Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics

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[edit] Bots for "untagged" articles

There is a lot of India-related articles that have not yet been tagged with WP India, let alone assessed for their quality. Often, their discussion page is empty, with no banners. Is it possible to build some bot that will automatically check if an India-related article has the WP India banner in their talk page, and, accordingly, tag it (at the very least, tag it, if not assess)? India-related articles can be identified by their categories. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 06:22, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

what are the categories you are looking for ? This task is easier by placing a request at Wikipedia:Bot requests -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 07:08, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
It's a good idea - another member of from the assessment dept. was also finding this problem. Those pages need to be tagged, with a bot preferrably. Ncmvocalist (talk) 07:32, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
The categories covered would be Category:India and its multiple sub, sub-sub (... and so on) categories. It's a quite uphill task.--Dwaipayan (talk) 07:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi. SatyrTN does this but he is on holidays. What you do is that you go to WP:AWB get it to generate all the subcats of India. Print it out. Remove false positives and repeated occurrences, and then put it in a list. Like User:Blnguyen/VN and then ask SatyrBot to tag it. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:38, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
This can be done using User:Kingbotk/Plugin. It has a built-in India project support, this allows for tagging articles with respective taskforces at the same time. When running the bot against stub categories, the auto=yes parameter can be applied. The India project support may be missing some newer taskforces, will need to request User:Kingboyk for those to be added in. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 13:05, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, bots are a good idea to have especially when tagging a huge chunk of articles are present. Since being a part of the assessment team, I realized a few months ago, for instance, that there were far too articles from the Telugu cinema that have not been tagged as a part of WP:India. What I have ventured to do is to do these manually. However, I have the following question: Each wikiproject has its own template arguments such as needs-infobox/needs-synopsis. How would the bot be able to handle and recognize the articles that need these arguments? Throwing light on this will be appreciated. Cheers! Mspraveen (talk) 16:29, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
The plugin helps out with adding the banner to talk pages. You can request these project-specific additional arguments be added to the plugin. You can also use User:ClockworkSoul/Igor for assessments. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 21:39, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I guess we should do this before we start the assessment drive ... Can somebody take this up ?? -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 01:46, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I have AWB Access now... I guess I will work on this.... -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 02:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I will make a manual assisted bot using AWB and plugin , and ask for BOT approval. This is to add our banner to articles without it in the Category:India and its sub-categories -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 04:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I have made the BRFA at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/TinucherianBot -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 12:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
The BOT is approved now -TinucherianBot ..Thanks to Ganesh for the immense help . Let me know of the categories of your interest ( including workgroup tags) here or on my talk page -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 16:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

You can see the BOT Tagging progess here -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 07:45, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

This bot is going strong. However, it does not automatically assess for WP:INDIA if any other project's assessment exists already. So, once it is run once over all the India Categories, we may need help of Bot0612 again. Now, #Unassessed India article is 10000+. GDibyendu (talk) 16:24, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes. You are right.Once we are done with this , we can take the help of Bot0612 again. But by the time all the categories are done by end of this week , the good ( or bad ?? ) news is that we should be having atleast 15,000 Unassessed articles :) -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 17:16, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
The Bot is stopped for now due to the below issue . -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 10:22, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

The Bot is restarted with more careful selection of categories now. Moreover it is receiving Tagging requests for the workgroups as well. It has already done for WP:WINDPA and WP:KERALA .
I am collecting categories from workgroups with their approvals for BOT run like

-- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 13:18, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BOT issues with Bengali categories on TinucherianBot

This bot is malfunctioning badly, and is tagging entirely incorrect articles with the WP:IND tags. For example, it has marked Panna Kaiser, a Bangladeshi politician to be under WP:India. These bugs need to be fixed ASAP. I spent a considerable time today fixing all the mess. --Ragib (talk) 20:03, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

The issue is _NOT_ essentialy a bot malfunction. The issue is on miscategorization with respect to Bengali categories.

Let me explain the operation of TinucherianBot .We feed in a category ( an india related one is selected , say Category:Indian people by occupation ), making a list out of this cat recursively and then running the bot. The BOT automatically identifies talk pages in the list without the banner and adds them. I am selecting different categories from Category:India. It is impossible to go down to every lowest node of the category tree , therefore I run the category (recursive) list from 3-4 levels down the main cat Category:India See User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg .
The problem is the jurisdication of bengali cats falls both in India and Bangladesh.
eg: 1) Category:Bengali newspapers has BOTH Category:Newspapers published in India and Category:Newspapers published in Bangladesh as super category ,which is Wrong. The super category should be compleletly inclusive of all the subcats and articles in it.
2) Category:Bengali people has both people from India and Bangladesh and the cat is lowlevel subcat of main cat Category:India
3) Category:Bengali writers has both people from India and Bangladesh and the cat is lowlevel subcat of main cat Category:India

I have stopped the Bot for now till we fix the issue.
I need comments from the members for fixing this. Please understand the issue is tricky and sensitive so we need to handle this with care.

