User talk:Jhall1

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a Wikipedia user talk page.

This is not an encyclopedia article or the talk page for an encyclopedia article. If you find this page on any site other than Wikipedia, you are viewing a mirror site. Be aware that the page may be outdated and that the user to whom this talk page belongs to may have no personal affiliation with any site other than Wikipedia itself. The original talk page is located at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jhall1.


Archived messages: /archive Jun,06-Dec,06 /archive Jan,07-Jun,07


Contents

[edit] Cricket Quarterly

John, was that the Rowland Bowen vehicle in the sixties? --BlackJack | talk page 18:46, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Rowland Bowen's Cricket Quarterly ran from 1963 to 1970. I suppose when it expired, the title was up for grabs. Actually I think I remember the one you mean from The Cricketer: small booklet, wasn't it? I certainly don't still have any. --BlackJack | talk page 19:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wisden Trophy

Thanks for the pointer I have made the necessary changes. Monsta666 21:12, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Amateur and professional cricketers

Hi, John. I'll look at it this weekend. There have been professionals since the 17th century. I've never seen this article before and yet it's very old. --BlackJack | talk page 05:03, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stewart Walters

Ah yes. My brain went mad. Sorry I got the categorization wrong, you were right to change it. Thank you. Bobo. 02:28, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bill Alley

You're right: it is confusing. As far as I know, he remained Australian even though he settled at Taunton: certainly his voice was pure Sydney. His (second) wife was English, so that would have given him right of residency even if he stayed Australian. I hadn't seen one of these umpire infoboxes before: I think I'm inclined to alter that rather than the playing one. Shall I go ahead, or do you have views? BTW I quite like doing infoboxes for evenings when my brain isn't sharp enough to do any "proper" writing. So if you've got some cricketers who need them, lob them over and I'll get around to them. Unless, of course, you enjoy doing them too. Johnlp 21:10, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I think an Infobox for Alfred Mynn would be not hugely helpful, because although his batting figures seem fairly well documented his bowling figures are very uncertain. So I'll wait for User:BlackJack to do some research before tackling this one. Johnlp 16:15, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] King of Albania

Isn't there a version of this story that the whole thing was a hoax perpetrated by Ranji, and which Fry believed to be true ? Do you know which is the one preferred by more recent writers ? Tintin 17:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, that looks definite except for the last line that again makes it a little confusing :) Tintin 17:45, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Great work, you guys. I think that part of the problem may also have been Fry's declining mental health in later years. The excerpt seems to make crystal clear that the offer was real. --Dweller 17:50, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wisden Trophy (again)

I've finished with the history of the Wisden Trophy but was wandering if you have any knowledge about the trophy itself. I think the article needs a section on the trophy and any help would be useful. If you are too busy have you got any ideas which books to look at? Monsta666 20:20, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to bother you again but I made a start on the trophy section but feel it is a little sketchy. I've looked at a couple books but to no avail. Do you know anyone that might have the knowledge to expand the section?Monsta666 16:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

My immediate goal is GA, but eventually I would it like the page to reach FA status. I am concentrated on getting it to GA for the time being. Monsta666 17:28, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Do you know any one who would be willing to do a copyedit of the page? Being the author of the page I don't feel I'm the best person to do this. Monsta666 22:24, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the copyedit! Greatly appreciate that. Monsta666 20:11, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Added Trueman's performance have also expanded Sobers' series ,69, four captains, 91 and 94 series. Do you know of any notable feats that are not included in the article? Monsta666 21:13, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DGB

I don't think you'll agree with me, but can you please take a look at Talk:Donald_Bradman#.22Universally_acknowledged.22 :-) Tintin 11:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. It was the same thing that was bugging me too, especially as it was in the first line of the article. Tintin 17:01, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cricketer infobox

Yep, I was aware of the alignment too. Perhaps a rethink, with the four optional columns might be easier because as it stands, I can't set the widths at all. I'm going to experiment with a different column setup and see what happens. –MDCollins (talk) 21:59, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Ralph Barker

And it's surprisingly substantial, given the limited material with which you had to work. Very well done. I'll have a look at my copy of The Picador Book of Cricket tomorrow; I'm sure that Guha affords us a brief sketch of Barker there. 21:31, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry. Robertson-Glasgow 07:49, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket/redlinks

Hi there. Without a doubt I shall attempt to get on with doing the work for some of these very soon if time will let me. However, I must just query one thing. Where Gates (Berkshire cricketer) is mentioned, is this the player to whom you refer? If so, it would seem that he never played for Berkshire in his career, unless Cricket Archive is missing some statistics. Bobo. 21:15, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] John Daniell

