User talk:Gram123

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Gram123's Image Talk
PLEASE NOTE: All edits to this talk page concerning images, adding tags or rationale, orphans and deletions are now located on the subpage: Gram123's Image Talk.

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Contents

[edit] Moving pages

When you move a page, use Move function. You can see it in the top of the page. You can read more about it in Moving a page guide. The Move function is the only way to move the article edit history along the page. You can't do it by simply cutting and pasting text into a new location. The edit history is left in the old article location, where it is hard to find. But we must know the edit history, because Wikipedia's GFDL licence requires attribution, which means acknowledging the authors of the articles. So a cut and a paste move is actually a copyright infringement.

Also, you should familiarize yourself with Wikipedia:Naming conventions. The title that you gave for the Stars On 33 (Aim) article is against the guidelines. I made the page a redirect to the correct title. I moved the disambiguation page to the correct album article title, and then reverted the album article. (The disambiguation page had the essential edit history because you left it there when you cut and pasted the text elsewhere.) I created a more illustrating disambiguation page, so I have solved this problem. The situation isn't always as fortunate, sometimes people have to ask an administrator to solve the problem.

If you can't move a page with Move function, ask an administrator to move it at Wikipedia:Requested moves. -Hapsiainen 23:25, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

  • Ok, understood. I will bear this in mind for the future. Cheers. Gram 09:47, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Late Night Tales

Hi Gram123,

good work on the Late Night Tales albums. I'd always use categories for large series of such items, and when there are more DJ-Kicks articles they will get one too. A suggestion: Maybe you should add a {{album infobox}} to your album stubs? You don't have to fill out all the blanks in them, but in my opinion, an album article with a complete infobox is nearly past the stub stage already. I've added one to DJ-Kicks: Nightmares on Wax now, you can see how it's done there - more information is at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums#Table. Anyway, good work - and keep it up! -- grm_wnr Esc 21:51, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Category:Aim albums is already done right (except that all categories should have supercategories, which I've already added). You just have to put "[[Category:Grand Central Records albums]]" into the article text, save, then click the red link in the categories bar and create the category page (with supercategories - the Grand Central one would get Category:Albums by record label). After that it should work. A tip: When linking to a category, use a colon before the Category name, like this: "[[:Category:Grand Central Records albums]]", which creates Category:Grand Central Records albums. Without the colon, you just put the page into the category, and the link isn't displayed. I hope that helps - I have to go to bed now and can't categorize the pages myself, but if there are still problems I can help you tomorrow. -- grm_wnr Esc 00:21, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of independent record labels

Hi Gram123, I see you have been adding countries to some labels in the list of independent record labels. That's nice, but wouldn't it be better if all lists of record labels are done in the same way? Extra information in the list when the article is not created yet (eg website, country, ...) but once the article is started there is no need anymore for this in the list. Please check also List of record labels, List of independent UK record labels, List of electronic music record labels, List of jungle and drum n bass record labels who all use this method (most of the time). warpozio 19:58, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Ok. Gram 15:10, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fabric Live 17

yeah i just rotated the tracks and titles, it just makes more sence to me. i am slowly adding the other Fabric Mix Albums so was just keaping it consistent. Junior Aspirin 21:21, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

  • ok thanks, i didnt realise the was a standard. i will change the others to match, thanks for clarifying. Junior Aspirin 19:46, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Amady / Amdy

Because I'm an arse and despite changing the link you (rightly) corrected to the version you corrected *from*, I forgot to change it back wnen I swapped the mis-spelt article over from it's redirection. And if that makes no sense, drop me message and I'll explain it better when I'm sober... IainP (talk) 00:33, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Eastern Cinema template

You can find these templates by editing the page that hosts it and checking at the bottom of the page for the template. Here is the one for European cinema http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:EuropeanCinema --Jahsonic 22:56, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zero 7

Hello. I have removed the copyvio text from your comment on Talk:Zero 7 and have responded to it. Please let me know if there are any problems (or simply post on that talk page!) Thanks. --Nick Catalano (Talk) 00:27, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ran (film)

I couldn't help but notice (Edit Wars, grrr...) that you resumed doing some revamp work on the Ran page. I'm getting another page ready for a Featured Article nomination (Battle of Badr) but afterwards I was going to turn my attention back to Ran, now that I have the Criterion Edition and Stephen Prince's "The Warrior's Camera". Let me know if you're interested in collaborating. (This probably wouldn't be for another week or so) Palm_Dogg 11:00, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