What do you think of recatergorization of Category:Bengali writers to Category:Bengali writers in India and Category:Bengali writers in Bangaladesh ?

Please dont take any offence in this suggestion. I am suggesting to avoid wrong categorization.

Ragib suggests "Category:Indian people by occupation " should never be a supercategory of "Bengali people" or "Bengali writers". Not all Bengali writers are from India nor from Bangladesh. So, it will be a fallacy to include that as a super cat. Also, "Bengali writers in India" is redundant ... Bengali writers who are from India should already be covered under "Category:Indian writers". Same goes for Bangladeshi writers. "

Thoughts ?? -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 05:01, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


To clarify, I am suggesting separation of ethnic/linguistic and nationality categories. For example, suppose X is a Bengali (by ethnicity) poet from Bangladesh (or historically, from the region now called Bangladesh). So, X should be under category "Bangladeshi poets" (to denote his national/geographic origin). X shoudl also fall under "Bengali poets" to denote his ethnicity.

The problem with the bot tagging arose because "Bengali X" were marked as a subcategory under Category:Indian people by occupation or something similar, making "Bengali X" categories a descendant of Category:India. This is not necessarily correct, as people of Bengali ethnicity are also in Bangladesh (in fact, the majority 66% of Bengalis are there, but that's a different story). To resolve these confusions, I propose separating ethnicity based categories from Nationality based categories. --Ragib (talk) 05:17, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

(Parenthetical note: Separation of writers should be by language rather than ethnicity.) --Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 09:50, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Sub categories under India - level categories should be Indian states not ethnicities like Bengali / Tamil. Indian Poets should / may have a sub-category named Poets from West Bengal not Bengali poets. Arman (Talk) 05:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Poets from West Bengal also has a problem, how about those who were born in anywhere in Bengal before West Bengal was born? I agree with Ragib that more care is needed while making a category part of another category. For a solution, I suggest that Bengali Poets category (and similar categories) should not be part of Indian Poets category, rather Bengali Poets who are Indian also should be categorized under Indian Poets also. BTW, there are a lot of mistakes in this area. For example, just see the various category trees which contain Category:Bengali writers. GDibyendu (talk) 06:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Category:Indian literature by language >> Category:Bengali literature >> Category:Bengali writers and Category:Bangladeshi literature -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 08:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment It seems to me that there should be three category trees separated by ethnicity, language, and nationality. One for writers who write in Bengali, one for writers of Bengali ethnicity (many Bengali writers write in English, for example), and one that is based on nationality People from India, Bangladesh, etc.. So, Amitav Ghosh would be in the ethnic tree and nationality tree but not in the language tree. Someone like Bankim Chandra Chatterjee would be in the nationality tree (India branch), ethnic tree and language tree. Someone like Taslima Nasreen would be in the ethnic tree, language tree and nationality tree (Bangladesh branch). Or, to phrase it another way, why use subcats that combine ethnicity, language, and nationality when the article can be categorized independently in some subset of the three (except, possibly, when the subcat is a terminating placeholder node with several parents).--Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 10:26, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Comment on the above - Good idea, with a small issue ... people who died before 1947 , e.g. Bankinm Chatterjee, cannot be in the nationality tree for India (i.e. Republic of India). Republic of India as a nation didn't exist before 1947, and marking people under the nationality tree for Republic of India would be incorrect. Bankim can be under the ethnicity and language trees. Otherwise, the proposal sounds fine. --Ragib (talk) 15:04, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Noted - thinking about it. Ncmvocalist (talk) 10:31, 3 June 2008 (UTC) see below