Good idea. I've been meaning to do him for a while now: possibly the most influential man in Somerset cricket ever. If I get time this evening I may start it off (unless you've already begun). Johnlp 09:35, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I have got rather bogged down in real life but intend to make progress over the weekend. I actually don't know the Crusoe story you alluded to, so look forward to you inserting that. Kind regards as ever. John Johnlp 22:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sammy Woods

You make a good case for Sammy Woods to be included in the scope of Wikipedia:WikiProject Somerset & I've put it back in. I'm happy to say I was too hasty on this occasion. I have been thinking that in Somerset we need several "top level" articles eg Economy of Somerset, Culture of Somerset etc & was wondering whether you thought "Sport in Somerset" (covering cricket, football, etc) along the lines of Sport in Leeds might be possible or worth doing? or it could be part of Culture in... eg Culture of Bristol. Any thoughts?— Rod talk 18:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wisden trophy again again

Perfect! Thank you! Carre 19:30, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Your idea about specifying the relevant Wisden books sounds good but I am unsure how to implement your idea, any pointers? Monsta666 16:12, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Carre suggested idea works but there is one snag, I don't know what page numbers to put. Without page numbers I'm not sure if it worthwhile to add book references.Monsta666 10:45, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

What would I do without you? Thanks alot for that! Monsta666 14:02, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Duffus

I hadn't known till yesterday that he was a first class cricketer. Tintin 16:59, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

And of course, thanks in advance :-) Tintin 17:11, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Tintin 05:27, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History of cricket in Zimbabwe from 1992 to 2006

Done. I originally intended to end it after the last meaningful domestic season but the last couple of Test series then got tagged on. Thanks for reviewing it as otherwise I might have moved on and not seen it. BlackJack | talk page 07:11, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WG Grace

Hello there and thank you for your message.

I think a limit of one tribute only should be quoted or there could be an endless list of them. I think the tribute has to come from as eminent a source as can be found. Beyond A Boundary has few if any peers in the annals of cricket literature and the fact that James must have been, so to speak, diametrically opposite WG adds considerable weight to his very positive view of WG.

I do not disagree with Wynne-Thomas' words. It is simply that Beyond A Boundary has infinitely greater merit as a source than a collection of statistical trivia. It is a case of doing justice to the subject. I would do the same if seeking a worthy tribute for Bradman, Trumper, Hobbs, Rhodes, Sobers, etc. Kind regards. Fiddlers Three 06:07, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1801-1815

I agree that the overseas references shouldn't really be there. My notes again! They are included in relevant articles under those countries. Can't decide what to do with the list of matches which is a hangover from the former 1811-1815 article: there are too many in 1801-10 for a list within the article and the contents would be controversial in view of Britcher. --BlackJack | talk page 22:50, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] C. W. Alcock

Sorry, I didn't remove the eng-cricketbio template. The decision is decided by the AWB, using wikipedia's criteria(articles which have over 5000 bytes are seen as non-stub). There is another way to state it is a stub, such as stating that it is a stub in the talk page, but not placing a template there. But I would not revert your contribution because I just clean it up by a machine. Raymond Giggs 13:06, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Ashes

The Ashes has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Altham

Altham alone published the original book (to 1914) in 1926. A second edition by himself and Swanton was published in 1938, the third in 1947 and the fourth in 1948.

In 1962, volume 1 (sic) was published with Altham as sole author.

As the one I possess is the 1962 volume 1, I'll change the entry in my list to read:

  • H S Altham, A History of Cricket, Volume 1 (to 1914), George Allen & Unwin, 1962

I don't actually have the Swanton edition. --BlackJack | talk page 21:29, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the context of this, but I have the Swanton edition. Cheers, Robertson-Glasgow 11:22, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kortie

You're right. We don't have any evidence of that tale, and your point shrouds it in more than enough doubt. That said, we could always just add a note to that effect. By the way, who was the bowler who once sent a beamer into the stands? Robertson-Glasgow 23:24, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

A.A. Thomson's Cricket My Pleasure recounted the Kortright story, and the beamer one most certainly did happen. I'll try to find a definite source for it. Robertson-Glasgow 10:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
We are talking about ostensibly the fastest bowler who ever played the game here, so I think it quite possible. If I spot anything more corroboratory -- as you know, I'm immersed in a never-ending study of the era --, I'll add it to the article. Cheers, Robertson-Glasgow 11:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Found it, with the man himself my source: "My favourite story is hard to believe, but I vouch for its truth. Playing in a club match at Wallingford on a very small ground with a pitch best described as 'sporty', I bowled a ball which rose almost straight and went out of the ground without a second bounce. I suggest that this made me the first man to bowl a six in byes!" Cheers, Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 01:41, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Gerald Howat

Please could you give me some idea of why you think that the article requires clean-up? I had fondly imagined that I had produced a reasonsbly good article, had gone to some trouble to provide working links wherever possible, and was a little surprised to find that it had been tagged within about two minutes of my creating it. JH (talk page) 17:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

