Talk:List of religious populations

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Contents

[edit] Cleanup

Can whoever wrote the sidenotes below each list note that a)that they are mostly unneccessary, b) that full stops and commas require a space after they are made. Also, WTF is v.v. after each statement in brackets? Does this mean etc., because I've never seen it before... Arkyopterix 19:07, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Number of muslims

the number of muslims is very but very inflated in fact muslims are not much than 502mln africa=200mln asia=300mln europe=1mln america=1mln

I don't know about that. Everytime I make a trip back to Africa, I see fewer and fewer churches and more and more mosques. I think the 1.3 billion number for Muslims is accurate or even a little low. Theravada1 17:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

This statement is absurd. Indonesia alone has over 185 million Muslims(lowest estimate), while India has over a 150 million(lowest estimate by the government). These two countries alone make the number of Musliims in Asia to over 300 million. In France, even the government lists 4.1 million as Muslims, which nullifies the 1 million stated above.

[edit] Number of Buddhists

Shinto is not the same as Buddhism, and Bhutan has close to 100% Buddhist Population

I seriously doubt there are 9.1 billion muslims as the article would currently lead us to believe.

A lot of people in Japan would see themselves as both Shinto and Buddist, they don't see any conflict between the two.

But I agree these lists seem to be missing a large number of countries, they are a list of countries with % but not all the countries are included

I have changed the figure for Buddhism on the basis of a figure of 30% for China. This is almost certainly far too low. The only available figure for Mainland China from government sources is 11%. This indicates that it is referring to publicly committed Buddhists and is then hardly comparable to figures for self-identified Christians in a Census. The only way I can see to get any kind of figure is to make an estimate in between the percentages for Buddhists in Singapore and Taiwan. SelwynC 22:12, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

What is going on with the number of Buddhists??? It has gone from a CIA estimate of around 400 million to 700 million, to One billion, to 1.2 billion, and recently 1.4 billion. Now it has gone all the way back to lower than the CIA estimate of 350 million. The most credible number was when it was around 1 billion to 1.2 billion. That would be around 30% to 40% of mainland China, which is completely realistic. Who keeps messing up the Buddhist numbers??? Put it at around 1 billion and just leave it! Theravada1 17:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It was mentioned previously that someone wanted sources. Well here are some sources for the number of Buddhists. Gach-Alpha Books, Asian News, buddhistchannel.tv April 2007, U.S. State Dept. report on China, Global Center for the Study of Contemporary China, have found that about 30% to 91% identify with Buddhism as one of their religions. A "realistic" percentage is probably around 40% which would place the number of Buddhists at 1 billion. Theravada1 17:10, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

April 25, 2007 update: I see someone did change the number back to about 1.4 billion from yesterday's incorrect entry of 350 million. Anywhere from 1 billion to 1.5 billion seems very realistic. Thanks. Theravada1 17:22, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I suggest we all avoid using biased sources. True research work should avoid such practice. If we are to use biased reports, we would have 3 billion Christians, 2.2 billion Moslems, 1.8 billion Buddhists, 1.2 billion Hindus, 500 million Atheists, all of which may add up to over 10 billion.

I agree with whoever wrote the parag. above starting with "I suggest . ." On the main page of the article, unbiased sources ARE being used. The totals do not add up to 10 billion. The totals from the major religions, the non-religious, the atheists, and other religions, just adds up to 6.4 billion; about the population of the world. So wikipedia is doing good.  :) Theravada1 22:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

The number of Buddhists in India should probably be adjusted upward. There have been many mass conversions of the Indian untouchables (dalits) from Hinduism to Buddhism. In some ceremonies there have been as many as 50,000 converting on one day. See: http://www.daophatngaynay.com/english/world/facts/conversion-manpreet.htm I would suggest raising the percentage for India who are Buddhist to at least 1.5% Theravada1 04:28, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I see from your cute little name there that you really must like Buddhism. With your editing style though, perhaps "Mahayana" would be a better name though. That aside, have you ever been to China? And aside from the data entry professional above, who on Earth would say this: "The only way I can see to get any kind of figure is to make an estimate in between the percentages for Buddhists in Singapore and Taiwan" with a straight face? I think the government estimate of eleven percent of the country is a good number. It is certainly not a Buddhist country. Along with that, Japan's population is not that Buddhist either. This is fairly common knowledge. 204.210.103.63 (talk) 03:14, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the above user. I'll try and fix the number of Buddhists with reliable sources. Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 23:54, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Saying, "This is fairly common knowledge" is meaningless. Let's see some sources and some links to factual data. Just saying things like "have you been to China" or "common sense" is pointless and does not add to the discussion. The sources all point to at least one billion Buddhists. China and Japan are Buddhist nations (the majority is at least nominally Buddhist). Yes, I have been there. Vibhajjavada (talk) 20:02, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

This article has two sources, one of which points to the other source. The only source for this article, then, is the CIA factbook. When I looked at the CIA factbook, a number of these figures aren't actually present. I've added some source requests for a number of claims. -Quasipalm 00:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the CIA Factbook and many other sources on the Web are very poor for Buddhism. They assume very low or even zero numbers for Buddhists in such countries as Vietnam and North Korea. This is obviously wrong. More crucially, they use figures from the Chinese government listing only highly committed Buddhists. This is dishonest when figures for nominal believers are used elsewhere. Moreover, it has to be noted that Buddhism is not incompatible with Taoism and Chinese traditional religion for most believers. So as with Shinto and Buddhism in Japan, the majority of the population should be listed under more than one heading. SelwynC

"They assume very low or even zero numbers for Buddhists in such countries as Vietnam and North Korea. This is obviously wrong." What is your authority on these claims? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.98.237.42 (talk • contribs) .