  • As you may guess from my User page, I tend to primarily edit entertainment articles that I'm interested in. Ran is in my watchlist, as I'd added the DVD cover pic back in August, not long after I'd bought and watched the film. However, I've only seen it once (too many DVDs to watch) and the recent revamping was done in repsonse to seeing the {{peerreview}} template, and the to assist with the systematic removal of unnecessary date links (try doing a whatlinkshere to a date article!). As such, I don't know how much help I'd be, but I'll certainly keep an eye on proceedings and provide some input if I can. Gram 11:20, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: Black Star

As long as they don't double-redirect, it's ussually not much of a problem. But if you want to bypass the redirects, that is of course a worthwhile task. --FuriousFreddy 22:19, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I've nominated the old Black Star redirects for deletion: Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion#February 8. Please comment there if you don't think the redirects should be deleted (after a small history merge from Black Star(Music)). Mike Dillon 01:07, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] East Asian Cinema

I notaced that the old eastern cinema article has been narrowed down into East Asian cinema - but isnt this a kinda unfair exclusion? Most people would consider India to be part of the east asian cultural block, especially given the closeness of South East Asian culture and film to Indian. Indian film, especially non-Bollywood industries, which produce regional language and art cinema, clearly support this view. The west asian cinema and culture starts with Iran - India should be included, or else, where exactly would you classify Indian cinema when it quite obiously isnt western? I strongly reccomend either including India in the east asian cinema article, or changing the entire thing back to eastern cinema - because the move seems to be one purely directed at excluding India, rather than one aimed at raising awareness. I would be glad to write that section if you wish. Vastu 05:23, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

