Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Italy

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[edit] Banner and userbox

There are currently a userbox and a banner with assessment parameters which can be found in Category:WikiProject Italy. Badbilltucker 19:25, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Tiny point, but I wonder whether it might be worth considering using the Coat of Arms of the Italian Republic as the project’s logo, rather than the flag? The steel cog-wheel representing work and industry seems rather appropriate to a wikiproject. —Ian Spackman 14:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Uhm, I see your point, but I'm not sure. That represents the Republic, and the scope of the project goes back to well before that... --Nehwyn 17:20, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
True. It’s also true that the scope of the project predates the tricolour, of course. But I guess the flag is more recognizable: especially in small sizes. —Ian Spackman 12:56, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Modifying them to change the image is extremely easy. Simply substitute in the "Image" address of the correct image. Just thinking here that the sooner the discussion of which image is used ends, the sooner the finalized templates can start to applied on the articles. Not implying that the discussion is not worth having, because I had stupidly never even considered anything but the current flag, so thanks for thinking further than I myself did. Badbilltucker 01:04, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Added {{PAGENAME}} to project banner. - Patricknoddy (talk · contribs) 9:31am, February 10, 2007

[edit] Italy AID

How about we have an article improvement drive for articles about Italy?Here is an example of one. Kingjeff 17:19, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Good. —Ian Spackman 12:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Another possibility is to do like WikiProject Biography and some other projects do. They've tried to determine what are the top importance articles to their project to let the members know that those articles are the ones requiring the greatest attention the quickest, regardless of how many members work on them when. Either way works. Badbilltucker 01:06, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Romano Prodi

There's been an edit war related to his alleged ties to the KGB. Could someone from this Wikiproject held decide whether the allegations merit inclusion? The section in question is here. I couldn't really find any mainstream information on this, and I'm inclined to believe it's a fringe theory being given a little too much merit. Because of the controversial nature of the material, I have removed it per WP:BLP until consensus about reliable sources can be determined. --Wafulz 02:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

The allegations are cruel. But thats the way it works in the world of intel. One day a cuddly Santa is giving out presents, the next he's been uncovered as a KGB guy putting mics in the presents! Its not so serious and the controvosy diserves to be covered without project italy's opinion, they are as clueless as we are. According to the guidelines the main thing is are refs. Chavatshimshon 10:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
If all editors are clueless, the section should simply be removed. It’s very boring in a way, but Wikipedia is intended to be an encyclopedia! —Ian Spackman 15:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 21:27, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alberto Rabagliati

Hello all! I come under the auspices of WikiProject Abandoned Articles, a project aiming to bring 'abandoned' articles back to life. I was hoping that someone here might be able to help us with Alberto Rabagliati, which hasn't been edited for about two years. The original text seems to have been translated from the Italian Wikipedia, so there may be new information there to be translated into the English Wiki. Thanks for your time. --Lord Pheasant 23:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Italy-org-stub

Hi guys,

The template {{Italy-org-stub}} has recently been created for the Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub Sorting. It would be nice if you could add it to any stubs about organizations based in Italy you happen to come accross.

Thanx,

--Carabinieri 19:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible expansion of project?

Would the members of this project object to including articles related to San Marino to its scope? Right now there is no specific project dealing with it, and the state is entirely surrounded by Italy. Badbilltucker 16:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Using Italian terms

How would you all feel about using Italian words and nomenclatures in all Italian administrative division article texts? eg, refer to Regioni of Italy throughout the text of the articles. --Bob 03:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chafik Charobim

This is the most relevent WikiProject I could find, but this is a new article that could do with a little attention, and I was hoping one of you would be willing to do it. I didn't write it, just tagged it and moved it. Thanks. J Milburn 11:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prime minister of Italy

How do people here feel about whether the "M" should be capitalized? I think it should not be, a maggior ragione because "prime minister" is not even the official title. Note that the last person to move the article, User:OCNative, has blocked it from being moved back by editing the redirect at prime minister of Italy so that it has a history; the redirect will have to be admin deleted to accomplish the move. --Trovatore 16:56, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

"Prime Minister" is an English term and as such it should be treated following the rules of the English language; if it was left untranslated, as "primo ministro", I would agree on keeping it lowercase. To give an example, we don't write "italian" instead of "Italian" even if in Italian it doesn't need capitalization. --Εξαίρετος (msg) 19:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, but I'm not convinced it should be capitalized in English. The guidelines at WP:MOS are somewhat confused on this point (I've left a note on the talk page there). Note that we don't capitalize "president" unless used with a name ("Today, President Bush, the American president, said..."). Capitlizing "Prime Minister" strikes me as a British usage, which is fine at Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. But in the case of Italy, since it's neither American nor part of the Commonwealth and none of the other spelling criteria apply, the fallback would be to the first non-stub version of the article, which uses a lowercase m. --Trovatore 19:14, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Btw, what about using the official name (Presidente del Consiglio dei Ministri, it should at least be a redirect)? "Primo ministro" and "premier" are common, but people generally refer to the prime minister as "Presidente del Consiglio". Actually, it's funny, the article on it.wiki is at it:Presidente del Consiglio dei ministri: the user Gp 1980 moved it saying it should be lowercase, but I'm not convinced. On the official page it's capitalized; I guess I'll move it. --Εξαίρετος (msg) 19:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
That should be a redirect, as should presidente del consiglio dei ministri and president of the council of ministers (note that President of the Council of Ministers is already there as a redirect), but first, I think, we ought to settle what they should redirect to. Otherwise it's just more cleanup in the case of a move. It is really peculiar that the it.wiki article would have "Consiglio" uppercase but "ministri" lowercase; that should certainly be fixed if nothing else. But I don't think the capitalization on the official site of the presidency is particularly relevant; WP is entitled to its own capitalization style (though clearly it shouldn't make one up out of whole cloth, and it should make logical sense and be consistent to the extent possible). --Trovatore 20:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Even as a Briton I would use a lower-case “M” in this case as it is not an official title. But, as usual with naming questions, the content seems to raise more questions than the name. It describes the prime thingie (aka Prime Thingie) as holding the “fourth-most important state office”. That seems very odd. Even if we accept that Napolitano ‘comes above’ Prodi (which is sometimes true, sometimes not), who are the two chaps (or chicks) who come between them? —Ian Spackman 19:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow, I never thought about it in depth; from googling around a bit, it seems that the the order is as follows:

  1. Presidente della Repubblica
  2. Presidente del Senato della Repubblica
  3. Presidente della Camera dei Deputati
  4. Presidente del Consiglio dei Ministri

The order is the one of the presidency, not that of their actual power: if the President of the Republic dies or is unable to do his job, the President of the Senate becomes temporarily President of the Republic, and so on. The President of the Republic is "above" the prime minister because he represents the State (il Presidente della Repubblica è il capo dello Stato e rappresenta l'unità nazionale - quote from the Italian Constitution). --Εξαίρετος (msg) 21:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that’s clear! Thanks. —Ian Spackman 09:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


I have started the "requested moves" process at talk:Prime Minister of Italy; please feel free to contribute. --Trovatore 08:52, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Italian film titles

In film titles, the foreign version often becomes the title of the article, so we are having a discussion in Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (films)#Capitalization in titles, trying to establish what is correct for each language. We would appreciate if you could drop us a line about it. Hoverfish Talk 21:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ludovico Racaniello: a spoof?

I recently translated this article from the Italian Wikipedia—it originally turned up here as a machine translation and a proper one had been requested—and I am a little concerned.

