User:Merbabu/Archive10

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Contents 1 {{Indonesia-geo-stub}} 2 Indonesia FA 3 You deserve it 4 Good work, man 5 KG and Kng 6 Permisi pak 7 Congrats! 8 Main page day for Indonesia 9 Indonesia 10 Melano Supriatno 11 ==United States== 12 My words for the day 13 AGF 14 jakarta topic 15 heheh 16 Re: Track lengths... 17 Tan Malaka 18 Royal anthem 19 Thanks Merbabu 20 Upright 21 Canvassing 22 Re: Taj El-Din Hilaly and 'pov' tag 23 Bono 24 Aust 25 Architecture 26 Evolution of the Portuguese Empire 27 United States of Indonesia 28 Round Table Conference (Western New Guinea) 29 Weird 30 Need Help, Please 31 Request for comments 32 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Republik_Indonesia_Serikat.png 33 Yayasan Senyum --> Smile Foundation of Bali 34 Thanks 35 My first original article - would love your feedback! 36 Sepi 37 Maps 38 Rambutan 39 u2 wikiproject 40 U2 41 re: u2 wikiproject 42 re: re: u2 wikiproject 43 MSN 44 Removal of {{WikiProject U2}} template from Talk:Bono Stupid Chupper :) 45 u2 wikipedia newletter 46 Kalimantan and Borneo 47 U2 wikiproject assessment 48 DY sock 49 Its a mess 50 Re: I thought that was OK... 51 WikiProject U2 June 2007 Newsletter 52 collab of month 53 Regarding the article on ER 54 Thank you 55 My mistake

{{Indonesia-geo-stub}}

I'm stopping work, but I have to say that I am rather confused by your opposition. Could you please state your specific concerns and objections? I cannot discuss if you don't first tell me what you are thinking. Aelfthrytha 04:09, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I did already explain the rationale on the project page, and have been waiting for your reply. Aelfthrytha 17:11, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I apologize if you found my tone upsetting, and I agree that I probably did overreact. However, when you requested that I consult with you, I (as mentioned on Alai's talk page) did not understand exactly what it was you wanted me to explain or what you were concerned about. Because I haven't been involved in previous edits, I didn't know about the history of problems which SatuSaro has explained. I can definitely sympathize with that considering that we have the same problem with people coming into stub sorting and making messes for us as well. That said, I also feel like some of the comments you made on my talk page were on the harsh side. In any event, I'm glad this has been worked out. Are there any further things you'd like me to explain or modify about the split? Aelfthrytha 02:40, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

One thing you might want to go over on a project level would be the stubs remaining after I split, as they'll be the weakest articles (and thus I won't be able to split them because they don't even list a province). Also, you might look round at the articles in general because there have been more than a few which link to something that has nothing to do with Indonesia. When I find those, I've been setting up disambiguation pages which have a redlink for a future article about some Indonesian place - at least that way the groundwork is there for you guys when you get to it. I'll let you know when the split's complete so you can check the remaining articles. Should be done tonight. Aelfthrytha 00:49, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

That's usually how it works. But I'll let you in on a trick. Whenever I do the first runthrough for a big split like this, I just open up to the province's main article, open up all the regencies and cities, and tag all of the ones from one province at a time. Goes a lot faster that way, but there's the slow part - which I'm on now - of going through the rest, reading, sorting, one by one. Oh well, done bigger splits than this one, I suppose. What I love best about the geo-stub splitting is that I get to learn the geographies of all different countries quite well. Good for the brain. Aelfthrytha 00:57, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I looked at all the provinces and regencies listed on List of regencies and cities of Indonesia - so that trick is mostly played out. I'm going down the alphabet now and I'm at the R's - if you want to work, maybe you could start at the end of the alphabet so we don't interfere with each other, meet in the middle? Aelfthrytha 03:09, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Done. Give it a looksie and let me know what you think. Aelfthrytha 03:36, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I am very very happy with the outcome and have given a star of endless rotation for that - its solved a huge range of problems for me for a start! SatuSuro 02:31, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, some of them definitely would still need the plain old indonesia-stub. As for the others, there are several articles which don't definitively state their province, so I didn't sort them out. Aelfthrytha 03:47, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Indonesia FA

Yes, the article has been promoted. Congratulations!!! I've seen you work tirelessly to get this done, you certainly deserve most of the credit. Greetings, --Victor12 03:58, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

		The Geography Barnstar
		BrianSmithson hereby awards Merbabu this Geography Barnstar for getting Indonesia to Featured Article status.

