Talk:Panathinaikos FC

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Too many historical details. Too less real information about the club (titles, records, etc). List on cleanup. MathKnight 17:32, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Merge

It has been suggested that this article be merged with the Panathinaikos sports club article.

I disagree with merging the football club articles with their respective parent clubs because the FCs have evolved as separate entities, and as a consequence deserve their own articles (and I don't think many football fans want to wade through information about a sports club's fencing or chess team before getting to the football stuff). A case in point is the Olympiacos page. Opinions? Dragases 06:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

There is no reason to merge these 2 articles, as you said. Although Panathinaikos FC, Panathinaikos BC and Panathinaikos VC are departments of Amateur Panathinaikos, they have their own shareholders and act independently. As a result, the articles must stay as they are.--KaragouniS 11:38, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

παο ολε ολε

[edit] Kit Evolution

I think that one of the most interesting sections of articles regarding sports clubs is a club's crest and kit evolution. Maybe we could do something about it! I have this photo http://img12.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=28226_paotimeline_122_1144lo.JPG (unfortunately i don't remember where i found it) and i think that we can use it as a guideline in order to shape Panathinaikos wikimedia kit --Goldimit 05:55, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Eventually I managed to do it myself--Goldimit (talk) 20:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lineups

I changed the lineup to the one used by Pao against atromitos. My reasons were: 1)The season has started so i think an actual lineup would be better than an estimation 2)The old lineup had an 4-4- formation with 1 DMC and 1 AMC. In reality Pao play with 2 DMC this year even againts "inferior" opponents 3)Salpigidis was in a MR position. He has never played that position for pao. He used to play there for Paok in his first years i think. However in his last year on paok he played as a striker and he was obtained by pao for that role 4)Had Ivanschitz as a starter while he was injured (he is a starter now that he is fit)

So appart from swapping players to the ones that played last sunday i also turned the one amc to a second dmc and pushed Ndoye's position (now Sapligidis') a little forward to make it clearer that its a FW and not a AMF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.203.210.201 (talk) 10:28, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Update: I also added a section with pao results in superleague this season. I itent to do uefa/greek cup results too. Do u think they should be on a new page as to not make this one too long? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.203.210.201 (talk) 12:00, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wooter

Why is wooter a notable former player? He wasnt that important when he was on the team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.203.168.243 (talk) 20:02, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Centenary Kit

I changed the home jersey to the new centenary one. I'm not sure if i got the colour right.--Goldimit (talk) 04:54, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

  • I honestly don't get it! Why would people keep changing the kits? I can't just keep on redoing them, since those lame edits just keep on coming!--Goldimit (talk) 22:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stadium Info

The information regarding the section on the stadium is out of date. Apostolos Nikolaidis was already renovated a few months ago and is now being used for matches. 24.149.206.249 (talk) 07:30, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

  • It's been corrected. Good point!--Goldimit (talk) 18:24, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fan Sites

Organized Fan Clubs might interest readers who want to get involved with the team's support, but it's impossible to add every single website (and there's always Google). I didn't delete any but I think only those of some importance should stay in the article. Any thoughts?--Goldimit (talk) 20:58, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Nikopolidis and Konstantinou

Who on earth considers them "notable". The first was the reserve keeper for over the half of his playing career, and as a regular he only won a double in 2004. Same with konstantinou, whose only notable moments were some goals in the late 2003-2004 season - and nothing more in 4 seasons as a Panathinaikos footballer. Plus the notable players don't speak offensive towards their former team (remember some interviews they gave when they joined osfp). Sto stop adding them, there's no serious reason for them to consider as "notables".--KaragouniS :  Chat  21:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Yeah yeah in your dreams.Nikopolidis is one of the best 3 Greek Keepers of all time and Konstantinou was the best Striker in Greece between 1998-2005.All the other are bullshit.In an encyclopedia we include facts and not preferences.If you don't like it then go make a Derby Sport wiki and then don't add them. Eagle of Pontus (talk) 07:23, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
stop offending me and go find sources before you add them again here - and btw, I havent read any of these newspapers for over 2 years. The best striker of what? How can he be the best when he only scored 22 goals in 3 years (except the last season which he showed some progress but not enough)? And for nikopolidis, it's just nonsence. 11 years as number 2 and when he finally managed to get a regular position, he left the team. Go find some fact and then add them.--KaragouniS :  Chat  11:02, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