It was only in my opinion! But no problem, I'll do it now. I'll remove the tag afterwards. Regards, Rudget Contributions 18:18, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Y Done Rudget Contributions 18:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jack Meyer

I'll give it a go, but I'm rather conscious that I still need to do some proper work on John Daniell. I very rarely get more than a few minutes to do anything these days... Johnlp 21:41, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll make haste slowly. BTW, I see you've been having a chat about Charles Jesse Kortright. There is a citation for the Wallingford incident on page 15 of a 1983 book called The Cricketer Book of Cricket Disasters and Bizarre Records, edited by Christopher Martin-Jenkins and published by Century Publishing (ISBN 07126 0191 0). I have to say that I don't believe it's possible, but on the basis that Wikipedia is about things that are verifiable, not necessarily things that are true... The same book (page 23) says, of the early 19th century cricketer George Brown of Brighton, that "in a practice match he bowled a ball which beat the batsman, wicketkeeper and longstop and headed straight for a dog beyond the boundary. The owner of the dog tried to stop the ball with his coat but it smashed through it and killed the dog." Johnlp 21:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I've made some progress on the Jack Meyer article, but need some help on the Millfield side and with any verifiable anecdotes. I tidied up some of Colin Atkinson too. Johnlp (talk) 00:13, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your kind words and the tidying. I must get back to John Daniell... soon. Bit busy IRL this week. Johnlp (talk) 21:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
JM is on DYK today. :-) Johnlp (talk) 11:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Altham's book

Brave call, but I agree. Going by the standards of cricket literature, 'twas incredibly dull. But please don't try reading it from cover to cover (as I somehow did); its purpose is strictly referential. Robertson-Glasgow 00:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

By the way, do you know anything about Harry East? I've a slim volume bearing his name called Cricket is for Fun and am absolutely loving it. I might go so far, indeed, to put him right up there with Cardus and Thomson if I find any more of his work. Cheers, Robertson-Glasgow 01:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I shall let Mr East himself do the talking, with a random excerpt from Cricket is for Fun: "The modern umpire, in his white cap, and natty, short, hip-slinky white coat has become a symbol of science. He makes no reply to an appeal and raises his index finger delicately and demurely to give a batsman out, believing it his duty to abase himself almost to a cipher.
"It was not so in days of yore. Then the umpire knew he was not a mere adjunct to the game. He was the apex, the great arbiter; he was, on the cricket field, God himself for the duration of a Saturday afternoon. Authoritative and majestic, in a white coat as long as a bridal gown and proud as the bride herself as she walks up the aisle, he strode to the middle." Robertson-Glasgow 10:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Here's an East piece on Peate that was sent to me recently: "A master of length and flight, he could pitch and float the ball to his whim, luring the adventurous to catastrophe, blandly coercing the hesitant and timorous to their doom.
"Immediately he took his place among the leading bowlers in the land. Ninth in the first-class bowling averages in 1879, fifth in 1880, by 1881 he was the leading wicket-taker in England, and, in 1882, with 214 wickets he had almost 100 more than his nearest rival. So it continued - 120 in 1883, 137 in 1884, 115 in 1885.
"And that, practically, was the end of Ted's career. Throughout this time he had kept Bobby Peel in the second team. As soon as Ted was dismissed, Peel became an England bowler. He could also score 1,000 runs a year. He was less than a year younger than Peate, but, with all his skill, which many said was equal to Wilfred Rhodes's, Peel had to play second fiddle to Peate while he was available.
"In those days W. G. Grace was the scourge of the country, a Goliath of power flaunting his mastery proudly as ever did the champion of Gath over the Valley of Elah. His challenge was there for everyone who dare to accept. Thoughtfully Peate took it up.
"This was in the halcyon days before we were bedevilled with new ball theories. Scarlet or mud-caked, glossy or battered, a cricket ball was a cricket ball. Peate took it at the start of the match, trusted to his good left arm, tossed it gently toward the Doctor's bat, and -
1879 Bowled Peate 13
1881 Bowled Peate 8
1882 Bowled Peate 0
1885 Bowled Peate 1
1886 Bowled Peate 9
were some of Grace's innings against Yorkshire.
"The Doctor suffered neither fools nor masters gladly. The thirst for revenge had bitten deep into his soul. In 1887, when Peate did not play, his four innings against Yorkshire were 183 not out, 97, 92 and 20." Robertson-Glasgow 18:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 9 November 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Gerald Howat, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Cheers, Daniel 23:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tom Clark (cricketer)

I can be a bit overenthusiastic sometimes, although having new pages highlighted in yellow has helped speed things up quite a lot.