I agree with the idea of separating nationality from ethnicity. The only reason why I mentioned about subcategorization by state (e.g. West Bengal) is that, the India country level categories may become too large and there may be a natural tendency to subcategorize such large categories. If such subcategorization is needed, instead of language or nationality, state can be the more appropriate classifier. I didn't quite get GDibyendu's point on problem with classifying by state. If someone was born in a place which is currently in Bangladesh and spent significant part of his work life in present-day West Bengal (e.g. Madhusudan Datt) - is there a problem if we classify him as both "Poet from Bangladesh" and "Poet from West Bengal"? Arman (Talk) 03:24, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
(1) When he was born, there was no West Bengal or Bangladesh. (2) He was born in 1824 and joined Hindu College in 1837, I am not sure whether he could be called a poet by then. (3) He spent a few years in Madras also; do we have to call him a "Poet from Madras" also? (4) Between 1947 and 1971, the place he was born was under Pakistan. Would you mind calling him a "Poet from Pakistan" also? Mainly these are the reasons why I think there is no point in creating separate state-specific categories for cultural arena like literature, film etc. And BTW, "Category:Bengali people by occupation" is a subcategory of "Category:People by nationality and occupation", but it should not be: Bengali is not a nationality. GDibyendu (talk) 14:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
  • The reason I took time to think on this is because it is a wide issue that is not limited to the categories mentioned.
  • Category:Bengali writers is the category for those who write in Bengali, regardless of their nationality, as long as it is Indian literature.
  • All others should go under the category of People from India >> People from Bengal. May be clearer at the bottom of the page.
  • For people either from Bangladesh, or who write Bangladeshi literature, categories will be sorted out at the bottom of the page.
  • There are some other categories in our own India project that need to be renamed and moved accordingly - I'll leave that discussion in a separate topic on this page so the request can be made at the same time, that is, if Tinucherian doesn't mind :) Ncmvocalist (talk) 05:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] An Invitation from the Philippine Wikipedia Community

Hello folks,

The Philippine Wikipedia Community will be holding its 1st Meet-up in Cebu City (the fourth one in the Philippines) on June 23-24, 2008. This coincides with the first Philippine Open Source Summit, also to be held in Cebu. The Philippine Wikipedia Community is an Implementing Partner of the Open Source Summit. We invite you to join us in this event. If you are in the IT or IT-enabled services industry, this would be a great opportunity to meet people from the 4th best outsourcing city in the world. This is also a good excuse to visit our beautiful beaches :)

If you're interested in joining the Wikipedia meet-up, please join our discussion. You can register for the Open Source Summit here. If you would like some assistance with local accomodations, you may email User:Bentong Isles.

The Philippine Wikipedia Community
WP:PINOY

[edit] Census tables.

I had recently added the census tables to Mumbai and Delhi pages in demographics section. Both the addition were immediately removed by User:Nikkul (from Mumbai's page without prior discussion). Since this issue involves discussion on 2 pages I think it is better to have centralized discussion on this page instead of following separate discussion on 2 talk pages.

Arguments presented by User:Nikkul in Talk:Delhi. For Mumbai read this Talk:Mumbai.

Nikkul's points

User:Gppande has added this table. I don't think it's suited for the Delhi page because:

  • ALL Featured Indian city articles do not have this table and have not had this table when they became featured
  • This table would work better on the Mumbai statistics page
  • The average reader doesnt really care about how many people lived in the city 20 years ago and 30 years ago
  • The demographics section is supposed to reflect the current demographics including religion, ethnicity, etc.
  • This table contains very auxiliary information. It not important
  • It's very big and bulky and is really not that informative
Gppande's points

  • The reason these articles did not have the table earlier because this information is too hard to find. You would always get the latest census data from Census website. So even small villages will have 2001 census data on their pages. But it is very hard to find what was the population from past census. All such information needs to be either purchased from Govt websites or you need to do a hard google search. Moreover, other featured articles across the world have such information where ever it is available Youngstown, Ohio, Belgrade, new york, Boston, Massachusetts. Even Indian FA's like Ladakh had it when it got FA status. For Gangtok when it was in FAR I added it to Demogrpahic section and none raised any question. I believe more and more Indian cities should follow this WP style. Just check this hundreds of US cities/state/counties follow the template for their articles. Shouldn't Indian articles also do so?
  • Surely, it can be there too on statistics page.
  • Average reader would usually need such information. After all, +ve or -ve deviation in population is a key indicator of city's profile. Like for Delhi, isn't the chart speaking of how significant is 1951 census? I would be soon adding similar chart for Nagpur and you would be surprised to know population growth rate of Nagpur has been dropping since last 2 decades due to migration to west Maharashtra. Are these not significant fact or very hard to understand for an average reader(both Indian and non-Indians)? Chart shows values and deviation for such significant events and after those events. So both values and deviations are important and are present in the chart.
  • Not sure why "current demographics" is only acceptable as per Nikkul. No where it is written so. I believe Demographics section should give FULL information not just current.
  • This information is important(not auxillary) from encyclopedic point of view. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. This information tells cities growth from past to present(for years it is available). Currently the article lacks such information completely. I understand that not too much numeric information should be added to main article. But if climate section can have chart so could demographics. 1 chart is not tons of statistical data to be moved to new page.
  • Information is displayed in well organized manner. It is properly aligned in form of template. It is not at all bulky. Most importantly, it is significant information and is based from authentic source - census of india- as approved by Wikiproject India.