My intention was to write an article which drew together the film industries of China, Hong Kong, Japan and South Korea, these being my area of interest, and the countries with the largest film industries in what I would know (possibly due to an Anglo-centric view) as "Eastern cinema" or "Far Eastern cinema" or "Oriental cinema". It was pointed out to me that Eastern cinema is a bit of a vague title, and to be geographically accurate, East Asia is a more appropriate term. I have since learned a little about the film industries of neighbouring countries (which would still fall geographically into East Asia), so I created the article and template to be inclusive of these areas.
I understand your gripe - what I meant by "Eastern cinema" is more correctly expressed and understood using the term "East Asian cinema". The move was not done to exclude anywhere, but to clarify my original intention.
I disagee that India should be included within this article, because I don't believe it is geographically accurate to do so. I would suggest that it is absolutely appropriate to have an "Indian cinema" article (actually Cinema of India already exists) and if you so wish, a relevant regional cinema article. Looking at the articles for East Asia and South Asia, it is clear that India falls into the latter, not the former, so your regional article would be South Asian cinema and should therefore contain summary info about the cinema of:
  • Bangladesh
  • Bhutan
  • India
  • Maldives
  • Nepal
  • Pakistan
  • Sri Lanka
and perhaps more...
Were a South Asian cinema article to exist, you could adopt the same template format I did (I originally copied it from European cinema). I would be more than happy to include references to a South Asian cinema article within this article.
Gram 14:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
My point is perhaps a very tenuous one - but basically, what im trying to say is the geographical boundry is purely a man-made construct - for example, Thailand, a heavily Indicised culture, is part of South East Asia - thus it is both East Asian and South Asian in terms of culture and geography - yet nobody would consider defining Thailand in the same catagory as South Asia - an article on South Asian cinema would not include Thailand, Indonesia, or another South-East Asian country, yet your article on East Asian cinema does include those countries. The East Asian name of the article is perhaps well defined - but isnt informative, because of this exclusionary paradox - my point is that it is eaither better to define eastern cinema in different terms (I would actually call it eastern cinema or oriental cienma and include South Asia), or be even more strict in the East Asian definition by removing countries of South-East Asia. India is not a middle eastern country, yet is doomed to be thought of as one, despite the fact that South-East Asia bears more cultural commonality with India than with East Asia, because modern racial profiling, to put it bluntly, classifys India on the basis of the superficial appearance of Indians - non "Mongoloid" as some old anthropologists would put it. Yet what is a human? We are made of our minds not our bodies - thus when classifying Eastern cinema, should India not be amongst its other Eastern peers? A counter argument might be that Indian cinema is stylistically different - yet no more stylistically different than Thai cinema from Japanese cinema. I should point out that above your compared the wiki article on East Asia and South Asia - well those very articles illustrate the problem, since the East Asian one infact dosent include Thai and Malay lands.. Vastu 19:27, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, when I started this article I asked for assistance in several places, and little was forthcoming, so I carried on in my own vein (albeit with an admittedly limited geographical knowledge). As mentioned, the key film industries in my intended focus were those of China, Hong Kong, Japan and South Korea, as films from these countries are becoming significantly more successful in the West. I was able to add Taiwan as it too had a cinema article. I couldn't find any Cinema of Mongolia, Cinema of Vietnam or Cinema of Macau articles.
Some of the info I garnered was from the Far East article, an article, which in its opening sentence says "an inexact term often used for East Asia and Southeast Asia combined". As this article was initially called Eastern cinema I felt this to be the relevant starting point, but since moving the article "East Asian cinema" to be more geographically accurate, I've perhaps been remiss in leaving in countries that are technically in Southeast Asia - Singapore, Thailand and Malaysia (someone else added Philippines).
So the solution I would propose is to be, as you say, more strict with the definition. To remain as geographically accurate as possible we should split this article into "East Asian cinema" and "Southeast Asian cinema". I stand by my assertion that "Cinema of India" belongs in a "South Asian cinema" article. And again, there is nothing wrong with these articles referencing one another.
Geographical boundaries may well be man-made, but they are also universally recognisable. If anyone was willing to do the work, I would argue that a continental "parent" article be written too, entitled "Asian cinema", which could draw together East Asian cinema, Southeast Asian cinema, South Asian cinema and beyond.
And one final point - I created an article entitled Asian cinema purely as a redirect to this article. I concede that this is inaccurate, but did so because in my experience, Americans say Asian when they mean East Asian (wheras Brits are more likely to say Oriental). Similarly, Brits often say Asian when they mean South Asian. If proper articles for Asian cinema, South Asian cinema and Southeast Asian cinema were written, this issue would be resolved and the articles would have more educational value.
Gram 23:28, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Right, I've gone ahead and created a basic Southeast Asian cinema article and template, and have split the East Asian cinema article and template as appropriate. I had a little trouble with the templates, which hopefully someone will assist with (think I may have created them twice). I've also stopped the Asian cinema article from being a redirect to East Asian cinema, making a very basic stub. I've made reference in each of these 3 articles to South Asian cinema Gram 00:22, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

That seems to be the best solution then - thanks for changing it - I will check the new articles out later, and try to help with their content if I can. Vastu 06:53, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


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[edit] World cinema navigation template

Hi Gram. There's discussion going on here, at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Films#New Cinema navigation box, about a box that would go at the bottom of world cinema articles like the ones you started for South American cinema, Asian cinema, etc. There's some confusion and concern about some things, like maybe Cuba and Puerto Rico being better grouped under a Latin Americam cinema article and Turkey's presence in the middle east. Maybe you could add your voice to the proceedings? What do you think? Take care. — WiseKwai 17:59, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] South to Latin America ?

Hi Gram123, thanks for giving opinion on the world navigation. I hope you approve of the template as it mentions sub-regions without splitting vertically. Under 800x600 resolution it really hurt. One thing is the South American cinema. Can it become Latin America to include all countries from Mexico down. The merge to "Americas" is maybe not the best, but given the few of countries of N.America, it makes the template smaller. I've started a section for such issues in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Films#Notes on "Cinema of (Country)" series and would appreciate if you post your opinion there. Thanks. Hoverfish 15:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] Notice

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[edit] WP:Films Newsletter

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[edit] Middle Eastern cinema