Thanks for the advice on dates, by the way. I must confess that I didn't know what the rules are as regards this, so have just been following everybody else's example up until now. I think I'll have to take a look at the guidelines. :) Cheers Paul20070 (talk) 11:34, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] William Yardley (cricketer)

Not a problem. Incidentally, I couldn't find any evidence of a place called 'Altoment' in Mumbai, and wondered how accurate the cricinfo/archive was. There was one called 'Altamont Road'(?) I think, so it may have been that. It made me wonder that if it wasn't a major suburb, is it important enough to put here. Some thoughts anyway. –MDCollins (talk) 23:40, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jack Phillipps

That's the one. I would say that he was a notable administrator and should have an article but it's one for further discussion. --Bart | talk page 11:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Robert Robinson

Yes, thanks very much, and that's the value of someone reviewing it. I copied the paragraph from Scott and obviously started editing it but didn't finish. In too much of a hurry and late for a haunting, no doubt! --The Ghost | séance 19:11, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1948 series

Minor point. Need to add a note in the Leeds report that the crowd broke the record that is mentioned in the writeup for Lord's . Tintin 13:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

That a record crowd of 1,58,000 attended the match can be found easily enough in the match report in Wisden [1]. I think the record sections of the latest Wisdens mention that this is *still* the record for a Test in England. IMO, it is this fact that should be cited, but I am in a situation where I am away from my books for a few days. Tintin 14:18, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gerald Howat

Hi, thank you for your message. However, I disagree with your statement. You can see my links/citations in the discussion section where I point out that the term is usually referred to another school in Scotland. TheAsianGURU (talk) 08:20, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. The term comes up more often than usual since Tony Blair. So maybe it's time for a wiki page on the term itself? Thanks for understanding again. TheAsianGURU (talk) 08:21, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rugby School

A fair point but I think you're slightly premature. I've only covered the 18th century so far and the Arnold era at Rugby was somewhat later – in the 1830s, if memory serves. Bear with me as I haven't got that far yet.  :-) Regards. --The Ghost | séance 19:17, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] William Denison

Thanks for your additions to this. I've been poring over a memory-guzzling thing I found on the internet which is supposed to be about his writing but I gave up. Did you know he was into soccer as well and helped create a Surrey FC around the time that the famous Sheffield FC was founded? He was also involved with the All-England Eleven at its outset, having got into cahoots with Clarke, so I think there might be some mileage there. --The Ghost | séance 19:41, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gerania

I've found a reference for this story in a history of 100 years of first-class cricket in Bath: unfortunately, the story appears not to be true. The original seems to have been a Cardus piece in Playfair Cricket Monthly about 40 years ago! Anyway, I'll tap it into the machine later today (or tomorrow) and then paste it here. Maybe we can then jointly decide whether the story is too good to omit, or too unlikely to include. Johnlp (talk) 11:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Here's the story as told by Cardus in 1967. It makes you realise just how much Cardus "overwrote" things: could have been told in half the length. I've kept in all his punctuation etc etc, but there are probably some typos of my own.
“In the 1920s, Yorkshire, playing Somersetshire at Bath, were determined, in the last overs of the game, not to win a first innings decision. At this period in cricket’s history, an outright win was worth five points. In drawn games, the side leading on the first innings scored two points. Matches in which no result on the first innings was arrived at had no bearing at all on the Championship. The scoring was reckoned on the percentage of points obtained to points obtainable. Obviously, if rain prevented play at a game’s beginning, limiting the issue to a first innings’ decision, percentage could suffer if two points were gained out of a ‘possible’ five. (The system was unfair because weather frequently did not allow time or scope for the winning of five points.)
“So, at Bath, Yorkshire obstinately declined to score and pass Somersetshire’s first innings’ total. The time of the afternoon reached five minutes to six – five minutes before close of play. Emmott Robinson was the obstructive force at one end of the wicket, in his broadest pads. Somersetshire in those days was one of the country’s – nay, the nation’s – great humorous assets. John Daniell was captain, and amongst his co-laughers and practical jokers were Robertson-Glasgow (of everlasting and affectionate memory) and M.D.Lyon. The grim intention of Yorkshire not to score and win on the first innings, this late summer day at Bath, was too much for the comic imagination of Daniell. With only time for the bowling of two overs, he claimed a new ball. Yorkshire would take the lead (first innings) if they scored eight more runs – and lose precious percentage. Daniell gave the new ball to Robertson-Glasgow, perfect instrument in this gorgeous leg-pull of Yorkshire. He at once bowled four byes right down the leg-side, wide of Emmott’s pads, right down to a bank of geraniums in front of the pavilion. Emmott was in high dudgeon,’Ah’m surprised at you, Dr Glasgow, usin’ new ball that way’. And Robertson-Glasgow, who never missed a cue, retorted, ‘That comment Emmott, coming from one who knows all, and more than all, of the uses and abuses of new ball manipulation, touches me sorely’. But Daniell, standing at mid-off and wearing an ancient brown ‘trilby’ hat, cried out, ‘Well bowled, Crusoe. Now – four more gerania!’ And again, Robertson-Glasgow sent the new ball fast down the leg-side into the flower-bed – four byes and four more ‘Gerania’; and Yorkshire won on the first innings and suffered serious hurt to their Championship percentage and prospects. Here was a classic example of Gamesmanship of wit and picturesque vocabulary – ‘Four more Gerania, Crusoe,’ a saying as well worth preserving historically as Nelson’s ‘Kiss me, Hardy’.”
The story as told is certainly not true. I've been through all the Somerset/Yorkshire games where Daniell played and none of them remotely match up to the description, and none of them were at Bath between 1913 (heavy win for Yorkshire and Daniell had handed over the Somerset captaincy that year to Massey Poyntz anyway) and 1927 (so ruined by rain that not even one innings was completed). I'll have a look to see if anything else matches at least some of the particulars. Johnlp (talk) 15:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
I've been through every game played by Robertson-Glasgow for Somerset, and none of them fit. Also prewar games where first innings points mattered played by Daniell and only this one fits the bill in any respect. I think the story is probably entirely apocryphal... but as it's in published material, and gets over the essential flavour of Daniell, perhaps we should find a way to incorporate it. Johnlp (talk) 20:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
I've updated the Daniell piece with this and another story, and will do some more substantial stuff about his cricket career later. Best wishes for 2008 to you. Johnlp (talk) 19:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree about the rugby. I did put a note on the rugby project's discussion page a few months back, but got no response. If we sometimes think cricket is shambolic in terms of the organisation of its historic resources, I think it's nothing compared to rugby, where genteel and well-intentioned amateurism appears to have been de rigueur until very recent times. And, like you, I have no interest in the sport. Johnlp (talk) 19:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Michael Parkinson

