Talk:Maize

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[edit] Maize vs. Corn controversy

Please see archive 2.


[edit] Zea or Zea Mays?

The sidebar contains several Zea genus, but the main article is highly focused on Zea Mays, especially Zea Mays subsp. mays. Think we need a seperate page for Zea? Mackerm 17:21, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Should this article provide information about corn is grown now rather than relying on an article that is over 100 years old?

You ripped me off! Where's my Radio?
You ripped me off! Where's my Radio?

[edit] Propagation

Maize cannot self seed, right? It depends upon cultivation for seed dispersal. This should probably be mentioned. Perhaps along with domestication history of maize in the first paragraph.

[edit] Edit by 68.47.125.142

Ó:nenhste Mohawk for corn —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.47.125.142 (talk • contribs) 06:35, 11 January 2006.

[edit] domestication and alkali treatment

Wasn't alkali treatment important in the domestication of Maize ? Why was it necessary, and is it still useful today beyond making Homney ?


[edit] Chicha

I removed the following because there is already an article about chicha, to which it should probably be incorporated:

Sweet Chicha, which is maize flour and honey fermented in earthen pots, drunk in "totumas", is still made to this day since ancient times when it was considered sacred. Since colonial times, chicha culture has suffered discrimination, prohibition and rejection by church and goverment parties, up to this day, because it is a strong bond to native culture and rural unity. In some places it is still used everyday, it was traditionally used in native religious and spiritual celebrations. In some places of central america like Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua and south america like Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Venezuela, Panama and Colombia it is still used as a refreshing alcoholic beverage as well as a small meal, but the name and preparation of this fermented drink varies by location. Maize chicha is drunk in large quantities at celebrations, which usually are native cultural events or rural festivals, sometimes about both, in these times, chicha is drunk all the time, and many times people drink continously until very drunk, in some cases, "finally" throwing up to "open up space" to continue drinking. Some members of society, usually in groups, use various etheogens like mushrooms, mixed with the drink, to have visions and revelations. Those who have experienced it, say it is like a "spiritual voyage", because of the personal revelation experiences. These practices go back to Amerindian roots. Chicha is not easy to make, it becomes sour if not consumed in the right moment, a type of vinegar is prepared this way.

--Curtis Clark 03:53, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plastic

It should be noted somewhere in the article about the use of corn materials to make biodegradable plastic, which I know of one bottled water company that does so. Someone should do a little research and add it under maize uses.

[edit] "corrected for solar variations"

This phrase is really not clear in context -- does it have to do with carbon dating? AnonMoos 08:02, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes. carbon dating#calibration Rmhermen 04:50, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yield

I came here looking for info and found the article rather lacking. In "Cultivation" there should be discussion of yield. [1] shows for Indiana, stable yield of 30 to 40 bushels per acre from the 1860's until the 1930's, then increasing yield up to an average of about 150 bushels/acre, due perhaps to irrigation, hybrids, fertilizer, herbicides and pesticides. At [2] yields up to 351 bushels/acre are reported, perhaps where winning a prize is more important than maximizing return on investment. How does this compare to other countries? What chemicals are applied at what stage of growth, and what are the societal implications as well as costs? What are the implications and controversies of genetically modified corn? How have corn prices varied relative to the cost of production? Thanks. Edison 17:01, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Note that "herbicides and pesticides" is a mixing of categories, a factual error, unless one is permitted to write his own definitions, which degrades the language. "Herbicides and pesticides" is akin to "Catholics and Christians" or to "oranges and fruits", since herbicides ARE pesticides. Pollinator 15:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Herbicides and pesticides

