main article just about the youth comp (perhaps National Youth League (A-League) ); all the youth teams are aligned to a senior club, so include a section in each A-League club article on Youth team with the squad, coach and acheivements.
- Its worth noting the established rules on notability that apply to youth/academy players (particularly for English clubs). Essentially, a player is not notable enough to have their own article until they have made a first team appearance (so nobody rush ahead and create articles for the whole youth squad). - Tomperc (talk) 01:17, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] New South Wales Premier League 2008
I have started a new page for New South Wales Premier League 2008 I intend to keep it updated, but help would be greatly appreciated. Can anyone help by writing a summary/introduction etc? --Windsok (talk) 06:41, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
- I'd highly recommend (this is what I do when I get stuck) is find a featured article similar to that you are writing about and basically copy it, replacing anything that's relevant (team names, year etc.) Normy 06:18, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Infobox stats
Regarding appearances shown in the player infobox on player articles - Is there a consensus for if this includes/excludes finals? In short, the infobox is to include "domestic league" only, so while cup games are out, finals series are unclear. I can't find much on WP:FOOTY to confirm, but being an Australian/American quirk it may not appear to be an issue, however this has a big impact particularly on NSL/A-League players. - Tomperc (talk) 10:40, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Expansion
Just noticed on the A-League article that somebody added that the Thunder bid may be pulled because of funds problems and as a result so may be the Galaxy. Anybody got any info for this? Normy 02:50, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] A-league National Youth League
Is this article really needed? There's a section in the main A-League article explaining everything in this article and there's really not going to be much expansion on it either. Normy 07:59, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
- I'd say yes, the youth league is sufficiently notable to have its own article (see earlier discussion above). As it stands today, the A-League article provides a short summary, and the main NYL article contains all the details (although needs some improvement), which is a good balance. Over time this article will expand, particularly leading up to the season start in August. - Tomperc (talk) 10:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
- Further on this - I have given the NYL article a bit of a cleanup. I notice someone has created a separate article for the Newcastle youth team - as per the previous discussion a few sections up, I think youth team details should be part of the main club article for now. -- Chuq (talk) 09:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Newcastle Breakers
Page created at last for this club. Needs work though. Blackmissionary (talk) 05:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
- You could probably split this page up and merge it into articles for various teams - History of Football (Soccer) in Newcastle Australia -- Chuq (talk) 12:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