Is this the same person who wrote Cricket Mad ? Tintin 18:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Tintin 19:40, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] George Freeman

Aside from his popular renown as a comic book artist and guitarist, George Freeman was also a bloody good cricketer. In fact, some elderly fat man, sporting a massive beard and over 54,000 first-class runs, actually dubbed him "the greatest fast bowler I've met". Wikipedia, however, hasn't yet afforded him an article. Shall I unleash myself? Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 01:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Strike that; I've found him. He wasn't on on the disambiguation page. Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 01:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Earl of Sussex &c.

Very interesting information, John. Can you leave it with me and I'll get back to you about it in due course. Regards. --The Ghost | séance 17:31, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sir Robert Paston

That's excellent, John. I followed the link back to the Richmond Green stub that I began with a few notes from Waghorn in 2005 and I cannot believe how it's grown! Everything seems worthwhile. It's like being in the garden and watching things grow from seed to full bloom (not that I'm in the garden right now, or even lately, you understand!). The Paston article is great. It never occurred to me to investigate who he was. --The Ghost | séance 20:46, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Variations in first-class cricket statistics

Well spotted. That was my mistake when I copied and pasted as I intended to keep the first sentence. I've reinstated it now. Thanks very much. --The Ghost | séance 22:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] British Bridge

Well, thank you! My aim at present is to write short biogs of the old school; most of them will be people I've kibitzed, played against or otherwise knew as live personalities. I've just found my copy of Guy Ramsey's Aces All, which is rather anecdotal, but does have some facts I missed. I agree the Gold Cup is important, not least because it is the only competition that links GB through the decades, with the exception of international sides in European and World Championships. I'm afraid it'll have to wait! Regards, Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:23, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Raymond Brock

Sad to hear, though I didn't know him well. Yes, please go ahead and do a biog for WP. He's certainly worth it. Macdonald-ross (talk) 12:36, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks good! Now my advice would be to aim for a photo or two (maybe e-mail Sally Brock, who might also have info to add to the text). A WP photo has to be public domain; that would require Sally's permission for any photo taken privately and in her possession; her agreement would have to include a willingness for the public rights its appearance on WP would entail. That just means anyone can use it subsequently. Portraits taken by professional photographers or agencies are generally out of bounds. See Commons:First steps for more info. Excuse me if you know all this! Regards, Macdonald-ross (talk) 13:04, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Contract bridge

It's included on the basis of being a recognized sport as per Olympic sports#Recognized sports. If it is no longer considered a recognized sport, then I clearly have no objection to seeing the tag removed and that mention removed from that page. If it still is a "recognized sport", then it might be a good idea to let the tag remain, as all the other "recognized sports" were tagged as well. John Carter (talk) 18:39, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Raymond Brock