The problem is that outside of Wikipedia and its parasites I have been quite unable to source any part of the article which refers directly to Ludovico. The same problem, in fact, applies to the article on the Racaniello family itself, which is supposed to be an ancient noble family of Umbrian origins but which fails to turn up at all at http://www.sardimpex.com, which I take to be a fairly decent genealogy site. I don’t just mean that there is no page for the family, but that I cannot even find an instance of a member of the family marrying some other Italian noble. (Nor does it seem to turn up anywhere else known to Google.)

Of course it might be a relatively minor member of a relatively minor family whose importance is being exaggerated a bit. But at the moment I feel that I should probably nominate my work for deletion. Any thoughts? —Ian Spackman 14:19, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

No idea; if the family was really noble there should have been some google hit, at least on sardimpex. Since there isn't any, it was at most a prominent family of Todi; for instance, the Medici weren't a noble family, although they were signori of Florence, until Florence became a duchy. And Ludovico is after all classified as a condottiere, so basically the leader of a mercenary army; I doubt they were noble at all. Thus, I guess the family should be proposed for deletion: as for Ludovico, I'm not really sure, maybe the author (who appears to be anonymous btw) used a printed publication as source. I'll propose the family article on it.wiki to be deleted and raise the question there. --Εξαίρετος (msg) 15:13, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Εξαίρετος, that’s very helpful. I’ll watch the Italian pages. The articles certainly claim nobility: indeed the one on Ludovico refers to a ‘ducato di Racaniello’, no less.
If, as I suspect, it is a spoof then it has been done rather well! The background history seems to be right. Hawkwood, for instance, did vacate the castle of Montecchio Vesponi at about the right time: but nothing I could google said who succeeded him there. (Odd, as it’s rather an important-looking castle.) Cortona did pass to Florence in 1411. (Basically, they bought it: but that doesn’t preclude there having been a bit of fight before.) Arezzo probably did have something like a proconsul in 1419. But does the internet contain a list of rulers or governers covering that year? Not one I could find.
It’s rather as if someone has spotted a little gap in the internet’s coverage of Italian history and has invented a clever fiction to plug it. Or perhaps they have plugged it with the truth?
Finally the stemma feels a bit dubious. But I am no student of heraldry.
Cheers! Ian Spackman 16:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Ok, it:Utente:Senofonte added a reference to the article in both it.wiki and here; he also says he saw the stemma when visiting Cortona. According to the book, though, Racaniello administered a contado, not a duchy; the difference is that a duchy implies a duke, while a "contado", which originally was the same as a "contea" (county), doesn't automatically imply a count, as the term was also used for the land owned by a comune (in modern Italian, "contadino" means "farmer"). I don't know which word to pick to translate "contado". Any thoughts? --Εξαίρετος (msg) 09:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Splendid work! On contado, the Italian reads “contado di Racaniello”, rather than “contado di [some commune]”. So perhaps translate as “Racaniello lands”. It’s slightly vague, but I don’t think that’s a great problem, and it is idiomatic English. However, I realise that I may have made a mistake in translating that sentence anyway. Currently on the Italian Wiki it reads
Nel 1397 entrò in conflitto con la famiglia dei Casali per il possesso di Cortona, conflitto che si protrasse per più di quindici anni, fino al 1411, anno in cui il territorio passò sotto il controllo di Firenze e rientrò nel contado di Racaniello.
I assumed Ludovico was the implicit subject of rientrò (as he is of the entrò at the start of the sentence). But it could be that territorio is the subject. That gives us two possible meanings to the last bit of the sentence:
…1411, the year in which the territory [of Cortona] passed under the control of Florence, and in which Ludovico returned to the Racaniello lands.
or:
…1411, the year in which the territory [of Cortona] passed under the control of Florence and its administration was handed back to Racaniello.
(In context, the second doesn’t seem very compelling, as there’s no prior indication that the territory of Cortona had been part of the contado di Racaniello before 1397. )
I don’t at all pretend to have good Italian, so a glance by a native speaker would be very welcome.
(Another tiny note. 1397–1411 is not più di quindici anni!)
—Ian Spackman 14:34, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, Italian is a very ambiguous language, so I can't say I'm sure, but the second translation feels better (just a single comma would have changed the "feeling", though). However, "rientrare" is very ambiguous (an online dictionary gives 10 different meanings; specifically, it doesn't only mean "re-enter", but also (see #5 in the dictionary I linked) "be part of (a group)". So, in this case I think the meaning is that Florence won Cortona's territory and made it a part of Racaniello's contado; I think "contado di Racaniello" in this context means the portion of the land of Florence Racaniello administered. About the tiny note: you're right! :) --Εξαίρετος (msg) 15:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Brilliant. And thanks for making the appropriate changes to the page. —Ian Spackman 10:25, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] San Giuliano di Puglia

I created 2002 Molise earthquake. Categories adding and linking help needed. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:43, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Good work. I have added it to Category:2002 in Italy and a newly-created Category:Earthquakes in Italy. If anyone knows of any other Italian earthquake articles please add those too. (I couldn’t find any, not even for the Messina earthquake of 1908 which has an Italian article at it:Terremoto del 1908.)
On linking help, that will best be done by someone who knows about earthquakes and plate techtonics, I think. Not me! I’ve added the wikify template in the hope it will attract someone.—Ian Spackman 15:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pasta

Greetings,

I have been editing on the Pasta article for sometime now. The article was in this state when I started editing. I've tried to use reliable sources to bring it to bring it to this stage.

Since I have nominated the article for good article, any feedback on the current state and suggestions of improvement will be much appreciated.

Regards,

Phillip Rosenthal 09:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Well great job on the article it looks much better. Lakers 05:16, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, that encourages me to submit more articles related to Italian cuisine for review. Many regards, Phillip Rosenthal 05:05, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bilateral relations discussion

I would like to invite you all to participate in a discussion at this thread regarding bilateral relations between two countries. All articles related to foreign relations between countries are now under the scope of WikiProject Foreign relations, a newly created project. We hope that the discussion will result in a more clean and organized way of explaining such relationships. Thank you. Ed ¿Cómo estás? 18:48, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Istituto Luce

From what I can tell, there's no English language article for Luce. --NEMT 17:10, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A category for Italian ‘territories’

The Italian Wikipedia has a very useful category: it:Categoria:Territori italiani which groups ‘regioni geografiche, regioni storiche e aree culturali omogenee dell'Italia’, as opposed to the twenty administrative regions which are collected under it:Categoria:Regioni italiane. We certainly have enough articles to justify such a category already and the number is growing (Attilios created Lomellina today) and will continue to grow.

Normally I’d just be bold and create the category, but I honestly can’t decide what to call it. The one-word options which spring to mind are

  • Regions
  • Territories
  • Areas
  • Districts
  • Zones

Regions would be fine, except that we would have to move the existing Category:Regions of Italy to something like Category:Contemporary administrative Regions of Italy, which would be a pain.

Districts and Zones are hopeless. Areas doesn’t work. Territories doesn’t seem quite right.

Geographical, historical and cultural regions of Italy would be fine if it weren’t so long.

Any bright ideas? —Ian Spackman 23:29, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

OK, I went for the long title Category:Geographical, historical and cultural regions of Italy. I hope it proves useful. —Ian Spackman 11:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Latin cultures

Hello everyone! You may want to go to Latin cultures an participate in the article and discussion. There are a lot of disputed statements... The Ogre 12:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Peer Review

Can I ask this WikiProject to contribute to Wikipedia:Peer review/Italian football champions --Dweller 13:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] An invitation to categorize uncategorized Italy-related stubs

Hello. The categorization taskforce is trying to find WikiProjects interested in using the bot of Alai to identify Italy-related stub articles which do not currently have a category (besides the stub category of course). If the project is interested, we could create something like Category:Uncategorized Italy-related stubs (amounting to roughly 450 articles) which could then be categorized by people knowledgeable in the subject, thus reducing the risk of improper categorization. Please let us know on the taskforce's talk page if you're interested. Cheers, Pascal.Tesson 00:32, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

As there was no negative comment on this, and some positive feedback, I've created Cat:uncategorised Italy articles, Cat:uncategorised Italian people and Cat:uncategorised Italian geography articles, and will populate them shortly. Alai 03:55, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

OK, done. Alai 03:49, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Francesco Zingales

Pretty significant military leader, no enwiki article. --NEMT 03:30, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Where do you see him as exceptionally notable? I see through a Google search that he was an Italian WWII commander, apparently in Russia he commanded XXXV Corps, but was going to be a bigger commander had he not fallen ill, so was replaced by Giovanni Messe. The German wikipedia is the only language that has an article on him, correct? I can't read the German, but it appears to also speak of his fighting in Russia. Anyway, I could make an article on him if you want, and I can find a source or two. -KingPenguin 11:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I believe he also served in Abyssinia and the Balkans; he eventually took over for Messe in 1942 as well (1). Additionally, I was of the impression all WW2 commanders were notable enough for wikipedia. Anyway, dewiki seems to always have articles on military commanders often missing in enwiki (and itwiki). If only I could read German... --NEMT 21:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A suggested merge

I have suggested the merger of the articles Municipalities of Italy and Comune as they currently overlap greatly.

Actually I don’t have strong feelings about whether the two articles whould be merged, or simply better coordinated. Currently they don’t even link to each other! But I tend to think the former as if they are not merged the Municipalities of Italy article will need at least to summarize much of the material in Comune. That could all to easily lead to the two articles falling out of step.

Thoughts? If so please air them at Talk:Municipalities of Italy —Ian Spackman 06:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fashion project

I am letting the users of WikiProject Italy know that we have finally established a project devoted to improving Wikipedia's fashion coverage (it has been terrible), WP:FASHION. We've been around for a month or so now tagging articles for inclusion on our worklist. Since many overlap with articles about things and people Italian, you may have noticed.

If any of you are interested in joining, feel free. You can also help by bringing your expertise to the articles we share. Daniel Case 04:16, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Italian cardinals

I think this category is so large as to need subcategories - please contribute to the discussion on its talk page. Neddyseagoon - talk 16:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] new participant & Italy Barnstar

I added myself to the WikiProject Italy today. I'm on wikipedia for two years and working mostly on the WikiProject Military History, specializing in articles about the Alpini, military Orbats and Coat of Arms of the Esercito. I came to the WikiProject Italy by chance, as I was looking today for a the Barnstar of national merit for contributions to articles about Italy, which I intended to award to User:F l a n k e r for tirelessly creating Coat of Arms of public institutions of Italy. (i.e. Guardia di Finanza. As I did not find a National Barnstar I quickly designed one combing the Coat of Arms of the Republic of Italy, our national flag and the basic Barnstar.

Variant B
Variant B


Before I proceed (adding the Barnstar to the WikiProject awards or awarding it) I would like to know if there are any objections, suggestions or other wishes I should observe before doing so. thanks, --noclador 11:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Award has been added to WikiProject awards and may now be awarded to Wikipedians who exhibit exceptional effort and dedication to articles related to WikiProject Italy, by inserting:
{{subst:WikiProject Italy Award|message ~~~~}}
on a Wikipedians talk page. --noclador 10:11, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Galileo Galilei FAR

Galileo Galilei has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:41, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article needed: Oggi

From the aticle on the Italian dinosaur Scipionyx: "The magazine Oggi gave the tiny dinosaur the nickname Ciro ..." -- Anyone care to begin a stub on Oggi? Thanks. -- 201.19.40.176 16:53, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

N.b., Italian Wikipedia lists both "Oggi ... il giorno corrente, ovvero martedì 17 luglio 2007, il giorno dopo di ieri e prima di domani." at http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oggi and "Oggi ... una delle più diffuse riviste settimanali di attualità italiane ..." at http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oggi_(rivista) -- 201.19.40.176 17:06, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article or redirect needed: Universita degli Studi di Napoli

From the article on the Italian dinosaur Scipionyx: "Cristiano dal Sasso of the Natural History Museum of Milan and Marco Signore of the Universita degli Studi di Napoli in Naples ... identified it as the first Italian dinosaur." -- Universita degli Studi di Napoli is redlink: we need article or redirect. Thanks. -- 201.19.40.176 16:57, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Is this Seconda Università degli Studi di Napoli in Caserta or is it not? Thanks. -- 201.19.40.176 17:01, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

"Università degli Studi di Napoli" is the University of Naples Federico II. The "Seconda Università" was at the beginning a section of the Federico II; most of the faculties are in Caserta, but it also has some in Naples, Aversa, Capua, and Santa Maria Capua Vetere. Cheers --Εξαίρετος (msg) 19:00, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Does someone know Bologna well?

Unidentified portico in Bologna
Unidentified portico in Bologna

And, if so, can they possibly identify this building? (If so, pleaces just edit the Commons page accordingly, I won't be watchlisting this WikiProject page).

By the way, I believe we lack an article on San Pietro Cathedral in Bologna. - Jmabel | Talk 07:30, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orion statue in Naples

Could someone write an e-mail in Italian to the owner of this website, asking for permission to license the top photo under the GFDL or another Wikipedia-compatible free license? Or else of course it would be great if someone in Naples could just take their own photo. This is for the article Orion (mythology). Thank you very much.--Pharos 06:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sicily and related pages

Can we get members to monitor developments at the Sicily, History of Sicily, and related pages? I left a note at the Wikipedia:WikiProject Sicily, but am unsure if any active members are around. Many thanks! El_C 22:33, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roman trade with India

The article would benefit if someone versed in the history of ancient Rome would rate the article on the importance scale. Best Wishes, Havelock the Dane 21:57, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Archaic city names

Greetings from WikiProject Disambiguation! I am working at disambiguating links to [[archaic]]. I find several articles on towns in Province of Bolzano-Bozen where there is an "Archaic" name, with the word "Archaic" capitalized and linked just as though it's a language name. Looking at the histories, these links were added by someone without a username using a different IP each day, so I can't leave a message to that person.

Is this a reference to a specific period or dialect? I don't find an article on Archaic Italian. I'm thinking of just delinking them all, but I am leaving a message here first. — Randall Bart (talk) 09:34, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I just delinked all 49 of them. — Randall Bart (talk) 18:27, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for suggestions

Hi, I'm putting together some images for a table of EU cities. I was wondering if someone could help me out with images for Rome and Milan. I'm looking for some that show something typical for the population, i.e. not a landmark or cityscape but something with people in it. For example with London it might be the Tube or a park, or a shot of a typical street. Size is horizontal. If you can think of anything on the commons for these cities, please drop a note on my talk page. Thanks! - J Logan t: 09:00, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion discussion

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Italian Americans (2nd nomination). Badagnani 02:37, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion discussion: Dalmatian Italians

see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dalmatian Italians. It would be useful to get additional viewpoints on this heated debate. Mariokempes 04:38, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

The "deletion" has been officially rejected thanks even to our interventions, but now the article Dalmatian Italians has been proposed for "Move and rename". Please, participate in the related discussion [[1]] Regards.--Brunodam 15:35, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Palazzo Pitti needs work to remain a WP:FA

This article is seriously under-referenced for a featured article. I'm not in a position to improve it and would like to see it remain featured. DurovaCharge! 16:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Translations

I recently added a page for Pescina in L'Aquila, Abruzzo. I simply translated it from the Italian, thus it is not originally researched in English. The article is lacking citation. My hope is that suitable English citations will be added over time. I apologize for any errors in style or convention - I am not a frequent editor of Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dediablo (talk • contribs) 17:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Palazzo Pitti

Palazzo Pitti has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. (Caniago 14:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Italy national football team

This message serves to notify the members of this WikiProject that the article Italy national football team is the new article improvement drive of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Football. Please help improve the article. AecisBrievenbus 17:22, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Italy cuisine stub

It may be of interest to those in this project to know that a new stub has been created: {{Italy-cuisine-stub}}. Articles with this stub can be found at: Category:Italian cuisine stubs - AKeen 16:26, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Casanova needs your help

Giacomo Casanova ("the" Casanova) is currently tagged "written like a personal reflection or essay and may require cleanup", as well as "needs additional citations for verification". (I myself have no competence in this subject.) -- 201.37.229.117 20:26, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fioi

I've proposed deletion for Fioi, which is part dictionary definition and partly about an artistic group. If the group is at all notable, feel free to remove the prod and add some info. Thanks. --Reuben (talk) 20:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] L'ultima legione / The Last Legion

Hello! Has anyone read the above novel by Valerio Massimo Manfredi? If anyone has, The Last Legion (novel) would be a nice companion piece to The Last Legion, which covers the film version of it. From what I read online, the novel is quite different and the book is much better. Expansion of the film article's "Changes from the book" would also be nice. I expanded the film article somewhat but since I haven't read the book, all changes I contributed (not all) were gleaned from Amazon.com.

Alternately the novel could go into the main namespace then the film would go in The Last Legion (film); I'm not sure about naming conventions - but The Godfather is about the film, while the novel is The Godfather (novel). Uthanc (talk) 12:31, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Please watch Romano Prodi and List of prime ministers of Italy

As always happens when there's a crisis of government in Italy, there's a rash of editors (mostly anons) jumping the gun and making edits that imply the prime minister's term ends today. I've used up my three reverts at Romano Prodi -- need some people to step in and help out. --Trovatore (talk) 23:27, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and an eye needs to be kept on President of the Council of Ministers of Italy as well. --Trovatore (talk) 23:46, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Input is welcomed on the proposed merging of Talk:2008 Italian political crisis into a Prodi article. --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 03:27, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Infoboxes of Italian Presidents

I'm must admit, using Roman numerals for numbering the Presidents? is neat. But, many English readers wouldn't understand them (atleast not right away). Perhaps it's best to change them back to 'numbers' 1st,2nd,3rd... instead of I,II,III...- GoodDay (talk) 22:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

In looking at similar infoboxes elsewhere, there does not appear to be any consistent standard. Most do not have any numbers at all. I would say that Roman numerals are understandable enough to most and fit with a civic-oriented article (and it's rather fitting for Italian articles, in particular). The only issue I have is that the infoboxes for the Italians PMs and Presidents should use the same format. Arabic or Roman numerals: either is fine by me. --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 03:31, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Roman numerals are standard usage for eg kings, so English readers will be perfectly at home with the idea. FlagSteward (talk) 18:07, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
That is why English readers will not be at home with the idea. There is a definite implication of royalty about the use of Roman numerals; it is misleading to use it for Presidents of a Republic. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:56, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Project page etc

As you may have noticed, I took the liberty of redesigning the Project page into two columns, based on the Wine Project homepage. I know there's a couple of red links on it for things like a Newsletter an article improvement drive, but I thought that they might act as inspiration. :-)) And hopefully having the assessment table more prominent might encourage people to work a bit more on some articles, particularly the Top Starts : History of Italy during Roman times, History of Italy during foreign domination and the unification and Piedmont. The middle one of those in particular needs some attention - since we already have articles on the Italian wars and unification, I suggest that it is pruned of the stuff that belongs in those two articles, renamed appropriately - and then expanded. I've also added List and NA classes to the template, and done a bit of assessment to clean up the assessment table. FlagSteward (talk) 18:07, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Emery Molyneux: Translation of non-English terms

Help would be much appreciated in translating the following book title appearing in the article "Emery Molyneux" that is not in English:

  • "Primo Volume delle Navigationi et Viaggi nel qual si contiene la descrittione dell'Africa: e del Paese del Prete Ianni, con varii viaggi, dal Mar Rosso à Calicut, et infin all'Isole Molucche... et la Navigatione attorno il Mondo".

Do respond on the article's talk page. Thanks very much! — Cheers, JackLee –talk– 04:12, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assessments, frazione infobox

I've requested a frazione infobox along the lines of the comune -> CityIT infobox, it needs doing. As you may have noticed, I've assessed 900-odd Unassessed articles, and am planning to do more. I'm investigating various semi-automatic tools to help with this process, including writing some of my own and I've asked SatyrBot to give us a hand. He can look for stub templates in articles and assess them as class=stub on the Project banner. He can also add the project banner to any articles in a Category that doesn't already have them - I think this would be a useful thing to do, particularly on any italian... stub articles that aren't already in the Project. Anyone think this is a bad idea? FlagSteward (talk) 23:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I say comuni, you say communes

Can we sort out the comuni/communes thing once and for all, at least when it comes to article names. Over on Talk:Communes of the province of Bolzano-Bozen a debate has started that really belongs here, I tried to rename that article to be consistent with the following, but was reverted :

Comuni of the Aosta Valley, Comuni of the Province of Avellino, Comuni of the Province of Benevento, Comuni of the Province of Bologna, Comuni of the Province of Caserta, Comuni of the Province of Catanzaro, Comuni of the Province of Cosenza, Comuni of the Province of Crotone, Comuni of the Province of Ferrara, Comuni of the Province of Forlì-Cesena, Comuni of the Province of Matera, Comuni of the Province of Modena, Comuni of the Province of Naples, Comuni of the Province of Parma, Comuni of the Province of Pesaro e Urbino, Comuni of the Province of Piacenza, Comuni of the Province of Potenza, Comuni of the Province of Ravenna, Comuni of the Province of Reggio Calabria, Comuni of the Province of Reggio Emilia, Comuni of the Province of Rimini, Comuni of the Province of Salerno, Comuni of the Province of Terni, Comuni of the Province of Vibo Valentia, Comuni of the Province of Viterbo

Looking more closely it's a real dog's dinner, we have Municipalities of Italy, Comuni of the Region of Basilicata, the categories use Communes of... and there's the following individual articles :

Amaro (municipality)
Bianchi (commune), Canna (commune), Fardella (commune), Lago (commune), Lesina (commune), Longobardi (commune), Ponza (commune), San Gregorio Magno (commune)
Bonito (Comune), Castelseprio (comune), Certosa di Pavia (comune), Grimaldi (comune), Lago (commune), Parenti (comune), Salento (comune)

And on Bonito, some inconsistent capitalisation to boot! :-) There's been some discussion of this over on Talk:Comune and the consensus was that commune is an imperfect translation of comune, whereas comune at least has the merits of accuracy and lack of ambiguity. I hear the arguments for WP:ENGLISH, but we're also in WP:COMMONNAME territory, and comune is not uncommon in English discussions of Italy. Unfortunately I'm about to go on holiday, but for the record I prefer both comune and township over commune, I'm not dead against the latter but I just think it is a problematic translation. But for me the priority is to get some consistency - I may not be keen on "commune", but it's a whole lot better than a mish-mash of "commune", "comune", "Comune" and "municipality". FlagSteward (talk) 14:42, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

As for individual articles, we could use for example Fardella (PZ), Salento (SA), etc., like we usually do for Italian cities.--Supparluca 15:27, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Comune is not an English word; commune is. This may be a piece of geographic unfairness, but short of moving Italy retroactively to the English Channel, not much can be done about it now. Township is horrifying; it has strong implications in English, but they differ from one country to another, indeed from one American State to the next. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:59, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
"Haddock" is an English word - but we're not intending to rename these articles "Haddock of Italy". Why not? Because "haddock" is an inappropriate translation of the word "comuni" in Italian. "Townships" would be a better word - but not perfect - "municpalities" better still. I'm not convinced that "communes" is the right word to use if you're translating "comuni", although that's something you seem to assume by default. As discussed over on Talk:Comune one problem is that "commune" has acquired several meanings over the years. Does a list of "Communes of Italy" refer to a list of comuni, a list of kibbutzes or a list of medieval communes? In contrast there is absolutely no ambiguity about what is meant by "Comuni of Italy" - and that precision is a powerful argument in favour of using "comuni".
Besides, Commune is a French word that became used in English because it described a useful concept that there was no existing word for - unfortunately that word has now acquired a diversity of meanings. Comune is a word that is often used in discussion of Italy in the English language - just have a poke round Google Scholar - so in that regard it too is becoming part of the English language. You'll also see in those Google Scholar papers the translation of "Comune" as "township" in respectablle English-language journals. All of which has me thinking that in the words of WP:NCGN "in general, however, we should avoid using names unrecognizable to literate anglophones where a widely accepted alternative exists." I would argue that literate anglophones do recognise the word "comuni", just like in Britain at least, département would almost invariably be used over "department". Furthermore "If no name can be shown to be widely accepted in English, use the local official name." Commune, comune, municipality, township - better to use the local offical name of comune. Also note in WP:ENGLISH the "Borderline cases" section which states "more consideration should be given to the correctness of translation, rather than frequency of usage". FlagSteward (talk) 01:30, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
I am pleased to see that the wording of WP:NCGN is so widely quotable; I helped write much of it. But this ignores a fundamental principle of WP:NAME: Our article names are intended for general readers, not for specialists; and knowledge of Italian is a specialization.
  • Comune, surely, has all the ambiguity of commune: or is it not used for kibbutzim and for the communes of the High Renaissance? The proper solution is to link to Comune, wherever that article winds up; but we should write English, not Italian. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Pmanderson - the proper usage is English, and the proper translation of comune is commune or municipality. You should simply take a vote and take the most popular translation form. Only in rare cases where a subdivision entity does not directly translate is it feasible to use the native naming convention. Comuni does not have that as an issue. Rarelibra (talk) 06:19, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I second most of what Raralibra says here, and I doubt that most literate anglophones who have no specialist interest in Italy would recognise the word comuni. As far as I understand these matters, both commune and municipality are proper translations, but neither is without its awkwardness.
For at least one British reader municipality comes over as archaic and rather obscure. It is true that the town I grew up in had its municipal baths, but even in those days when the busses still carried warnings against spitting (a tuberculosis thing), the local authority wasn’t called a municipality. (It was a corporation). I don’t even know which, if any, of the levels of local government would count as a municipality in the place in which I live today. Having looked at the relevant articles, I still don’t, but note this from the article Municipality: ‘In the United Kingdom […] the term municipality and the word municipal in general is not commonly heard.’
Commune is also likely to seem quite surprising to some literate Anglophones, although you might reasonably expect them to guess that it’s roughly the same kind of thing as a French commune, and they should have some sort of idea what that is.
But enough of my preferences, what do those real authorities the dictionaries say? ‘Commune' is defined in the Collins Concise as ‘the smallest administrative unit in Belgium, France, Italy and Swizerland’. The Collins-Sansoni Italian-English seems to concur ‘Comune (suddivisione amministrativa: in Italia, Francia, ecc.) commune.’ The Penguin Concise Italian dictionary (based on a 1962 C.U.P. dictionary) suggests ‘urban district’, ‘commune’ or ‘local goverment’. —Ian Spackman (talk) 17:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Also my Italian-English dictionary says "comune commune (in Italy, France and Belgium); municipality (in the other countries)". So I prefer commune.--Supparluca 18:55, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Bilingual dictionaries are not terribly reliable on matters like this. Lots of times they just come up with a word, even if it's not really correct for the application you have in mind. In English "communes" has connotations you can't escape, and they're not appropriate here. --Trovatore (talk) 19:01, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
But I did start by quoting an ordinary English dictionary. And I think that givng due weight to the opinions of professional lexicographers is a way forward. —Ian Spackman (talk) 19:27, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

My due lire: "communes" is not going to work. It has far too strong echoes of either left-wing politics or of less ideological hippy free-love-and-ganja living arrangements. I think it would not be too strong to say that "commune" and comune are falsi amici.

If people aren't happy with untranslated comune, then I think "urban district" is probably the least bad of the suggestions I've heard. --Trovatore (talk) 18:45, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

But many are not urban! —Ian Spackman (talk) 19:19, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, frankly that's a good reason to use comuni, as it really appears that there is no precise translation in English. But almost anything is better than "communes". Note that your 1962 dictionary is from before the hippy meaning -- now the primary one -- was known. --Trovatore (talk) 19:27, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Can we refer to how the European Community translates that word in UK english? --Cantalamessa (talk) 16:57, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, I don't see anything wrong with saying that, assuming it can be sourced, which I'm willing to believe. But I do see something wrong with naming articles and categories with the word "commune", which strikes me as not at all a good translation. Admittedly the hippy commune phenomenon was probably mostly an American thing so it may be that the word is still usable for other purposes in England. But if Ian objects to "municipality" on the grounds that it sounds archaic in UK English, I have to object to "commune" on the grounds of how it sounds in American English. --Trovatore (talk) 18:59, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I say town, Milan, you say town (MI)

Splitting this off from the previous thread :

Heh - that's another thing I'd been meaning to mention, to me that convention fails WP:ENGLISH and WP:COMMONNAME - if possible I'd suggest the natural English usage is Fardella, Italy etc. There's also a bigger WP:COMMONNAME problem - North Americans in particular will assume eg "MS" refers to Mississippi rather than Massa-Carrara, whereas others might assume you meant an ISO country code - Montserrat. I know it makes it easier to sync with it.wiki articles, but for me it's unsatisfactory - spell out the province if there's more than one in Italy. FlagSteward (talk) 16:05, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
You mean Calliano (Province of Asti) - Calliano (Province of Trento)?--Supparluca 16:35, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
The standard Wikipedia format seems to be eg Rome, New York rather than Rome (State of New York), so I'd suggest that your examples would go to Calliano, Asti and Calliano, Trento - and to Calliano if there was only one in the world, Calliano, Italy if there was another one elsewhere in the world but only one in Italy. I know it helps the interwiki thing, but WP:ENGLISH and WP:COMMONNAME seem to apply here - and there's a more general aim of consistency across all placename articles. I'd suggest this is really the sort of thing to be decided by WikiProject Geography, but for the moment I'd suggest the Calliano, Asti format is the one to go for. FlagSteward (talk) 17:39, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Man - this is a can of worms. The current guidelines are at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (settlements) and the talk pages there run to 23 pages of archives. The only convention seems to be that at the moment, individual countries set their own guidelines. About the only thing that people seem to agree on is that :
  • Calliano on its own should be used if there's only one in the world. (and even so some people argue about that. ;-/)
There seems a fairly wide consensus that :
  • Calliano, Italy should be used if there's only one Calliano in Italy
After that, at the moment each country is left to do it how they want. The one certainty is that for towns, you should not use Calliano (municipality) or Calliano (town), but disambiguate it with Italy or some other regional identifier. And also that while the Calliano (AT) format may be the standard use in Italy, that only works because they don't have to worry about whether eg PA stands for Palermo, Pennsylvania or Panama. On a global encylopedia we do have that problemn - and on en.wiki, Pennsylvania would be the WP:COMMONNAME. On it.wiki Palermo would be the common name. On the brackets/commas thing the official line is here and I'm not sure I'm any the wiser - brackets may be more technically correct, commas are more consistent with the rest of Wikipedia. So I'd tend to use :
  • Calliano, Piedmont if possible - more people will know where Piedmont is than Asti, and Piedmont is unambiguously a regional designation, whereas Calliano, Asti could be read as Calliano being a suburb of the town of Asti. But if there's two Callianos in a region, then you obviously have to use the province name or smaller unit. I accept bringing regions into it makes it slightly less consistent (although that problem is eliminated by the fact that we are a computer encyclopedia so can redirect from Calliano, Asti and Calliano (AT)) but seems better from the POV of the typical English-speaking user of a global encyclopedia.
FlagSteward (talk) 14:44, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Rome, New York is American usage, which is why we follow it. Florence, Italy or Florence, Tuscany are both acceptable American (and, I believe British) but we should not disambiguate Italian municipalities unless necessary. In particular, we should not move Florence; it's primary usage. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:03, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Don't worry, moving Florence to Florence, Tuscany was such an obviously dumb idea it didn't even occur to me to make that explicit. No, I'm just talking about the ~1% of cases where there's more than one of a town name, and no obvious claim to primacy so there needs to be some kind of disambiguation in the article name. Like the two Callianos in Asti and Trento mentioned above. Right - that really is me off on holiday now, unless by some miracle there's a satellite dish where I'm going.... FlagSteward (talk) 01:31, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment drive

As you may have noticed, I'd had a bit of a blitz on assessing the Unassessed articles. I've now pretty much knocked the non-comune ones on the head - please don't hesitate to reassess anything you take a different view on, subject to the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Italy/Assessment#Instructions assessment guidelines - assessments are rather subjective and are inherently rather fluid things, they're just intended to set rough priorities rather than be set in stone. I've applied for approval for a bot to handle the assessment of a large percentage of comune articles, and then I'll sweep up whatever that leaves behind. There's about 1000 comune articles within the project and more outside it that currently lack a CityIT infobox; as well as this being a significant goal in its own right, my assessment bot relies on extracting the population from that infobox to assign Importance to an article, so I've written a little thing to semi-automatically transwiki the it.wiki Comune boxes. Unfortunately I'm away for the next 10 days, I'd hoped to get it all done before I went but it ain't going to happen now. If there's an existing bot to copy the infoboxes, please go ahead and use it. I also feel that there's quite a lot of articles without a Project banner that ought to have one - including large chunks of the comuni articles, the Marche comuni are an example from memory. There's various bots around that can assign articles to Projects based on categories, such as SatyrBot I mentioned above - someone also might want to set up User:AlexNewBot to assign newly-created articles to the Project. FlagSteward (talk) 18:25, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

On the communes lacking an info-box, there’s a marginally out of date list at User:Ian Spackman/List of Italian communes lacking an info box. It was based on a list FlagSteward produced of Italian settlements more generally which lacked an info box. —Ian Spackman (talk) 19:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Latin Europe

Hello WikiProject Italy! There is a vote going on at Latin Europe that might interest you. Please everyone, do come and give your opinion and votes. Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 20:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bucentaur: Translation of Italian and Latin terms

Hi, help would be much appreciated in translating the following Italian and Latin terms in the article "Bucentaur" into English:

[edit] Italian

  • "La Nuova regia su l'acque nel Bucintoro nuovamente cretto all'annua solenne funzione del giorno dell'Ascensione di Nostro Signore".
  • "Habiti d'hvomeni et donne venetiane: con la processione della serma. Signoria et altri particolari cioè trionfi feste cerimonie pvbliche della nobilissima città di Venetia".
  • "sovraprovveditore". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacklee (talk • contribs) 15:42, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Latin

  • "cum uno artificioso et solemni Bucentauro, super quo venit usque ad S. Clementem, quo jam pervenerat principalior et solemnior Bucentaurus cum consiliariis, &c".
  • "quod Bucentaurus Dominions ducis Fiat for Dominium et teneatur in Arsenatu".
  • "Antonii Coradini sculptoris Inventum". [Translated – thanks.]

Do respond on the article's talk page. Thanks very much. — Cheers, JackLee –talk– 04:19, 28 February 2008 (UTC), updated 15:25, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Major Cities in Italy

At the moment, requirement for belonging to this category is 100,000 people population. According to this rule, Giugliano in Campania (pop. 110,065) is one of Italy major cities. Is there someone who support a 300,000 people raising rule for this category ? See List of cities in Italy article with cities and population for an help in determining an agreeable criteria. --EH101 (talk) 23:55, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

  • 300,000 support --EH101 (talk) 23:55, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Personally I'd lean a little more toward 200k. Perhaps it's a bit arbitrary, but there are a couple cities within that extra 100k that I always think of as being rather "major". --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 01:49, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
  • 150,000. (This includes all the cities shown in this map except Augusta and Sassari). Maybe the category should be renamed.--Supparluca 07:44, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
...and that picture could be easily modified. I volunteer when criteria will be determined.--EH101 (talk) 21:24, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Done ! ->here<---EH101 (talk) 21:47, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Marco Lupis

Is he WP:NOTABLE? His article is up for deletion. Kittybrewster ☎ 08:58, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Be informed equivalent article was canceled on it.wiki. Meanwhile a legal caution notice was sent to that project OTRS from the person (see it:Wikipedia:Pagine_da_cancellare/Marco_Lupis/2)--EH101 (talk) 23:19, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I'd say the links to royalty (provided the refs are appropriate: I didn't check them) satisfy notability along the lines of WP:PAPER. From looking at some of the editors and the style of the article, however, I suspect there may be some WP:COI issues (as the existing tag suggests). That's not inherently bad (I've done similar actions(1) (2)), but just something to keep in mind in that references should be both abundant and carefully scrutinised. --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 23:52, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
And just to summarise the Italian discussion, the quarrel appears to have indeed been the COI issue as well as limited notability -- the same issues which apply here. It definitely rests on opinion: do people lean more toward stringent notability criteria; or more toward WP:PAPER? Note that IT does have WP:PAPER as well as Bio notability (both of which can sometimes be rather contradictory policies across the wikis). I'd say that IT's bio notability requirements are more stringent than EN, so that may be more cause for deletion there than here. Either way, both cases should be treated separately. --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 00:05, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Etruscans taskforce

I'm looking into creating a taskforce to improve the quality of articles relating to the Etruscan civilization. Let me you if you'd be interested in joining or you have ideas about which project it would best be organized under. Best wishes/Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 13:51, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Italian Co-Belligerent Army: were still ideologically Fascist?

When Victor Emmanuel III of Italy kicked Mussolini out of the Italian government after the vote of no confidence at the Grand Council of Fascism and a replacement government was formed. These disenters of Mussolini were still technically ideologically fascist until the end right? or is there evidence to suggest they ever rebuked it after July 24, 1943? I'm talking about Pietro Badoglio, Galeazzo Ciano, Dino Grandi, the main players.

The Italian Co-Belligerent Army who fought on the side of the Allies, along with the Italian leftists, are usually described as just "royalist", but technically isn't "fascist royalist" a more correct way to describe their allingment and technical political stance? - Gennarous (talk) 23:58, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] People jumping the gun to update articles in accordance with the election results

Just a reminder that people need to keep an eye on articles like Silvio Berlusconi, Romano Prodi, Prime minister of Italy, Template:Politics of Italy, List of prime ministers of Italy, etc., to make sure they are not changed to assert things that are not yet true (such as saying that Berlusconi is presidente del consiglio).

There is currently a somewhat problematic edit at Template:Politics of Italy, claiming that Berlusconi is "Prime Minister-designate". I'm not sure what to do about that one -- I understand the intent, but it doesn't seem formally correct to me. Who supposedly "designated" him? Not the voters -- their votes were for parties, not for the presidenza del consiglio. And Napolitano has presumably not yet asked Berlusconi to form a government. --Trovatore (talk) 01:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of basic Italy topics

A new table of contents has been added to Wikipedia for Italy-related subjects. It's part of the Lists of basic topics set.

It needs proofreading, copy-editing, fact checking, format refinement, image placement, etc.

It falls under the scope of WikiProject Italy, so put it on your watchlists, todo lists, and maintenance lists.

My guess is that Japan has the best list. That's what you are competing against.

Good luck.

The Transhumanist    01:53, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Translation of FA it:Pasque Veronesi into Veronese Easters

Could anyone help with this translation please? Thanks. Neddyseagoon - talk 13:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Italian cabinets

There is a big mistake in the count of cabinets. This is the official list [2] from the official website. So for example Berlusconi will probably start his forth cabinet, not his third. Paolotacchi (talk) 13:29, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment drive update

I figure the end of the month is a good time to report back on what I've been up to. In fact I've reached a bit of a landmark, in that I've now assessed all the unassessed non-comune articles on the list I created when I started this 2 months ago. Now of course there's been another 80 no-importance Stubs and 250 Unassesseds added since then, but having done 1600-odd articles already, that doesn't seem too big an obstacle. What's really taken the time is that I stupidly decided part way through to do a bit of quality control as I went along. Just getting an infobox (and persondata if appropriate) into every Unassessed article seemed worth doing, of course that then developed into wikifying, adding interwikis and listas if I remembered, at least one proper reference is always nice, and in some cases I ended up doing complete rewrites to B-class standard, depending on how enthusiastic I felt. Hence why it's taken so long, but it feels like I've made a difference to several 100 articles, although the 100+ cyclists were a bit of a low point... I also got pretty bogged down with the fashion articles, which in general are popular (quite often 100k+ hits/year) but badly written, and if they're referenced at all, tend to use random Google hits as sources. It also doesn't help that even the WP:RS in that area can be contradictory, you should certainly be wary of the fact-checking on the NYT fashion articles in particular.
I figured that the articles on modern designers will look after themselves one way or another, and I find the historic figures more fun anyway - how many modern designers will have Wiki articles citing the CIA as a major source like Emilio Pucci does? And founding a multinational empire is much less interesting than the creative genius that fails in business, like Elsa Schiaparelli or Fiorucci. The one article that I couldn't face but that is a complete disaster is Roberto Cavalli - it looks like it came from his press office, it needs a complete rewrite. Another thing that might be fairly easily fixed by spending half an hour in a department store with a camera, is the lack of photos in the fashion articles. There's a reasonable number of logos, some pictures of stores, but almost no pics of eg a Fendi baguette bag. I guess one reason is that Betacommandbot has been cleaning out a lot of images that were grabbed from websites. :-) But it should be quite easy to take reasonable photos of that kind of thing (in general there's no problem in eg taking a photo of someone wearing a Pucci dress, but putting the cloth in a scanner would be a no-no). Other areas that I've noticed need work, in no particular order:

  1. Something that would help me a lot on the comune infoboxes would be to have more saint articles - we're missing a lot of the "middle-ranking" saints that are still big enough to be patrons of quite a few comuni, let alone the little local saints. Sort of thing that there must be lots of out-of-copyright books about, so I guess it would be quite easy to do - I'll see what I can do about organising a "wish list".
  2. The mountains are in reasonable shape (they have their own Project), but I quite often see red links to rivers/valleys. Some of that could be fixed by unifying the river and valley articles, but it's definitely something I've noticed - and not just minor Alpine torrents, either.
  3. The Province Of.... articles are generally in pretty poor shape, I'd guess they're more of a priority than the comuni right now.
  4. I've got some plans for the comuni, but I suspect there's quite a lot of frazioni articles out there that need sweeping into the Project and the frazioni categories, if you see any "loose" ones. More on them later, but I'll also make the comment that even the it.wiki guys give up and lump all the frazioni, localita, borghate etc into a single category - I know it won't satisfy the pedants, but that would seem to make life a lot easier.
  5. If anyone wants some nice little "discreet" projects to tackle, then you could go round some of the big cities, sorting out their quartieri/rioni etc to say low B standard - Naples would be a good one to start with.
  6. Politics - most of the parties are in quite good shape, but I've suggested over on Talk:Forza Italia that it might make sense to consolidate various small articles into a single Factions of Forza Italia type article, which could give valuable context. Even it.wiki doesn't have an article for the Liberal-Popular Union. Or was it the Liberal Populars‎, Popular Liberalism‎ or the People's Front of Judaea? And there's quite a few red links scattered over the politics nav boxes: Template:Italian political party factions, Template:Secretary of the Italian Socialist Party, Template:President of the Italian Senate and so on.
  7. Companies - it's a general weakness of Wikipedia, but the coverage of Italian companies is pretty weak. I suspect one reason may be that there's not much coverage in English of any but the very biggest quoted companies, and odd sectors like the fashion industry.
  8. Just as a comment, I've seen several articles use "Province of Bolzano-Bozen" where the natural WP:ENGLISH usage would be Alto Adige, or Alto Adige/South Tyrol - particularly in the history articles. Something to watch out for, I can understand why it's happened but it's wrong English.
  9. Interwikis - it's always worth checking to see if there's an equivalent it.wiki article and if so, creating interwiki links. If nothing else it could give you several sources of inspiration for the en.wiki article, but interwikis are important in their own right, particularly for a Project like this.
  10. Images from other wikipedias - the other reason to look for interwikis, there's often photos you can move across to here or Commons.

Those are just some ideas if people are looking for jobs to do. My personal plan looks something like this :

  1. Get my bot running to auto-assess the comune articles within the Project
  2. Then do the comune articles outside it - it's almost easier for me if they've not already got Project tags, so don't worry about tagging comune articles for now
  3. Clear up the remaining unassessed articles and get them down to zero.
  4. Once all that's done, I'll give Satyrbot the word and it can add thousands more articles to the Project based on membership of "Italian" categories, and we start all over again... But it would be nice to see that zero first. :-) In the meantime, there's the City IT infoboxes :
  5. I've already synced the it.wiki comuni with the official ISTAT list of 8101, so I just need to use that to identify the equivalent en.wiki articles and get the bot to assess them all for the project
  6. Do some more work on the saints if I can't persuade someone else to do it :-)
  7. Then I can get on with my tool for speeding up the City IT infoboxes - sorry Ian, I've got a bit waylaid on that, but it is still happening. Trouble is that it seems to entail some fairly major housekeeping jobs before you can get on with it - for instance, to get some help with linking the frazioni, you need a list of en.wiki frazioni articles. So you look at the current ones in the cats, and find that most of them are stubs with no it.wiki equivalent (so I was bold and redirected them to the comune), some justified creating it.wiki equivalents, and in other cases they needed interwikis setting up in one direction or the other. Then it was over to it.wiki, consolidated a list of all the articles with either a frazione infobox or category, and then looked for en interwikis in the Italian articles. That gave me 100+ article names, which was all I needed for the infoboxes - but since most of them didn't have fraz cats and needed a bit of a tidy, I gave the articles a bit of a sort out whilst I was about it. There's been a couple of things like that, apart from improving my saints lookup list to catch maybe 80+% rather than the current 60% (returns diminish quite quickly as you get into the tail) there's not a lot more to do there before I can start throwing CityITs at lots of comuni articles. I don't think it will ever quite be fully automatic, but it'll be a lot quicker than doing it manually.

That should keep me busy for a while.... FlagSteward (talk) 21:12, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd just like to draw people's attention to the current statistics table on the front page. :-))) For future reference, the permanent link is here - 7221 articles all assessed, compared to this one when I started this nearly three months ago, when there were 6580 articles, of which 3325 were unassessed. I did 1300 or so comuni with User:FlagBot, my new assessment bot - please let me know if it's screwed up at all.
Next I'll be tagging all the remaining comuni - I've already synced the main ISTAT list with the comuni cats and comune template usage on it.wiki, and have grabbed the outgoing interwiki links from those 8101 articles; it's already highlighted the odd missing article, like Curti, Italy. After that, I will probably try and tag a load of non-comune articles, and then it'll be putting CityIT infoboxes onto all the comuni. FlagSteward (talk) 01:02, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
All 8101 comuni in the January 2008 ISTAT list now have articles on it.wiki with Comune infoboxes, and you can interwiki from it->en and en->it without going astray like you did before - there were a few articles missing because people had seen blue links from articles on everything from Chicago supermarkets to Latvian goddesses. But I seem to have nailed all of them, as measured by the fact that all 8101 have a City and towns in... category - a few had lost them either through vandalism of the end of the article or just not having a province navbox. It's amazing how much time you can spend fiddling around with that kind of housekeeping, but it needed to be done. 3288 of the comuni were not tagged with the Project banner, but I've now tagged and assessed them - unfortunately one can no longer start up the statistics bot, so it will probably not be visible on the table for another few days. As before, do let me know if my assessment bot has screwed up anywhere. One pleasant surprise was that only 400 or so articles in the untagged ones were missing infoboxes, so that means there's only 1062 infoboxes to add - this is more manageable than I thought, it looks like my CityIT-adding "assistant" can be less fancy than I originally planned as I don't mind being semi-manual for that kind of number. But it would be nice to update the Detroiterbot CityIT's that don't have a map, and have 2001-4 era data. Soemthing for a much later date. I've started working on the saint articles that will be required - 65 saints will take care of over 75% of the patroni on the 1062 articles, 105 saints will take it over 85% (and leave only single-comune saints). The other target is to spend time scraping through various categories to find other articles that should be tagged with the Project banner - there's too many out there at the moment that aren't in the Project that should be, and it's a bit less demanding on my code if I'm adding tags from scratch than modifying existing tags with an assessment. FlagSteward (talk) 01:40, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Need help with photo request

Is there anyone here with a Flickr account who would be willing to ask a Flickr user to remove the "noncommercial" provision from the license on this photo of Alessandra Mussolini, so we can use it on her article? FYI, the same uploader seems to have many other nice photos of Italian public figures. Kelly hi! 00:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Funerary Monument to Sir John Hawkwood

It has been mentioned at that this article could benefit from an "expert" taking a look at it. I'm sure the comments from anyone from this WikiProject would be welcomed. Savidan 01:05, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vittorio Messori

Hi, could someone help with the translation of it:Vittorio Messori? It has been requested for more than a year now. Thanks for any help. --Eleassar my talk 20:03, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

P.S.:I think you should be notified that your project template has been removed from Talk:Italian cultural and historic presence in Dalmatia. --Eleassar my talk 20:03, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Newsletter

Could someone please make a newsletter for this Wikiproject? thanks perseus the awesome 101 (talk) 16:51, 24 May 2008 (UTC) Perseus101

[edit] Draft Guidelines for Lists of companies by country - Feedback Requested

Within WikiProject Companies I am trying to establish guidelines for all Lists of companies by country, the implementation of which would hopefully ensure a minimum quality standard and level of consistency across all of these related but currently disparate articles. The ultimate goal is the improvement of these articles to Featured List status. As a WikiProject that currently has one of these lists within your scope, I would really appreciate your feedback! You can find the draft guidelines here. Thanks for your help as we look to build consensus and improve Wikipedia! - Richc80 (talk) 21:57, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Scope of Project, should we set up taskforces?

As per #Assessment drive update above, I've been scoping out some catgories for bulk tagging with the Project banner. I'm still working my way through them, rejecting any that don't totally "fit" in the project (for instance Category:Italian chefs mostly has Italian-born chefs working overseas) but at the moment it's looking like something like 20,000 articles that could be tagged, including such obscure categories as Category:Italian jazz flautists. ;-/ At the moment the Project has 8,101 comune articles, a few hundred frazioni articles and about 2000 "other" articles. So I guess one question is whether I should do this at all? Personally I think it's a good thing, but I think that eg football articles are better treated using the Italy taskforce of the football Project as effectively a daughter project of this one, in a similar way to eg the Sicily Project. I'd guess at least half the articles are people articles, so perhaps the way forward would be an Italy people taskforce, perhaps under the aegis of WP:WPBIO rather than this project. Thinking about it, I'm tempted to tag quite "widely", with taskforce=culture, sport, history for now, and then we can decide whether to implement them formally at a later date - it's a lot easier to start implementing a categorisation at this stage. But I appreciate that increasing the number of non-comune articles in the Project 10-fold is quite a big step, so I thought I'd canvas some opinions before going ahead with it. FlagSteward (talk) 15:23, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pescara

Hi, I was wondering if there was anyone in the project who could work on the Pescara article? I realize that this project has a lot of other start class articles, but I was hoping there would be someone here who might know about the city or who could translate parts of the Italian article (it's very long and FA class). Thank you! --Eruhildo (talk) 04:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mass witch trials

Hello! I am interested in witch trials, but I have found little about Italian with trials here on wikipedia. Out on the net, there are information about two major witch trials in Italy; in Como in 1524, and in Castelnovo in 1647. The perhaps unreliable sources on the net claims that the number of people burned in the Como trial was 1000. I don't know if this is true. Does anyone here know anything about this? Or do you know a usefull link on english? Regards--Aciram (talk) 17:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spotlight

Spotlight
An article covered by this WikiProject, Michaelangelo, is currently under the Spotlight. If you wish to help, please join the editors in #wikipedia-spotlight on the freenode IRC network where the project is coordinated. (See the IRC tutorial for help with IRC)

...... Dendodge .. TalkHelp 11:43, 11 June 2008 (UTC)