Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian places/Archive 4

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Regions - NSW

After starting to edit the City of Dubbo I became interested in the regions of NSW articles in particular after reading on page 7 of the 2004-2005 Annual report that...

Dubbo is the only city located in the Orana Region, having developed over time as a major service centre and is situated at the meeting point of the Newell, Mitchell and Golden Highways.

I think that we should agree to the boundaries of regions for each state, and use some government source just like we do with LGA's. Grahamec and I had a very short exchage on this at our talk pages - see User talk:SauliH#Regions in NSW, in which a more arbitrary naming convention was preferred. For NSW the government body for 'regions' would be the [Department of State and Regional Development] I should think. They lists the following regions.

  • Australian Capital Region
  • Central Coast
  • Central West
  • Greater Western Sydney
  • Far West
  • The Hunter
  • Illawarra
  • Mid North Coast
  • Murray
  • New England - North West
  • Northern Rivers
  • Orana
  • Riverina
  • Sydney

Secondly the Department of Local Government show a very similar set of regions using similar defined boundaries.

  • Central West
  • Mid North Coast
  • North Western (the Orana region)
  • Far West
  • Murray
  • Richmond Tweed (a smaller version of Northern Rivers)
  • The Hunter
  • Murrumbidgee (the Riverina)
  • South Eastern (includes the (as Grahamec put it) 'horrible' Australian Capital Region)
  • Illawarra
  • Northern (the New England - North West region)

I think I lost a few of the distinctions in there, but I feel we can work with these as guidelines for naming, and boundaries when we create regional level articles. I wanted to put this up so we could tease this out, and maybe create some stability as the LGA articles develop.

Also the Category:Regions of New South Wales needs a lot of sorting out and cleaning up.SauliH 16:06, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

There does not appear to be any generally accepted list of NSW regions. Both of the lists used above are drawn up by bureaucrats for the benefit of the State Government and LGAs. I particularly don't like Orana (only used by Governments), Australian Capital Region (a tourist-promoters name, which substitutes for the traditional and perfectly acceptable Southern Tablelands and the Murray (which real people consider part of the Riverina). These names don't fit names used by geographers either.
In principle I prefer the Bureau of Meteorology's NSW regions map, although it seems that most people prefer New England to Northern Tablelands (and New England includes the low-lying Tamworth Regional Council). I also consider that it reasonable to combine BoM's forecast areas of Upper Western and Lower Western as Far West, which in any event correspond to the legal definition of the Western Division established under the New South Wales Western Lands Act 1901.
In addition, there are other popular definitions. Monaro is generally applied to the Southern Tablelands, south of Canberra, and I don't object to it. The Southern Highlands is properly applied only to Wingecarribee Shire Council and is not really necessary. Shoalhaven doesn't even apply to the southern parts of the City of Shoalhaven (these currently redirect to same place) and the residents of Shoalhaven and the Illawarra also accept the term South Coast. I don't think Shoalhaven is useful, but Illawarra on balance probably is.
The BoM definitions imply a division of the Central West into Central Tablelands and Central West Slopes and Plains, which would be reasonable.
Using a modified version of the BoM regions also raises the question as whether they should be modified to include whole LGAs: eg it splits Walgett Shire Council into three regions.--Grahamec 07:26, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Looking at the definition of region by Geographical Names Board of NSW we find...

A region is a relatively large tract of land distinguished by certain common characteristics, natural or cultural. Natural unifying features could include same drainage basin., similar landforms, or climatic conditions, a special flora or fauna, or the like. Cultural determining features could include boundaries proclaimed for administrative purposes, common land use patterns etc.