Exactly! Nominally religious (a certain religion based on birth only, not any practice) adherents of Christianity are counted as Christian whereas followers of Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism and other non-Christian religions are not counted at all. Not fair! Nthndschmidt 23:40, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Why on earth would you want to use the CIA as a source of religious adherents?? They could not find Osama bin Laden if he walked in their front door! Nthndschmidt 23:37, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

In the proportion of Buddhists, by country, someone wrote: "Remark: 1. Japan has been known to be largely Atheist. (over 80%) Japanese Buddhists are considered philosophical Buddhists, and in practice do not believe in God."

But what they don't understand is that Buddhism is an atheistic religion. There is no creator-God in Buddhism. The Japanese strong ties to atheism is only fueling an increased interest in Buddhism in that country since Buddhism is basically non-theistic. Theravada1 18:41, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Atheist / Non Religious - (1,162 million 1994 USCB)

What's 1,162 million? Is that supposed be 1.16 billion? -VJ 18:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


These figures are completely false. All people that have been baptized are considered catholics, which is absolutely wrong. wikiala 18:33, 4 june 2006 (UTC)

There is also no list of countries with the highest population or proportion of Atheists/Irreligious people.

[edit] Countries with the greatest proportion of Christians (as of 2002)

This list is hopelessly inadequate. Where are all the other obviously-Christian countries, like Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Austria, Hungary, Switzerland, Italy, the list goes on ... Have these a lower proportion of Christians than Mali with its 1%? 83.70.78.245 20:06, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

  • I agree that the list is inadequate. Therefore, I've removed from the list any country which has a lower percentage of Christians than 80%. For some reason, Mali remained on the Christian list since the creation of this article; apparently the anonymous editor who started the article had statistics showing that Mali was 90% Muslim and 1% Christian, so he added Mali to the "highest proportion of Muslims" list at 90% and to the "highest proportion of Christians" list at 1%. Let's focus on the higher-proportion countries for each religion covered before we start listing the lower-proportion ones. --Metropolitan90 06:43, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Number of Christians in India

A highly Populated country like India also have a high population of Christians,like other minor religion. Christians are estimated at 2.5%- 3% making it around 40 million.It is a big number comparing it even Christian countries in Europe, South Americas & African countries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sudpau (talk • contribs) 15:20, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Islam in Somalia

I'd be interested to know where the figure of 100% Muslims in Somalia comes from. I assume it's some sort of "official" figure rather than a reflection of reality, but since there has been no census of any kind in Somalia for well over a decade (and no resident government with authority over the whole country since the fall of Siad Barre in 1991), what source does this figure emanate from? Not the CIA factbook, which simply states: "Religion: Sunni Muslim", without suggesting any numbers. Is this some Wikipedian's dubious interpretation of data? Aridd 17:44, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

This is because in Somalia, in order to be a citizen, you must be a Moslem. Otherwise they kill you (cultural thing). The same applies to Saudi Arabia. Every Saudi Arabian citizen must be a Moslem. The number of non-Moslems is due to foreigners.

[edit] Suggestion to merge Major religious groups into List of religious populations

I oppose the merge. Major religious groups is presented much more professionally, and includes contextual placement, is designed only to include Major groups --Trödel 15:28, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree; this page is a hodge-podge of different information from different sources and is in no way comprehensive. Maybe once this page is up to snuff, some limited info could be moved, but really the info should be kept in this page. -- Jeff3000 15:33, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
I oppose the merge too. List of religious populations seems rather incoherent/disorganized and needs a lot of work. In contrast, Major religious groups seems relatively "mature" and should not be destabilized in such a fashion. Merging would also seem likely to result in excessive length. The two pages have not even been previously regarded as sufficiently related to contain links to each other (although perhaps they should). -Wookipedian 17:30, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
I oppose the merge - the other page is of higher quality and has a less ambiguous title. --The Transhumanist 06:59, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I oppose the merge. Unlike List of religious populations, Major religious groups is not a competition of which religion has more adherents, and is more useful for research.

[edit] WT?

France 90 percent catholic?? Turkey 99.8 percent muslim?? If I hadn't lived for years and years in both of these countries then I might be inclined to say oh, really?? interesting.., but since I did live for years and years in both, I can only say what the ..?.. I mean, have I been living in different countries or what?? :))) At least a third of Turkish wikipedians are atheists right off the bat, that I know.. I am not talking about the number of atheists in France - no need to really, I will just go out the door and ask anyone on the street and boom, got one!! Baristarim 05:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree about France stats being totally WRONG: first of all from personal experience I can tell there aren't many christians in France. Second of all I "believe" there are more muslims than indicated as there is quite a lot of immigration from north africa. Third of all, basic maths tell me that if between 20 and 29 percent of french population is christian -which makes sense to me-, there cannot possibly be 56,709,186 christians in France. I suggest using INSEE-if applicable- for more accurate figures. 82.16.205.213 (talk) 17:06, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No Russia on list?

What about no Russia in the largest christian population country list?It has around 141 mil. inhabitants, and about 65% of them are christians.

One should also not neglect to mention China. Even though the proportion of christians is low, even the most conservative estimates put its christian population at 100 million

Actually, most conservative estimates put it below 60 million. 100 million is usually the number of Buddhists. The most conservative estimate that there's been is 1%, while the most liberal is over 8%. I'd say its somewhere in the middle, so 3-4% would make sense. But yeah, it would be added as largest Christian population, not by % though. Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 05:18, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Muslim population in Turkey is exaggerated

It says 99.8% muslims in Turkey. That's ridiculous. In Turkey they write "Islam" as religion in your ID card after your birth. But I know that the muslim population is not higher than 65% of population. And Atheist population is about 20-25%.


And also there are 700.000 zoroastrists known as yezinti. And of course at least 2-3 million of Hellenic speaking Orthodox cryptochristians.

[edit] WTF?

