Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement/Temples

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[edit] Wikilinking names

Because the standard is to only link names one a page one time, the featured list candidacy brought up the issue of having the name of the person who dedicated the temple wikilinked everywhere. Since we are using templates it would be difficult to not wikilink it everywhere.

However, we could include a parameter in the call to the list format like {{Talk:Los Angeles California Temple/data |format = LDS Temple list | dedicated_link = No | groundbreaking_link = Yes}} or soemthing like that. Then we would wikilink automatically (rather than requiring the data page to have the wikilink. Any other thoughts? --Trödel 09:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Only issue is questions surrounding what happens when a editor not familiar with templates tries to update in one location, will it auto update in all? Say he updates the list page with hard edits, will it throw everything else off? other than that, love the proposal. -Visorstuff 17:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes - that is the main reason for doing this :) - so that one making a change will update it for all the articles that reference the data. As to what an unfamiliar pwerson will see - if they try to edit a page where he sees the data it will look like this (for a list)
{{Talk:Kirtland Temple/data | format=LDS Temple list}}
{{Talk:Nauvoo Temple/data | format=LDS Temple list}}
=== Operating Temples ===
{{Talk:Saint George Utah Temple/data | format=LDS Temple list}}
{{Talk:Logan Utah Temple/data | format=LDS Temple list}}
{{Talk:Manti Utah Temple/data | format=LDS Temple list}}
{{Talk:Salt Lake City Temple/data | format=LDS Temple list}}
...
Or for a temple page it will look like this:
{{Talk:Salt Lake City Temple/data | format=Infobox LDS Temple}}
begin text of article
So the data will look like it auto-magically appears. However, my plan is to put small edit links in the row or infobox. Not sure where though - common way is to use v d e (for view, discuss, edit) in the infobox for instant access to the data. See Template:Canelections for an example. I was thinking of something like edit which would link to the Data template instead of the three links since that would be more obvious what the links does.

I don't love "VDE," but do like "edit" as an alternative. Love the idea. -Visorstuff 18:25, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

OK - I'll use edit - thx for the feedback - I'll implement the first 10 temples. --Trödel 19:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The date format should be defined. I believe it was suggested that it be YYYY-MM-DD so it can be sortable on sortable lists. This is fine, but the template should have some logic to convert it to [[Month DD]], [[YYYY]]. Can we even do sortable tables with this format? Bytebear 04:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

The ISO standard names will format according to a persons preferences ("My Preferences" under the Date/Time tab) as long as they are wikilinked like this: [[YYYY-MM-DD]]. I.e. 2006-12-25 wikilinked will appear as 25 December 2006 for me because that is my preference and will appear as December 25, 2006 for most people since that is the default preference.
Unfortunately, they are sorted based on how the data appears on the page - so they have to be in the YYYY-MM-DD format on the comparison list page. See examples for first 10 temples on the list and temple article pages. --Trödel 06:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Clarification on the comparison page - if they are wikilinked they will sort April then August for people with the default date display preference. Or for me they will sort according to the day of the month rather than the year. --Trödel 14:02, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] coordinates

I added coordinates to the Talk:Ogden_Utah_Temple/data page - I used the {{coor d|41.226958|N|111.972036|W|}} template; I used the Goggle Maps API which gave me -111.972036,41.226958,0 which after some tinkering discovered was to be marked up as 41.226958|N|111.972036|W. It appears the temples template doesn't yet use this info; here is a sample of the output of the coor d template: 41.226958° N 111.972036° W

MeekMark 15:51, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Ahhh, the coordinates template appears in the heading of the article, sometimes, not in the infobox! :( I added the coor d template to the Talk:Los Angeles California Temple/data and now there is a coordinates link at the top of Los Angeles California Temple, but there is no coordinates link in the Ogden Utah Temple so I guess it is the template style? If the community doesn't like where it appears, feel free to revert. I brewed up a simple web page that accepts a "123 Street Name, City, State" and returns a coor d to cut/paste at http://meekmark.com/cgi-bin/google_api3.cgi MeekMark 16:16, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nuku'alofa Tonga Temple

I'm going to help out with this project in my spare time. I've created the data page for the Nuku'alofa Tonga Temple - someone please let me know if I'm not doing this right. Jaksmata 14:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More temples in new format

I’ve added a bunch of temples to the new format. I’ve tried to do as much as possible of it by copy/paste to avoid typos, but the large amount of data practically guarantees that errors will happen. If someone wants to “follow me around” correcting things, that would be helpful. Jaksmata 19:06, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Namespaces

Since I started looking at this project, I’ve been suspicious that the Talk namespace is the wrong place to put temple data. I knew that I’d read somewhere that encyclopedic content should only be in certain places, and I just found it: Wikipedia:Subpages. See in particular Disallowed uses #3. (Yes, I know this is a guideline and not a policy.) Also, for temples that don’t have pages yet, the data page will be speedy deleted per General criteria #8 of that policy.

Anyway, I think it would be better if we moved all the data pages from Talk to Template namespace. I propose that we use a naming convention like Template: St. George Utah Temple data. I don’t think we need administrator help to move these pages, but we might.

