Talk:Jyutping

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[edit] 6-tone or 9-tone?

This article has only listed 6 Cantonese tones in the list. However, in reality, the "1" here should be separated into 1 and 7, "3" to 3 and 8, "6" to 6 and 9, according to the IPA system for standard cantonese. Deryck C. - the very original one

Deryck C. - the esperanza-enriched one 06:31:30, 2005-09-03 (UTC)

Is the so-called IPA system from a dictionary? :-) — Instantnood 10:59, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

Of course. Deryck C. - the very original one

Deryck C. - the esperanza-enriched one 11:12:06, 2005-09-03 (UTC)

For details of Jyutping see the LSHK website [1] (section 5). Many dictionary called their slight-revised standard IPA. I've heard that in real IPA tones are marked by contour, like 55 for the high level tone, 13 for the low rising tone. :-) — Instantnood 11:29, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

But I'm still confused about the 6 v. 9 stuff. Deryck C. - the very original one

Deryck C. - the esperanza-enriched one 09:15:51, 2005-09-04 (UTC)

The most accurate way is to say: "9 tones in 6 distinct tone contours", since tone contours is only a part of tone, ant the coda -p, -t, -k in Cantonese will affect the short falling cadence (頓挫性) in the tone. There's more detailed info about this concpet in the zh version. The LSHK website just give the simplest examples, but not detail definations. Syaoranli 06:34, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The tone table is very confusing as it doesn't show the actual tones as defined for the Jyutping system as shown on the LSHK website. Remember this is not an article about Cantonese romanization in general but about Jyutping. The table should be changed to show the 6 tones of Jyutping. Then you can still say that the 6 tones are a simplifcation and show the table with 9 tones.

I've changed the paragraph a bit to cater for this difference. --Deryck C. 05:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Distinction between jyu- and yu-

I have not read the article, but is there a distinction between initial yu- and jyu-? I'm asking because Yale seems not to distinguish between the two, and the article Cantonese (linguistics) gives Jyut6 jyu5 instead of the Jyutping article's jyut yu. Do 粵 and 語 really begin with different sounds, 粵 /jyːt/ vs. 語 /yː/? If so, why doesn't Yale write yu- for /yː-/ and yyu- for /jyː-/? Wikipeditor 06:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

The IPA /y/ is represented by 'yu' in Jyutping, while the IPA /j/ is represented by 'j' in Jyutping. Therefore, 'jyu' is the correct jyutping representation. --Deryck C. 08:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it was an extremely bad choice for the creators of the Jyutping system to have selected "J" to represent the "Y" sound, as it invariably leads people not familiar with this system to pronounce it as a "J." In German or Swedish people know to pronounce "J" as "Y" but it seems inexcusable for the creators of this system to have built such confusion into their system by making such a poor selection. For this reason I don't favor Jyutping as the standard for Wikipedia. Badagnani 04:55, 12 August 2007 (UTC)