Congratulations! I see you already have a Barnstar of National Merit, so you'll have to accept this one instead. You deserve it for running the FA gauntlet and surviving. I hope to see your work at FAC again in the near future. — Brian (talk) 05:19, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

thanks - i would indeed like to get involved in the FA process. I might do a bit of reviewing - nominating has left me a bit exhausted for now, but I have a few in mind that I'd like to bring to FAC. Indonesian National Revolution comes to mind, as does Indonesian architecture (although this isn't even GA yet). And U2 hangs around in limbo. sigh. thanks for all your help - and the other reviewers. It is a much better article for it. Merbabu 05:27, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

FA for Indonesia was by no means my effort alone. Other users who have invested much time over the last year include User:Imoeng, User:Caniago and User:Indon - and more. Merbabu 05:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

You deserve it

		The Barnstar of National Merit
		Before you excuse yourself that this is not your only work, but it is your effort to make Indonesia article as Featured Article. Congrats!! You deserve this barnstar and even more because you're not even an Indonesian. Perhaps I can give you tanda jasa kehormatan negara, but I'm not a president yet. ;-) — Indon (reply) — 11:42, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Man, way to go! As an appreciation, maybe I'll raise Sydney to FA. But, I'm a Melbournian, lol. Imoeng 13:50, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Good work, man

I'm not currently working on any of the same articles as you, but as someone interested in Indonesia I noticed everything you've done for this site. Keep up the good work man, I am really very impressed. MezzoMezzo 15:45, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Not sure. I've done a few small edits on the article for Indonesia and other related articles. We've probably bumped into one another at some point. MezzoMezzo 19:16, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

KG and Kng

Great minds? I was just about to ask you - with the Kota Gede and Kaliurang - and there you are - with some of the Java stubsSatuSuro 03:48, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Just noticed your hard work this am (ok your mid day) - and realised I am a bit behind. real life takes me elsewhere for a while - if youre on later today id like a g chat about some of it if poss - its great stuff! SatuSuro 03:56, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Permisi pak

Coba mencari tempat ber-apa apa tetapi tempat diam SatuSuro 10:45, 2 June 2007 (UTC) Arrgh sabtu malam dan orang g--- mencari makan dari artikel dan chomp chomp, disini full moon - hospital emergency always busier SatuSuro 11:30, 2 June 2007 (UTC) memeriksa tempat gmail untuk lihat tempat gila SatuSuro 11:40, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Congrats!

Congrats on getting Indonesia featured. Let's hope to see some more featured articles. I have a tip for you: Use {{convert}} whereever possible. Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:17, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Main page day for Indonesia

Have you considered the main page request for Indonesia? We can ask for a specific date, but I don't know about the rule. It says we can ask specific date in one month time. I think 17 August is the best, don't you think?

sudah mas ;) [1]. Actually, that's just a query direct to Raul, I will follow your link. Would be great, huh? Merbabu 01:50, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I just checked that request page - it says that requests must be made within 30 days. So that means we can't request til after 17 July if I am not mistaken. Merbabu 04:07, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Indonesia

Hi Merbabu. Congrats on the Indonesia article becoming FA. I'm sorry I didn't respond to your copyediting request in time, but it looks like no harm done (it appears that you and the reviewers were dealing with some subtleties of meaning beyond copyediting anyway, with the last comment you left me). –Outriggr § 03:56, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Melano Supriatno

Could you be kind enough to provide page numbers please - having problems with the references provided. Thank you SatuSuro 13:33, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I might provide those later. -)-(-H- (|-|) -O-)-(- 13:35, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

specific pages refs are required - specially if there is little mention in the indexes :) SatuSuro 13:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Haggawaga - that would be good. He seems interesting. I've been working on a few Indonesian National Revolution articles (including Indonesian National Revolution and any more specific references would be useful. You seem to have done a lot of work on this article - nice one. :) I'm now working on Amir_Sjarifuddin - check it out. happy editing. Merbabu 13:43, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