There is allot more atheists in the world then that. And why isn't there any list of what country's that have the biggest population of atheists? And the country that have the biggest density of atheists? 85 % of Norway is atheist. And about 25% of USA is atheist.

Wikipedia; come on. You are better then this...


85% of Norwegians are members of the Church of Norway. Some of them by choice, others by tradition, some by less than honest ways of doing statistics. But nothing stops them from leaving the church. So to claim that 85% are atheists is...WRONG! Knut/Norway

According to a few censuses and stuff, Norway is mostly secular. It even has more 30-40% atheists. That fits far outside of 85% Christian. Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 05:20, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Athiest" Communist Countries vs. Buddhism

This little sentence is at the end of the article. This should be edited to "anti-religious communist countries". Why? Because Buddhists are atheists too (!). Atheism has nothing to do with the religious oppression over there since the religious people oppressed generally follow a religion that has no God...

Well, part true. They can if they want to have no gods. Non-religion is a wider term. Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 20:28, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The percentage of Buddhist in China mainland,South East Asia,East asia.

Hi everyone!I am a mixed race of many Asian descents (Chinese/Cantonese,Vietnamese) with Filipino-Hispanic and I am a Buddhist and a religious researcher!Buddhism is the special religion which is very hard to know who is Buddhist in the secular society.As in Turkey,over 97% population is Muslims but they look like secular Westerns!I will discussion some wrong or not exact percentage of Buddhist in some countries!I will edit the list of religious population as soon as July 2007 with newest census and more exact!And Buddhism is the second largest religion with over 1.465 billion wasn't the liar or ridiculous behind Christianity (over 2.100 billion) and it followed by Islam and Hinduism.I think the recent census is too exact but not perfect!


  • SOUTH EAST ASIA:

1/Vietnam: I am living in Vietnam now,Buddhism in Vietnam is very strong influence from about 2000 years ago to now;but I am decisive to say the percentage of Buddhist in Vietnam is around from over 85% to maximum 88%,not 92% is very high and unbelievable (remember Hoa Hao Buddhism is a Vietnamese sect of Mahayana Buddhism not a separate religion;about Caodaism is NOT a sect of Buddhism'it is a separate Vietnamese religion which is the mixture of Buddhism-Taoism-Confucianism with Christianity mainly and included Hinduism or even Islam too).

Here is percentage of religion in Vietnam: Buddhism (all sects):88%; Christianity:8% (Roman Catholic is over 6.5%,Protestant is around 1% to 1.5%); Cao Dai (nearly 3%) and 1% is other religions (Muslim 0.08%;Hindu;Bahá'í)

2/Laos: The Buddhist must be over 90% at least to 95%;91% is too less.It is too funny when the percentage of Buddhist in Laos is less than Vietnam.Although,the influence of Buddhism in both these countries is heavy but in Laos,it is more important as a state religion!

3/Thailand: The percentage of Buddhist population is only could be 95% is the maximum,not 97% is quite high!

4/Myanmar: The percentage of Buddhist in Myanmar is around from 88-90% is the most possible.93% is couldn't true!

5/Malaysia: 44% Malaysian people is Buddhist===>It is very unbelievable.The real percentage of Buddhist in Malaysia is 19.2% (Buddhist only) to 21.8% (plus 2.6% of Confucianism and Taoism which is called East Asian Buddhism or "Triple religion").I will edit it soon with the latest census of 2007 soon!

6/Singapore: The Buddhist population in Singapore is from minimum (42.5%) could to be 51% (Buddhism+Taoism 8.5%) and maybe high as 60% acceptably!(plus more 2/3 of 14.8% No religion)

7/Philippines: The Buddhist population is only from 2 to 2.5% not 3% is a liitle bit high!


  • CHINA MAINLAND:

I have stayed in China in nearly a month (total time of 2 visits) and over 1.5 million Chinese live in Vietnam (half is concentrated in ChinaTown or Cho Lon in Vietnamese;which is the area of District 5,6 and a part of some neighbour districts in Ho Chi Minh city with predominant Chinese people).

And Chinese is more "Buddhist" than Vietnamese.8-9 or even 100% in every 10 Chinese people are Buddhists and they are worship common Buddha,Bodhisattvas,Arhats (Buddhism) with Taoist God,Goddess,Saints and heavy influence by Confucian philosophy in family-society-nation with respect teachings of Buddhism in private spiritual or religious life as a spiritual treatments,the philosophy which could make the life more peaceful,relaxed,easier,merciful and healthier body and bright mind with fresh life!And Vietnamese is same like that!

I've travelled to China 2 times and I've just watched a travel series of the Buddhist culture in East Asia.And it said the Buddhist population in China mainland is OVER 1 BILLION PEOPLE at least;Buddhism,Taoism and Confucianism "all in one" but Buddhism could the balance of each others!Buddhism and Taoism is the true religions with common philosophy but Confucianism is the philosophy than a religion!I am confident to say the percentage of Buddhist in China mainland is must be over 80% at least or maybe over 85% probably!77-78% is under the minimum (80%).Example for percentage of religion in China mainland: Buddhism (80%-85%,common with Taoist and Confucianist),all sects of Christianity (6.5 to 7%),Muslim (1.5 to under 2%),others as shamanism,animist (1%) and Atheist (5-10%,almost is members of China's Communist Party)

And if you've ever watched the TV series or famous Chinese novel of "Journey to the West".You can see the Monkey King- Sun Wukong have made trouble in Heaven and defeated an army of 100,000 celestial soldiers, led by the Four Heavenly Kings, Erlang Shen, and Nezha.Eventually, the Jade Emperor (the highest God of Taoism) appealed to Buddha, who subdued and trapped Wukong under a mountain.The Monkey King could do impudent activities with Jade Emperor and his Heaven Palace but he daren't do it with Great Buddha and Guan Yin Bodhisattva because they are more powerful and more merciful who could punish and teach him only!


