Talk:Robert Nairac

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.	Biography Portal
Start	This article has been rated as start-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]
	This article is supported by the Military work group.

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- B-Class-1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points have appropriate inline citations. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- B-Class-2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- B-Class-3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- B-Class-4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- B-Class-5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no Associated task forces (nations and regions): British military history task force

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Northern Ireland, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Northern Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the assessment scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.)
Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.
WikiProject Northern Ireland tasks: Here are some open WikiProject Northern Ireland tasks: Places: Mussenden Temple and Downhill Demesne, Devenish Island Monastic Site, Killyclogher, Derryvore Landmarks: The Skerries (Northern Ireland), Black Pig's Dyke, Helen's Tower Parks and gardens: Events: Ulster Cup, Ulster hockey People: Alison Campbell, Paul Charles (novelist), Paula Clamp, Max Clendinning, Colin Cooper (academic), Newton Emerson, Lucy Evangelista, Robert Hall (doctor), Shauna Gunn, Sophie Hoopman, H Douglas Keith, Charles Michael Lavery QC, Henry Lavery, Francis Maginn, Jim Malley, Catherine Jean Milligan, Phillip McCallen, Robert MacDonnell, Joseph Tomelty, Gayle Williamson, Zane Radcliffe, Professor Richard Rose, Brian Baird (newsreader) Newspapers/Magazines: Fortnight Magazine 'Schools/Colleges: Glenola Collegiate School, Our Lady and St Patrick's College, Belfast Boy's Model School, St. Columbanus' College, Streets: Rivers: River Bush, River Mourne, River Moyola, River Roe Organisations: Industrial Development Board, Forest Service Northern Ireland, Rivers Agency Northern Ireland, Invest NI, Roads Service Northern Ireland, Child Support Agency (NI), Boundary Commission for Northern Ireland, District Policing Partnerships, Compensation Agency, Office of the Oversight Commissioner, Electoral Office for Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland Housing Executive, Central Services Agency, Northern Ireland Blood Transfusion Service, Census Office in Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency, Cameron Commission, Hunt Committee, Stanley Leisure, Ormo, Sunblest (currently re-directs) History: Rose Report, History of Armagh, History of Newry, History of Lisburn Buildings: Belvoir Park Hospital, Guildhall, Derry Major topics: Geography of Northern Ireland, Geology of Northern Ireland, Integrated Education Edit or discuss this list.

	Ireland Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Ireland on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, visit the project page.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the priority scale.

Contents 1 Comical 2 Danny McAlevey/McErlaine 3 NPOV 4 Roman Catholic 5 Request on my personal Talk page to not adjust article 6 Fair use rationale for Image:GeorgeCrossObv.jpg 7 Was Nairac's mother British or a native of Mauritius?

[edit] Comical

This article is beyond a joke, even if we are to accept Eamon Collins account of Nairac's ending in the meat machine (which is the widespread belief around the borderlands anyway). For a guy who disappeared without trace, the extent of knowledge held by one Wikipedia editor about all the treatment he allegedly received is quite impressive. Our omnipresent editor knows, for instance, that Nairac 'was subjected to a succession of exceptionally savage assaults in an attempt to extract information which would have put other lives and future operations at serious risk'. That the mystery of this man is solved here on Wikipedia after 29 years is a truly astounding feat, and I hereby nominate our editor for Wikipedian of the Year award. I'm particularly moved by the strength and courage which Nairac showed in the face of adversity, and we are told that 'These efforts to break Captain Nairac's will failed entirely. Weakened as he was in strength-though not in spirit-by the brutality'- ah yes, how very British of him (Who's writing this: Nick Griffith?) but our omniscient Wikipedia editor continues indicating to us that he knows how many people were in this matter-of-fact room, 'he yet made repeated and spirited (aha ye Gods! that British spirit again!) attempts to escape, but on each occasion was eventually overpowered by the weight of the numbers against him.' All I want to ask now is this: will the writer of this piece kindly present himself to the local crown forces and confess to what is clearly on his conscience? Is mise, El Gringo 06:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, if you actually bothered to read the article before making snide remarks about it, you would see that the quote is from Nairac's George Cross citation, which is actually available online. So hardly original research "by one Wikipedia editor", is it? Use common sense before making POV comments like this. Oh, and I assume you mean Nick Griffin not Nick Griffith? I wasn't actually aware that the BNP had anything to do with the George Cross! -- Necrothesp 15:05, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Spotted that the military honor he received says it was his "fourth tour"- anyone any details on that? I will be adding in some details Ken Livingstone gave in his 1987 maiden speech to the Holroyd entry.

