Talk:Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels

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Contents

[edit] Rename article?

This is pretty US centric. I think the title of the article should be renamed "Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan)", with Lost Levels as a redirect.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Headcase88 (talk • contribs) 01:40, 23 March 2005

It's better to avoid those parentheses when we can, and this a clear title, and the title that the game is known by most in English. Andre (talk) 02:05, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
Considering this is the English Wikipedia, I strongly disagree. K1Bond007 05:01, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
Then why is Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive) named so? The fact that it is the English version doesn't detract from the fact that the game came out first in Japan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Headcase88 (talk • contribs) 04:29, 1 April 2005
But there aren't any alternate English titles for it. Andre (talk) 03:14, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)
Good point.--Headcase 03:40, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Why don't you just change it to Super Mario Bros. 2: The Lost Levels
Because nobody calls it that. Because most non-Japanese players know it by "The Lost Levels," the title of this article should reflect that. Jeff Silvers 21:11, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 had a long odyssee of moves because there exist 2 different games for 3 consoles with (all together) 4 names. --32X 15:09, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
The game is known as Super Mario Bros. The Lost Levels even by today... it should be kept. --FlareNUKE 09:02, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I could see it going either way. This article is primarily about the Japanese version of the game, with details of rereleases as a seperate section. Lost Levels is only the title in the All Stars version (the other version, in Mario Deluxe, had a different name), and the name wasn't invented until 7 years later. So, my vote would be to move it. —Matthew0028 08:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Not really, In Super Mario Bros. Deluxe it was The Lost Levels which is pratically the same title. I haven't seen it been called “Super Mario Bros. 2” ever in the United States, when it's released it's always disguised as some add-on to the original. --FlareNUKE 07:54, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
I think that the name of the article should be kept as "Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels" but with "Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan)" as a redirect (if it isn't already) because this is the English Wikipedia and we call it "The Lost Levels", "Mario Bros. 2" would only be accurate for the Japanese Wikipedia. Mariorulez 19:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
In Super Mario Bros. Deluxe, it was Super Mario Bros.: For Super Players... "For Super Players" was also the subtitle added to it in the Japanese version of All-Stars (Super Mario Collection), making it "Super Mario Bros. 2: For Super Players" in that version... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.101.167.221 (talk • contribs) 20:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC).
I propose renaming the articles like this... Super Mario Bros. 2 (or Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels) would be "Super Mario Bros. 2: For Super Player" (as the game is retitled for Super Mario Collection, sharing the subtitle later seen in Super Mario Bros. Deluxe), and Super Mario Bros. 2 (or Super Mario USA) would be listed as "Super Mario Bros. 2: Mario Madness" (after the subtitle on the game's packaging).208.101.160.214 12:07, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Levels A-D

It's very fuzzy in the article, and something I've never seen made clear -- were levels 9 and A-D added for the SFam/SNES version or were they in the original? Melodia Chaconne 14:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

They were added, I believe. Andre (talk) 21:37, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
As noted in the current version of the article, 9 and A-D were in the original Famicom version. —Matthew0028 07:55, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
You need to beat the game 8 times (and thus get 8 stars on the title screen) -- Pellucidity 19:07, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Australian Release

I was not able to find any info about the mentioned Australian release - can anyone flesh it out (or remove it if it's not a true separate release)? Pellucidity 19:11, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I assume that Australian release date is for a supposed NES Classics version of this game. However, that was never released in Australia, so I guess the best thing to do is to remove that release date. --hirokazu 08:01, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Release dates?

Should the release dates for the United States and Europe be changed from "unreleased" to the release dates of Super Mario All-Stars? Jeff Silvers 04:54, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that the release date for the US should be set as the release date for "Super Mario All-Stars" because of the included improved remake, and the same for the UK but with note given to the fact that the original Japanese version has been released on the UK's Virtual Console (with changes made after 30th September 2007 (the time when the game will be withdrawn) to reflect the fact that it's gone (e.g. "was withdrawn on 30th September 2007" or complete removal of the note altogether)). Mariorulez 19:47, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Famicom Mini

What does the japanese text say in Super Mario Bros 2 famicom mini for the gameboy advance? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.155.211.36 (talk • contribs) 02:44, 14 June 2006 (UTC).