  • EAST ASIA:

1/North Korea: 60% population of North Korea is Buddhist maybe certain but I think it is too less.The neutral estimate of Buddhist population here is should be over 65% certainly.

2/South Korea: Nowadays,South Korea is very particular country in East Asia where Christians is 49% and Buddhists is only 47% by the CIA's sources.But however,Buddhist population in Korea [[could be equal or 50%]] of South Korean population definitely;50.7% now is not really right!

3/Mongolia: [[Buddhist 98%]], Muslim 2%, 20,000 Christians.No more no less!(Source:[1])


  • SOUTH ASIA:

1/India: Over 1.1% of India' population is Buddhist could be certain!

2/Sri lanka: Over 90% Sinhalese people is Buddhist but the religious popualtion of Sri Lanka is Buddhism 76.7% (not high as 81%),Islam 8.5%, Hinduism 7.9%,Christianity 6.9%

3/Nepal: Hinduism 80.2%, Buddhism 21%, Islam 2.8%, other 1.2% The Buddhist population in Nepal is only 21%,not 33% is very liar!

4/Other countries in South Asia:

-Bhutan: Lamaistic Buddhist 97%, Indian- and Nepalese-influenced Hinduism 2%, Muslims 1%

-Pakistan: about 0.5% is Buddhist

-Bangladesh: 89.7% of the population was Muslim; 9.2% was Hindu; 0.7% were Buddhists; 0.3% was Christian and 0.1% was Animist. (Source:[2])

[edit] Largest Jewish populations

If you read the section Largest Jewish populations you find:

  1. Ukraine, 149,602
  2. Ukraine, 94,978

Maybe one of the "2 Ukraines" wants to be another country. But wich? --Mocu 09:37, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you,Mocu.I were mistake.9th is Ukraine and Australia is 10th!

[edit] Not fair for Buddhist population!Other religions are not fair-play with Buddhist population!

I am a Chinese Mandarin and I know the culture of my nation!I am so agree with a person in this discussion who is mixed of many Asian descents with Hispanic.He was say right 90% about the Buddhist population!In China mainland and some our neighbor countries in Far East where is very mysterious,interesting just like "Forbidden palace" in Beijing or anywhere in Far East Asia.

I think 78% Chinese people are Buddhist is very very modest.It is the contradiction when in "mini Chinese nations" as Hong Kong,Taiwan (over 90% is Buddhist);Macau (85%) and Singapore (3/4 is Chinese and 60% total population of whole island is Buddhist).That showed in every 10 Chinese people,at least 8 is Buddhist and the highest is 9 per 10.And someone has explained what is the Buddhism in Chinese culture!I think Buddhism is the most fantastic religion and the true religion of Peace and the Concord!

Mostly Christianity's churches must build as Western and European style.And all Muslim mosques must build as Arab style.

But in Buddhism,you can see the pagodas,temples could build with any traditional style and keep the value of national heritages as Chinese style (common property with Taoism and Confucianism) , Korean style, Japanese style (common property with Shinto), Vietnamese style; those are in Mahayana Buddhism.

In Theravada,the architecture is different completely.You can see it in India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia,...with Buddhist padodas are made of gold,silver,marble,v.v...

When you travel to Tibet or Himalaya,you can see more different style of Buddhism from architecture,costumes,buildings,v.v...

And so much more.That is the special and the lissomness of Buddhism;Buddhism is not boring,dry,rigid and monotonous as other religion as Christianity,Islam,Hinduism or Judaism!

I am swear to say Buddhist percentage in China mainland must more than Vietnam at least (86-87%) and even highest as 90% possibly!I will take the neutral figure (from 86% to 90%) is 88%

In China mainland;who is "non-religious" when he or she died,all their funerals would celebrate in Buddhist rituals mainly and Taoist rituals (burning of hell money;clothes,house,car,facilitiesfor life after death and wait for the new reincarnation in next life) and Confucianist (ancestor worship) with many (not all) ancestral altar under statues or pictures of Great Buddha,Guan Yin Bodhisattva or Dizang Bodhisattva!

I think Buddhist population must plus more 105 million minimum (86%) and 158 million people maximum (90%-only China mainland).And total Buddhist population must be from 1.588 billion and 1.639 billion (23.8% and 24.5% of World's population)

[edit] US Census Bureau ??

http://www.census.gov/prod/www/religion.htm

Where are the estimates from the US Government Census bureau ? If you check the link above it simply points to Adherents.com and a 3 Christian biased/based centres. This makes the inclusion if US government estimates on the page pointless. Unless someone can actually show where the estimates are in teh US Census Bureau ( which is primarily for censusing the US ) then I shall remove the US section.Vexorg 21:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

As there seems to be no opposition and as it's silly to include figures twice then I have removed the section on US Census bureau as it onyl links to Adherents.com anyway Vexorg 22:35, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Errors in the Maps

I'm sure that there are many errors... just see Bulgaria:

In 2001, the Bulgarian Orthodox Church had 6,552,000 members in Bulgaria (82.6% of the population)... In 2001, there were 967,000 Muslims in Bulgaria, accounting for 12.2% of the total population.

Someone should correct it. Thanks! 195.138.138.123 10:22, 9 July 2007 (UTC)yavor

Hi!you can see the Bulgaria (neighbor of Istanbul) again so you can see the Muslim percentage is light orange (10-19%)===>It was right!

[edit] Some suggestions!

Hi everyone!

I am managing the articles of Buddhism by country (with User:Bikeable);List of religious populations and a little of Christianity by country (with User:Vexorg) and maybe I hope in near future,I can contribute for projects of another religions as soon as possible!

The first;I think we need to update new census of July 2007 from source from http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbrank.pl which is I think is the most exact!And total population of the World as July 1,2007 is 6,671,226,000.I made it for Buddhism first!