Need inputs from all members on this matter. --gppande «talk» 09:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Comments I support gppande, his reasons and claims seems to be valid. Wikipedia is a dynamic encyclopedia, whch anyone can edit so this table can be added to all other Indian cities and states aswell. We need to add or can add historical demographics figures to show the change in population over the years. A table can say what a thousand words paragraph can't, so adding the table is a good idea. But before adding something significant to a FA, a general announcement on the talk page is a courtsey. Amartyabag TALK2ME 16:18, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Using collapsable tables as per AreJay is indeed a good idea. Along with photos this table can be inserted very easily within the same paragraph. Amartyabag TALK2ME 11:55, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Support addition of the census data. This data gives a comprehensive idea about the city's growth through several decades. In its concise form, it deserves to be part of the demographics section. Wikipedia, as an encyclopedia, deserves mention of such significant data. My two cents, Mspraveen (talk) 16:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Comments Well, I am in two minds here. The addition of such a table should be judged individually for each article. This table should be incorporated in a separate article on the demographics of a city (such as Demographics of Darjeeling). But, it may not be necessary for the city article. Definitely it is not a must for city articles. Some city articles have large demographics section, where such a table may be befitting. However, for a short demographics section, continuous historical data of population is not needed (neither in table form, nor in text). Some notable shifts occurred at some point of time in the history of the city (such as sudden burst of population of Delhi following independence) can be mentioned in text in demographics (or history) section.
Since addition of this table is not a must, we should consider other aspects while adding the table. For example, for FAs, it's important to see that the table does not protrude into the next section. --Dwaipayan (talk) 16:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Support addition of tables with census data. They add values to the Demographics sections. Surely it's an improvement. GDibyendu (talk) 16:37, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Support I think that the information is useful and pertinent in the two examples presented. It is impossible to understand the nature of large Indian cities without a sense for the population growth and the tables illustrate that well (though a graph would be even better). This information has encyclopedic value. --Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 19:53, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
PS To GPPande: Once you have obtained consensus here for the demographic tables, please work on getting rid of some of the visual obscenities that currently grace the two city pages. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:17, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Support: I think the inclusion of historical data puts the growth of the city's population in perspective. Most of the objections seem to be arguable, since they are based on someone's point-of-view, rather than being contrary to standard operating procedures supported by Wikipedia guidelines. We don't need someone trying to interpret for us what the "average reader" does or doesn't care about, unless the opposing editor can quantify, with empirical data, the likes and dislikes of readers on Wikipedia. I do think though that Collapsible tables might be better suited to present this kind of data (this would also probably address objection #6). Thanks AreJay (talk) 21:56, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Support This ultimately comes down to whether the census tables are beneficial or a hindrance to the articles. I believe it is the former as others have summed up why better than I ever could. GizzaDiscuss © 00:58, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your support. As per User:AreJay I have included the collapsible option in Template:IndiaCensusPop. Now both the tables(on this talkpage) have a show/hide button on them. I would add these tables to Mumbai and Delhi pages on Monday if no more concerns are raised. --gppande «talk» 15:26, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No unaccessed articles under Protected areas of India

Protected areas of India
articles		 Importance
Top High Mid Low None Total
Quality
Featured article FA 1 1
Good article GA 1 1 2
B 1 6 3 8 18
Start 4 10 38 52
Stub 1 6 7 145 159
Assessed 1 13 19 7 192 232
Unassessed 118 118
Total 1 13 19 7 310 350

There is no column about the unaccessed articles under the Protected areas of India Wikiproject. Kindly add the category to the template. Amartyabag TALK2ME 16:06, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

It was the same problem Tinu reported above with WP:KERALA. I've corrected it now.--thunderboltz(TALK) 16:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the help and correction. Amartyabag TALK2ME 11:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Villages

An update. The bot that will create missing places around the world is currently in discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/FritzpollBot creating up to two million new articles. India, Russia and China were put on hold due to their large scope. I was thinking we should go ahead with creating the village articles based on the Census link using User:Ganeshbot. User:Sumibot had created some of the tehsils in AP. But, it has not been run for the rest of country.

