Talk:List of best-selling video game franchises

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the List of best-selling video game franchises article.
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Contents

[edit] Split

[edit] Splitting

We are currently fixing the article. Hopefully it will be solid enough to keep it as a separate entity. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:38, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Overlinking?

Concerning the table, is there really a need to link the name of a franchise in both the "Franchise name" column and the first occurrence in the text? --Silver Edge (talk) 03:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, I was not going to link them, but found out that needed to link it in the Mario and Pokémon franchise since I linked to the franchises in the title, but not in the description itself, and then though to myself "If I don't link them all, someone will come here crying that I did not link their game", and decided to do it afterwards. But yes, it may not be necessary. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] THQ franchises

The Nickelodeon franchise sold 45m, and includes the SpongeBob (which itself sold 20m) and the Avatar one (which sold 4 or 5 millions, can't remember right now the reference). They also state the Disney Pixar franchise sold 30 million, with the Cars selling 8m, The Incredibles 7m, and Finding Nemo 8m. They sure like to make things complex. I have added Cars because they talk about the "Cars franchise", but haven't added the others yet. Maybe we should create another list for franchises that include several different products, like Nickelodeon, Disney, Disney Pixar and Marvel, just as we have the originally bundled games in the other list? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 19:27, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree, since for example, the Marvel franchise's 14.5 million most likely includes the Spider-Man franchise's 8 million. --Silver Edge (talk) 12:05, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

THQ 8K filling states "With three 30-million unit licensed franchises" We have listed Nickelodeon at 45m, Spongebob at 20m and WWE at 31m, however since Nickelodeon includes Spongebob, I wonder if there is a third THQ franchise that may have broken that mark. Apparently they publish Power Rangers games, but haven't found a source with the number of units sold for that franchise. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Never mind, I just noticed the Pixar franchise is also published by THQ, making it the third. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lemmings

I found this report (that is relatively reliable) saying the Lemmings franchise sold approximately 20m in 2003, but the press release we are using now as source from 2005 says 2005. That Gamersmark article also informs about 10m for Donkey Kong Country, which would be a franchise we still don't have in the list (it is included in the Donkey Kong one). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 20:38, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Also this PDF which says 20m as well (page 5). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 20:40, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, since I have found more interviews, I changed it to 20 million. I am guessing the press release was wrong, since the creators are presented as the guys who, besides GTA, created the 20m Lemmings franchise. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Now I am wondering whether to add that DCK thing. The sites has archived news since 2001 (older than Kotaku and Joystiq, for instance), but has a low Alexa ranking. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:04, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bomberman

While new references say it sold 10 million, I found this 2003 Hudson paper where it says it sold 11 million in Japan alone. I am leaving the 10 million one, though, guessing it was a miscalculation (just like the 27-25m for Street Fighter). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 18:33, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Zoo Tycoon

I found this reference that says it sold 6 million. Unfortunately, there is no reliable site for it (it appears it is some kind of template text for the product preview, but there is no formal press release about it). Anyone able to find it? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 20:22, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Not sure, but surely it could be merged into 'rollercoaster tycoon'? Indeed, the whole 'tycoon' series should probably just be merged into one franchise... --129.234.4.10 (talk) 13:28, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
However, they are not the same series, as each is made by a different developer. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 14:08, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gran Turismo: 47m or 50m?

Apparently Sony has problems with their press release: The real driving simulator that's sold 50 million units is back... but the About section reads With more than 47 million units sold worldwide... so which one is correct? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 22:36, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I would say the lower one. I can't now for sure, but I'm going to presume the 50mil is just rounding the number to the nearest 10 million.58.104.3.15 (talk) 05:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Hmm... the UK game blurb says it sold 50 million, and it appears it has sold that many since August 2007, so I am updating this. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 13:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Now their latest press release from March this year says 48 million. Using the Street Fighter precedent, I am reverting to 48m (the 50m could have been a mistake they fixed lately). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 20:38, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Brain Age/Brain Training -- new sales numbers.

"Nintendo Australia's" website says "More than 21 million people globally are training their brains with Brain Training™ and More Brain Training™." If this could be edited into the article, that would be appreciated because I find data in tables difficult to edit. 58.104.3.15 (talk) 05:40, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh, that is nice! I will update the article, thanks! -- ReyBrujo (talk) 16:34, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kingdom Hearts hits 11 million

It has been stated on both IGN and Gamespot that Kingdom Hearts have now shipped 11 million world wide. I think it should probably be updated. [1] [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lionheart08 (talk • contribs) 21:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

That is cool, of course! -- ReyBrujo (talk) 00:47, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Command & Conquer and Street Fighter

Should the references for Command & Conquer (dated December 3, 2007) and Street Fighter (dated September 30, 2007) be switched to one of these sources which cite the same numbers, but at an earlier date. (January 10, 2007) [3] [4] --Silver Edge (talk) 00:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem with those two links is that The Independent picked the numbers from Wikipedia (but didn't mention us, unfortunately). Check here for the archived mention. Just to point out, here is the source they use (the news was published on January 10, 2007). Wikipedia, on the last version of January 4, 2007, had exactly the same list, in the same order. I prefer keeping the existing references than switching to that one. While reliable sources picking from unreliable sources make the information acceptable for Wikipedia standards, I feel as if we will be losing two good references. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Halo Series Doesn't Add up