The second;I think we should make the new style for all article of any religious populations by country (Buddhism by country; Islam by country; Hinduism by country) just like Christianity by country did with minimum percentage and maximum percentage from many sources (government,CIA,etc...).But in my mind and mostly people we all know the populations of Christianity, Islam, Judaism or Hinduism could estimate nearly right but with Buddhism,it is very HARD!Some sxample:

  1. Christianity in France (51%-85%), Belgium (38-84%),etc...
  2. Buddhism in China (21.3%-80%), South Korea (27-48%),etc...

How do you think about my suggestions?

And I want to invite User:Vexorg (Christianity), User:Opticals and User:OsamaKBOT (Islam), I with Clay Collier and User:Bikeable (Buddhism);etc...to found "The Union of Wiki Project Religions".So I want to hear your opinions and replies about that!

Contact me about that on my talk page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Angelo_De_La_Paz#Some_suggestions.21

Thank so much!God bless all of you! Angelo De La Paz 09:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia is not a source for Wikipedia

Wikipedia is not a reliable source. "Articles should rely on sources written by reliable third parties ... Articles and posts on Wikipedia or other open wikis should never be used as third-party sources." Wp:rs#Aspects_of_reliability

Additionally, self-references in the text have to go. WP:ASR Mdbrownmsw 16:49, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Era of Technical Accuracy

Greetings.

Following a consensus over at the article Christianity by country where estimates and non sourced figures are being frowned upon i suggest it's about time this was extended to this and the other <religion> by country articles. Personally I woulf rather leave the estimates in as it at least gives the reader some idea, but consensus said otherwise. Thoughts anyone? Vexorg 18:09, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jews figures for Russia

Jews figures for Russia are given for ethnic Jews. Most Jews in Russia are not religious.--Dojarca (talk) 08:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you're right but look at USA: 2.5% Jews but only over 1% seen it as religious! Angelo De La Paz (talk) 18:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Angelo!

Angelo, you can't just assert things without evidence! Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 02:11, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

  • If you talking about this articles so remember that I've added WP:OR tag since September, 2007 because I know it contains all estimates with multiple sources from the main articles of Christianity by country, Islam by country, Buddhism by country, Hinduism by country, etc...and this is only a supproting article which has collected all main important articles above, and you can check it for greater detail, not here. And this artcile has declared noted:

-Note that these figures may incorporate populations of secular/nominal adherents as well as syncretist worshipers, although the concept of syncretism is disputed by some.

And I've also added the currently table of Adherents.com for all people to see the different and compare. It's suitable for NPOV

If I am a Buddhist extremist so I will let non-Buddhist numbers down and only added biased-highest estimates in Buddhism by country or any "Religion" sections in Mongolia, Republic of China, Religion in China, etc...but I didn't, I add multiple sources with mixed-estimates because I respect NPOV; not like you Saimdusan because you are always let Buddhist numbers down and you are a strong anti-Buddhism. As I can see that you looks like a kid because your stubborn attitude and insular attitude with hatred for Buddhism. Stop making people know wrong with only your biased thinking because sometimes, in one question could contains many answers; that is why you must show all for the people and they can choose the favorite or what they think which is the righest. I hope you know. Thank you!

Angelo De La Paz (talk) 02:49, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Angelo, my point was that you can't just assert "North Korea must have 60% of the population as Buddhist!" without evidence. Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 03:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I didn't do that, but as you can see that although North Korean Communist Government is the most anti-religious one and Juche is as a "state religion" but the spiritual influence of Buddhism and Confucianism are still strong here [3][4][5]. But remember that North Korean Communist Government has had no disagreements with traditional Buddhism or Confucianism because that is their national culture and origin, although the relationship between Atheist Government and relgions are not harmony [6][7][8]

I know that you are doing anything and by many ways to let Buddhist numbers as less as possible because you hate Buddhism to your core and your marrow. I believe that you hate Buddhism most from your contributions here (as I can see) and my heart said that is true!

And don't tell me that I am preaching you again because it's enough for me and in my life, I don't like to talking with the dictators like you.

Angelo De La Paz (talk) 04:47, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Angelo, are you insane? I disagree with you on how many Buddhists there are, and then you say that I hate Buddhism? Regarding North Korea, none of your estimates indicate 60% of the population as Buddhist. This is called Original Research. This is not allowed. (Also: it is common knowledge accepted by everyone that North Korea is an oppressive Communist (atheist) dictatorship that doesn't allow religion. Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 21:40, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Angelo, will you even respond? It appears that whenever the page gets locked you give it up (like in the Religion in China page). Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 05:01, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I am here!

I am not free like you because I must go to work and share time with my family, I can not give a whole day long with Wikipedia. So you say this survey of Shanghai university professors are Original Research (asked random 300 million people about the religions and they found over 200 million adherents of Buddhism with Chinese religions as one and 40 million Christians[9][10]) and you said that is not allowed.

But look at your contributions in not only article but also with other Buddhist articles, you deleted all that high estimates are "Original Research" and you keep the lowest Buddhist estimates as your favorite estimates; it is violated NPOV. An example: you has always keeping the estimates of Chinese Gov. for the numbers of Buddhists, Muslims but you didn't do it with the numbers of Christians in not only China but also in Europe because you still keep higher estimates for the numbers Christians as 40 - 54 million or 3% - 4% (Hey! It's come from the same survey of Shanghai University which you think that is Original Research because it found over 200 million adherents of Buddhism and Chinese religions). Its proofs:

  1. Look at China, Japan and other East Asian countries :

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_religious_populations&diff=193464380&oldid=193449793

  1. You has always reverting the numbers of Buddhists, Taoists or Muslims to the estimates of Chinese Gov. but keep partly biased-Christianity and totally pro-Atheism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Religion_in_China&diff=192445401&oldid=192426371

  1. Another proofs:
  1. And your created map for Major religious groups has banned by its main contributor Jeff3000 because it's not fair, biased, incomplete and confusing. You are still keeping biased opinions for Christians (in the whole Europe and Cuba) or Atheists and let non-Abrahamic religions as Buddhism (East Asia), Hinduism (Suriname) and Chinese religions down. Here are the proofs:
  1. You keep add "Criticism" section into the main article of Buddhism although that section didn't appear in the main articles of Islam, Christianity, Judaism or Hinduism; although Buddhism is the least criticized one. And mostly its important contributors disagree with you about that section:

You could say that Buddhism is not your hateful religion here (on Wikipedia) but in fact, I know that you are extreme hate Buddhism most.