You might search on google, but I'm not sure what you'll find. I can tell you, that I took the picture of the rebel Supriata myself. It was in the summer of 1967, that I saw him in Indonesia when on a trip to land (I was a sailorman and worked with the engine of a transport-ship). Indonesia than was allready independant for over 10 years (oficially since 1949), and so he wasn't a rebel back than. He looked older han he was, around 55 years old, but you could see he lived trough tough life. He agreed with me taking a picture of him. Its not the only one; I believe, I might have some pictures of which I'm standing next to Supriata. Does that provide enough information for the moment. I am the number one specialist about him on this wikipedia, I suppose, although my knowledge of Indonesian history itself might be less great. e image itself is higly styled; I'm not sure, but maybe its oiginally in colour. Anyway, thanks for your interest, SatuSuro. -)-(-H- (|-|) -O-)-(- 13:47, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think I meeted him. He wasn't called Melano Supriatna, and I believe Supriata was just a nickname, as he told me. But I couldn't move the page, because a redirection page was allready made. I didn't started the article, at first. That was Kermanshahi's work. I was a sailorman, as I said. Look for a picture of me at wikipedia:facebook. I took it yesterday, in order to let users know who their dealin' with; my grandson also uses my account sometimes, and it even got the account n trouble because of my password remory which he'd abused to log in and do vandalism (not meant to do any harm , I suppose). -)-(-H- (|-|) -O-)-(- 14:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

==United States==

It appears that the issues you had with the article are largely resolved. Has it reached the point where support is warranted, or is there anything else that needs fixed? Also, please note that the TOC has been cut in half and the article has remained at ~60k of prose, well within WP:LENGTH since you likely saw it last. MrZaius^talk 14:21, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

My words for the day

Pull another one mate SatuSuro 00:06, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

That whole 'group' is fishy - not just the article. You saw the check user showing that they were all from the same computer? But, they claimed they were all at the same school at were given the benefit of the doubt. Gnang did his best though. Merbabu 00:26, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

You removed your cribb and I have just removed my anderson. off to pick the kid up. cheers SatuSuro 11:34, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

AGF

I have my reasons for assuming good faith. However, if he continues to be disruptive and not heed warnings, i will gladly reccomend a 24 hour block. I am sorry if this is causing trouble, i have seen this editor make valid contributions to this project and feel he may be misguided. I may be assuming too much good faith so i will give him a final warning that if he creates another article without reliable sources that can be found by other editors confirming his articles he will be blocked. Thanks for your patience. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 12:37, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Um, where is my patience? He needs to show the reliable sources or delete it. Wikipedia is about verifiability - is that not the most fundamental of all wikipedia policies? In all my research on this period (yeah, I am actually familiar with the subject) I have seen nothing about this. The ed is clearly lying. Look at his talk page discussions. First he is an expert, then he can't remember because his information is based on talking to some bloke in the 1960s. Then when questioned further he says someone else is using his account (!?!?!?!). Plus, he is linked by check user to a bunch of sockpuppets and vandals. I;m not interested in a 24 hour block on an editor; the article needs to go - it brings wikipedia into disreupute. As for action against the editor, i will leave that up to someone else to be initiate, but i don't have any good reason to support him. Support for this article without Merbabu 12:46, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

PS, well that is something at least. Still means we have an unverified article. My suggestion would be rather than 'week keep' would be 'produce references in 4 days or delete without further question'. Thanks for taking and interest (really). :-) Merbabu 12:51, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, without references the article should go. I have told somebody else that I believe he is writing articles based on stories he was told or heard. I think this is most evident in his edits to Pier Gerlofs Donia or whatever his name is where he adds information that sounds like a fairy tale in a seemingly serious manner. Trust me, I understand the importance of WP:RS but did not always as my first articles were based on what I knew, not what sources I had (I think almost every single one of us makes that mistake). Now, the first thing before i write any article is a number of reiable verifiable sources. I respect your choice to delete and dont have a problem with it. I have EVERY reason to believe that the edits are in good faith,. I however realise that at some point i have to realize a lost cause. I have given him a final warning and if he does not heed it, I am all for his blocking.(chris forgot to sign)