If Nikopolidis and Konstantinou aren't notable players with almost 200 of combined national cups and a couple of championships and cups in their trophy case then yes you don't know shit about football.They are noted and you downgrade the level of the article by your stupid partisan reverts.I guess Filakouris Antoniou and Karoulias are more noted....Lol Eagle of Pontus (talk) 13:29, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Watch you mouth lad, talking like this doesn't help our conversation at all. And yes, Filakouris, Antoniou and Karoulias were more notable than the traitors, Filakouris won many championships and participated in the 1971 ECC Final, while Antoniou and Karoulias were members of the great Panathinaikos team during the 80's (who reached the 1984 ECC Semifinals) and won OSFP 4-0 in the 1986 cup final. And the most important is this guys showed enormous respect to their team, not like the traitors who were laughing at us when they left the club. --KaragouniS :  Chat  13:44, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Personally I'm not sure whether Nikopolidis should be added as a notable former player or not. It should be clear that he's not beloved by Panathinaikos fans and he left the club to join the "eternal enemy" based on a better contract (he has never declined that). Regarding his performance, most of his accomplishments were not with Panathinaikos jersey. The whole "Notable former players" section needs further edit. As for Konstantinou there's nothing to discuss. He's not worthy of being considered as notable for Panathinaikos, maybe for Iraklis. Eagle of Pontus I assume you have good intentions but the way you decided to edit the article shows the exact opposite.--Goldimit (talk) 20:04, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Just an outside comment: Whether they are "beloved" or not is completely immaterial. This is supposed to be an encyclopedic, informative list of who played for this club. It's not the club's gallery of honours. Whether the club likes to be associated with these players doesn't come into it. – The rest of the disagreement seems to be about whether "notable former players" should be understood as (1) "notable footballers who are former PAO players", or rather (2) "footballers who are notable for being former PAO players". From what you say, you are arguing that Konstantinou doesn't fit criterion (2). EagleOfPontus is saying that he does fit (1). Spontanously, and as an outsider, I'd say that criterion (1) makes more sense. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:13, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
I see your point, I don't agree though. For starters, I believe that both the "Notable former coaches" and "Notable former players" lists need reediting because there's no basis on the criterion. What does notable stand for? Is there a wikipedia instruction for that? Konstantinou was a star in Iraklis but in Panathinaikos the expectations were greater. He played an average first year and then nothing "notable" (in my point of view). I think he doesn't fit the "notable footballers who are former PAO players" category because there's no comparison between Iraklis and Panathinaikos, again the fact that Konstantinou is notable for Iraklis doesn't make him notable for Panathinaikos or Olympiacos.As for Nikopolidis, I said I'm not sure. I think he could be added but it should be done the "Figo way" like FC Barcelona's article.--Goldimit (talk) 21:55, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

This page has got 0 references..????...and its rated a "Start"...people please start ading references...we are trying to get the "Big 3" (Olypiacos,Panathinaikos,AEK) at least rated a B The-Real-ZEUS (talk) 00:47, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rules of engagement

Paidia. What kind of battlefield is this? Everybody seems to have gone crazy here.

For the time being, I'd like to install a few clear rules of engagement:

  1. No edits without edit summaries
  2. No anonymous editing - if you want to participate regularly, get yourself a username
  3. Absolutely zero tolerance against revert warring
  4. No treating other people's edits as "vandalism" when they are not (read it)

People who misbehave will be topic-banned from all football-related articles. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:05, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Coaches section

I think some changes are needed. Too many dates and no exact reference, how do we know they're correct. I will edit this section and I think a "Selected former coaches" format would be a better.--Goldimit (talk) 15:34, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Panathinaikos Badge image

We have to find a new image for Panathinaikos' badge, one like Olympiakos' and AEK's one, only in reduced size like Arsenal's. This way it will look better than the image that is currently in use.Goldimit (talk) 00:50, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I changed the badge image, the new one doesn't have that white square background around the circle. Credits to bilhs. Goldimit (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

The previous image was incorrect as it was missing the umlaut over the I. I've uploaded an SVG graphic of the correct emblem, instead. Dragases (talk) 05:43, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History Section

I have been collecting information, references, photos etc. in order to make the history section of this article better, more informative and CORRECT. Actually the amount of info i managed to find is too large and it would still be large when it's done and wikified! I've noticed that in some football clubs' feature articles they keep the history section of the main article relatively short and instead new articles containing large amounts of info are created and are presented as "More details on the topic". I think I'm gonna do the same but I have some questions i'd like to address:

  1. How do you know when an article has excessive content and should be split in two? If i create an article under the title "History of Panathinaikos FC", can I rename it afterwards to e.g. "History of Panathinaikos FC until 1959" and place the remaining in a new article named e.g. "History of Panathinaikos FC from 1959 to present day"?
  2. Is there a guide that could help someone when he tries to reduce a 20-30 paragraphs text to just 5 or 10? I know it's subjective but I want to be sure! There are things now in the history section that are either false or unimportant, such as the role of Marinakis and the club's IFFHS award.
  3. Until the full history of the club is added on wikipedia, the history section of this article will be short and not very informative. Is that wrong?
  4. Is there a date when the semiprotection will end? I wish it stays this way for a couple of months because the history section is the most vandalism-attractive section.

I will have the history section edited soon, I'm sure that with your help it will be improved. Thanks in advance! Goldimit (talk) 17:32, 27 March 2008 (UTC) I did itGoldimit (talk) 22:57, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ownership and Supporters issues

First of all I would like to make clear that I don't go to Leoforos, I was in Pedion Areos on 13 April and I support the ownership's recent announcement. It has to be clear that there's a big difference between what's encyclopedic knowledge and what's news. I agree that this year's state of Panathinaikos has to be included in the article but it has to be done in a proper manner. You can't just add a section called "Centenary Crisis"! I think the right way to do it is by adding an ownership and a supporters section. PEK and ownership's changes should be added in the first and the disagreement of Eniaios Foreas Syndesmon Gate 13 with Jigger and the 13 April march should be added in the latter.

PS.If someone doesn't know what a reference mean he should search it in wikipedia before adding links. Goldimit (talk) 08:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] selected coaches..?

Why exactly are Ščasný and Backe in the selected coaches section? They didnt win anythind and lasted one and half a year respectively. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Papanixtas (talk • contribs) 16:58, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

hm, I've renamed the whole section so the title seems right.--KaragouniS :  Chat  19:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Helder Postiga

Why have you written that Postiga transfered to Sporting Lisbon? He was on loan to Panathinaikos from Porto and after he returned to porto he was transfered to Sporting Lisbon. Sergiogr (talk) 13:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)