Angelo De La Paz (talk) 18:38, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I know, but its been quite a while since you responded on Talk:Religion in China. How is that Original Research? Its called a source. Angelo, I haven't seen any source for "the estimates of the Chinese government". I've only found many verifiable sources that contradict you. Saying that North Korea is a Buddhist country is like saying that Britain is a Druid country. With the East Asian countries - I've agreed with you on Vietnam, and with Taiwan I think its a Buddhist country, just that its only 30-something% Buddhist. In Japan all of the actual surveys rather than the numbers based on who is registered at a temple or shrine (or an estimate by actual Japanese people) indicate that 30% of the population identify with anyone religion (although some Dentsu company says 50%). This does not mean 85-91% Buddhist. Angelo, giving my links to discussions I remember isn't "proof". With Suriname, it is mostly Christian. The largest group of Christians in the country is Protestant. That is why it is colored Protestant. I have given Buddhism Singapore, Taiwan, Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Burma, Cambodia, Sri Lanka, Mongolia and Bhutan, because there are verifiable sources that suggest that. In the case of China and North Korea, there is not. In the case of Japan, the Japanese people themselves contradict these numbers, and say that its based on the temples' numbers.Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 21:24, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Buddhism, Ancestor Worship are as the most common religions in East Asian culture

Once again, as a Chinese mix and an Orientalist, I were not said that all East Asian countries are Buddhist!; it's clear in Buddhism by country, List of religious populations, Religion in China, Republic of China, etc...But everyone know and respect the fact that is:

  • The mixture of Mahayana Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism and Ancestor Worship as one and it is the predominantly religion in China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, Singapore, Vietnam and among the Han Chinese or Vietnamese communities in Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, USA, Canada, etc
  • The mixture of Mahayana Buddhism, Shinto and Ancestor Worship as one and it is the predominantly religion in Japan.
  • The mixture of Mahayana Buddhism, Confucianism, Shamanism and Ancestor Worship as one and it is the dominantly religion in Korea.

As you can see that Mahayana Buddhism and Ancestor Worship are appear as two most important common parts in all traditional beliefs of various East Asian traditional belief systems. That is why many people in these countries classify themselves as non-religious, although they visit religious temples several times every year. Their everyday behaviours and attitudes are dictated by the synthesis of philosophies which can be traced from many religions. Those religions have been co-existing in mostly East Asian countries for centuries and mixed perfectly with the East Asian tradition of worshiping their ancestors and national heroes. That special mix explains why the people there find it hard to say exactly which religion they belong to.

And that is why I want to keep multiple sources with various estimates (Government's estimates, exact numbers of true followers with cultural influence of these religions) because it could be important to help people know more exact about East Asian culture and the different between the traditional beliefs from the East to the West

Now do you understand, Saim?

Angelo De La Paz (talk) 07:14, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

1. Actually, you did say that all East Asian countries are Buddhist. You said that Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan are over 90% Buddhist, that China and Japan are over 80% Buddhist, that North Korea is over 60% Buddhist, and that South Korea is over 40% Buddhist. That Christian source and Vipassana Foundation are not verifiable. How is it fair to count someone as some religion even if they themselves do not consider themselves part of it? Why do Asians have to be called "Budhist" for stepping into a pagoda, or burning some incense? I could worship Jesus, and still not be a Christian. Why? Well, maybe I just don't want to be called a "Christian". Then, for all intents and purposes, I'm not a Christian for all statistics. Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 20:58, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Couldn't you read? If I were a biased Buddhist so I wouldn't not added this requests before (from August 2007):
  1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Buddhism_by_country#Some_suggestions.21
  2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_religious_populations#Some_suggestions.21

Not all East Asians are Buddhists but if you look again so you could see that although East Asians are agnostics (they worship the mixture of multiple religions as tradtional beliefs and they don't know what are their favorite religions) and the most common religions are Mahayana Buddhism and Ancestor Worship. Even many Chinese people, Vietnamese people are prefer Buddhism to Taoism and Koreans are prefer Buddhism to Confucianism, etc....that is why I have sent my request to admin soon as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Master_of_Puppets#Little_requests

That is clear. You will never listen anyone and I think that you hasn't read the comments because it is NOTHING with you, a vocal Atheist and anti-religious! Angelo De La Paz (talk) 00:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

1. OK, I'm just saying that you are a bit biased towards Buddhism. You say that 90% of some populations are Buddhist, while you lower the number of Muslims on other pages.