Hi Gram, there is plenty of sourced evidence that cinema of Iran/Persia doesn't fall under Middle Eastern cinema. Look in my tak page, if you like, for links to sites and google search results about the issue and if you like take a look about Egypt etc. I am trying to come up with some rearrangments, if possible, so I would be glad to have your opinion on all this. I know we've been through all this in WP Films before, but even so. Hoverfish Talk 23:13, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm quite with you in that since we are doing this by geographic boundaries, we should keep it regional. There is no big deal subdividing India to cultural/language zones, like it's no big deal to divide Africa into Arab/non-Arab (or maybe North to indicate Arab countries) for cultural reasons. But when it comes to Asia, I am all for going exclusively by regions. To avoid the Middle East dillema (Turkey is also in this), although a very well-known term, there is the widely acceptable alternative term "Western Asia", which takes in all Middle East (Arab and non-Arab), Turkey and as deep as Iraq (if they had any cinema before "liberation"). But even if we let Middle East as it is (with Turkey in it), Iran/Persia should go to another zone, and since we don't use the generic "Asian cinema" before subdividing, we could place it quite acceptably in South Asian Cinema. Iran, Afganistan and Pakistan are regionally together and they can all be said to be South Asia. Hoverfish Talk 18:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FAC

Hi Gram! Just in case you have time:

I would like to have your comments on my recent work for further improvement. Any suggestion will be very much appreciated. Thanks. Sangak 18:30, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Film template

Hi Gram123! There is important talk about the film template. Your opinion would be appreciated in Template talk:Film. Thanks. Hoverfish Talk 09:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New WP Films department started

The Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/List and navigation management department has started and you are welcome and encouraged to participate. Hoverfish Talk 08:49, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] American films

Please please!!! help fill in List of American films. Even if it is just a few details it all helps -any contribution you can make will be more than appreciated!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "Expecting you" Contribs 17:19, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template:East Asian cinema and Template:East Asian Cinema

Hi! I noticed that one of the above templates seems to be redundant. Since you worked on both of them, I think you might have a better idea which one. Greetings, Yaan 19:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Thanks for pointing that out. I did a special:whatlinkshere/ on both templates - the former had about 12 links, and the latter only 2. Easiest thing was to amend the links of the 2, so the capitalised "Template:East Asian Cinema" can now be deleted. I had a quick look at some of the other similar templates, and they're not standardised (either in capitalisation or in the actual format of the templates), which would probably be a worthwhile task. I'll note it at Films WikiProject and see if we can get agreed format. Gram123 12:12, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

HI Gram. I was considering starting some new Cinema of articles ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "Expecting you" Contribs 21:27, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New template

Hello, Just to inform you that I have created a new template Template:Jackie Chan films to list most, if not all of the films Chan has starred in. Cheers.--Kylohk 13:29, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A friendly reminder on British spelling

Hello, I noticed that you've changed all "rigour" into "rigor" in editing the Jackie Chan article. Please note that the former spelling is the British spelling version, and is recommended since the subject is from Hong Kong, which uses British English. (Hence the spelling should be consistently British)--Kylohk 13:26, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Hi Kylohk. I'm British myself. The English spelling of "rigour" does indeed have a "u" in it, but we drop the "u" in "rigorous" and "rigorously". I was sure I was right, but then you undid the edit, so this time I spell-checked with a UK English dictionary and also searched Dictionary.com for "rigourously" (no entries). So I'm afraid it's your spelling at fault this time! Keep up the good work. Gram123 13:38, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyedit request for Jackie Chan

The featured article candidate "Jackie Chan" has had another oppose, calling for another person to copyedit it. So, I'd be grateful if you could provide some assistance. Cheers.--Kylohk 12:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Copyedit request for Rob-B-Hood

Hello, it's me again. I've been working on the article on the Jackie Chan film Rob-B-Hood, and would like another person to take a look at the prose. If you are free, please copy-edit it. Thank you.--Alasdair 02:47, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Bey Logan

You know, I watch a lot of Hong Kong action cinema, but have yet to listen to a Bey Logan commentary track. Then most of DVDs I get are the Hong Kong releases. I guess that's why. The filmography list is as good a place as any to list the Bey Logan's commentaries. Good move. — WiseKwai 14:30, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] WikiProject Films roll call

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[edit] Jon Kennedy

I've gone through Jon Kennedy and related articles deleting the libelous edits from the articles' histories. I know you have created and/or edited many of these articles. Can you check and see if I have missed any? Please let me know and I'll selectively delete any more bad edits you find. Thanks. --Ed (Edgar181) 13:48, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Preity Zinta FA

Hi there. The Preity Zinta article has recently achieved A-class status. Due to the wealth of support I have decided to now nominate for an FA class article which I believe and judging by the comments of others is pretty much up to. In my view it is better than some existing FA actor articles. I would therefore be very grateful if you could give it a final review in your own time and leave your comments and views at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Preity Zinta. Thankyou, your comments are always valuable. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "Talk"? 10:57, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Film template

Thank you for pointing that out. I have removed the links and the template has been deleted. Cheers, RyanGerbil10(Говорить!) 06:19, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Template:East Asian Cinema

A tag has been placed on Template:East Asian Cinema requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes.

Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:05, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

  • This template was a duplicate, with incorrect capitalisation and can now be deleted. The format of the other template (with correct capitalisation), Template:East Asian cinema has now been amended to match the other templates of this type. Gram123 (talk) 09:07, 31 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] FYI

The Entertainers (NUFC) is up for Afd MickMacNee (talk) 05:01, 31 January 2008 (UTC) MickMacNee (talk) 05:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Films January 2008 Newsletter

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[edit] Breakout Native Titles

Per your request of 7 Februrary that you left on my alternate talk page — I have reformated those filmographies:

Sammo Hung & Yuen Biao & Yuen Wah

I wasn't satisfied with the default column widths, I use M$ IE7, so I allocated percentages to the columns, depending upon your own browser, you may want to change those numbers.

WurmWoodeT 07:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] WikiProject Films coordinator elections

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[edit] Unintuitive links

Hi, one of the articles I watch, Taegukgi (film), was recently edited by you here, in order to provide links to film articles. I disagree with this change, mostly the second link, because it is not intuitive.

Your edit was to change:

"a [[2004]] [[South Korean]] [[war film]] directed..."

to

"a [[2004 in film|2004]] [[Cinema of South Korea|South Korean]] [[war film]] directed...."

I do not think the words "South Korea(n)" should link to Cinema of South Korea, even though that is the specific aspect of SK we are talking about. It is not logical to have this poorly written sentence as a lead, because without mousing-over, can you guess where they lead?

Lee Myung-bak is the 2008 South Korean President...

Is it 2008 in general or 2008 in Korea? Does "South Korea" link to Government of SK or the nation page for SK? Does President lead to President of SK or President? That sentence follows the same logic as yours. Links have to leave absolutely zero room for doubt where they lead, otherwise it confuses and frustrates the reader. Consider Forrest Gump, which starts off like this:

Forrest Gump is a [irrelevant] based on the 1986 novel of the same name by Winston Groom and the name of the title character of both.

This is an absurd sentence! Besides the stylistic horror of using "1986 novel of the same name" as the link text, it hides the link and isn't obvious. The character link is even worse. Although Forrest Gump (character) is the title character, why don't the words "title character" link to title character (Title role) or even eponym (eponymous)? (Also, it's badly written: the book was named after the character, and the film after the book, but transitive properties are redundant in prose: A is named after B and C, and C is the name of A and B)

Links that say South Korea(n) should universally go to South Korea. The best solution I can think of is to link like this: "it is [[Cinema of South Korea|South Korean film]]" but we lose the "war film" link, and that might produce heckling from another camp. If it is a guideline on the Film Project, let me know and I will bring my concerns there. ALTON .ıl 22:50, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Categories and sub-categories

Category:Star Wars films is placed in a bunch of genre categories so it doesn't have to be repeated in every single film of the series. That's no different from what I did with the Once Upon a Time in China films. I replaced "Category:Cantonese-language films", "Category:Hong Kong films", "Category:Kung fu films" with "Category:Once Upon a Time in China series" (with itself is in the Cantonese, HK and kung fu categories).--Nohansen (talk) 16:54, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Films April 2008 Newsletter

The April 2008 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 01:04, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Help needed in Hong Kong Legends, The Protector (1985 film)

I've seen your edits in history on both articles and it helps very well. How would you like if you can help me turn those articles into something interesting to read about. Right now, I couldn't do it alone although I did my best by introducing Hong Kong Legends and added another version in The Protector to make it more interesting to read. I would be happy if you can help 'cause right now it's near impossible to find materials from various websites that I can add to make it worth it if someone decides to research for their homework for example. Answer me in my talk page if you're willing to help. Johnnyauau2000 (talk) 23:57, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Films May 2008 Newsletter

The May 2008 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 19:58, 31 May 2008 (UTC)