While I do not have a source to cite or reference (thus why I haven't edited the number myself), according to the list of best selling video games, if you add up the sales of all three Halo games, they equal over 20 million. --Xander756 (talk) 02:02, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

That is expected for most franchises listed here because the references are old (the reference for Halo here is from October 4, 2007, while the Halo 3 sales link is from January 3, 2008. We wait for reliable sources to report franchise sales instead of adding them up. Sometimes this takes time, unfortunately (for example, The Legend of Zelda doesn't include Phantom Hourglass which has sold almost 4 million nor Link's Crossbow Training, while Mario doesn't include the over 5 millions from Super Mario Galaxy. Call of Duty is missing a lot (we have only the North American sales, but we know it sold over 7 million worldwide last year, plus all the sales that hasn't been accounted for since our reference is only for North America), etc. And although Smash Bros. sold combined over 10 million copies, it is not even listed here because there is not a single reliable reference stating it sold that much. Just wait until Microsoft touts the number, they are likely to do by the time Halo Wars is released. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Do you think it would be more beneficial to not require sources for the numbers listed on the franchises page if they can be acquired by combining the sourced numbers from the list of best selling video games? It would solve the franchises numbers being out of date but also still be relying on cited, reliable sources from the other page. --Xander756 (talk) 17:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
As far as I know, we have always used a single reference for franchises instead of adding numbers up, as we would have to do that for every franchise, which would be rather tiresome (imagine with franchises like Madden, where you need to find sales information for 10 or 11 platforms, or with games that report both shipped and sold numbers, or with games that are so broad you cannot determine which individual games are included and which not). My personal opinion is that we keep using just one reference and wait for reliable sources to inform about sales milestones. Remember that according to our policy, Editors should not make the mistake of thinking that if A is published by a reliable source, and B is published by a reliable source, then A and B can be joined together in an article to advance position C. This is a problem in the list of best-selling video games which I am trying not to bring here. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 17:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Format

This format is way too difficult to edit, having to change the numbers of all the games just to move a game or add one. Plus, you'll need to mess with the plain text part and I'm no good at references, so I created 2 of the same site. Help! (And please consider a better format). --haha169 (talk) 01:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey there. The Smash Bros reference doesn't say that number anywhere, so I removed it. And note that we try not to include games that sold more than 5 millions unless the reference notes it is the first game of a franchise.
The format is not ideal, yep, but it is better for the casual reader than a plain list of names and numbers which does not help him know what each game is about. The idea is to delete the plain text list later, but it is kept to edit the references easier. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:14, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh, sorry. I didn't notice that the link didn't say the amount. I went and used the site that they used to reference the other games. Then, I used the figures amounted in List of best-selling video games and added them up. I thought that the references there would be correct, so I didn't bother to look...--haha169 (talk) 05:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Age of Empire

The 2006 article in Forbes about the best selling games state it sold 20 million. However, a newer reference from 2008 said it sold 18 million. Just pointing out for future reference. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 11:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Famicom Mini

Hmm... the 2005 Annual Report from Nintendo (PDF) states that In addition, to commemorate the twentieth anniversary of Famicom, the “Famicom Mini” series, [...] Sales of the entire series exceeded 6 million units worldwide. Should we add the Famicom Mini series to the list? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 19:52, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Since it is a series, it should probably be included; however, if it were included, which title would it use? The North American or European name? --Silver Edge (talk) 03:46, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
It's not really a series, unless you want to count things like Player's Choice as a series too. TJ Spyke 04:44, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Guild Wars

Now that the Guild Wars franchise has reached 5 million in sales,[5] shouldn't it be moved from the List of best-selling video games article to this one? --Silver Edge (talk) 04:08, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. There is a similar discussion at that list right now. I think we should find an old reference with the sales of the original game (when they did not mix the franchise numbers), use it to justify the inclusion there, and then leave the 5m here. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 11:38, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Pac-Man

Shouldn't Pac-Man be in there somewhere? tomtom 20 03 08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tomtomtomabc123 (talk • contribs) 16:59, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Pac-Man is probably the biggest title we are missing. I have tried very hard to find references for old games (I know Breakout sold 10 millions or so, but found sites that are not that reliable), but when talking about Pac-Man, Namco always says it has been played for billions of players, or that it grossed billions of dollars, abut never a single amount. We cannot just add up different Pac-Man titles, nor we can use a single game as reference (for example, the Atari Pac-Man version sold 7 million, but we cannot include it here because the source needs to explicitly say the franchise has sold 7 million, not a single game). I guess it has sold well over 50 million units, to reach the top ten (just like Tetris did), but no reference = no listing. Pity. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:37, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Some of These Are Not True Franchises