Fluffy999 23:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

An interesting source of clarification might be the book Faith and Duty written by Nick Curtis MM. (That's his nom de plume but his Military Medal is real.) Nick worked intelligence in Northern Ireland in the seventies and witnessed Nairac's activities first-hand. His testimony is less than flattering.

Tony G

Awesome, thanks Tony G. Will check it out. Fluffy999 00:49, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Danny McAlevey/McErlaine

I've changed the name to McErlaine based on the source I added, Toby Harnden's Bandit Country. However there is an online source that states the name used was McAlevey. Bandit Country was published before the Sunday Mirror article, and I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the Sunday Mirror journalist doesn't have the knowledge or contacts that Harnden does, and a mistake was probably made by the Mirror. Other opinions welcome. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 18:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

Tag added as we have allegations that Nairac knew killers etc. Absolute BS. Smear job Weggie 14:35, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Why is it a smear job to say Nairac knew who his killers were ? the full details of the event were made known, and appeared in the press, when the case went to court. Did the the court not find that the deed had been committed by individuals who were members of the Provisional IRA? Kbservices 18:48, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I think Weggie is talking about this section, to be fair. I don't consider just adding a tag and saying the article is POV is a constructive thing to do though, please at least say what aspects of the article would need changing/improving for it to be NPOV. Thanks. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 18:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Well since you asked 'Robin Jackson' - Clearly a smear. I can't just change articles nowadays as various interest groups will descend and revert so lets discuss shall we Weggie 18:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Can´t see in the article any item that says Nairac "knew killers " and no item that says killer was, or killers included, "Robin Jackson"...Please direct to the relevant item.. Thanks Kbservices 19:04, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Please don't tar everyone with the same brush Weggie, I've always tried to be fair in my dealings with you. What changes do you think need to be made to the article then please? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 19:07, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Colour me blind, but I can't see anything in the two cited sources (and the Wallace article) that definively links Jackson and Nairac, there's definitely no cite for "Nairac was consistently linked with Robin Jackson". Based on experience of similar situations the conclusion I'm drawing is that Jackson was possibly a security forces informer of some kind, but there's not a single piece of evidence currently cited that Nairac was his handler or involved with him in any way. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 19:22, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

The implication also is that Barron endorses the various claims - does he really? Also, the TV programme is slated Weggie 19:32, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roman Catholic

Nairac was certainly a Roman Catholic, but "devout"? Is there any proof of this loosely (if frequently) used adjective? Millbanks 07:46, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Re Roman Catholic The only evidence that I know of that he was a devout catholic is that he attended a staunchly catholic school. Thannad —Preceding comment was added at 16:24, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request on my personal Talk page to not adjust article

Ref. Edit 11.12.07 Please do not make any add any additional material to the paragraphs I have added as these are taken directly from the source material, unless you have access to the book? This is a controvertial topic so we need this to be 100% free from questions of verifiability Kernel Saunters (talk) 14:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Reply to Kernel Saunters: The edits adjusting facts stated are made from my personal knowledge of Robert Nairac's early life. Thankyou Kbservices (talk) 15:09, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

This isn't kinda the way wikipedia works, see WP:Verifiability. However the edit in question is in fact correct as per the book I've used so it's not something I would remove. I'll be making some more edits so it would be much appreciated if you could give this a review once complete. Kernel Saunters (talk) 15:21, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Reviewed changes, no edits in mind

Kbservices (talk) 13:26, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:GeorgeCrossObv.jpg

Image:GeorgeCrossObv.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot (talk) 22:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Was Nairac's mother British or a native of Mauritius?

The article doesn't say.jeanne (talk) 13:49, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Having checked the ODNB article on him [1] she was called Barbara Dykes, so I'd imagineshe was British, but that's not exactly conclusive either. David Underdown (talk) 15:04, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I would imagine with that name she was in fact British but in all the photos that I've seen of Nairac,he seems to have had a rather swarthy,foreign aspect to his appearance.Yet, if his mother had been from Mauritiusjeanne (talk) 11:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC), that fact would surely have been noted.jeanne (talk) 11:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)