It would appear that what we are discussing is the differences between cultural and natural. Orana is a cultural name, which is being used by the councils (see Dubbo annual report. I have seen it on other LGA sites.SauliH 14:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Councils like to join together in sufficent numbers to lobby State and Federal Governments (and to attend conferences with), and are quite happy to support any name for a grouping that is allocated. This is not quite the same as constituting a "cultural" region. These names get changed at the whim of governments (besides they are things of the NSW Dept of Local Govt, and can be told what to accept). I appreciate that for Wikipedia to impose its own name scheme is close to original research, but I'm uncomfortable with names that the general public are unaware of. I am sure my grandfather who was brought up in Dubbo would have been appalled to know that he lived in Orana, as I am to find that I live in the Australian Capital Region.--Grahamec 00:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
The problem I see in using the NSW BoM regions map is that it will be difficult to write a definitive article beyond the climate, and physical attributes. With the LGA based districts, you have stats (Orana is merged with the far north west region), and Organisations, (and Organisation 2). Furthermore it is these regions that are the basis of the Regional Organisation of Councils (ROCs).
Oh, and the Australian Capital region? Check out this page :)SauliH 04:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I wrote articles on the various regions of Western Australia ages ago. Initially the exercise was extremely confusing, and I thought, as stated above, that "there does not appear to be any generally accepted list". In hindsight, the confusion was caused by the fact that there are too many lists, due to laxity in language in referring to the various regionalisations of Australia (boy do I wish someone would write that article). People will use the word "regions" to mean electoral districts, statistical divisions, ecoregions, floristic provinces, meteorological subdivisions, heaven knows what else. Nonetheless, I did, eventually, manage to track down the legislation that defined just what they were. I highly recommend not undertaking the project until you have a well-defined regionalisation to work to. It will be a dog's breakfast if multiple regionalisations get mushed up together. Hesperian 05:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Well tonight I started an article Geographic Divisions of New South Wales. Maybe not the perfect name, but for now it will do. Please add to it as we see fit, I intend to keep going and create a more extensive outlining of the various 'regionalisations' as Hesperian put it. I think doing this on a state by state basis will be better than Australia-wide.SauliH 08:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
WA's a good example of how it should work, but in our case the names of the regions aren't exceptionally weird, although the boundaries are contestable. If you say any of the names to any Western Australian, they'll know where you mean - all the names are well established. The official guideline for WA regions is on the Local Government & Regional Development website. The WA tourist agency has a very confusing one that's imprecise and absolutely terrible, and the business promotion people are even worse. One other oddity is WA's changed - the Mid West used to relate solely to the southern part of that region with the northern part called the "Murchison" region. Orderinchaos (t|c) 14:38, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Do they equate to the Statistical Divisions shown on the first page of this ABS pdf file? I am leaning towards seeing these used as the guideline for regions. They have been established for many years. They are studied statistically, and they will be stable for many years to come... judging by the SD definition. AND we can cite a source that is in the business of 'regions'.SauliH 16:22, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Is there a NSW equivalent to the ABS pdf file you quote above? I can't find one. The ABS Statistical Regions are quite good for regional NSW, although I think Northern Rivers is a better name than Richmond-Tweed and Riverina is better than Murray-Murrumbidgee and mean the same thing. I presume Northern is the same as New England or Northern Tablelands (and either of these terms may be preferable). It lumps Southern Tablelands with South Coast, which are rather separated by the escarpment and have different climates, and hence is debatable. Also I would retain the split between North Western and Far West, used for Statistical Divisions.--Grahamec 02:53, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
All the links to the estate maps start from this page. It has been the best outlining of regions I have found as I have searched online. Out of the ABS regions types the Statiscal Division lines up closest in my mind to the areas we are discussing here.SauliH 04:43, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I could live with the ABS regions (but I prefer the name Northern Rivers to Richmond-Tweed and I don't particularly see the need for separate Murray and Murrumbidgee regions).--Grahamec 07:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
No, these are statistical regions used internally by the ABS. The Wheatbelt is quite well understood, but if you said "the Midlands" to somebody they'd think you meant the suburb of Midland, 15 km northeast of Perth. This also introduces an unnecessary conflict between Wheatbelt and Great Southern, who nobody (except DLGRD) can ever agree on where the boundary is anyway - does Katanning have more in common with Albany, a port town, than with Narrogin, a wheat and sheep town and agricultural centre? If there was a logic to the differentiation, I'd agree with it. Orderinchaos 23:21, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Articles names about a city centre

After the above debate, it appears Melbourne city centre was the preferred name. Well, might as well make them all the same - I take it that <City> city centre is the preferred name for articles that are about the central region of a city that is equivalent to a suburb? I guess it would be appropriate for any city which has suburbs. Not that I want to make this into a vote, but...

