Wikipedia talk:Redirect

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[edit] Cleanup needed?

I read these guidelines and find them a bit chaotic. Due to the inclusion of the list of redirection categories, it's a long page and some things are very confusing (for example here: Use of one of these redirects does not mean two or more can be added, if appropriate.). There's also duplicate information. -- StevenDH (talk) 02:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP:Directory and WP:DIRECTORY

At the moment, WP:Directory and WP:DIRECTORY redirect to different articles: Wikipedia:Quick directory and Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_directory, respectively. This situation may cause more confusion than it dispels.

The all-caps WP:DIRECTORY is used a bit more; it is linked to by around 85 pages. WP:Directory is linked to by about 30 pages.

So, I'm thinking it might be good to change WP:Directory to redirect to the same thing that WP:DIRECTORY does. Does that make sense? If so, is there a bot that can go in and fix the pages that currently link to WP:Directory (e.g. just chage those instances to WP:QUICK), and leave a note on the user talk pages of those editors who have cited it, so they'll know in the future?

Or, we could just do nothing, since this isn't exactly a pressing problem... cheers, Jim Butler(talk) 20:54, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Navigating redirects

I added a "Navigating redirects" section because I thought the information was somewhat nonobvious. Let me know if you think it shouldn't be there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Heqwm (talk • contribs) 09:11, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Redirects from foreign languages

Clarification on part of the policy on redirects has been requested at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Redirects from foreign languages. Please join the discussion at your convenience. Rossami (talk) 23:56, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Are redirects counted as articles?

Are redirects counted in the 2,191,713 articles in English? I ask this because whenever I make a new redirect, it says created page #REIDIRECT... in the exact same way it does articles. Tavix (talk) 23:51, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

No. Read Special:Statistics It says: The English-language Wikipedia currently contains 2,191,758 articles. This number excludes redirects, discussion pages, image description pages, user profile pages, templates, help pages, portals, articles without links to other articles, and pages for Wikipedia administration. Including these, we have 11,645,800 pages. - Mtmelendez (Talk) 00:10, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] other sites

Can you redirect to other urls?--Demyx--ogo13 21:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Not as a hard-redirect. You can soft-redirect to a URL (basically, by adding a template like {{wi}} which says "we don't have an encyclopedia article but here's someplace else that might answer your question") but that's limited by precedent and tradition (and often by policy) to only the other WikiMedia sister projects. You should not, for example, redirect a page about a garage band to the band's own website even as a soft-redirect. Rossami (talk) 22:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Soft redirect discussion

I have started a discussion on soft redirects, and their future on the project, here. Any input from people knowledable about redirects in general is welcome and encouraged. - TexasAndroid (talk) 19:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality of redirects

Article naming is a special interest of mine (I authored the Wikipedia:Naming conflict guideline and have expanded Wikipedia:Words to avoid to refine the article naming guidelines there). I noticed that there was a significant omission in this section about the NPOV requirements for redirects. As already mentioned above, redirects are not articles, and furthermore they are not subject to NPOV; WP:NPOV addresses itself specifically only to article naming. Like many other admins doing cleanup duties, I've frequently moved POV titled articles to NPOV titles, but this of course leaves behind the original POV article title as a redirect. There are circumstances in which POV-titled redirects are entirely legitimate aids to searching, where a POV term is widely used outside Wikipedia to describe the subject of a neutrally-titled Wikipedia article (e.g. Attorneygate redirects to Dismissal of U.S. attorneys controversy). I've therefore added a section to the transcluded section on Wikipedia:Redirect/Deletion Reasons to explain the relationship of NPOV to redirects, and to explain our current standard practice in creating or leaving in place POV-titled redirects. Comments would be welcomed. -- ChrisO (talk) 03:39, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed pseudo-namespace "EIW"

If interested, please see Wikipedia:Bot requests#Creating a bunch of redirects that are shortcuts regarding setting up a bunch of redirects using a new pseudo-namespace, "EIW". These will be shortcuts that will link to topics in the Editor's index to Wikipedia. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 21:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Scientific Names

Section is contradictory.
ThisMunkey (talk) 10:36, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