This time around I feel it will be efficient to involve human editors before the process is run, for disambiguating as well as suggesting the text of the articles. Each state will have different links/sources, so I have started collecting sources at User:Ganeshbot/Villages. Please add any sources that you know to pull data from.

I had create a AWB plugin that allows for creating articles based on CSV files. Column headers and article text is configurable. Once create a proper CSV file and article text, the same data can be used by other language Wikipedias to create article using with AWB/CSV plugin. Previously Ganeshbot code had to be modified by each language wiki, this will avoid that.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks, Ganeshk (talk) 21:52, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Sundar, I may need your Perl script to suggest disambiguations or related articles. Please comment. Thanks, Ganeshk (talk) 21:53, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A notice to all WP:IND members for comments

Hello all, it is nice to see some of the old guys working. We need to chalk out certain plans to sustain the smooth running of the project. Here are some of the proposals that we may work on an emergency basis:

  • Working on the WP:MOSIN- India related articles. We must do certain addition or deletion and place a formal review so that it becomes an approved process.
  • Restarting the project's newsletter, it has been stopped over a year now.
  • Selection of a Project coordinator, sub-coordinator(s).

Your comments in this regard will be highly appreciated. Amartyabag TALK2ME 03:35, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Nice points that you have brought up here. I'm not quite sure if you would count me as one of the old guys :) but I thought I can chip in with my two cents.
  • The project newsletter had caught my eye a while ago and I thought of taking an initiative a couple of months back. Sadly, my RL activities got the better of this initiative. However, I'm willing to contribute to this activity.
  • MOS for India-related articles would be quite useful. Would there be one already in place? Thats what I understand from you.
Cheers! Mspraveen (talk) 14:01, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Gr8 Idea !


  • Good idea: I'm all for either revisiting existing proposals on MOSIN or expanding it. Time and internet connectivity may be iffy for me for the next couple of weeks, but I can definitely pitch in and help. Thanks AreJay (talk) 16:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Sounds good to me. I'm around for a while and then will be gone with sporadic connectivity for a while (traveling in India!) but am willing to help out. BTW, User:Rohit nit has been doing a fine job with the portal, especially considering he's on his own. I'm sure he'll be happy to take on formal responsibility for something.--Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 19:44, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
  • I think an MOS for India-related topics is useful only if it confines itself to issues outside the purview or expertise of the main Wikipedia MOS, i.e. to issues where the MOS has nothing to say. Thus, for example, making a recommendation that Mahatma Gandhi should be the chosen name for Gandhi's page, when the main MOS is explicitly against honorifics, and when all major encyclopedias—Britannica, Encarta, Columbia, and Webster's—and Oxford Dictionary of National Biography have the full name, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, is, I believe, overstepping its bounds. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
    I'm not sure if you're (f&f) suggesting that the use of Mahatma before Gandhi's name is something that should be included in the MOS for India related topics or is just totally outre as per WP:NC. If the latter, there are plenty of exceptions to the 'explicitly against honorifics'. For example, As such, they should be included in the article title if a person if universally recognised with it and their name is unrecognisable without it. In that case, the appropriate question is whether 'Mahatma Gandhi', 'Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi' or something else is the universally recognized name. --Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 15:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I think that, in respect of Gandhi, WP:MOSIN has nothing to add that is not already in WP:NAMEPEOPLE, which states unambiguously in its third line, "Do not have additional qualifiers (such as "King", "Saint", "Dr.", "(person)", "(ship)"), except when this is the simplest and most NPOV way to deal with disambiguation." (See also Qualifiers not between brackets). I think something specific to a country's naming convention (such as romanization in WP:NC-CHINA) would be appropriate, but not topics that have been treated thoroughly elsewhere. Sure there are exceptions, but in all cases, MOS says, "when in doubt consult a standard mainstream reference work." The standard reference works, all have "Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi." Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:22, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
That may be the case. I'm not suggesting you are wrong but rather that the case for or against Mahatma is not as cut and dried as your original formulation (explicitly against honorifics) implies. Note also that the guidelines in WP:NAMEPEOPLE come with the 'preferably' caveat and that exceptions are mentioned in WP:NC which may (or may not!) apply to MKG. (This is probably completely off-topic anyway!) --Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 19:04, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
You are right, Gandhi was an example. My broad point is simply that WP:MOSIN should aim to facilitate things, not create more rules when pre-existing ones might suffice. Many pages might be India-related, but they might not be only India-related. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Looks like Project Newsletter is getting maximum support & volunteers. I am also up for it. I also think we need to focus much on Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Photography as this department is really lacking. In my view we have very few FP for India related stuff and also lots of articles have very few images. --gppande «talk» 15:50, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Pandeji, You can start working on the Newsletter creation.. By the time I will make a WP:BRFA for TinucherianBot to be able to deliver the newsletters ourselves -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 13:39, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Is there any template from past for India Project related newspapers? I am lost as to where to start on this. :-)) Any old template would give me starting point. --gppande «talk» 12:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Hope the last version of the newsletter helps. Furthermore, the Wikipedia:WikiProject_India/Outreach#Newsletter newsletter section on the outreach department shall give more insight. Cheers! Mspraveen (talk) 12:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
BRFA for Newsletter delivery of TinucherianBot is approved. Now we can have our own bot to deliver the project newsletters -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 10:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reduce nuisance changes on India related pages