Yeah, that's fine. To be honest, I am not overly concerned about a blocking - although I would reverse that 100% if he is indeed part of the sock farm that check user says he is and has never been explained. ie, see the vandal User:Murlock. Let's give it a few more days. After all, wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. thanks. Merbabu 12:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Please remeber that a share IP does not in fact mean the same person. If I were to go to a coffee shop and use the wireless, i would have the same IP as everybody there. I share the same IP with everybody I work with, as well as at school. I believe that they are a group of people who know each other (family, friends, co workers) however not the same person. This is just a theory though.-- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 13:05, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, OK. They didn't do themselves any favours by editing each others userpages, and the same hoax articles. I take your point though. regards Merbabu 13:07, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I think Chris is being very practical and realistic - if there really was a 'memory' of somebody - similar to the problems that I have with how to do 'cerita rakyat' issues in the Indonesian project - I still have to find something that will correlate or verify. I await with a deep aniticipatory curiosity as to what occurs next... SatuSuro 13:02, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Chris has the same good outcome in mind that I have - we just chose different paths to get there. lol. I guess I just have in the back of my mind, the quote from somewhere in WP:ATT pr WP:RS that we don't write from 'i heard it somewhere' but from published resources. thanks guys. Merbabu 13:07, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with that 100%. I regularly by books, magazines, anything if feel that i can use to properly reference an article. I am not condoning writing from memory, I am however stating myt heory as to why it is not a hoax and why i am assuming good faith. Writing a story from memory is a good faith mistake. writing a hoax is bad faith. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 13:10, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

jakarta topic

Hi, Thanks for your comment. I dont think there are too many images in the jakarta topic. I found other cities like kuala lumpur and singapore have also more images than jakarta.

heheh

arrgghh - hi thanks for that. one wonders SatuSuro 13:55, 9 June 2007 (UTC) aarrgghhhh - have been trying to getoff for an hour now - various things keep cropping up. off to chop a tree down now :( SatuSuro 04:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC) OZ tralyans let ush allrejoice for we are .... gawd, theres a novel in all that SatuSuro 13:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Track lengths...

I could have sworn the WP:ALBUM#Track listing guideline actually explicitly recommended including track lengths. I guess you're right that we don't explicitly do so, and only implies it by that example. A vast majority of all album articles do include track lengths in line with that example, so in practice it does act as a guideline. If you wish to argue that track listings should not include track lengths, please do so at WT:ALBUM. Surely you agree that this is a question about album articles in general, rather than this specific one. As for whether the track lengths are notable, I see your argument, but suspect a majority will disagree, based on the prevalence of track lengths in album articles. Therefore, I will propose the guideline be changed to make the guideline explicitly recommend including track lengths, to be consistent with the de facto standard. --PEJL 09:27, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Wow - thanks for giving such a considered response. Of course, my argument is not based on the UF album, but all albums. But, I really think that creating a standard simply because it is anticipated most editors will agree with it is, in my opinion, back to front thinking. Would it not be better (in theory at least), to raise the issue, then see what the consensus is?

Having said that, I believe you are correct in saying most people would probably (and unfortunately) rather have the track durations there, but I suspect that simply mirrors editors general bias and wikipedia's systematic bias towards keeping every little bit of information, no matter how useful or irrelevant. kind regards Merbabu 09:36, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that raising the issue first would be better. Please do so. Let me know if you intend to do so (or just do it) and I'll hold off on recommending the wording be tightened pending the outcome of that discussion. Have a nice day. --PEJL 09:50, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Ping. If you're not going to raise this issue, I will propose making track length recommended. --PEJL 13:37, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Please, go ahead. I will most likely oppose but will read and consider your proposal first. (ha ha) Cheers and kind regards. Merbabu 13:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

A proposal has been made, see WT:ALBUM#Should track listings include lengths? --PEJL 16:18, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Tan Malaka