In what way? Are you referring to having two redirects, instead of just one standard redirect? - Mtmelendez (Talk) 12:57, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree with ThisMunkey - the naming conventions are inconsistent here. Either the specialized (jargon-type) or common (vernacular-type) name should be used for a given science article. I would tend toward having the redirects be the common name, and the article itself be the specialized name (with, of course, the common name being clearly visible at the beginning of the article). The redirect guidelines for scientific article names are indeed contradictory - they're ambiguous, and basically say, "use whatever name you want". This has been a problem for the WikiProject:Pharmacology, as non-specialists tend to create articles with titles being brandnames, instead of specific chemical names. Anyone else care to comment on this? Fuzzform (talk) 21:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
That's really an issue for Wikipedia:Naming conventions. Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) would seem to indicate that the common name should be favored, but it also says there will be exceptions. Given that, it's clear there are cases that go both ways and so we should have both versions of template. -- JLaTondre (talk) 00:40, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Ah. Criteria is not established on this page. Only a list of {{ boxes and their names. Wikipedia:Naming conventions is about that, which clears something up for me a bit.
ThisMunkey (talk) 21:37, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Template Redirect

I need some expert help here. I'm attempting to merge 2 similar templates, lets call them template A and template B. I've modified template A such that it performs the function of template B with an optional parameter: bstyle=yes. I would like to redirect template B to the new template A with the parameter bstyle=yes. Is it possible? or is the the right place to ask? Let me know if I'm at the wrong place. - oahiyeel talk 15:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm certainly not an expert but like you thought this doesn't seem the right place to get a solution for your particular problem. That being said, maybe what you need to do is replace template A with {{template B|bstyle=yes|...}} or something like that, and indicate that template A is deprecated if wanted. (Maybe I'm switching A and B, if that's the case you have to do too.) If that doesn't work out, try asking at WP:VPT for instance. -- StevenDH (talk) 13:27, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Template:B would contain {{A|bstyle=yes|other={{{other|}}}}} If there were any other parameters possible, you could pass them as suggested. Gimmetrow 23:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Redirects

This is supposed to be empty but clearly isn't. Wouldn't it be best just to get a bot to get rid of everything placed here (and perhaps systematically notify everyone who adds something here, so they don't keep doing it?).

Also, a new category for redirects may be in order, something like Category:Redirects to broader topics or Category:Redirects from more specific topics. Something for those subjects that don't require their own article. Richard001 (talk) 08:03, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] old/new place names vs. well known/not well known

According to WikiProject Redirect, one of the Project's tasks is to "[a]dd redirects about countries - eg. old names…" I don't see anything about this in Wikipedia:Redirect, and I think it should be added.

Currently, "the preferred title of an article is the most common name" would support keeping an old place name if it's better known than a new one. This gets touchy in cases where "old" is "colonial" and "new" is "back-to-native." The Project seems to support redirecting from old to new (it doesn't say 'redirects about countries - e.g. new names'), and indeed we have Godthåb redirecting to Nuuk, Søndre Strømfjord redirecting to Kangerlussuaq, Salisbury, Zimbabwe redirecting to Harare, etc. (They're just the ones that came to mind (I couldn't say why — they just did), and I'm sure there are many others.)

Can we make a decision about this and add it to the guidelines? There's some debate about Nuuk vs. Godthåb (it's currently Nuuk), it just came up in Kiriwina vs. Trobriand (it's currently Trobriand), and I suspect similar esoteric arguments will be had over and over until we do. — eitch 16:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Creating redirects for alternate names is already covered by this guideline (there is a section on it). It sounds like you are more concerned about which name should be the actual article title & which should be the redirect. That's not really the purview of this guideline. The naming conventions would cover that. I'd suggest Wikipedia:Naming conventions (places) or Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names). -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll try the people over there, but I fear they'll say "that's a redirection issue — ask them." — eitch 17:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
The discussion under naming conventions is now here. — eitch 18:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] R2D on the Main Page

(This thread has been moved from WP:ERRORS.)