Herbicides and pesticides is a mixing of categories - an error of fact that can only be ignored if anyone is allowed to write his own definition. Herbicides ARE pesticides. It's akin to saying "Catholics and Christians, which of course is either a misuse of the language, or an idiosyncratic definition. Normally I am reluctant to edit comments on the talk page; however this is not a matter of opinion. It's an error of fact; and, as editors, we are duty bound to correct factual errors. Pollinator 05:09, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to correct errors in articles. Talk page comments are not edited in this manner. Rmhermen 05:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
It is not a matter of manners; since nothing offensive is intended. Editors are duty bound to correct errors of fact wherever found, or the entire project becomes suspect. Pollinator 15:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Editors who cannot distinguish the difference in purpose between articles and talk pages should be cautious about editing in general.
Let me try another approach. Changing a signed comment introduces an error of fact. The original author signed his/her own words, and a reader might well hold that the signer is the author. Changing those words, however wrong they might be, without explicitly noting it on the talk page, creates a misattribution, and the fact that someone carefully researching the history a year hence could discover the change does not mitigate that. I could have edited your remarks above from "since nothing offensive is intended" to "an inference of offense is completely unwarranted". The meaning is the "same", but it's not what you wrote and signed.--Curtis Clark 21:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Economy of maize production

The article appears to be somewhat lacking with respect to the economics and application of maize production. As I understand some farmers previously received subsidies not to produce maize in periods of oversupply. With the advent of bio fuel production this may be something of the past. As an important commodity the article may be improved by graphs showing the price, or pie charts showing the different applications. JMK 08:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Farmers where? Central Africa? China? /this is a global article and it would be hard to integrate that level of detail for every country. Rmhermen 05:41, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Efficiency of maize sunfall energy conversion

I wish that I could cite a reference -- but promises are not to be broken lightly : I do not wish to embarrass my source. So, then -

I have it on the best authority, from a US source, that the annualized efficiency of the conversion of sunfall to chemical energy (starch & cellulose) of the maize plant in the US corn belt (got you there "corn" bashers -- that is the official name) is but 0.70% -- that is, 0.007 of the available incident energy. This figure falls so low, in part, because the average growing season is but 51 days -- despite the fact that maize is one of the most efficient existing plant energy converters.

Biofuel Advocates, Listen Up ! -- Bear in mind further that maize production requires enormous quantities of water and of synthetic fertilizer from petroleum in order to thrive at such "high" levels of conversion efficiency. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.157.183.102 (talk) 02:45, 16 February 2007 (UTC).

Not true on some points. "Corn belt" is not an official name. The corn growing season is not 51 days in the U.S. Midwest but 120-150 days.[3] The conversion factor might be correct though - remember solar panels only convert 0.07% of incident energy. See this abstarct which lists 1-2% or lower.[4] Rmhermen 05:41, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I misspoke on the "growing season". However, for the starch component of corn, the "grainfilling period" is about 51 days.
For the cellulose component (totally dried stalk and leaves) -- Over the long growing season you mention, the cellulose production varies from near zero to some peak and then declines. I have no references on the details of cellulose production by corn over the "growing season", do you ?
Your typo - Photovoltaic devices convert from 5% to 30% (0.05 to 0.30) of the incident energy, not "0.07%". Of course, from this must be subtracted the "area overhead" of the physical facilities, just as one must for agricultural crops.
Photovoltaics (PVs), too, suffer a bit from the effects of a sort of "growing season", related to the effects of ambient and device temperatures, but conversion is only somewhat degraded and never ends or even comes close to ending over the year.
Cost has not been discussed for either corn or PVs-- but corn production efficiency has pretty much topped out, where there is still enormous room for improvement in photovoltaics. Thus raising corn can be viewed as an unnecessary, unproductive and costly step for converting the energy of sunfall to a more convenient form of energy.
Agricultural operations are for growing food, soon not all of that or even fiber and certainly not fuel. Eventually, not even basic products like starch and cellulose will be found "on the farm" -- artificial photosynthesis or another bulk industrialized solar-powered process will assume that role, driven in part by water scarcity. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.220.59.188 (talk) 15:20, 16 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Maize is a facultative long-night plant ?

That phrase is a bit of jargon that needs explaining, or linking to an explanation as the paragraph it is in rather depends onthat phrase having meaning to the reader. "Facultative long night"?