Hi Merbabu, I was just quickly adding some relevant information about Malaka's death, derived from a newspaper article about Poeze's new book. I expect anyone to feel free to improve my English. Ciao! Lestari 10:01, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Royal anthem

I'm not saying you don't understand how Wikipedia works, but I'm not sure that you grasp how consensus works in this instance. If you look at the history of the royal anthem in the template for Australia, here's what we see:

• 10:56, 22 August 2006 PDH Insert
• ooo Stable for several months ooo
• 17:00, 9 May 2007 Alec mcc Remove
• 10:44, 14 May 2007 Mastronarde Restore
• 10:33, 20 May 2007 Alec mcc Remove
• 12:04, 20 May 2007 Mastronarde Restore
• 20:22, 28 May 2007 Alec mcc Remove
• 22:28, 29 May 2007 Mastronarde Restore
• 22:31, 29 May 2007 Alec mcc Remove
• 12:47, 30 May 2007 Vox latina Restore
• 00:39, 31 May 2007 Alec mcc Remove
• 07:15, 31 May 2007 Lacrimosus Restore
• 10:25, 31 May 2007 Merbabu Remove
• 10:31, 31 May 2007 Skyring Restore
• 10:33, 31 May 2007 Tony1 Remove
• 11:06, 31 May 2007 Skyring Restore
• 11:34, 31 May 2007 Alec mcc Remove
• 12:12, 31 May 2007 Skyring Restore
• 16:12, 31 May 2007 Alec mcc Remove
• 17:53, 31 May 2007 Lacrimosus Restore
• 18:03, 31 May 2007 Alec mcc Remove
• 01:20, 2 June 2007 Lexicon Restore
• 01:56, 3 June 2007 Merbabu Remove
• 08:02, 3 June 2007 Skyring Restore
• 13:44, 3 June 2007 Merbabu Remove
• 15:08, 3 June 2007 Vox latina Restore
• 15:10, 3 June 2007 Alec mcc Remove
• ooo Call for consensus to remove, none found. ooo
• 05:21, 11 June 2007 Skyring Restore

I think that it is clear that between 9 May and 3 June, there was an edit war being conducted and clearly Alec mcc's edit was regarded as contentious. If we look at those who actually felt moved to edit this information, we see three editors (Alec mcc, Tony1, and Merbabu) wanting it removed and five (Mastronarde, Vox latina, Lacrimosus, Skyring, and Lexicon) wishing to keep it. Obviously if you want to perform the contentious act of removing the royal anthem from the template, you need a consensus to do so, and I can't see one. --Pete 10:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Merbabu

Thanks for the heads up on the SMH article. I go to the SMH quite a bit for the references as A. they're fairly reliable and non-partisan, and B. they keep their content online seemingly indefinately. I live in San Francisco and unfortunately don't get to see the real paper version much anymore.

Thanks for the help on Al-Mukmin Islamic school. I plan to in the future convert all of those red links to blue. Have a great day. Prester John 15:02, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Upright

Cheers. My initial reaction is that it is a crappy solution to a big problem. Hesperian 05:17, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

...if only because "upright=0.5" achieves a general image rescaling relative to the thumb size, so should be called something like "scale" or "ratio". "Upright" is a terrible name - it refers not to the feature but to one of the potential uses of the feature. Hesperian 05:24, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Canvassing

The postings Pete made to the two users who had edited in relation to the dispute constitute friendly notices, and are excepted. The post he made to Talk:Commonwealth of Nations, however, was an overt and biased solicitation, which is precisely what the guideline aims to prevent.--cj | talk 05:56, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Taj El-Din Hilaly and 'pov' tag

I don't know if this article has only recently come under your scrutiny, but POV has been a long-standing problem with it. There are sections in the talkpage which concern that issue; for instance, this one and this one (granted, whoever started the latter one isn't presenting a very good case, but it's still there as an example). Most of the sections on controversies relate directly to the problem also.

I didn't add another section specifically to do with the inclusion of the tag because I felt it would be repetition. I stuck the tag on several months ago when I realised that it didn't have one, in spite of the discussion in the talkpage over controversies and one-sided content. In any case, if it is standard policy to create a specific section to do with the addition of the tag - if it is policy not to add one otherwise, or to remove added tags otherwise - then I would like you to point this part of Wikipedia policy out to me. Otherwise, this is just nitpicking. A brief scan through the article is enough to indicate that it's not balanced (just sourcing statements isn't enough). The casual reader will not find it well-rounded.