  • Support -- Chuq 09:14, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
  • support as long as there is not an established official name for the area which can be sourced. I would at least start the article there. If an article exists - be wary - or will have @%#^fight! SauliH 15:33, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Note: Added the word central above, for clarification. -- Chuq 23:52, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I would have thought the article should be at Melbourne CBD Gnangarra 00:05, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

You obviously missed the long debate held here. Melbourne CBD was ruled out.SauliH 00:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Penrose, New South Wales

I recently created a stub for Penrose, New South Wales in Wingecarribee Shire Council, which is an old established (but small) rail town. But there is a new suburb of Wollongong, New South Wales, which may well be bigger by now. Should it be Penrose (Wingecarribee), New South Wales or should the other one be Penrose (Illawarra), New South Wales?--Grahamec 07:47, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

WP:LOCAL

This is in interesting proposed guideline as it's still being discussed I thought I'd draw it to the attention of editors here Gnangarra 05:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

LGAs

Hi Wikipedians, a discussion has been started at Wikipedia:Australian_Wikipedians'_notice_board#LGAs about Local Government Areas, your contribution would be appreciated. Thanks, WikiTownsvillian 08:11, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

So that the discussion is keept in one place and given the comment at WP:AWNB, could I suggest that responses be posted here rather than on the Townsville page.
To repeat my note at WP:AWNB, and to clarify the issue as I see it... I think the original question was whether ther should be separate articles for the council that governs a municipaliy, and the geographical area which falls within that municipality.
I think the question of "City of XYZ" vs "XYZ City Council" is largely solved by the official name of the LGA concerned, although this can add to confusion where "XYZ City Council" can also imply 'the council which governs XYZ". In either case, I think that all aspects of an LGA can be covered in one article unless there is sufficient information about the council, its history, politics, personalities etc to warrant a separate article. ... just my thoughts to get the ball rolling. Cheers. -- Adz|talk 12:34, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Firstly every LGA should have its own article. The LGA is a distinct entity from the urban locality, and often do not share boundaries etc. Even in cases such as Roma, Queensland and Roma Town Council; and Dalby, Queensland and Dalby Town Council the town may leak over the LGA boundary. The LGA also has a specific role worth noting. Secondly, unless the LGA article is quite large I do not see there is much point in separate articles. An LGA exists only as an administrative area that is provided with a Local Government service by its Council and one does not (normally) exist without the other. LGAs have no constitutional status and exist at the whim of State governments. Thirdly, and not to digress too much (I hope) should LGA articles be maintained by Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian places, Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian politics or both? -Mattinbgn 13:11, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
This previous discussion may be relevant. JPD (talk) 19:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Indeed. To re-iterate the general conclusions of that discussion, it was agreed that all LGAs should have separate articles, that these articles would be located at the LGA's official name, and that they should cover all matters related to the LGA, including its governance. Should an LGA article be unable to fully accomodate information regarding its council, then the council may be spun off into into its own article, per the summary style.
Mattinbgn, there is an overlap between WP:AUSPLACES and WP:AUSPOL with regards to LGA articles, but most discussion about them has taken place here thus far, so it is probably convenient to continue that trend unless the topic is obviously more pertinent to WP:AUSPOL.--cj | talk 00:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I think there would be objection (although not from me) in this case to moving City of Thuringowa to Thuringowa City Council which is the official title of the Council. It would lead back to the problems we have been having with people who wish to define the distinctiveness of being Thuringowan as opposed to Townsvillian and focus for this has always been on the Townsville, Queensland article. See discussion at Talk:Townsville,_Queensland#Arbitrary_section_break. Thanks, WikiTownsvillian 01:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Thuringowa City Council is not the official name of the local government area. It is the governing body of the local government area which is known as either the City of Thuringowa or Thuringowa City.--cj | talk 15:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 20:07, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Local Government Area - Disambigulation page

The Local Government Area page is now a disambigulation page. There are well over 500 articles, the vast majority Australian places, that link to this page. Is there a simple and quick way to edit these links to point to the new Local Government Areas in Australia article?--Mattinbgn 21:52, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Request for comment

Firstly: I hate it when my proxy stuffs up and I lose an edit! (end rant) I bought up an issue at Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian history and it was suggested I mention it here. I am after some comment on how much of the shared aboriginal history to mention on each of the suburb articles for the suburbs of City of Blacktown. I would appreciate it if you could go past this talk page and provide your opinion. I'm not watching this space but I will follow that one... Garrie 03:24, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Palm Island, Queensland