I added links to explanatory articles. -- Beland (talk) 23:59, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Baby corn

The information on baby corn throughout wikipedia is somewhat confusing. Baby corn suggests many varieties can be used. This article suggest baby corn comes from special varieties which produce multiple ears. Sweet corn used to suggest babycorn comes from immature sweet corn until I changed it based on the baby corn article. Someone who knows more about baby corn and which varities it comes from needs to correct the articles Nil Einne 16:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

This seems to answer the question. Two types are predominantly used for baby corn. Sweet corn varieties and prolific starchy corn varieties (which produce multiple ears). As these are the most productive, they are the varieties most commonly used for baby corn [5]. Someone with time might want to update the articles as appropriate Nil Einne 16:45, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Say what? Chicken butt?

"The stems superficially resemble chicken hips..." with a link to the fowl. Looking at the picture, I don't really see anything that appears to have claws, a tail or eggs coming out of it. Where did this come from? Personally, I'd have said they resemble bamboo, with the nodes and leaves at the nodes... --StarChaser Tyger 02:52, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] 'Sound Corn' and 'Port Corn'

Would any of you bright boys and girls have any notion what types of corn these are? They are recorded in a sixteenth century English fiant-nay, about 100 of them that I've seen so far. Google is of no use whatsoever, which is a rare event in itself. Neither is JStor other than to tell me that 'sound corn' was in use in the United States in the 19th century. An article on Elizabethan England does talk about 'separating the saints, who are sound corn from the sinners, who are chaff' [William Perkins: Elizabethan Apostle of "Practical Divinity" Louis B. Wright The Huntington Library Quarterly, Vol. 3, No. 2. (Jan., 1940), pp. 171-196]. So it must have been of some good quality. But...? I am entirely surmising that the Port Corn might have something to do with the Portreeve, but there must be some historian of sixteenth-century agriculture reading? Any recommended reading on this would be much appreciated (I'm trying to link industries such as brewing and milling into these areas). Thanks. 194.125.110.240 07:09, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Probably better to ask this at wikipedia:Reference Desk but "sound corn" in the quote above probably refers to grain, not corn. We do sometimes talk of chaff with maize but it is more common in reference to grains like wheat, rye, oats (all of which are called "corn"). And "sound corn" here probably simply means good, useful produce as opposed to useless chaff, not to a particular kind of "corn". Rmhermen 19:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much. I've just done that, giving more precise examples of the terms. Hopefully some more info will turn up. Thanks again. 86.42.98.153 08:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation.

Maize is two syllables, not one rhyming with maze. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.140.189.250 (talk) 20:17, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I've always known it to be pronounced the same as "maze". Can you cite this assertation? Reginmund 21:24, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
How do you pronounce it then? --86.137.155.142 (talk) 02:22, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Criticism"

It seems somewhat remiss that there is no mention anywhere in the article (or at least a brief mention and link to another article) about the controversy over the economically-artificial corn-based food chain in the United States. The nature and magnitude of corn subsidies in the United States is, in many people's eyes, a big reason why we have found so many novel "uses" for corn (e.g. feeding exclusively corn to grass-eating animals, much to the detriment of the animals, the people who eat the animals, and the environment the animals live in). To talk about these uses without acknowledging the role that subsidies play in making those uses economically viable seems somewhat broken.

(Also note this is not a US-centric view, because the massive corn subsidies in the United States have a tremendous and sometimes devastating ripple effect on the food economy of the entire world. For instance, nobody outside the US can make a living growing corn anymore, because it's just way cheaper to buy US corn.)

If I have the time, I'll try and dig up some sources and maybe take a crack at it. --Jaysweet (talk) 19:24, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Thai farmers are making a living growing it, at least for local consumption. Ten years ago locally grown sweet corn wasn't fit to eat, but nowadays is as good as it gets. BTW, khao TH:ข้าว really means any cereal grain, but is generally understood to mean rice, or a meal. Maize in my Thai-English dictionary is khaopod TH: ข้าวโพด pronounced to an American ear like cow poat; but the entry also says, See corn. Pawyilee (talk) 15:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

There is a tendency to make these articles over broad. The above criticisms may have a place, but in a different article. This article should be about Corn (maize) not about the politics or environmental and ethical issues of how corn based the U.S. economy and U.S. Ag world has become. There is probably much to be removed and much to be added to this article but not criticism of U.S. Ag policy, justified however they may be.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 02:24, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Lime is probably NOT Calcium Carbonate, but Calcium Hydroxide...