Top to bottom, left to right: "Famicom Mini," "Family Computer Disk System," "Super Mario Brothers 2". No idea what the "Cero" thing says. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.244.33.226 (talk • contribs) 04:41, 14 June 2006 (UTC).
What I mean is what does the words in the link below say:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/froggerzero/detail?.dir=/b156re2&.dnm=de92re2.jpg&.src=ph —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.249.3.95 (talk • contribs) 19:24, 14 June 2006 (UTC).
Alrighty, on the first two pictures, the text is:
    - Menu -
   Continue
   Reset
   Save High Score
   Sleep Mode

To cancel sleep mode
please press L+R+SELECT
Picture 3 (only the new text at the bottom):
Saves the current world number,
or the world number where you got "game over"
There is no previously saved world number
Picture 4:
High score and world number saved
     Please press a button

-- Rablari Dash 10:08, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External Link to game maps — just like a MobyGames link

I strongly feel that the external link to the Super Mario Bros. 2 game atlas is justified. I agree, of course, that material with any sort of promotional agenda doesn't belong in that section, but that's not what I had added; rather, I directly linked to the data on Super Mario Bros. 2, within a large and well-established database of game maps. It's just simple, raw information -- NOT a game guide -- and it's an excellent resource for people who are interested in the game. I can't possibly see how this is a violation of WP:NOT. If you think it is, I'm afraid you'll also have to remove every single one of the thousands of MobyGames links on Wikipedia, as that is essentially the same type of resource.
I will re-add the link in the absence of a reply here after some time. --Ecksemmess 13:18, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The MobyGames links are generally frowned upon, as well, except in those rare circumstances when the MobyGames entry for a particular title is particularly well-developed (which isn't all that often, honestly). The problem, as is discussed at length over at m:When should I link externally, is that "the web is already full past capacity of sites composed of links to other sites." If the information is relevant to the article, it should be worked into the article and the site included as a reference. If it is not relevant to the article, it shouldn't be linked at all. In this case, the site is a) probably a copyright violation, b) of questionable relevance to an encyclopedic overview of the game, and c) lacking any sort of contextualize or descriptive information to describe why it's relevant to anything. There are hundreds of thousands of sites that could be claimed to provide "simple, raw information." There are plenty of web directories which would serve as a much superior resource for listing a large number of these sites. Until then, Wikipedia is neither a web directory nor a game guide: the link in question adds little descriptive depth to the article, and is primarily useful as a aid to gameplay. Therefore, it fails on both counts. – Sean Daugherty (talk) 13:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm glad to see you have a thoughtful and reasonable defense for your point of view. Judging by the massive prevalence of MobyGames and similar links on Wikipedia video game articles, it would appear that the majority of those articles' editors disagree; however, I certainly can't demonstrate that such disagreement runs counter to the ideals of Wikipedia. It's actually quite a tricky situation, and I don't think it's worth getting into an extended debate here. I won't re-add the link, but I encourage anyone reading this to post something here and make their opinion known! --Ecksemmess 13:54, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: SMB Special

I don't see why the sentence re-added in this diff needs to be present, particularly in the lead section. Super Mario Bros. Special was ancient forgotten history until very recently, and we're not entirely sure how it fits with the other games. For example, both SMB2J and SMB Special were released in 1986 -- why is SMB Special the -first- sequel? And why is it related to this article enough to mention in the lead section? Andre (talk) 18:31, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Well if Super Mario Bros. Special was really released before this game, then it should be important to note that then to pretend this was the first sequel (& ignore the existance of Super Mario Bros. Special). Of course that's if Super Mario Bros. Special was really released before this game (I have never seen anyone state what date it was released beyond the year). SNS 16:59, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

There's no evidence either way, and besides SMB Special is a pseudo-sequel at best. Also, it really just doesn't deserve to be in the lead section. Since you don't appear to know what the order of release was, I'm going to not even say which one was first, and just take the reference out of the lead. Andre (talk) 01:45, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

... Anyone notice that the copyright date for Super Mario Bros. Special is 1985 and 1986? The original Super Mario Bros. 2 is just 1986. Also, the Mario Bros. Special and Punch Ball Mario Bros. games were pretty early as well... It's not totally conclusive, but I believe signs point to Super Mario Bros. Special having been released first.

[edit] Too hard for Americans??