Hi Wikipedians, as you might already know Palm Island has become the most recent Australian Collaboration of the Fortnight, however due to lack of votes for other articles I think it was voted in a little prematurely with only 3 people having supported it to that point. Anyway I'd like to put out a general request to members of WikiProject Australian places to help out if you can with this topic which is in much need of a better quality article considering the national attention it always gets. Besides being a historical and political hotspot it is also an extremely Beautiful/scenic and unique island. WikiTownsvillian 08:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Riverina

{{Gazetteer of Australia}}

I've just created this template to help with the myriad references and external links to the online gazetteer. Please use it lots. It would be great if any of you want to help me templatise the 160 current links to the gazetteer. And of course you guys need no invitation to improve the template. Hesperian 05:33, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Category for deletion and / or also merging : Category:Double-named places

Over twenty Australian towns have double names, for example Beggan Beggan or Grong Grong. A category that includes these towns, Category:Double-named places in Australia is up for deletion at Categories for discussion and / or merger in the related discussion above which also suggests renaming.--Golden Wattle talk 20:29, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Same town - Billinudgel/Billnudgel???

Billinudgel, New South Wales Billnudgel, New South Wales Are these the same town? SauliH 23:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

  • They sure are - I have transferred the different data from Billnudgel, New South Wales (incorrectly spelt) to Billinudgel, New South Wales - I tried to move and merge but we need an admin to help please? --VS talk 00:30, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
    • I presume that Billnudgel, New South Wales can be speedily deleted without pointless discussion.--Grahamec 05:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Better to redirect from a possible spelling error--Golden Wattle talk 06:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
        • Did just that just now. Redirect may come in use at some point. But go ahead and delete if you feel you must.SauliH 06:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Moe, Victoria

A discussion is taking place at Talk:Moe, Victoria about what is a "city" as opposed to a "town". Any thoughts from others would be welcome.--Mattinbgn/ talk 08:15, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Road District Boards

Can someone give me a hand with Road District Boards? Couldn't find any mention of them in the archives. My property, until late last year at least, was referred to as Sussex Location ####. This refers to the historic Sussex Road District located in the Busselton. There appears to be little in the way of what a Road District is on the net [1][2] however there is information on the former areas called road districts [3]. They appear to have been used in Victoria, Queensland and WA (phasing out in 1961). Now I'm not sure if Busselton was the last shire to remove all references to road districts (Sussex in their case) but they may still be currently used in other places. - Ctbolt 02:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

There is some history of Victorian Road Boards here Haven't yet found the equivalent WA history - but perhaps it is a line of research. Regards--Golden Wattle talk 05:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Golden Wattle, I'll keep a lookout while in the library. - Ctbolt 11:21, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Redesford, Victoria

I have had a bit of a look on google but I can't see any evidence this town exists. Does anyone know it?--Mattinbgn/ talk 07:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Not a single hit on http://www.ga.gov.au 's place name search. I've tagged the article with {{hoax}}. -- Chuq 08:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I have looked through all five of my search for a Victorian location websites - not one hit. Should be marked for speedy deletion I suggest.--VS talk 08:56, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Geelong translation to Japanese

The Geelong article has been requested to be translated on the Japanese Wikipedia. [4] If anyone has good skills in Japanese and would like to help out, please feel welcome! --Candy-Panda 05:11, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Lancaster, Victoria

I did some work on Lancaster, Victoria after someone tagged the article for speedy deletion, but the article is still just a stub. Someone else might be able to expand the article. --Eastmain 13:12, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

New South Wales town stubs

I note that Djautumn81 (talk · contribs) has created a great number of stubs for tiny NSW localities. I'm not sure this should be encouraged.--Grahamec 02:46, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I saw that as well. I am not generally a fan of one line stubs, even for localities. If you can't create an article with at least minimal content such as Mayrung, New South Wales or Lancaster, Victoria, you should probably hold off. I have tagged their talk pages for this project, but otherwise left them alone. I am not against any of these places, no matter how small, having an article in Wikipedia, just that the article should have some content over and above its location and existence. Rather than creating one line stub articles, perhaps the articles should have been listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/To-do/Localities. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 04:59, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

2006 Census data

I note that the 2006 Census QuickStats data will be released on 27 June 2007. I have linked a lot of articles to the 2001 Census QuickStats data and wonder if anyone knows what will happen to this data after the release. Obviously, they will all need to be updated with the new figures sooner or later, but if the links will become dead I may need to get through the update a lot sooner. Any ideas? -- Mattinbgn/ talk 06:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I think we'll just have to cross that bridge when we get to it. Hopefully they'll keep it up, but even if they don't, if we get a few people together, we should be able to get through it within a couple of weeks. I'm on break at the moment, so I'm happy to dedicate as much as time as necessary if needed. Rebecca 10:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the offer. I guess we wait and see what is on the ABS site tomorrow! Cheers, Mattinbgn/ talk 01:19, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Boyne Valley, Australia