Ahhh...the magic of Special:Newpages. Kakofonous (talk) 19:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Albert Craig

Many thanks. I'll devour that. Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 23:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re Lobby

Thanks for the appreciation - I should be glad to see any enhancements - regards Motmit (talk) 10:32, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

He wouldn't be his father because of age etc. I don't think I could even establish that he was his grandfather, although they were connected somehow. Regards Motmit (talk) 11:34, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
He won a scholarship to Eton (prep school records) so it seems unlikely he would have then gone to Shrewsbury, but I was unable to check the Eton register for him so I can't absolutely confirm it. Regards Motmit (talk) 16:35, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Brilliant - Don't know how I missed that. Motmit (talk) 17:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
When I did the DefSort I put him in as "de Lob..". This has the effect of listing him separately at the end of categories. He should not be capitalised as "De Lob" but perhaps he could be "Lob...., S de " what do you think? Motmit (talk) 08:56, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Accent - thats a hard one - I think he was pretty Anglicised and even the Canada article has no accent. Being grave rather than acute it is not so vital to the pronounciation though I think I recall hearing the correct stress being put on it by those who knew him. I suspect some people liked to be pedantic about it in print (cricinfo link Arlott) even if he was not himself - which I do not know. Motmit (talk) 10:41, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Book titles

My reply is on my talk page. Regards Macdonald-ross (talk) 18:59, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Division of labour

At present I'm planning to do British bridge players who are well & truly dead. However, I see a few are on your 'to do' list, such as Buller and Jeremy Flint. Can I pursuade you into a division of labour, whereby you do the living, and I do the dead? Of course, we can both comment on the other's work, that's taken for granted. If not, I'll keep off those you list. I'm fortunate to have an extensive bridge library, without which I would know little about Buller, Beasley, Lederer, &c. I'm planning to collect some out-of-copyright photos of the old guys, which should liven up the articles. Best wishes, Macdonald-ross (talk) 19:25, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jeremy Flint

Some twerp has marked the Flint stub for deletion on the grounds that he's not significant enough to appear in WP!! But you can vote on it in WP:Articles for deletion/Jeremy Flint. Macdonald-ross (talk) 17:01, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Flint/B.A./Ely

See reply on my talk page. Macdonald-ross (talk) 18:27, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The 1902 Australians

Gosh. That is a huge amount of work and really well done. You've set a standard here that the rest of us will have to try to live up to. Johnlp (talk) 19:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Priday?

You might consider doing Tony Priday when you need a break from cricket. I think I'm going to do Nico Gardener and Victor Mollo; Fritzi Gordon is also a must. Regards, Macdonald-ross (talk) 19:23, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

And a good start, too! However, I'm not so sure I'd describe his partnership with Rodrigues as successful, considering the low ratio of wins in the European Championship. I suppose the truth is that with the deaths of Konstam, Dodds, Harrison-Gray, Meredith and the sidelining of Reese and Schapiro, we entered a phase of decline from which we have not yet emerged. The strongest card-player of the 1970s and 80s, Martin Hoffman, played almost no international bridge. Other first-rate players such as Forester, Robson and Irving Rose didn't seem to do as well as we had hoped. Macdonald-ross (talk) 15:28, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

A person can fit into more than one category: see thoughts on my talk page. Macdonald-ross (talk) 15:21, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Swanton

Only put that in because the profile on Cricinfo said it... I guess Cricinfo's errors strike again! I think I'll get rid of that now. AMBerry (talk | contribs) 19:08, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of works by cricket historians and writers

Some books/writers don't sound famous, and some are not mainstream enough to deserve an entry (Wilson - intro to Waghorn, for example).

  • Arlott - do we need such a long list ?
  • Armstrong - Shield - haven't heard of this; notable ?
  • ACS books - do we need the fc matches list ? May be because the title specifically mention historians ?
  • Fyzul Hassanali - who is this ?
  • Martin Wilson - index to Waghorn
  • Samuel Goud - the article calls him a SF writer. Are these book significant ?
  • For Woodcock and Wright, we should have some proper books instead of these.

Since the scope is huge, we have to put some filter somewhere, or split into many articles. Tintin 01:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Shusha Guppy

Dear JH, thank you very much for your kind note. Did you know that Shusha is terminally ill? I know this through her valedictory Comment in The Guardian of 18 February; in the event that you have not read this Comment, whose title is A paean to kingship, here is the link: [2]. You may also wish to watch this short video of her, talking about Omar Khayyam: [3]. I am deeply saddened by Guppy's misfortune of having to leave this world so relatively early in her life.