All parties are interested in improving the article; it doesn't make sense, in this case, to argue over whether or not the tag should be added because the point behind the tag will still stand, even if it isn't. -- Shoejar^talk/edits 12:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Bono

Sources are supposed to be provided, not thought of. Where are the sources for the two statements you amended? -- 86.17.211.191 10:35, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

PS - A magazine cover from 2006 is not a valid source for statements about 2004, 2005 and 2006. -- 86.17.211.191 10:37, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Aust

Hi Merbabu, I've made some points on the consistency with Commonwealth countries issue at User talk:BigHaz that might be of use, I have decided not to engage anymore on the Aust talk page as it doesn't seem to get me anywhere, but I'm not happy the conversation is going back to the consistency issue. Cheers, WikiTownsvillian 18:11, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Architecture

With regard to the pics, the page is better laid out if they are all the same width (in this case), with the exception of the Florence shot, which I had much larger to show a city and the effect of the dome within it. Make the picture small and you lose the point. You also end up with five lines of cluttered text, where there were two lines, relative to the picture, ie, describing the affect of the dome on an entire cityscape. One of the pics that you reduced was actually three pictures in one, making the point that architects did this, and this, and this.

I realise in most of the articles that you look at, pictures are fairly randomly placed and don't necessarily enhance the text. But in anything that I have had to do with, the pics have been searched for and selected for the best possible size and composition in order to go with each other, and colour and tone adjusted to the truest effect if possible. Please don't change them! --Amandajm 11:49, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Evolution of the Portuguese Empire

Hello Merbabu! 500 px is okay for me. See you around. Cheers! The Ogre 13:48, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

no worries. :-) --Merbabu 13:50, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

United States of Indonesia

Hi, by all means e-mail the maps. I plan to produce one showing the Van Mook line next. I'm basing them on Kahin's Nationalism and Revolution in Indonesia, which I found in a secnd-hand bookshop the other day. By the way, that (and your adding the talk page to Dutch-Indonesian Round Table Conference) was very fast - are you following me? :-) Davidelit 13:57, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Round Table Conference (Western New Guinea)

Hi again. I've just spotted this page: Round Table Conference (Western New Guinea). It only covers the issues related to Papua, but there is some useful information. It seems to me the best approach would be to merge the two articles, but I think "Dutch-Indonesian Round Table Conference" would be a better title. Any thoughts? Davidelit 16:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

References shouldn't be a problem. Ricklefs covers most of the pints in the article, and if all else fails, I have a primary source - an original (and rather yellowed) copy of the proceedings, with the full text of the agreement. Davidelit 17:32, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Weird

Weird SatuSuro 11:00, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Need Help, Please

Halo, boleh minta tolong... I need help editing Agni Pratistha, Artika Sari Devi, and Nadine Chandrawinata please. I'm trying to upload some pics of them, but I'm using Dial-Up so it always disconnected. Anyhoo, I wanted to move a pic that already exists in Indonesian Wiki portal, because I want to upload it to the main wiki portal. The original pics and tags are Copyright and used by permission. File such http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkas:Nadine_Chandrawinata.jpg This is okay, right? Thanks! HoneyBee 11:45, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Request for comments

Can you please give your comments at WP:ANI. Thanks. --- A. L. M. 15:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Republik_Indonesia_Serikat.png

Hi again. The map I uploaded has been tagged as "insufficient copyright info" and tagged for deletion! I have asked Indon (as the creator of the background image) for help, but he has been very quiet of late. Do you know much about wiki Commons copyright procedures? I don't want to claim the map is entirely my own work - seems a bit cheeky, but if all else fails, I may have to. Any thoughts or suggestions gratefully received. Davidelit 03:31, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Yayasan Senyum --> Smile Foundation of Bali

Hi, I just made the above move and am unsure if there is anything else I should fix-up re your having added it to Wikipedia:WikiProject Indonesia. Feel free to move it back if there's a policy I don't know about. Terima Kasih in advance. --Jack Merridew 10:29, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the banner, Merbabu. Sorry for leaving you alone in the project. I think I have some a bit spare time today for WP, so I'll see what I can do and what I have left. Oh, next time? I dunno, it's a bit exhausted for FA, right? Maybe Borobudur, but I can't do it alone. Oh ya, I still owe you some maps, but Davidelit has created one (I saw his message above). — Indon (reply) — 11:00, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

My first original article - would love your feedback!