Today's FA had a link on its talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Recentchangeslinked/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Kentucky/Watchall

I tried replacing Kentucky with India but got a red link indicating page does not exist. This seems to be a special page. Does this kind of functionality exist for India project? Any idea what would it take to setup this?

I think just keeping an eye on such a page would help reduce nuisance edits on lots of India articles and also know whats been worked much these days. Its just like having a watchlist for entire project :-) --gppande «talk» 12:31, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

It is simple with the help of User:SQLBot. Like I did for WP:IX at Wikipedia:WikiProject Indian Christianity/Articles . It is auto populated by the Bot. Therefore we can watch them at Special:RecentChangesLinked/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Indian_Christianity/Articles . But considering this project articles is over 30K , the page will be huge.
If there is an agreement here, i will place a request. -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 13:22, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Good idea--Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 13:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Nice thing. GDibyendu (talk) 14:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Support I knew Tinu wud come up for this! - Nice to have you with us buddy --gppande «talk» 14:23, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
This–Special:RecentChangesLinked/List_of_India-related_articles is the closest we've got as of now. Long since it was updated. I think it'd be nice if you can get it automated, Tinu.--thunderboltz(TALK) 15:46, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks :) . I have made a request at User_talk:SQL#WP:INDIA_Watchlist_Articles -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 16:29, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
( User:SQL havent responded yet ... Ganesh, does you bot have this feature ??? -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 13:36, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, we have this feature at Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Articles. It is split into 7 sub-pages due to page size limits (currently writes 6000 articles per page). It is not on a schedule. I have to manually run the program to update the pages. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 04:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] list of Indian Prime Ministers

I came across this article on Prime Minister of India. There is absolutely no material in it. Hope someone takes up the task to fill it up with content. Tarun2k (talk) 19:25, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Clarification: On going through the history of the article found that it had been vandalized. Now that I have reverted the vandalism, think it is pretty fine. Yet a number of improvements can be made. Tarun2k (talk) 22:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

The following need to be moved, renamed, created and/or deleted. Cheers - Ncmvocalist (talk) 05:49, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Current Proposed Comments

Bangladeshi categories and its articles are removed from falling under this project, unless its literature is Indian, in which case it falls under the appropriate category.


Why should "Category:Sahitya Akademi Award recipients in Assamese" fall under Bengali literature? --Ragib (talk) 06:07, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Typo - fixed now. Ncmvocalist (talk) 06:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia guidelines discourage creating category for award winners. Arman (Talk) 08:46, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
They already existed so I didn't bother. We might as well delete that category. Ncmvocalist (talk) 09:01, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I feel that Category:Sahitya Akademi Award recipients should be retained as it is the most important literay award in India -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 09:33, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
OK - if there is a famous award from other WikiProjects that use award categories (like the Academy Awards), then we can reconsider, but otherwise, I think the guideline in relation to this might be better to follow. Ncmvocalist (talk) 13:12, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
There are categories for scores of literary awards under Category:Writers by award. GDibyendu (talk) 16:34, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
We can keep Sahitya Akademi Award recipients then. Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Does the proposed Bengali writers refer to Bengali-language writers or Bengali-ethnicity writers?--Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 16:36, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