2. That may be so, but that is a far cry from being a Buddhist. Do you understand? Preferring Buddhism over other religions doesn't make you a Buddhist, worshiping a Bodhisattva doesn't make you a Buddhist, burning incense doesn't make you a Buddhist and going into a temple doesn't make you a Buddhist. The only way to be a Buddhist is to call yourself a Buddhist. 3. Angelo, distorting facts does not help my agenda at all. Saying "here look, there are more secular people than Buddhists!" is not a valid argument, and I would never use it. So stop saying that I'm using it. Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 06:32, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unprotect

Please un-protect this page, Angelo's basically gone. Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 05:22, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for un-protect page

Can the Admins un-protect the page, there is so much wrong information here that I want to edit, please open the doors of the barriers, Thankyou. Moshino31 (talk) 21:11, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps the admins should simply add a factual accuracy dispute tag. Peter jackson (talk) 10:14, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

The fact is that even "experts", let alone religious propagandists, disagree on numbers of adherents of religions. There are 2 main types of reasons for this:

  1. disagreements on definitions: this covers quite a variety of things:
    1. how to deal with people "belonging" to more than 1 religion: this has been discussed quite a bit above; the general practice of "experts" (whom WP policy requires us to follow, tho' other points of view should be mentioned) is to count most religious Chinese as belonging to something variously called Chinese (folk/traditional) religion; there may well be other experts who disagree
    2. how to deal with nominal adherents: this can be a serious problem in modern secular societies; if you ask people "What is your religion?" you get one set of statistics; if you ask them "Do you have a religion?" you get quite different figures
    3. how to classify fringe sects/cults: eg the World Christian Encyclopedia (which, despite its name, qualifies as a reliable source by WP definition since it's published by Oxford University Press) counts Falun Gong as Buddhist, but separates Soka Gakkai out into a category called New Religions; [11], on the other hand, counts SG as Buddhist, but Falun Gong as part of Chinese religion
  2. disagreements on facts, mainly under Communist oppression, but also regarding claims by Christian churches of the numbers of converts they have made in Muslim countries, in most of which conversion is still a capital offence

The overall result is, as I said, quite a lot of disagreement. This means that any table of adherents giving 1 figure per box is inevitably in violation of NPOV, unless it is accompanied by a variety of similar tables giving other points of view. Alternatively, you could give a variety of figures in one table. In either case this article would have to be many times its present size if it were to satisfy NPOV. Peter jackson (talk) 10:13, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Number of muslims and christians are very inflated

Humanbyrace (talk) 16:35, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

The number of muslims can not exceed 1,1 bln with the highest estimation possible.

Here are the correct number of muslims country by country by a neutral and objectif point of view.(I rejected the ghulat of shia,wahabbi sect,folkloric islam,muslims only by culture,atheistic&agnostic etc etc muslims by culture,and muslims by name[especially in the ex communist satates and muslims in europe,australia and america])


South Asia Afghanistan 30

Southern Europe Albania 1

North Africa Algeria 25

Southern Africa Angola 0,1

South America Argentina 0,1

Oceania Australia 0,1

Central Europe Austria 0,1

Caucasus Azerbaijan 2

Middle East Bahrain 0,5

South Asia Bangladesh 100

Western Europe Belgium 0,1

West Africa Benin 1

Balkans Bosnia and Herzegovina 1

Balkans Bulgaria 0,1

West Africa Burkina Faso 5

Central Africa Burundi 0,1

Southeast Asia Cambodia 0,1

West Africa Cameroon 2

North America Canada 0,1

Central Africa 0,1

Central Africa Chad 3

East Asia China 5

East Africa Comoros 0,1

Republic of the Congo 2

West Africa Côte d'Ivoire 5

Middle East Cyprus 0,1

Western Europe Denmark 0,1

East Africa Djibouti 0,5

North Africa Egypt 65

East Africa Eritrea 2

East Africa Ethiopia 20

Western Europe France 3

West Africa Gambia 1

Caucasus Georgia 0,1

Western Europe Germany 2

West Africa Ghana 2

Balkans Greece 0,1

West Africa Guinea 7

West Africa Guinea-Bissau 0,1

South Asia India 120

Southeast Asia Indonesia 150

Middle East Iran 20

Middle East Iraq 15

Middle East Israel 1

Western Europe Italy 0,1

Middle East Jordan 5

Central Asia Kazakhstan 0,1

East Africa Kenya 1

Balkans Kosovo 1

Middle East Kuwait 1

Central Asia Kyrgyzstan 0,1

Middle East Lebanon 1

North Africa Libya 5

Balkans Republic of Macedonia 0,1

Southern Africa Madagascar 0,1

Southern Africa Malawi 0,5

Southeast Asia Malaysia 10

South Asia Maldives 0,1

West Africa Mali 7

North Africa Mauritania 3

Southern Africa Mauritius 0,1

North Africa Morocco 25

Southern Africa Mozambiq 0,5

Southeast Asia Myanmar 0,1

South Asia Nepal 0,1

Western Europe Netherlands 0,1

West Africa Niger 8

West Africa Nigeria 25

Middle East Oman 2

South Asia Pakistan 100

Southeast Asia Philippines 0,5

Middle East Qatar 0,5

Eastern Europe Russia 5

East Africa Rwanda 0,1

Middle East Saudi Arabia 10

West Africa Senegal 3

West Africa Sierra Leone 1

East Africa Somalia 7

South Africa 0,1

Western Europe Spain 0,1

South Asia Sri Lanka 0,1

North Africa Sudan 15

Middle East Syria 10

Central Asia Tajikistan 3

East Africa Tanzania 4

Southeast Asia Thailand 0,5

West Africa Togo 0,5

North Africa Tunisia 8

Middle East Turkey 50

Central Asia Turkmenistan 0,1

East Africa Uganda 1

Eastern Europe Ukraine 0,1

Middle East United Arab Emirates 1

Western Europe United Kingdom 0,5

North America United States 1

Central Asia Uzbekistan 1

Middle East West Bank and Gaza 2

Africa Western Sahara 0,1

Middle East Yemen 15



TOTAL≈1,100,000,000(1,1 billion)


Christians (same method as muslims)