Thank you also for your kind sentiments concerning my second thoughts about leaving Wikipedia. Although I am apparently back, I have as yet not made my mind as to whether I shall stay; consequently, when I am visiting Wikipedia, I do that by a deep sense of guilt for violating my own previous statement. I any case, at present I am doing some research on the life of Ali-Akbar Dehkhoda (have collected and read a great deal of historical documents) and hope to write a proper Wikipedia biography for him before long — his present Wikipedia biography is one of the worst to my best judgement. Independent of whether I shall stay in the long run, I believe that humanity in general and Iranians in particular are greatly indebted to him for his most selfless services to democracy during one of the most crucial periods in the modern history of Iran (i.e. during and after the Constitutional Revolution of Iran); I hope that my biography of him will shed some light on some of his most remarkable services which are not touched upon even in his biography in Encyclopaedia Iranica. Of course, he also gave Iranians the equivalent of Oxford English Dictionary, which on it own is deserving of the highest praise.

Yours sincerely, --BF 22:02, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

ps: My apologies! I just noticed (re-reading your note) that you did know about Shusha's cancer. --BF 22:08, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your second message. --BF 22:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History of English cricket to 1696

My pleasure. Or at least I think it is my pleasure. I only came on here to look at coverage of Hadlow Cricket Club and found it had been flagged for citations. I was able to supply those and then I made the fatal mistake of clicking on the links..... Not sure how long I will be here but it is interesting and I am learning things too. Kind regards. --Jim Hardie (talk) 07:11, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sang versus Sung

Dear JH, according to OED, sung is the "archaic & non-standard" past tense of sing; sang, on the other hand, is the standard past tense. I do realise that your change of sang into sung may aim to refer to the past participle of sing, with the associated auxiliary verb removed for conciseness. Perhaps you may wish to reconsider your change (I shall not touch it). Kind regards, --BF 13:01, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification. --BF 18:26, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re:England, My England

I am very sorry that happened. It was not my intention to do that. I think I had it highlighted when I pasted my tag into it. I have reverted it back to the previous edit. Thank you for pointing it out to me. All apologies. Golgofrinchian (talk) 07:21, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No longer stubs

Henry Beasley, Rixi Markus, Boris Schapiro, Terence Reese and Paul Stern are no longer stubs, but have not been assessed yet. The first four I can't do since I'm responsible for too much of the content; someone else has to do those... Paul Stern we have both contributed too much, perhaps, to make the judgement.

I would think these are, variously, in the Start or B classes. I am gradually going to add more photos, but I doubt if anyone can find much more on Beasley. Regards, Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:01, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] JimBakken becomes fieldgoalunit

Please see Golden Age article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fieldgoalunit (talk • contribs) 10:54, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] cricket book list

Martin Wilson's book is regarded as an invaluable tool by Historians The ACS match lists are required reading when compiling averages etcFieldgoalunit (talk) 10:57, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ikey Hodgson

Know anything about this guy? According to the Yorkshire Post, he was better than all of Peate, Peel, Rhodes and Verity. 'Twould be nice if his article could be improved to reflect that. Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 23:00, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't be so quick to write him off. The Yorkshire Post piece was a recent one, not the idle musings of some nostalgic Victorian. Harry East gives a sorcerous chapter to Ikey in Laughter at the Wicket, while Richard Daft saw much of him in Wilfred Rhodes. His second-rate first-class record is easily explained by the fact that he played very little of first-class cricket, opting instead to follow Clarke's All England XI around the country and feature (always at twenty-two) in local twenty-twos. I shall try to twinkle some information out of RH, who, according to a recent trawl through Google Groups, mentioned him in lofty terms last year. Cheers, Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 09:26, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
You misunderstand me. Ikey played for the village hacks, not against them. His wickets, being those of the All England XI, were far from cheap, and certainly nowhere near as easily begotten as Clarke's.
I hate the idea of Ikey being the finest left-arm spinner who ever tweaked a cricket ball. I am a massive fan of Ted Peate.
Did you read the Harry East article? Best, Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 05:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, that struck me, too, but there seems little doubt that Ikey merits a rather more substantial article than the one that he has at present.
What did you dislike about East's prose? I rather enjoyed the fluid mixture of Cardus's pontifical eloquence and Thomson's genial wit. Yours, Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 01:21, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I see that you've already done some work on the article. His dates of birth and death ought to be in
Done.
and the stuff about the other Isaac Hodgson ought to be hived off into a seoarate article, with just a standard dab message at the start of the xcricketer's article.
Dab message?
As to East's prose, he strikes me as striving too obviously to mimic Cardus, and to never use a short word if he can find a long one.
I'm gutted! And Frithy would be, too. We have often joked about starting a Harry East Appreciation Society. His expressive prose takes some getting used to, but it really is nothing like Cardus. In true Bible-bashing spirit, I'll send you something later today in an attempt to convert you. Best, Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 12:25, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Boris/Nicola

Boris: Both claims are essentially correct; the butcher refers not really to him but to the fact that his family owned a wholesale meat/butchery business when the horse-trading slackened off.
It does seem that Boris hosted at various casinos in the period after 1965. The baccarat I know to be true: I saw him do it, and also, meeting a friend in a London casino, I discovered Boris hosting the Kalooki (a rummy-type game greatly favoured by Jewish housewives). Kalooki has no WP article, incidentally.