I found this article today and would like others thoughts on the naming convention. The name is used for the area surrounding four small very small towns and as a general term for the community there. Boyne Valley redirects to the Irish version -Brú na Bóinne, a world heritage site so some form of disambiguation is needed. Should it be Boyne Valley, Australia; Boyne Valley, Queensland; Boyne Valley or Boyne Valley (Queensland)?

As an aside this may be complicated by the fact that there are two Boyne Rivers in Queensland, not all that far from each other. One starts near Many Peaks and meets the Pacific Ocean at Boyne Island, a virtual suburb of Gladstone. The other Boyne River starts near Kingaroy, and flows generally north to meet the Burnett River at Mundubbera. The Burnett then meets the ocean at Burnett Heads, a virtual suburb of Bundaberg. Therefore, Boyne River (Queensland) or even Boyne River (Central Queensland) does not resolve ambiguity. Of course neither river has an article at this stage. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 07:26, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Local Government Areas of Queensland

Following the release of the Report of the Local Government Reform Commission, what are others thoughts on how to progress from here. As Premier Beattie has suggested he will adopt the report recommendations in full and has control of Parliament it is virtually certain the amalgamations will take place. Should there be mention of the future of the LGAs in the relevant articles or would that breach WP:CRYSTAL? Would articles on the future LGAs such as North Burnett Regional Council be appropriate at this stage? -- Mattinbgn/ talk 08:07, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

While the boundaries will be adopted the Premier has stated that they may change the names of the future LGAs. WikiTownsvillian 08:09, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
While you are right, the recommendation in the report regarding names is as follows:

"Where two or more councils have been amalgamated and these councils share concerns regarding the name adopted by the Commission, that the State Government accept a unanimous submission from the councils which form the new entity for a different name. Any such submission must be with the State Government for consideration prior to the passage of any enabling legislation that gives effect to the recommendations of the Commission."

I doubt this will be all that common and if it does happen the articles can be renamed. There may also be variations from the report recommendations with regards to the election of Councillors with LGAs either divided into wards or undivided. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 08:34, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
I think it would be good to get articles on them. There's likely to be some interest, and it isn't as if there's much chance of the changes not happening. Rebecca 08:41, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Draft article here - User:Mattinbgn/Sandbox/North Burnett Regional Council. I don't think this is too much crystalballery. If there is no major objections I will stick this up in article space later this evening and see how it goes. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 09:20, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Saint Andrews, Victoria

Shouldn't this article (and Saint Arnaud, Victoria for that matter) be renamed to St Andrews, Victoria and St Arnaud, Victoria. I know that we use names such as Mount Beauty, Victoria rather than Mt Beauty, but I can't ever recall seeing Saint Arnuad in print. Is there any convention on towns named after saints? -- Mattinbgn/ talk 08:28, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

According to this all such place names in Victoria officially have the full "Saint" prefix but I have never seen it used in practice for any of these, and it certainly looks odd. --Melburnian 09:36, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Interesting how Victoria is out of step with the other states. I note the ABS uses St rather than Saint for Victorian towns - [5] -- Mattinbgn/ talk 10:04, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, and we already have:

I think the principle behind Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) comes in to play here and that the two that you mentioned should be moved to the commonly used names of St Andrews, Victoria and St Arnaud, Victoria, which will also make them consistent with the above. --Melburnian 10:44, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Common sense should apply even the shire uses St Arnaud on its web site is good indication that most people will be looking for it under that name. Though I suggest that Saint XXX become redirect pages just in case. Gnangarra 10:58, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Moved St Arnaud but an administrator needs to move Saint Andrews, Victoria. -- Mattinbgn/ talk 11:15, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Done --Melburnian 12:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I created an article on Kallakoopah Creek

Please improve it. Thanks. AppleJuggler 10:56, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Townsville suburbs