I don't see what difference the country one lives in makes on difficulty. How is this game useful for Japanese but too hard for Americans?? Georgia guy 17:56, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

And I don't see how your question is useful on a discussion page for debates on changes to a Wikipedia article. If you want to discuss the game itself with other people, go to a forum. - Anon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.208.13.204 (talk • contribs)

They thought it would be too frustrating and were worried about causing another video game crash by gamers away. They weren't worried about this in Japan because the video game crash never happened in Japan. TJ Spyke 06:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was No move Duja► 10:54, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Support. Current title is somewhat awkward when it comes to the period followed by the colon, making the mistake of typing only a period or only a colon too probable of a mistake. Georgia guy 22:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Support The official release title should be used (SMB2j in this case), and not the weird translation. The Lost Levels should redirect to SMB2j instead. <3 bunny 00:18, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose. In the English-language Wikipedia, we typically use the English-language names of things. It was never released in primarily English-speaking territories prior to Super Mario All-Stars, at which time it was retitled Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels. Your concern in the discussion about it being easily mistyped is simply solved by creating redirects. That is what redirects are for. --WikidSmaht (talk) 08:45, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose per WikidSmaht. The official English language name is "The Lost Levels". -- Exitmoose 01:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose. We are the English Wikipedia; we use the name most common in the English language; that is The Lost Levels. ' (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 09:13, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose The English name (and most common name) is Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels. The onlyplace where that is NOT the name is in Japan. To CyberSach, would you want "Super Mario Bros. 2" to be moved to "Super Mario USA" just because that is the official title in Japan? TJ Spyke 06:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment. I would have voted to oppose per TJ Spyke if this were a requested move to simply Super Mario Bros. 2 with no dis-ambiguation suffix, but this is a proposed move to Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan), and the reason is to avoid awkward punctuation, not US-centrism. Georgia guy 20:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
      • Cant any problems one might have with awkward punctuation be handled with redirects? As it is Super Mario Brothers: The Lost Levels and The lost levels amongst others already redirect here. Wouldn't you say the title of the page should match the name of the game, not what people are most likely to type into the search box? (which in any case, would be "the lost levels", not "super mario brothers 2 (japan)", which is awkward in its own way.) -- Exitmoose 23:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Yep, any possible name somebody might type in for this game will bring them here. There is no reason this page should be at Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan) when every other region of the world had it named Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels. TJ Spyke 07:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Animated Titlescreen

What's the use of having the Japanese Mario Allstars titlepic animated? It resizes to a thumb picture of over 3 megabytes(!) on this article. --84.85.136.201 16:20, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Super Mario Bros. 2 given rating on ESRB

On the ESRB's website, searching for Super Mario Bros gives 7 results, one of which is listed as "Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan)", with a listed platform of "Nintendo". What do you guys make of this? Takuthehedgehog 02:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

probably for a Wii Virtual Console release.... most likely in Japan?
Not likely. Japan doesn't use the ESRB ratings system. Fingers crossed for a proper port of the original, I say! (Fryguy64 09:26, 1 July 2007 (UTC))
I think that the reason that the game has been given a rating by the ESRB is because Nintendo is planning to release the original Japanese version on Virtual Console, like they have in Japan and the UK (although if the release is like the UK release then it may be limited edition). Mariorulez 19:27, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] World 9

I know that in the All-stars version of this game, entering a warp zone will cause you not to be able to get to World 9, and will cause you to forfeit World 9 if you already have it. Nevertheless, I believe that in the original Famicom Disk System (FDS) version of the game, entering a warp zone has no effect on whether you can enter World 9: You must beat all 8 castles to enter World 9 in the FDS version.

Try getting a hold of the original FDS version of the game, then play through and beat Worlds 1, 2, 3, and 4, then in World 5-2 take the Warp Zone to World 8, then in World 8-1 take the Warp Zone back to World 5, then play through and beat Worlds 5, 6, 7, and 8, and you will still get to World 9 after rescuing the Princess.