Hi Merbabu. I've finally moved from twiddling with existing articles to starting one of my own. Check out sulukan and tell me what you think. Too clunky? Too academic? Insufficiently user-friendly? I'm trying to learn how to do this thing properly and I greatly appreciate the help you've given me so far. Tim Byard-Jones 14:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Sepi

Its so bloody cold here I am wearing tassie blizzard gear - dont expect to hear from me till the weather changes :| cheers SatuSuro 14:05, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

It's the same over here in Australia. ;-) Merbabu 14:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Good one, I'll remember that when I'm sitting by the fire - bit like when i lived in tassie and talked about the mainlanders in certain ways :( SatuSuro 14:09, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Maps

Actually, I hate to see myself slowing you down to contribute here and hate to see myself cannot fulfill my own words. (*sigh*) I saw Davidelit's map, it's already good actually. — Indon (reply) — 15:13, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Rambutan

Hi, I'm afraid I know nothing about Indonesia! I picked the username 'cos I liked the fruit, but thanks for the compliment!--Rambutan (talk) 15:47, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

u2 wikiproject

hey! thanks for your interest, if u hav time please help out wit the project. if not thanks again

U2

Well, I'm afraid I'm a total square, living back in 18th-century Europe. I've heard of Elvis and the Beatles, but that's about all.

I wonder whether the League of Copyeditors might be able to help. I'm rather taken up with real-life work at the moment (and this accursed squabble with dumb music theorists). I'll try to have a quick look at the w/end. Tony 13:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

re: u2 wikiproject

i have added this to all the talk pages of the people u have told me about:

Hi, I've seen you frequently around the article U2 and other related articles. Please consider joining the U2 WikiProject. If you would like to join, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project. Thank you for your time.

re: re: u2 wikiproject

i read about the assessments but i didnt really understand them. go ahead and make pages or whatever you need to use assessments. thanks alot. and there is no ruch on it.

MSN

Man, hows it going? Can you, um, get online, cause I want to give few tips to "This user is a founder of the WikiProject U2". But you know, better to give them through you. Thanks man - Imoeng 07:12, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Removal of {{WikiProject U2}} template from Talk:Bono Stupid Chupper :)

Hey sir. I was wondering why the {{WikiProject U2}} template was removed from Bono's talk page. Are you guys holding off on posting these until something gets finalized, or...? When I saw the project was created I figured I might as well get started posting those to all U2 related articles. C you around, Chupper 13:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about that - I was sooooooooo lazy when looking at the difference between revisions all I saw was the removal of the template, not that you were removing the redundant tag. Haha, classic me. Sorry to bug you. Chupper 13:38, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

u2 wikipedia newletter

i only read your paragraph on the newsletter now (i must have missed it) which was posted on my talk page. i wanted to have a newsletter to let all the people who are not members know what we do and what the project is about so we can maybe recruit more members. if you have any ideas for it just comment on the Newsletter Talk Page. all ideas are welcome and if you want to take part in the editing of it, you are very welcome. i have a rough draft of the first one which i plan to release on july 1st but if you want to make edits to it, i can move the release date. i plan to release one every month or so. if you are certin you will edit it, i will link you to where it is but delete the comment after (and add it to your favs which i have done). i know its not much but i dont want it to be released until the date just to have new material at some stage in the project. also if you are writing the assessment page it is all yours. thanks. wb soon with answers. smithcool 22:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Kalimantan and Borneo

I totally and passionately agree. But I don't know who is that German editor you were talking about, sorry.... Matahari Pagi 09:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