Asia Central Afganistán 0,1

Balcanes Albania 1

Europa Occidental Alemania 20

África Austral Angola 7

Oriente Medio Arabia Saudita 2

América del Sur Argentina 20

Oriente Medio Armenia 2

Oceanía Australia 10

Europa Central Austria 5

Oriente Medio Azerbaiyán 0,1

Europa Oriental Bielorrusia 5

Europa Occidental Bélgica 6

África Occidental Benin 1

América del Sur Bolivia 7

Balcanes Bosnia 2

África Austral Botswana 0,5

América del Sur Brasil 100

Balcanes Bulgaria 4

África Occidental Burkina Faso 1

África Central Burundi 3

África Occidental Camerún 4

América del Norte Canadá 15

África Central Chad 3

América del Sur Chile 10

Lejano Oriente China 20

América del Sur Colombia 30

África Central Congo 30

Lejano Oriente Corea del Sur 10

América Central Costa Rica 3

África Occidental Costa de Marfil 5

Balcanes Croacia 3

Caribe Cuba 5

Mediterráneo Chipre 0,5

Europa Occidental Dinamarca 3

América del Sur Ecuador 10

África del Norte Egipto 8

América Central El Salvador 5

África Oriental Eritrea 2

Europa Central Eslovaquia 2

Europa Central Eslovenia 1

Europa Occidental España 30

América del Norte Estados Unidos 200

Europa Oriental Estonia 0,1

África Oriental Etiopía 40

Oceanía Fiji 0,1

Sureste Asiático Filipinas 70

Europa Occidental Finlandia 3

Europa Occidental Francia 40

Medio Oriente Franja de Gaza 0,1

África Occidental Gabón 1

África Occidental Gambia 0,1

Medio Oriente Georgia 3

África Occidental Ghana 10

Balcanes Grecia 8

América Central Guatemala 10

África Occidental Guinea 0,5

América del Sur Guyana 0,1

Caribe Haití 6

América Central Honduras 5

Europa Central Hungría 7

Subcontinente Indio India 20

Sureste Asiático Indonesia 15

Medio Oriente Irán 0,1

Medio Oriente Iraq 0,5

Europa Occidental Irlanda 3

Medio Oriente Israel 0,1

Europa Occidental Italia 45

Caribe Jamaica 2

Extremo Oriente Japón 0,5

Medio Oriente Jordania 0,5

Asia Central Kazajistán 5

África Oriental Kenia 20

Medio Oriente Kuwait 0,5

Asia Central Kyrgyzstan 1

Europa Oriental Latvia 1

Medio Oriente Líbano 1,5

África Austral Lesotho 1

África Occidental Liberia 1,5

Europa Oriental Lituania 3

Europa Occidental Luxemburgo 0,1

Balcanes Macedonia 1

África Austral Madagascar 6

África Austral Malawi 7

Sureste Asiático Malasia 3

África Occidental Mali 1

África Austral Mauricio 0,5

América del Norte México 80

Europa Oriental Moldavia 3

África Austral Mozambique 7

Sureste Asiático Myanmar 1

África Austral Namibia 1

Subcontinente Indio Nepal 0,5

Oceanía Nueva Zelanda 2

América Central Nicaragua 4

África Occidental Níger 1

África Occidental Nigeria 50

Europa Occidental Noruega 4

Europa Occidental Países Bajos 8

Subcontinente Indio Pakistán 3

América Central Panamá 2

Oceanía Papúa Nueva Guinea 3

América del Sur Paraguay 5

América del Sur Perú 20

Europa Central Polonia 30

Europa Occidental Portugal 8

Caribe Puerto Rico 3

Europa Occidental Reino Unido 40

África Central República Centroafricana 2

Europa Central República Checa 2

Caribe República Dominicana 7

Balcanes Rumanía 20

Europa Oriental Rusia 80

África Oriental Ruanda 7

África Occidental Senegal 1

Balcanes Serbia y Montenegro 7

África Occidental Sierra Leona 1

Sureste Asiático Singapur 0,5

Medio Oriente Siria 2

África Austral Sudáfrica 30

Subcontinente Indio Sri Lanka 1

África del Norte Sudán 5

Europa Occidental Suecia 6

Europa Occidental Suiza 4

América del Sur Surinam 0,5

África Austral Swazilandia 0,5

Sureste Asiático Tailandia 0,5

Extremo Oriente Taiwán 1

Asia Central Tajikistan 0,5

África Oriental Tanzania 10

Sureste Asiático Timor Oriental 1

África Occidental Togo 1

Centroamérica Trinidad y Tobago 0,5

África del Norte Túnez 0,1

Asia Central Turkmenistán 0,5

Medio Oriente Turquía 0,5

África Oriental Uganda 15

Europa Oriental Ucrania 25

América del Sur Uruguay 2

Asia Central Uzbekistán 2

América del Sur Venezuela 20

Sureste Asiático Vietnam 5

África Austral Zambia 7

África Austral Zimbabwe 8


TOTAL≈1,400,000(1,4billion) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Humanbyrace (talk • contribs) 17:19, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Christianity by country

Next to this list I want to put this template.

==By population==

Christianity by Country
North America
South America
Europe
Middle East
Africa
Asia
Oceania

Full list • Christianity Portal    v • d • e 

===Christians===

Largest Christian populations (as of 2007):

  1. United States 234,889,159
  2. Brazil 169,109,476
  3. Mexico 103,265,846
  4. Russia 98,964,426
  5. Philippines 84,246,490
  6. France 56,709,186
  7. Germany 56,032,677
  8. Nigeria 54,012,466
  9. China 52,874,076
  10. Italy 50,588,528
  11. Ethiopia 47,131,322
  12. D.R. Congo 46,026,058
  13. United Kingdom 43,515,786
  14. Colombia 41,938,720
  15. Ukraine 41,669,876
  16. Spain 38,021,300
  17. Argentina 37,883,811
  18. Poland 36,977,511
  19. South Africa 35,066,269
  20. Kenya 28,792,702


Consensus?--Carlaude (talk) 00:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)