Essentially, in the FDS version of the game, after you beat World 8, the value of RAM address $7FA is compared to #$FF: if equal, the game will proceed to load World 9; if not equal, the game will proceed to reload the title screen. When you beat a world castle, the corresponding bit to that world in $7FA is set. For example, the lowest bit is set when you beat World 1's castle, the next lowest when you beat World 2's castle, etc., all the way up to World 8, which sets the highest bit. Entering a warp zone has no effect on the value of $7FA. Cornince 10:40, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] B-class

This article is not a B-class article. There is not a single source cited in the article. Until the article gains sources, it's only a Start-class article. --myselfalso 00:41, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Mariobros2japanbox.jpg

Image:Mariobros2japanbox.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:06, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article name

The Famicom version has NEVER been released with the title "The Lost Levels". Furthermore, there has never been a standalone release of this game with the name "The Lost Levels". That name only appears in the US and European versions of All-Stars. In every Japanese version, it's Super Mario Bros. 2, and in SMB Deluxe, it's Super Mario Bros. for Super Players. I don't see why the All-Stars name should be given priority above the original release name. The Famicom box is featured prominently on the page, the article is primarily about the Famicom version, and so it should use the Famicom name. Phediuk 16:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

We use the Lost Levles per WP:NC(CN). It's been released in two territories under The Lost Levels, so TLL wins. Conversely, Sega Mega Drive was released in two territories under the Mega Drive name, so it is named like so instead of being named the Sega Genesis. hbdragon88 03:10, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "On The Virtual Console"

It's worded very poorly. I don't want to flat out remove it, since it's rerelease is noteworthy, in my opinion. Just thought I'd mention how bad it sounds... "If you have a Japanese account on the Nintendo Wii..." --Evildevil 03:03, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree; I've tidied it up a bit. --Roddie Digital 21:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redundant sentences?

Under the section called "Rereleases and reissues", and then "Super Mario Bros. Deluxe" beneath it, there are two sentences that I believe describe the exact same idea.

"...and since the screen resolution of the Game Boy Color was smaller than the NES, the view distance of the player is reduced."

"Also, since the Game Boy has a smaller pixel area than the Famicom, the field of view in this version was somewhat smaller than that of the original."

These sentences are in consecutive paragraphs. It could be argued they're each valid since one references NES and the other Famicom, but it seems redundant to me. Garsh 05:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] possible minus world in super mario bros. 2/the lost levels

I will watch speedruns/timeattacks of this game.I notice that in 8-bit speedruns/timeattacks that when they do a glitch to run through the walls(as in super mario bros.) they will jump over the pipe that normally goes to world 4 (this is before the pipe is marked) THEN jump into the pipe for world 4(after the pipe is marked). this may just be players being worried, but this may mean an existince of a minus world in super mario bros. 2/the lost levels. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.197.157.15 (talk) 03:42, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Nope, this game does the warp zones differently. If I recall correctly, in the first game, by default the left and right pipes were loaded with the value 36 (don't remember if this is decimal or hexadecimal) while the middle pipe was a value that I don't remember. With this game, however, the left and right pipes were eliminated, thus eliminating the problem. You may test this out yourself though. 66.20.92.8 (talk) 20:44, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Use a gameshark to access World 9?

The page says you can use a gameshark to access Worlds 9 and A-D on Deluxe for the GBC. However, I have not been able to find any code that does such. Should that phrase be removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.14.99.151 (talk) 02:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed it. In any event, Wikipedia is not supposed to be a game guide, and you can do a lot of weird things with a GameShark; it's simply unencyclopedic to mention them here. — TKD::Talk 02:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

wasnt there something on this page that said that badges where given to people who got to world 9? i cant find it anymore >.< —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.160.169.24 (talk) 05:57, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How many bits were the original Japanese cartridge?

320 KB? 2 MB? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.17.249 (talk) 19:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

The original FDS version wasn't in a cartridge, but on a diskette. The diskette had exactly 65,500 bytes of storage space on one side (almost 64KB). If I recall looking at the bytes the game probably did not use about 20,000 of those bytes and it used only one side of the diskette. Cornince (talk) 20:42, 17 February 2008 (UTC) (correction made -- Cornince (talk) 21:46, 26 February 2008 (UTC))

[edit] WP:VG assessment

I'm going to keep the Start-class rating, mainly because you need to get some more information into those development and reception sections. Although its not "official" yet, I'd give the draft How to write a good video game article essay a look over in relation to the reception and development sections, it should give you some good pointers on how to put them together. Other than that, I can only really recommend copyeditting what you've got, as some of the prose could be improved. For example, four of the paragraphs in the gameplay section start with a game title, which isn't very engaging. Lastly, try organising the infobox a bit better. Use <br /> to create line breaks between the platforms, as they are rather messy in their current forms. -- Sabre (talk) 17:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)