You can't list things like Nikelodeon, Marvel, and Disney as franchises...thats too vague. Franchises are specifics; Mario, Mortal Kombat, Halo, ect. You can't just list all nickelodeon based games as a Nickelodeon franchise...if that was the case you could just list all football games as NFL. Its ridicoulous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.104.253.197 (talk) 07:39, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. If you had checked above, you would have found a previous discussion about that. We considered creating a new section for media franchises, but did not do so for lack of more opinions. Also, if EA and TTwo merge and EA begins talking about "Our Football franchise has sold over 100 million units" we would include it here as well. It doesn't matter what _we_ think a franchise is, it only matters what the reference says. For example, Assassin Creed franchise consisted of one game for PS3 and Xbox 360, yet Ubisoft talked about the Assassin Creed franchise. Therefore, even though it had only one game for two platforms, it was right to include it here as a franchise. Pac-Man for Atari sold 7 million, over the 5 million needed to rank here. However, the reference did not talk about the Pac-Man franchise, but instead the Pac-Man game, therefore it cannot be used here. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:41, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Super Smash Bros

I think we should include Super Smash Bros franchise. We have proper references for both the original N64 game and the gamecube game so why can't we have Super Smash bros in the list? - Gartheknight 24/03/08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gartheknight (talk • contribs) 19:43, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

"A sold X, B sold Y, the franchise is made of A and B, therefore the franchise sold X+Y" is considered Synthesis of published material serving to advance a position: "If the sources cited do not explicitly reach the same conclusion, or if the sources cited are not directly related to the subject of the article, then the editor is engaged in original research." Until we find a reliable source that says it sold over 5 million, we cannot include it. I found a blog post that said it sold over 10 millions (duh!), but no reliable site has ever stated "... Smash Bros series/franchise has sold over 10 million units since its first release..." or similar. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
And here I thought it was basic addition. My bad. 00:25, 29 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.120.86.178 (talk)

[edit] Sonic The Hedgehog sales increased

According to http://gamereactor.se/nyheter/13445/Sega+om+Sonic+Unleashed/ Sonic has sold over 50 mil. Could someone who knows how to properly update the article do it? Also the top 10 here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games 87.202.115.17 (talk) 02:44, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Is it a reliable site? Sega.com has press releases stating it sold 45 million only, but none saying it sold 50 million. So, it depends if that site is reliable or not (was that news submitted by a user or an editor of the site?). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:31, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Burnout franchise

Has sold 15 million copies.<ref name="burnout">{{cite web | url=http://www.criteriongames.com/article.php?artID=83 | title=Burnout Paradise cruises to a million units | accessdate=2008-04-05 | publisher=[[Criterion Games]] | date=2008-04-04}}</ref> Moves from 92 to 55. (Was going to add this myself until I saw the sales ranks needed to be changed by hand...) --Tntnnbltn (talk) 13:16, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Nice, thanks! I will update the article immediately. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 17:11, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unreal, 7m, 9,m 11m?

Our current reference says 7 million. The official page says 9 million. And the Interactive Content Exchange site presents the creator as having sold over 11 million. Which one is better? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 18:32, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Where is Super Smash Brothers?

According to several Wikipedia pages, Super Smash Brothers (as a series) has sold over 13 million games. Where is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.75.122 (talk • contribs)

See #Super Smash Bros. --Silver Edge (talk) 05:12, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Guitar Hero franchise - 19m

The 15 million figure for GH franchise is outdated, Activision announced today that "19 million copies of the Guitar Hero franchise sold worldwide."... SeanMooney (talk) 22:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Neat :-) Thanks! -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:32, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I couldn't find the number in their press release, though :-/ -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:37, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] EyeToy games and Buzz!

This source states: "Sales of EyeToy games have now reached 6.7 million, while for Buzz! the figure is 6 million and for SingStar it's 12 million." --Silver Edge (talk) 03:18, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nintendo franchises sales not updated yet?

According to this The New York Times article, collectively Mario, Zelda and Donkey Kong sold 350m units. That means we are missing 50m (I am guessing around 10m for Zelda and the rest for Mario). Nintendo should have updated the numbers at the press room already, but we need to wait until someone reports them. So, pay attention folks! -- ReyBrujo (talk) 02:52, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Plain text

How about moving the plain text list into a subpage of the article /list (plain text)? The majority of readers only really need the tabular format. Anyway, just a thought. MahangaTalk 02:41, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Right now, the idea of the plain text list is to allow easy copy/paste for readers (these lists are used by gaming forums), to keep the references in the list instead of the table (which would make the table slightly harder to read), and to be able to verify the positioning of the games in the table (the list will always have the correct positioning, but the table is manually modified which may introduce errors). If we were to remove the list, it should be put in Talk:List of best-selling video game franchises/list, because we cannot have two articles about the same in the main space. I once asked in the WikiProject about this issue, but nobody replied. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 03:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Formula One franchise

What do you guys think about this as reference for the 6.5m sold for the franchise? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 05:07, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mario Party franchise

In this review it states the franchise sold 7 million (contrary to the current one that says 5 million in US). What people think about the site credibility? -- ReyBrujo (talk) 00:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)