I don't think that is an "established protocol in naming suburbs" (as claimed by User:ROxBo in edit summaries) that supports the naming of Pimlico, Townsville, Pallarenda, Townsville, Anderson Park, Townsville, North Ward, Townsville etc. The situation is no different from the naming of Sydney or Melbourne suburbs. I think these should be moved to [[x, Queensland]] format.Grahamec 02:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I've moved the lot of them to x,Queensland. -- Longhair\talk 02:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Agree 100%. These should be moved. The name of the city should only be used if there is a need to disambiguate such as West End, Queensland and West End, Queensland (Townsville). Is Anderson Park actually a suburb or a park? If it is a park it should be called Anderson Park (Townsville). -- Mattinbgn\ talk 02:14, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Fixed Anderson Park. Well spotted. -- Longhair\talk 02:17, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
OK, I'm easy to go along with this, but I think your example of West End is effective - in showing that West End, Brisbane and West End, Townsville would be clearer and easier to search for than West End, Queensland (Townsville), which seems rather convoluted and inelegant. But whatever. ROxBo 03:23, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I've restored the old history for the suburb articles. I can't work out where which article is for Anderson Park, there seem to have been several forks of the history, and a bunch of double redirects. I think it should be Anderson Park (Townsville), but I'm not certain. Basically, ", state" should be used for towns and suburbs that are postal addresses, " (city)" should be used for notable parks, gardens, buildings, housing estates etc. that are not used as postal addresses. West End, Queensland really is ambiguous without a postcode. --Scott Davis Talk 09:35, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Southern or Indian Ocean

There seems to have been a flurry of editing overnight to move the south coast of Australia from the Southern Ocean to the Indian Ocean in a number of articles, as some other country says the Southern Ocean is only further south. I have to go to work now, so can't participate in a discussion till later, but though it worth noting now. See articles like Murray River for example. --Scott Davis Talk 23:11, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Project statistics

The statistics on the project page show that none of the articles have been rated for importance for the project. I would suggest that the vast majority of Australian places articles would be rated at the same importance for this sub-project as they would be for WP:AUSTRALIA as a whole. Would it therefore be possible to somehow use the WP:AUSTRALIA importance rating for this project. I don't know what the best way to do this is; a bot that copied the ratings over on each article talk page; or writing the code that creates the statistics for this project to look for the WP:AUSTRALIA rating. Others thoughts? -- Mattinbgn\ talk 03:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

ACAT

Why does WP:ACAT redirect here? Hesperian 02:56, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't know for sure but at a guess - Australian Cities and Towns. -- Mattinbgn\talk 02:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Yep, thats what it was - see here. -- Mattinbgn\talk 03:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Is every Australian place with a gazetted name automatically notable enough to warrant an article?

Is every Australian place with a gazetted name automatically notable enough to warrant an article? I would say yes, partly because I think gazettal confers notability, and partly for the pragmatic reason that google maps is now scraping the geotagging out of our articles and using it to populate their map layers; we want every gazetted Australia place to show up there, with a link back here, and the only way to achieve that is to create articles on every single Australian place. Plus I suppose sooner or later Wikimedia may have its own mapping project up and running.

To seed this discussion, I shall sacrifice my recent article The Big Breaker, which is about a small piece of reef over which waves break — surely one of the least notable Australian places imaginable. Does this article have a place on Wikipedia? I think so, but I shall bow to a dissenting consensus.

Hesperian 12:16, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure how many people watch this page (you might get better feedback at the noticeboard) however for my money I agree that gazetting confers notability. Personally, I would still wait until there was sufficient sources to write at least four of five sentences, but now that it is written I would support keeping it. Of course, if more sources existed the article would satisfy WP:N and wouldn't need automatic notability.
There has been plenty of places in the Riverina such as Womboota with little in the way of notability that I felt sure would be nominated but they have survived unmolested to this date. Admittedly yours is the extreme case but the place exists, it has an official name, it can be located and possibly some further sources may be found in the future. -- Mattinbgn\talk 12:39, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Second oldest city?

Is Hobart the second oldest city in Australia as claimed in the article? Or is it Newcastle as also comes up in a Google search? Is Launceston the third oldest as claimed in the article? I can't find any references.. Should we abandon these claims? Barrylb (talk) 11:40, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Barry. You might get a better response at Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board where more than a few editors have an interest in Australian history. I think the claims are certainly verifiable and the crew at AWNB should be able to point you in the right direction. Cheers, Mattinbgn\talk 11:50, 14 December 2007 (UTC)