It refers to Bengali-language writers (of Indian literature). For people who are from Bengal (writers or otherwise), it should be limited to the category of People from Bengal India to avoid overcategorization. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps the language categories should be renamed to ensure that there is no confusion with ethnicity. This is especially true for Bengali (ethnic) writers where there are many Bengalis writing in other languages. A return to Bengali (language) writers perhaps?--Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 17:12, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Agreed - it should be renamed. Currently, the articles in those categories are kinda mixed up so we may need to deal with that before sending in the changes. Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:15, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I have one suggestion that the above parent categories like Category:Bengali literature need not be part of Category:Indian literature by language, in fact there is no clear need of this last category as all categories like Category:Bengali literature are subcategories of Category:Literature by language, which is good enough. And other than Category:Indian literature by language there is no nationality-oriented subcategory under Category:Literature by language. I hope that people will agree with logic. GDibyendu (talk) 17:00, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
No, we're keeping (and dealing with) Indian stuff here. Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:12, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Actually, we are discussing this in a different thread above, and pointing out the problem with mixing language based and nationality based categories. I think GDibyendu's points are logical. --Ragib (talk) 17:17, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
We're specifically dealing with Indian literature, so the category will remain - but I should've been clear: I'm not concerned if it is removed as a subcategory from Literature by language though (obvious it doesn't belong there). Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:28, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
If that is what you are thinking, then why do you propose to merge Categories of Bangladeshi poets with Category of Bengali poets? Bangladesh is a country and not part of India. If we agree to make these literature categories language-wise, then we need to remove nationality from them. Surely, there are Urdu poets in Pakistan, Tamil poets in Sri Lanka and Bengali poets in Bangladesh. GDibyendu (talk) 17:48, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I have not suggested Bangladeshi poets merge with Bengali poets - I've completely removed the category of Bangladeshi poets so that they do not fall under this project (they belong in the categories of the Bangladeshi project - we are specifically keeping literature that is Indian for the purposes of this WikiProject). I haven't finished the listing - it's only a few of several so far. Ncmvocalist (talk) 01:05, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Postponing this for the moment. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Punjab

I recently noticed WikiProject Punjab's scope includes Punjabs on both sides of the border. It will not be correct to the include it's article count in the Indian assesments. I was thinking we should create a child-project, WikiProject Punjab (India) to be a child project under WikiProject India and WikiProject Punjab. This is similar to what we had done for Bengal and West Bengal. Please let me know your thoughts. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 23:07, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

You are right ... I was also thinking the same -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 02:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Exactly, i think that a new wikiproject in a neccessity. Amartyabag TALK2ME 00:27, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the comments. I created the Punjab workgroup. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 02:43, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TFD:Indian Selected Article/Image/List templates

Thoughts ? -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 05:35, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I have added a proposal on that page stating that 1st one should be changed like other three. Then all four will look good for talk pages. These templates are not for use in article pages. Hope people will agree with that. GDibyendu (talk) 06:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes. I suggested to use a different image ( not to be confused as the FA star ) and then move all the templates to the Talk pages -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 13:34, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I am okay with (1) changing the icon to something else and (2) moving it to the Talk pages. I am completely against any use of this in the article page. --Madhu (talk) 13:53, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
No question about putting such things in article pages. Only two articles had it by mistake or whatever of editors, and they have been cleaned today. I also had visited one of these two pages earlier and thought it to be FA. These portal-specific templates are meant for talk pages only. By the way, please come with suggestion for new icon/picture. Please think on the line of "showcase" not "selected". GDibyendu (talk) 14:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Probably one of our featured images? We need a consensus on this, of course. --Madhu (talk) 15:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Surely we need consensus. Category:Indian featured pictures contains only one pic, which can be clearly identified related to India. That is Taj Mahal. But, Taj Mahal's pic is already used for other things. Among other important (though not featured) pictures, listed in Category:Indian selected pictures, there are some which can be easily (hopefully) identifiable with India: Peacock, Royal Bengal Tiger, Wheel of Konarak, Gateway of India. My vote goes to Peacock (uniqueness) and Wheel of Konarak (clarity of pic). GDibyendu (talk) 15:58, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Good point pointed by thunderboltz. The parameter portal=yes of {{WP India}} is good enough for the purpose -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 16:08, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. That's good enough. Since it is part of WP India template, nobody's going to put it on article page and its icon is also commonly used by other portals. GDibyendu (talk) 16:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree too. Thanks to User:Thunderboltz for bringing this to everyone's notice! --Madhu (talk) 16:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
BTW, Portal:India/Selected articles should show this image rather than old image. Plus, why is Black Pepper in that list? Its not even related to WP India! GDibyendu (talk) 16:20, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment drive

is now open, and you're all invited to participate! (A few changes may still be made but it should not affect the overall aims and outcome of the drive.) Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] {{Guntur district}}

