Talk:Territories of the United States

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Decumanus, again thanks for clarifying this and organized territory. I think I "get" incorporated now. It means the territory has become a permanent part of the U.S. So, for example, Palmyra Atoll will always be a part of the country, though there is an almost nil possibility of it becoming a state. On the other hand, Puerto Rico being unincorporated could separate itself from the U.S. Excellent work. Bkonrad | Talk 20:22, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

While looking at the Panama Canal Zone, I saw a link to a publication by the Office of Insular Affairs [1]. It mentions a Supreme Court Case in 1901 about the status of overseas territory (I think it concerned Hawaii). Not sure how (or even if it needs) to fit into this article right now. Just didn't want to lose the reference. Bkonrad | Talk 02:53, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] redirects are confusing in this case

Just reading about this and have to admit that the redirect makes things confusing as to what you're reading.

Incorporated territory From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. (Redirected from Unincorporated territory)

Rewording the opening paragraph to make the differences more clear would be helpful if you're using the same page for 2 different things.

Hmmm, well right now the second sentence begins In contrast, an unincorporated territory -- what more would you like to call attention to this -- perhaps flashing as well as bold? (BTW, that was sarcasm, not a serious proposal.) older ≠ wiser 02:16, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

yes but since i'm already expecting to be reading about an Unincorporated territory i'm confused from the start.

I'm wondering why Organic Act is redirected to this page; also, there is a link in the article to Organic Act which leads back to the same page.Konamaiki 03:45, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merger proposed

The lists in this article go far beyond incorporated territories. There is a large amount of overlap with other small articles, but not really any single place where you can have the whole picture of insular areas explained. I think the various terminology should be explained in one article, with accompanying lists. Why not make that Insular area? -- Beland 02:40, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Incorporated and unincorporated territories in modern times are all insular areas, but it was not the case. Some incorporated territories obtained statehood, and they are not insular areas. — Instantnood 07:56, September 9, 2005 (UTC)
I think merger would be a really bad idea and there seems to be no consensus to merge, so I'm removing the note — OwenBlacker 00:03, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
The merge note is here again, don't know if someone's replaced it and not discussed it. I've removed it. Iancaddy 11:45, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edited the first paragraph

After getting caught up in Talk:United States on the subject of the Palmyra Atoll, I found myself reading [Downes v. Bidwell] (link added to the article), which is apprently credited with the distinction between "incorporated" and "unincorporated." I took the examples of the constitutional protections in both kinds of territories from the opinion:

We suggest, without intending to decide, that there may be a distinction between certain natural rights enforced in the Constitution by prohibitions against interference with them, and what may be termed artificial or remedial rights which are peculiar to our own system of jurisprudence. Of the former class are the rights (...) to freedom of speech and of the press; to free access to courts of justice, to due process of law(.) Of the latter class are the rights to citizenship (...) and to the particular methods of procedure pointed out in the Constitution, which are peculiar to Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence (trial by jury).

The focus of incorporation seems to be what parts of the constitution apply to the individual as opposed to the territory or its government. Other parts of the judgment point out that Congress is still allowed to do things in any kind of territory that are beyond the pale within a state (create judicial positions with limited terms, give preferential treatment to a territorial port, etc.).

I also took out the final sentence mentioning that an incorporated territory is a "permanent part" of the country. You can see my feelings on the above-mentioned Palmyra Atoll discussion, but if nothing else I haven't seen anything definitive one way or the other. More often it seems to be an idea used by, say, Puerto Rican independistas to get a referenda to swing their way, or by estadistas, for the same reason. The idea illicits a strong nationalistic/patriotic reaction, but I'm not seeing a legal basis. David Iwancio 09:07, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of "Associated States" section

I removed the section listing "associated states" because that misstates the status of the Compact of Free Association nations. Though initially the rest of the world (especially the Communist bloc) treated them as part of the U.S., they are in fact sovereign nations, and after the Cold War ended they were all admitted to the UN as independent nations. (Palau gained its status later than the others due to nuclear weapons issues with the U.S.) Therefore, they should no longer be treated as "territories" of the U.S. However, I retained links to their articles, as well as to the "Compact of Free Association" article (instead of the "associated state" article, which is more about the concept), as they were part of the historic Trust Territory of the Pacific. --RBBrittain 02:44, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Please Be Careful

Don't give people the misleading idea that Cuba was ever actually considered part of the United States of America officially!CharlesRobertCountofNesselrode 20:52, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Part of it certainly is: Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. — BQZip01 — talk 17:51, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The moon=US territory

I've tagged this with {{dubious}}. I'm not sure we can even get a reliable source on the US claiming the whole thing as a territory, let alone proving that the claim is true. The Evil Spartan 17:29, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

It's patently untrue. Check out Outer Space Treaty, to which the United States is a signatory. I've removed the claim - Thanks for spotting it. MrZaiustalk 17:53, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incorporated areas

From the article:

Once incorporated, an incorporated territory can no longer be de-incorporated; that is, it can never be excluded from the jurisdiction of the United States Constitution (with a few exceptions; some territories belonging to the U.S. have been granted independence or ceded to foreign powers. See Rio Rico, Texas).

I was always of the mindset that not an inch of incorporated territory can be "de-incorporated", so thanks for the Rio Rico reminder. However, I take issue with the other exception listed, that is "some territories ... have been granted independence". While the Philippines and Cuba were both US territories that were later granted independence, were they incorporated territories? I can't find any evidence either way. Other current-day US territories, like Puerto Rico and American Samoa are unincorporated and can declare independence any time they like. But incorporated areas cannot (as the US civil war showed).--Canuckguy 02:16, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Just found the answer later on in this article: the first non-incorporated territories were gained following the Spanish-American War in 1898. The Philippines and Cuba were both gained as a result of that war, which leads me to assume they were unincorporated. Which means they could declare independence any itme they want, unlike an incorporated area. Changing the original text to remove the reference to territories gaining independence as it refers to incorporated area, which none of the later-independent-territories were.) --Canuckguy 02:20, 9 September 2007 (UTC)