The 'Lime' is probably NOT Calcium Carbonate CaCO3 at all, but Calcium Hydroxide Ca(OH)2.

The 'Ash' is probably a weak Sodium Hydroxide NaOH derrived from ashes and water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_Hydroxide

"In Native American and Latin American cooking, calcium hydroxide is called "cal". Corn cooked with cal becomes nixtamal which significantly increases its nutrition value, and is also considered tastier and easier to digest."

I do not seem to be able to edit the Wiki directly, so would some one correct this text within the Maize/Corn Wiki???

TIA! =) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.27.237.40 (talk) 07:09, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Footer?

I'm sure this is small potatoes for someone more Wikipedian than I, but I see on all the rest of the grain pages: rice, oats, etc, a list of other grains as a handy navigation tool that seem to be indexed to all other items in the Grain category. Why isn't it showing here? Shouldn't it? Andy_N.

It's there the purple header "Cereals and pseudocereals" but the content is hidden. on the right side there is a link "[show]" that will cause the list to be displayed. Jeepday (talk) 14:17, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Interwiki

Hello! I´d like to add an interwiki to the Hungarian version of the articel. Since I am not an "established" user in the English wikipedia, I cannot do that myself. Would anybody be so kind and add this: hu:Kukorica? Thanks,Feloidea en (talk) 17:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

All set. -- Kendrick7talk 17:24, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Popular notions on Biomass corn use and the impact on prices

Popular media and even wiki commonly attribute rising corn prices to increased demand due to biofuel and biomass uses. I've been searching for statistics that show this in some way. My instict is that the biofuel/biomass market is so small and so new that they could only be using a small fraction of a percent of the world supply. I suspect that rising fuel prices and rising demand in Asia and South America have had a much bigger impact on the price of corn. Any help uncovering these notions to be either true or false would be good. Jageryager (talk) 14:14, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BC/AD vs BCE/CE

This article has gone back and forth several times over the past year but on researching the history I find that the first use of either was of CE in this edit. Therefore based on WP:MOS we should be using the BCE/CE style.--Doug.(talk • contribs) 05:01, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Plato

I remember learning the history of corn as starting in meso-america and being carried to the rest of the world in the 15th century. Just like in the wikipedia article. I am reading the dialogues of Plato, Written in the 3rd century B.C. It contains several references to corn. One can only wonder if corn didn't get to Europe earlier than generaly accepted. Al Haney —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.255.96.125 (talk • contribs)

See Corn (disambiguation) prior to it's use for Maize, "Corn" had many other meanings.
Maize is technically known as "Indian corn" in the USA, i.e. Native American corn, to distinguish from the European types of "corn", such as wheat, oats, barley, etc., one of which is probably what Plato would have been referring to. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 04:12, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
However, if you find any Plato reference to "roastin' ears", then you'll be onto something. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 04:13, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
"Indian corn" has nothing whatsoever to do with "Native American" vs "European". Indian corn refers to varieties that are multicolored (i.e., not plain yellow or white) and hard when ripe. The difference between Indian corn and other corn (esp. "sweet corn" and "field corn"), is that sweet corn is soft and juicy when ripe, and field corn is all yellow with a dimple on the end of each kernel when ripe. In North America, "corn" is never used to refer to wheat, oats, barley, spelt, rye, sorghum, millet, etc. The word used for these, collectively, as well as for corn (er..."maize"--a word that's very seldom heard in N.Am.), is "grain[s]". Tomertalk 14:36, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Corn life cycle?

Not sure if this has been mentioned previously (if it has, I couldn't find the discussion), but I think if more on the life cycle of corn would be included, it would fill in the biological gaps of this article drastically.

Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.226.54.251 (talk) 01:14, 19 May 2008 (UTC)