That might be me (User:T.woelk). More on the roads between Hamburg and Berlin at the moment than anywhere near a place with internet access and I fear these may be so for most of the summer. If the articles are merged though I do think that the usage of the words "Borneo" and "Kalimantan" ought to be thoroughly explained. Not only the history and the origin but also the political issues these names might have today. I will try to keep an eye on the article (and related ones) but my contributions may be only few in the next weeks to come and what little time I have for the WP might be mostly spent on translating between German and English. --T.woelk 10:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Wow - finding this conversation on my talk page was well found. Anyway, can i move this to the relevant article talk page rather here for a wider audience? Yes, a thorough explanation of the terms would be required if merged. There is no official admin or political identity known as kalimantan (but there is say 'East Kalimantan') so maybe a merge is OK. Merbabu 10:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

sure, move it. --T.woelk 09:03, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

U2 wikiproject assessment

i have edited the assessment page to give it the feel of the rest of the project. let me know if you dont like it. smithcool 13:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

DY sock

Hi. IMO, decisiveness and a quiet ignorance and cleanup of the edits and users is the best way of dealing with DY71. A simple block is of course the easiest. The reverse of the argument would of course be that the user could be an 'innocent' emulator of DY's edits - but of course emulators are indistinguishable from socks and so require the same decisive action. I feel that all potential socks of DY should be blocked first and checkusered later - good call to send straight to AIV. ck lostsword • T • C 15:23, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Its a mess

The air force history looks like a copy vio as well and the edit wars over personell numbers is a farce. Thinking of moving personnel numbers to a section of its own SatuSuro 01:31, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Pulled out the army section - have to get off for a while - might do the other forces later today - basically as one large list of equipment the separate arrticles will need heaps of work. Listcruft at its worst. reminds me of the techno pop group kraftwerk... hehehe - catch ya later SatuSuro 01:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, you know me. If it is unsourced, just remove it. Let's see them challenge me on that. Merbabu 02:20, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: I thought that was OK...

Yes, my only reservation was that it seemed to be a quote, therefore I reverted the change. The lowercase is actually correct, which is why I hestitated. If the "quote" can be explained and cleared up, this could be avoided. Thanks for your message. ---Theoldanarchist_Comhrá 01:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject U2 June 2007 Newsletter

The U2 WikiProject Newsletter Issue I - 25th June 2007 If you would like to help out with future newsletters, please contact the Outreach Department.
“Home… hard to know what it is if you’ve never had one Home… I can’t say where it is but I know I'm going home That's where the hurt is” U2 News At the moment U2 are writing and recording for a new album. They have recorded a John Lennon song, Instant Karma, for the new album Instant Karma: The Amnesty International Campaign to Save Darfur. All proceeds go to Amnesty International so I recommend for you to buy this album. More info at: www.instantkarma.org Project News The Assessment Department has just been set up and is run by Merbabu (talk · contribs), MelicansMatkin (talk · contribs) and Smithcool (talk · contribs). Feel free to join the team! Member News There are very few members, if anybody is interested in joining or knows a person that would be, visit the member page. People are needed to set up and run 2 new departments - A Collaboration of the Month Department and a Portal. People are also needed to keep the Outreach Department up and running. Members who would like tasks or goals to be put forward, please visit the projects talk page.	From the Editors Welcome! to the first edition of the U2 WikiProject Newsletter. Released 25th June. We hope you all enjoy helping this project. New Members Since the project began quite a few people have joined: smithcool (Founder), Merbabu, MelicansMatkin, Dream out loud (talk),RattleandHum, Vox Humana 8', CRBR, keeleysam, Neranei, Katsuhagi, VolatileChemical, Eternal dragon, AnCatDubh43, ProgressiveAeternus, DannyM (Djm1279), Culnacréann, Hockeyrw, Mascal4 and Terrasidius, DanKerins and j7ack. Contributors to this issue Smithcool
Article Statistics Make visible or invisible by clicking Show or Hide, respectively. U2 articles Importance Top High Mid Low None Total Quality FA 1 1 FL 1 1 GA 4 1 5 B 5 3 3 3 14 Start 6 30 42 25 103 Stub 5 44 21 70 Assessed 16 38 90 50 194 Unassessed 2 2 Total 16 38 90 50 2 196 (correct on 24 June)