Can someone please help fix this template? It takes too much space. Thanks, Ganeshk (talk) 03:39, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Y Done Mspraveen (talk) 05:44, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks much! Ganeshk (talk) 13:43, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] {{Metropolitan Cities of India}}

I need community input on how cities should be sorted. I had reverted User:Nikkul's change to sort the cities based on the population count. I feel alpha-sort is more reader-friendly and generally the standard with templates. He disagrees. Please let me know your thoughts. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 02:17, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I feel a template listing the largest cities in India should list them in order of size, making it clear to the reader which city is larger than another. Templates such as World's Largest Cities do not list the cities in alphabetical order. They are listed in order of size. Its common sense Nikkul (talk) 03:05, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
v • d • e
World's fifty most-populated urban areas
Without commenting on the specifics of this issue - because I really don't know what the norm for similar templates is - I do wish to point out that there is a fundamental difference between 'most populated urban areas' (an ordering, or at least a magnitude, is implied) and 'metropolitan cities' (no ordering or magnitude is implied). Doubtless there are better examples but I'm not sure that the example provided by Nikkul is a good one. (Parenthetic note: Isn't alphabetical listing also common sense?) --Regents Park (roll amongst the roses) 03:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Well if it is being sorted by the population count of metropolitan cities, then it's currently being sorted wrong. A metropolitan city consists of the city itself (as a municipality) as well as the surrounding urban agglomeration. Bangalore is therefore not the third largest metropolitan area (although it is the third largest city), and neither is Kolkata the fourth largest metropolitan area (its actually the third largest). See [1] for some clarity on the definitions of "Urban Area" and "Metropolitan Area". Because the subtleties of these terms aren't understood by one and all, I think the table should be sorted alphabetically. Thanks AreJay (talk) 03:22, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Agree to Ganeshk's thoughts as per Regents Park & AreJay. There is unanimous support by the assessment department for this position. Mspraveen (talk) 05:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC) & Ncmvocalist (talk) 14:55, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment The template takes space of 1 line. I believe it has lot of space to provide some more information to the user(right now it conveys nothing more than 5 names). Nikkul's suggestion of sorting it on basis of population is good but nowhere the template says Mega cities "by population". I think we have 2 options

  • Keep the template sorted alphabetically but mention some ranking in ( ) by population in it.
  • Sort it on basis of population. Template:Million plus cities in India is also alpha sorted. I believe there is no Indian template currently which shows cities by population. Similar templates for other nations exists and are sorted on population. FA's like London and NYC have these templates.

Examples - Template:LargestUKCities - Template:USLargestCities - Template:USLargestMetros - Template:Census metropolitan areas by size .. For Canada. - Template:Most populous cities in the People's Republic of China.
I would opt for second choice. Lets sort by population.
By the way, why is Ahmedabad having this template? It's an Indian FA but the template is no way related to city's article. --gppande «talk» 16:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Please see these:

v • d • e
50 largest cities of the United States by population
v • d • e
25 largest settlements in the UK by urban core population
v • d • e
Most populous cities in the People's Republic of China

Shanghai · Beijing · Tianjin · Chengdu · Wuhan · Harbin · Shenzhen · Nanjing · Qingdao · Shenyang · Hong Kong · Chongqing · Changchun · Zhengzhou · Guangzhou · Kunming · Dalian · Taiyuan · Fuzhou · Hangzhou · Fushun · Jinan · Ningbo · Xiamen · Suzhou · Hefei · Nanchang · Lanzhou · Hohhot · Guiyang · Ürümqi · Xining

Having them sorted in order of population is common sense! Imaging if the list of 50 most populated cities in the world was sorted alphabetically! Nikkul (talk) 17:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed with Nikkul's suggestion. BTW, there are only 6 mega-cities and probably template name also should be moved to Template:MegaCities of India or similar. GDibyendu (talk) 17:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject India/New articles

Just in case you are not aware of this , Wikipedia:WikiProject India/New articles
User:AlexNewArtBot updates this page with newer articles that might possibly come under the scope of our project. -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 06:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Satwant Kaur Dogra

This article is in serious need of some assistance, and unfortunately improving it is far beyond my areas of expertise. I was unable to find any online sources on the subject apart from this news report, and am therefore not convinced it meets WP:POLITICIAN. I was inclined to send it to AfD, but if anyone could help ascertain notability (or lack thereof), it would certainly be appreciated :) Thanks, Fvasconcellos (t·c) 01:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC)