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[edit] Mass-creation of locality articles

As some of the older Wikipedians here may recall, there used to be a bot which auto-created stubs for US location article (I think also with a locator map!) - that's how there are thousands of them. It seems that recently, a bot was created and is being tested to do the same for many other countries, including Israel. For those wondering, this is why the user Blofeld of SPECTRE re-categorized all cities into Cities, towns and villages in Israel (I oppose this, but that's not the point of this post - read on).

As you can guess, there will be certain obvious problems with this bot, even though its work will help overall, and the intention is clearly good. The most glaring problem is article naming - it will certainly create articles with ridiculous transliterations, some articles about neighborhoods which it will assume are villages, and many problems inherent in bots. Here is the source for its data, by the way.

While I won't act to stop this bot unless there's a sizable majority in favor (not just on this WikiProject), I suggestion a course of action which should minimize its harmful effects. Namely, that in the following weeks we collaborate on creating as many Israeli locality articles as possible. Of course, quality shouldn't be substituted for quantity (in that case we'd be as bad as the bot). If we even create 100 articles, compared to the 1,100 that the bot aims to create, I'll consider it a great achievement (and believe we all should).

So, if you want to create an Israel-related article soon - I ask to please consider creating one about a location as opposed to other topics, which can wait (for now). Thanks, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 18:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Two basic sources which should be included in each article for localities with 1,000+ residents (IMO) are this and this (click on locality). Additionally, if someone wants pages from the Ariel Encyclopedia to work on certain articles, I'll gladly provide them (in private). Thanks again, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 18:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

There are semi-automatically created lists of articles about Israeli localities in the Hebrew Wikipedia, which don't have an article in other Wikipedias. If you speak Hebrew and want to participate in this project, consider using these lists:

• he:ויקיפדיה:דפים ללא בינוויקי/יישובים בישראל
• he:ויקיפדיה:דפים ללא בינוויקי/יישובים ברשות הפלסטינית
• he:ויקיפדיה:דפים ללא בינוויקי/יישובים דרוזיים בישראל
• he:ויקיפדיה:דפים ללא בינוויקי/יישובים ערביים בישראל

(These lists are not supposed to be encyclopedic categories. For more info on how they were created see Wikipedia:WikiProject Interlanguage Links/Ideas from the Hebrew Wikipedia.) --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 18:57, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm wondering if, with how bad some of those transliterations are (e.g. Qiryat HaTekhniyyon), that the bot might actually create copies of articles we already have because it doesn't realise that they exist under the proper spelling. This could be a major issue if it's going to duplicate hundreds of articles. пﮟოьεԻ 57 22:10, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Comment: I don't like the changes user:Blofeld of SPECTRE made to the categorization. As for the blitz in creating articles which some may not work anyways with the transliteration, what exactly is this bot culling? I'd help but I'd imagine it would be much help. Epson291 (talk) 04:42, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I think Number 57 may be right. Maybe it's best to let the bot finish its surge, and then delete copies, rename the new ones according to the MOS, and work it from there. -- Nudve (talk) 13:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Any news from this front? When is the bot supposed to make its move? -- Nudve (talk) 13:09, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

It appears that it did a 100-article test run, but there's no indication as to when it will really start. I'll ask User:Fritzpoll about it. So far I've created a few articles on Israeli towns and Number 57 has contributed some as well. I strongly urge everyone else to start creating these articles with (it's not really that hard, and if you only write a couple lines with proper structure, I'll gladly expand it). -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 15:14, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm still not sure I understand exactly why it's so important to create an article before the bot does it. -- Nudve (talk) 15:43, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

It would appear that there will be a chance to check and correct names before the bot is run. See this main page, and I would suggest adding Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/Places/israel to your watchlist for when/if it is created. This will allow us to go through and correct the spellings or create redirects to articles at alternative transliterations. пﮟოьεԻ 57 22:00, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, in case someone hasn't noticed the ad, there's a discussion going on about the bot at the village pump, here -- Nudve (talk) 04:22, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Number 57: I contacted Fritzpoll, and that's pretty much what he said. Before creating the actual articles, he will post the list here, so that we can correct and improve it. That's good to hear, although it won't solve all problems. By the way, I wanted to talk to you about something on IM, if you have time.

Nudve: First of all, thanks for the link. I didn't know about this discussion, and will enter my vote soon. As for why creating articles is needed, there are a few reasons. The way I see it, the bot isn't very smart (obviously), so it will certainly make mistakes, and I am hoping to avoid situations where it repeats the same mistake for 1,100 articles. Fritzpoll clearly stated that the bot can be tweaked for each country, therefore if we create for example articles on all local councils and cities, we can seriously limit the bot's scope, so that it will be more focused and therefore more accurate/human-like. But in general, it's just best if we can reduce the bot's 'list' as much as possible, in order to have more human-created articles. Not sure how you imagine the bot will work, but I'm almost sure that it will be just as hard fixing its quirks as creating the articles from scratch (you can create a template in notepad for creatings articles anyway, similar to a bot).

As I said before, I think the bot will be damaging, but on the other hand some articles on Israeli localities won't be manually created for years to come, so I guess the bot's work is acceptable - let's just reduce the damage by creating as many articles as we can. I really wish I had more time to work on this stuff.

-- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 17:50, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I see your point. According to the latest proposal, the bot will contact the relevant WikiProjects before starting to work on a country. Would you suggest working according to the lists provided by Amir E. Aharoni above? -- Nudve (talk) 18:23, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, now that I look at it, the Hebrew category for Israeli settlements without inerwiki isn't very up to date. Many of them actually have interwiki (although not necessarily in English. I've found one with an article in Polish). -- Nudve (talk) 18:35, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

The list that Amir Aharoni provided is a good start, but personally I don't need a list, and have stopped basing any settlement info on the Hebrew Wikipedia anyway, which is often inaccurate. Also, we have so far created templates for most, if not all, districts and regional councils, therefore you can just follow the red links one by one :) Of course someone should also contact the guys at the HeWiki project and inform them of the many new articles created in English, Polish, Romanian, etc. (the most common ones). -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 20:32, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

By the way, now that we agreed on the course of action regarding the bot, do you think we should start reverting Blofeld's categorization of everything into 'cities, towns and village in Israel'? -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 20:37, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

On the face of it, that does seem like a good idea, although maybe we should ask Fritzpoll all the same.

By the way: Is there a reason why Template:Infobox Kibbutz and Template:Infobox moshav don't have a picture (and caption) slot? It seems like there are plenty free images of kibbutzim and moshavim available (or at least obtainable). -- Nudve (talk) 13:46, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Not sure about a picture, but I think a map might be nice (like he:נבטים (מושב)). Also, I have redirected {{Infobox moshav}} to {{Infobox Kibbutz}} as it is exactly the same template bar its name, and I have been using the kibbutz one for moshavim for a while. If anyone thinks this is stupid, perhaps we can rename it (though there remains the issue of the fill in line which demands "kibbutz_name"). пﮟოьεԻ 57 14:26, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

The Hebrew infobox has both a picture and a map. The thing about the map is that it's very big, which often makes the infobox far longer than the text prose. Not a real problem, but it makes the article look even stubbier than it is. -- Nudve (talk) 14:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

The problem is the bloody awkward shape of the country - why couldn't it be long on its east-west axis ;) пﮟოьεԻ 57 19:15, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, well...:) -- Nudve (talk) 19:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Blofeld's change

Started section in order to avoid confusion with the already long previous one; in reply to Nudve: As I see it, because Fritzpoll's bot will be tweaked for each country, and it's not expected to create any cities/local councils anyway because those will be removed from the list and hand-made (we have less than 5 left, I think, don't need a bot for that). Considering that Blofeld only re-categorized cities as far as I can tell, it shouldn't be a problem to revert. On a side note, I lament the keeping of 'coastal cities in Israel' category. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 19:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I suppose you can revert, then. -- Nudve (talk) 06:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deir Al-Zahrani massacre

The so called "article" is a total nonsence, full of propaganda and copyright violation. The article was first written on Persian wikipedia by the same user, but later it was deleted bcause of Wikipedia:Notability guidelines. The user now just wrote the article in English wikipedia and then just re-wrote the article again in Persian wikipedia, claiming it is a "masacre" where can't even find his source on the net which claims to be Human Rights watch!

I would appreciate if some of you would follow on this. --Kaaveh (talk) 17:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Liga Leumit 1966-68

I thought this article might make an interesting Did you know? snippet (as according to the Hebrew wiki, it was played over two years due to corruption and increasing violance during matches (I had assumed it was because the war interrupted the season, but anyway...)). However, I can't seem to find any information out about it beyond the league table and top scorer. Can anyone find any sources (probably in Hebrew) to expand it beyond the 1,500 character minimum? Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 57 00:53, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

The best source I've found so far is this Bnei Yehuda site[1] which claims to cite a book on the subject. Can it be considered an RS? -- Nudve (talk) 06:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't see why not - official websites of football clubs are often cited in articles. Could anyone translate the important stuff across - I'm not to good on long passages of writing. Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 57 10:51, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I pretty much added the main info. It's not that clear without context. For example, who were he "relegated players". Also, the article might need to be copyedited. -- Nudve (talk) 12:04, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I've copyedited it. I assume the relegated players are those playing for the two clubs who were relegated the previous season, but I'm not going to add this to the article unless someone can confirm. Thanks for the help. пﮟოьεԻ 57 23:29, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ancient Pre-history of "Biblical" Warfare

Is the subject discussed in this web page sufficient for inclusion in the Israel portal?? I am new and completely inexperienced in this area--- http://www.imninalu.net/Habiru.htm MirandaAnique71.186.11.85 (talk) 02:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the best place to discuss warfare is Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history. -- Nudve (talk) 13:50, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Yishuv haYashan?

Could someone that knows more about the area / religious issues have a look at the new Category:Yishuv haYashan and see if that seems OK/relevant as a classification for the cities its got in it (one of the articles that's now in it was on my watchlist because of something else, and I wasn't quite sure)? -Hunting dog (talk) 16:36, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Status Quo Letter

Asides from not citing any sources, couldn't it be merged into Religion in Israel? -- Nudve (talk) 11:01, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm ambivalent on this issue. On the other hand, the subject's notability seems dubious, and the article doesn't cite sources, but on the other hand, this letter affects Israeli society so much even today, that its notability is guaranteed compared to many other Israel-related subjects on Wikipedia, which are practically not known and don't affect anyone. Maybe there should be a fork of Religion in Israel dealing with the secular-religious relationship. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 08:22, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

The Religion in Israel article has a section on the status quo. -- Nudve (talk) 09:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I saw that. Still, I believe that an article on secular-religious relations can be created. The letter itself might not be notable enough, but the relations in general are. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 09:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I've suggested a merge. If there's no response in a couple of days (or a drastic improvement to the article), I think I'll propose deletion. -- Nudve (talk) 09:41, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

A merge + redirect is fine for the time being, I think. Although I'm personally against AfDs most of the time, so it's just my opinion of course. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 09:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] You Don't Mess with the Zohan

I added a "Cultural context" section to the article for this Adam Sandler film, which just came out in the United States. I took the information from a review by John Podhoretz but editors in this project might find it interesting to look at, add to or even dispute. The movie is said to have many Israeli cultural references, and perhaps editors here have seen good sources that I haven't. Noroton (talk) 20:11, 13 June 2008 (UTC)