Victory links to Bernard Hopkins-Joe Calzaghe boxing match which is a redirect to Bernard Hopkins vs. Joe Calzaghe. CenariumTalk 00:48, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Please see WP:R2D. Thanks. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 00:55, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I know it, but it's on the main page here, I saw a lot of edits on the main page bypassing redirects, e.g.: [1], [2], [3] ... CenariumTalk 01:16, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
It's high visibility, I do think that it's justified here. If you want precedents in ITN: [4], [5]. Have a great day, CenariumTalk 01:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I've seen such edits too, but reverting them sounds unproductive. If you think WP:R2D is wrong, then shouldn't you be questioning the policy itself? Art LaPella (talk) 01:26, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure why we should repeat past mistakes. --199.71.174.100 (talk) 01:36, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
R2D applies most of the time, I don't question this policy. It's just that here is a case where it doesn't apply, because this is a featured link, a lot of people use it, and are redirected. None of the other reasons to avoid bypassing the redirect applies here (and 10,000 clicks are quickly exhausted on the main page). Also, the remark " it is preferable to change redirected links in navigational templates" suggests the same reasoning. CenariumTalk 01:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I have never seen an argument before how high visibility relates to Wikipedia:Don't worry about performance like you are doing here. Has there been a discussion on it previously? Zzyzx11 (Talk) 06:08, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Not really, as far as I'm aware ITN is never included in articles therefore the rest of the sentence you are quoting "In this case, when the template is placed on an article, and contains a direct link to that article (not a redirect), the direct link will display in bold (and not as a link), making it easier to navigate through a series of articles using the\ template." does not apply therefore your reason given does not apply. Moot point now that the item is almost definetely not coming back (and personally I don't see anything wrong with someone changing it when adding it back anyway) Nil Einne (talk) 07:37, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
My reasoning applies also to navigational templates, it's also for a question of comfort in reading, I didn't mean the other way, nor referred to the following sentence, it's just that there are common points. The main page is really special, and being redirected when clicking on a link is kind of annoying. About performance, Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups/About fixing redirects says "10,000 times before it would be worthwhile to replace that link with a direct link.". I tought it was common to bypass redirects on the main page so I posted here, if it's getting to long, it's possible to move the thread to the talk. Maybe we should engage a discussion on R2D on the main page at Wikipedia talk:Redirect. CenariumTalk 12:48, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
My understanding is the reason to fix redirects in navigational templates is predominantly because of the issue that is mentioned. No other reason is given for fixing redirects in navigational templates in the guideline and I'm not sure if any other reason was intended. I'm not necessary opposed to changing the guideline simply pointing out the guideline as it stands doesn't seem to support your suggestion that we should fix redirects on the main page beyond those that cause other issues (like misleading 'hints'). Personally I prefer things to be neater, and like to avoid redirects except when the redirect is a valid and logical alternative (e.g. petrol) or the redirect might be a future page. But since this isn't the consesus I leave things as is. Also, it's my understanding that Wikipedia:Don't worry about performance as mentioned above, generally trumps all. The only time we should consider performance is when we are doing something which is likely going to temporarily drastically affect performance we should perhaps contact the devs and tell them about our plans. For example if we decide to do a mass rename of all articles, or if we change losts of very common templates (as happened late last year). I don't think the intention of Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups/About fixing redirects is to encourage people to fix redirects if it's going to be visited more then 10,000 times. It was initially made before 'Don't worry about performance' and now serves to help convince doubters that they're not actually doing anything useful performance wise by fixing redirects, in most cases. N.B. Of course, we've probably use several million already perhaps redirects discussing this especially since I unfortunately am not very good at previewing (even when I do, I usually think of something else). Edit: See! Nil Einne (talk) 23:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this is actually germane or not, but to the idea that things are "cleaner" without redirects, I don't think that's so at all. I think the most convincing reason to not replace [[redirect]] with [[target|redirect]] is that the page source is much less clean. I don't think it affects readers at all to "be redirected" as some have talked about here. Croctotheface (talk) 02:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
  • I have a weak experience with Main Page issues, but it's the first time I found a redirect linked from the main page and I saw a lot of edits bypassing redirects there, it seems to be already a common practice. The main page has navigational purposes (like navigational templates and portals) and is a presentation of Wikipedia's best content. It's also viewed by a lot of people and being redirected is not universally appreciated. In most cases, when the link is a redirect, it's already of the form [[target|redirect]], an edit is no big deal, and we don't have to worry about performance after all (and it's even a benefit from this standpoint considering the high visibility) ; these pages are very specific and it's not in contradiction with the spirit of the guideline WP:R2D (also, it's explicitly stated that it may be beneficial in some cases) (this guideline was created essentially to avoid mass fixing of redirects in articles). Hence, I propose to modify the guideline so that the main page be explicitly excluded from WP:R2D for bold links, i.e.: these redirects should be "fixed". I propose the same for portals, and for non-bold links also, but with more tolerance, i.e.: the redirect should be fixed "passing by" or is left to the appreciation of the user. CenariumTalk 13:55, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I disagree here. I think there are two tenets underlying your position. First, and correct me if I'm wrong, in saying that the main page is "Wikipedia's best content," you seem to assert that redirects are somehow bad or not our best practice. Second, you assert that readers don't appreciate "being redirected." Both of these arguments apply not just to redirects on the front page, but on every page. If we accept them, we would necessarily have to rewrite the guideline to say that, yes, we should have bots go through and "fix" every redirect so that they are never used. More specifically, to your first point, I don't see why, if redirects are something we "should" avoid, what's good for the main page wouldn't be good for every other page. Theoretically, each page should aspire to be our best possible work. To your second point, I haven't seen any evidence that merely "being redirected" does a disservice to the readers. (Except, of course, when a redirect is misleading or sends someone to a disambig page, but that's not what R2D says people shouldn't do.) If readers are indeed done a disservice, then we should serve them the best way we can and avoid all redirects. Croctotheface (talk) 18:50, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Redirects are almost always correct when they are on the Main Page. When there's a page move, the redirect is almost systematically bypassed. So this is a regular violation of R2D in its present form. The reasons are not so important, the fact is that it's already a common practice and it's unlikely to change. A mention in a note that it's acceptable to fix redirects there would accord the guideline and practice. CenariumTalk 09:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe an amendment is not necessary at this point, it's a very specific case where R2D is not followed and, again, is not in total contradiction with the main purpose of the guideline. Cenarium (talk)