I have the text for several more temples’ data pages ready (offline), but I’m going to hold off uploading them until I’ve gotten some feedback on this. Jaksmata 15:39, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I decided not to use the Template namespace because I wanted to avoid having to defend the temple data templates from being deleted. Some templates are deleted based on arguments that I think could apply to the temple data so rather than take the chance that they could be deleted I elected to propose using the Talk namespace where those arguments would not apply. Additionally, it allows for an easy namespace delineation between the data and the templates. Data is at Talk:Temple name/data and the templates are at Template:Template name. --Trödel 03:39, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
As to the use of subpages. Dissallowed use #3 is that you can't use subpages in the articles space for encyclopedic content. And I agree that the data could be deleted under #8, so the key is to create at least a stub and put the Infobox in it to avoid the problem of having data but no temple page.
As far as I know this is the first use of a page to store data that could then be reused with different formats in different articles. The deletionists tend to monitor the template namespace much more frequently than the talk space, so I think the deletion risk is much higher in the Template area.
Finally, I think it just makes better sense to have the data "near" the temple - rather than grouped in the template namespace. I think the best approach would be to make some changes to the Subpages policy regarding the use of data pages such as these and see what reaches concensus, that way the method we use is memorialized in (and thus protected by) the guideline. --Trödel 03:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I guess that's alright - we can always move it later if needed (like if the subpage guideline becomes policy). Jaksmata 04:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree - sometimes trying to make a policy change like that can have unexpected negative consequences. BTW, I just got my copy of the Church Almanac 2007 - and am hoping that it will have height info on more temples. --Trödel 17:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Transcluding_article_content_from_talk_pages.--Patrick (talk) 16:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template:LDS Temple geographic

I've created a template that could be used as {{LDS Temple geographic}} in my user area ({{User:Jaksmata/LDS Temple geographic}}). There's a sample page where I've tested it here: User:Jaksmata/List of temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by geographic region. This could be copied as a baseline for the "real" template. There is also a simple table header template {{User:Jaksmata/LDS Temple geographic top}}.

There are a few issues with the template that need to be worked out:

  • I didn't include the country in the template, because I wanted to preserve the rowspan like it is in the article now. It leaves the article source looking a little messy. This could easily be changed.
  • Temples with no article (data page) cause problems - you can see this in my sample page with the Cebu Philippines Temple - this is the reason I haven't already created the template.

Jaksmata 19:58, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I took a look at this today - My view is that we should try to eliminate as much as possible the table formatting from the list pages so that they are easier to read and edit for the uninitiated. However, I can't think of an easy way to do that with the countries having different numbers of temples. I agree that we need a useful way to deal with Temples that do not yet have articles. Maybe creating a stub article for any announced temple is the best plan :) --Trödel 02:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Temple nav boxes

What does everyone think about using a nav box in temple articles? Many wikiprojects use these to organize multiple articles that don't fit into the same category. I think they make the articles look nice too. I've made one that I think is pretty nifty by combining the nav box from Wikipedia:WikiProject The Beatles and Bytebear's temple maps. You can see it in my sandbox. Jaksmata 20:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I am generally against all these nav box stuff - but I like these collapsible ones and the design looks good. A while back there was a push to use color to identify different religion infoboxes. I'll try to find it as I thought the color used for LDS temples was attractive - and is used in the headings for the comparison list. --Trödel 02:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Temple coordinates

I would like to add geographical coordinate information to all the temple pages (I have a source to get the coordinates), but the data is not currently shown on any of the templates. I was thinking of adding coordinates to {{Infobox LDS Temple}} in a way that would let the coordinates appear at the top of the page near the title (e.g., like the Salt Lake Temple article currently looks).

I would add this near the bottom of {{Infobox LDS Temple}}:

{{#if:{{{coordinates}}}|{{{coordinates}}}|
{{#if:{{{coordinatesNSValue|}}}|{{coor title d
|{{{coordinatesNSValue|}}}
|{{{coordinatesNS|}}}
|{{{coordinatesEWValue|}}}
|{{{coordinatesEW|}}}
|Region:{{{coordinatesRegion|}}}_type:Landmark}}
}}
}}

I've tested it using {{X6}} as the "format" and {{X7}} as the "data" (then previewing a few temples substituting X6 and X7 as required), and it seems to work as intended. This would entail adding a few new parameters to each of the temple data pages.

The alternative would be to just add coordinates to each temple article, as has been done to the Salt Lake Temple. Of course, that doesn't give the flexibility that our data templates were intended for. By adding the new parameters, we can support showing the coordinates of multiple temples in grids using a differnet coordinate template like {{coor d}}. Any thoughts/objections/suggestions? – jaksmata 22:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Since there's no response, I'll assume no objections. I've already done a few temples, and I'll do the rest in the next day or two. I didn't use the same parameter names I originally said because of the preferred names shown at Wikipedia:WikiProject Geographical coordinates. Also, showing the coordinates in degrees/minutes/seconds at the top seems to be the preferred format for buildings. – jaksmata 03:18, 14 June 2008 (UTC)