[edit] Disambiguation pages?

Am I right that disambig pages linking to a specific article should use the proper title and ignore WP:R2D, like this [6]? Nil Einne (talk) 23:29, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

The Manual of Style on disambiguation pages has precedent. Please follow those rules for disambig pages. In particular, I think you want the section on Piping. Rossami (talk) 02:46, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Although in the example edit cited, I think you were correct to edit the link to use the target article's name -- the redirect wasn't broken (it went to the right place), but it wasn't needed here since both use the same base name, and since the dab phrase is visible, we may as well get it right. -- JHunterJ (talk) 21:59, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect to wictionary

Right now, lmao redirects to Internet slang, which doesn't say what the acronym stands for. It would be more useful to redirect to wikt:Appendix:Internet_slang#L, but this takes you away from Wikipedia and into Wiktionary. Do we have any policies against this? --JaGa (talk) 02:42, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Nope. We do it often. Use the {{wi}} template. Rossami (talk) 03:07, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How do they redirect?

I'm wondering how Wikipedia's Redirect Pages work, as the URI in my address bar doesn't change to the indended article. Is a Wikipedia redirect simply showing the contents of a page in that redirect page. For example, (assuming that "USA" is a redirect page if it isn't), when we go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA, does it actually use a meta redirect, or does it put all the contents of "United States" in the USA page? Thanks, 99.254.204.28 (talk) 21:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Help needed

Could someone have a look at this discussion? Talk:Thylacoleonidae#Vote_below_.28See_above_two_topics.29 There is are two redirects Marsupial lion and Marsupial lions pointing to Thylacoleonidae instead of Marsupial Lion. The reasoning behind this is rather technical. However, this seems like it would violate some rule about having two articles with the same title or something like that. Thanks, Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 16:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know of any "two article" rule. But certainly, Marsupial lion is a topic that requires some disambiguation. Based on what I read of the discussion, no primary meaning of Marsupial lion exists. However, because only two meanings seem to exist, it's not clear a full disambiguation page is warranted (although, that may be the only way consensus can be reached in this case). That said, relying on subtle differences in capitalization to facilitate disambiguation just sounds silly to me. Certainly using hatnotes is a better solution. BTW, per WP:CAPS#Case_sensitivity_and_searching, if Marsupial lion is deleted, searches for "Marsupial lion" will automatically redirect to Marsupial Lion. Another issue worth examining is whether the double capitalization in Marsupial Lion is truly warranted (see WP:CAPS). -Noca2plus (talk) 18:21, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Do not "fix" links to redirects that are not broken" ?

this entire section seems a bit stupid - most links to disamb pages are ones that have been lazily done or by people who dont know how to do them properly. only a few will intenionally point to a disamb , and those arre all on talk pages eg "look how many [[John Smith (disambiguation)|John Smith]]s there are - why do you think your one deserves the primary redirect ?".

the point on not "fixing" intentional redlinks is the only valid one in the section but it is badly sidelined. Machete97 (talk) 22:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand what your first point is -- this section has nothing to do with links to disambiguation pages. Most links to dab pages are broken and should be fixed. I also don't see anything about redlinks in this particular section.
What this section discusses is editors who think that a link to a redirect page is a bad thing and go out of their way to change them to direct article links, and why they should not do this.
Perhaps an example would be useful here: an article might talk about "the DeskSet productivity tools". The natural approach, as I just did, is to wikilink the word "DeskSet". There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, even though "DeskSet" happens to be a redirect.
A later editor may see this and decide it should be changed to a pipe: [[SunView#DeskSet|DeskSet]]. This is wrong -- it's "fixing" a redirect that does not need to be fixed, based on the idea that redirects are in some way bad. This section outlines why this is a waste of time, and how it can actually impede future changes to Wikipedia: if at a later time DeskSet is converted from a redirect to a full article, the original link will go to the right place; the "fixed" link will not. Regards, NapoliRoma (talk) 23:02, 9 June 2008 (UTC)