Nicola is a thoroughly nice person, and a top-class player. However, personally, I will go for Fritzi Gordon as our best-ever female player. And Sir Jack Hobbs to open the batting in my dream team... Best wishees, Macdonald-ross (talk) 13:29, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wisden COTY

Yeah, you're certainly right - it's a footnote for me at the moment. I'm working more on the formatting at the moment... I'll take it into account for sure. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and in a few days time you'll see this list back at WP:FLC again so any comments you have, either now, or then, are very welcome! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, of course. Lists should be in natural chronological order and this one will be no different. It's easier for me to work in sections as it allows other editors to work in parallel... All the best! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Earl of Sussex

Hello again. The sources are somewhat inconsistent here. As you say, Harry Altham calls him Thomas Dacre which is strictly speaking an error, though I daresay he was unofficially called that. In two more books, he is called Thomas Lennard in one and simply the Earl of Sussex in the other.

There are redlinks on the Baron Dacre and Earl of Sussex pages which I have made consistent and I have then added this link to the early cricketers list. I will add him to my to-do list also.

The Earl of Sussex title is quite confusing with three re-creations from 1644 to 1717. It looks as if Lennard died in 1715 without a successor. A new Earl was created in 1717 and the Dacre baronage was held in abeyance for many years. Best wishes. --Jim Hardie (talk) 05:59, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello again. I found this page which says Lennard was the 1st Earl of Essex! Having looked at Earl of Essex and elsewhere, this is clearly an error. Hopefully his dates of birth and death are correct. I am going away for a few days but I will be back. Best wishes. --Jim Hardie (talk) 20:57, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Hello, John. I hope you're well. I just left a message for our friend here and spotted the posts about Dacre on his page. Once again, you've done some sterling research that I'll make good use of! I think I must have got his (wrong) name from Altham. I shall give credit where it is due. --BlackJack | talk page 20:36, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Alresford

I am baffled! I changed that article in the same way as the others I have been working on and it has not altered. I wonder if I previewed it and then went away from it, thinking I had saved it? No matter. Thank you for pointing out the omission and I will add it back into my to-do list.

What I call a "default list" of references are fine for "the bigger picture" but are non-specific and too vague. As you have pointed out, the Ashley-Cooper work covered 1742 to 1751 only and I doubt if there is a mention of Alresford in any source at that time. I am trying to improve the articles in terms of quality, especially by making them compliant with WP:CITE and WP:NPOV, although I have rarely had to invoke the latter in the early cricket articles. The articles are well written apart from the lack of inline citations and one frequently recurring little trait which is the phrase "we know that..." – this gets my goat! ;-)

Best wishes and thank you again for your diligence. --Jim Hardie (talk) 06:20, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hugh Trumble

As someone who admired your work on Australian cricket team in England in 1902, I am wondering if you would be interested in taking a look at the Hugh Trumble article. It is currently listed at Wikipedia:Peer review/Hugh Trumble/archive1 and any ideas you have to improve the article would be much appreciated. Cheers, Mattinbgn\talk 21:44, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tate nick

Just saw your revert. Is it common enough to be put at the very beginning ? Tintin 01:36, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

But IMHO, it should be used in instances where the person is known by his nickname and not his given name - George Oswald Browning "Gubby" Allen, Bryan Douglas "Bomber" Wells etc. It should not be used even when the nickname is famous - introducing SMG as Sunil Manohar "Sunny" Gavaskar isn't right because he is usually called Sunil Gavaskar. A Bill "Tiger" O'Reilly may be just about okay. I guess Tate is "Maurice Tate" far more than "Chubby Tate" and so Chubby should be demoted to later in the intro or into the main text. Tintin 09:00, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Moved it to the second paragraph. Tintin 01:55, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jim Laker

I cut 'n' pasted that quote from the obit penned by John Arlott. It could only have meant "buzz". I'm off to change it now. Cheers, Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 09:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

Cricket barnstar
John Hall is awarded this barnstar for his excellent work in documenting cricket history. He deserves particular recognition for his research, often turning up additional details that greatly enhance the quality and integrity of the project. Well done. --BlackJack

[edit] Re: Ranji Hordern

Odd, that. I recall seeing Palmer described as a leggie in numerous contemporary sources. Presuming that my erratic memory is not pulling another Bedser-Tate schtick, that would seem to dispel the notion that Hordern was even the first successful Aussie leggie. I shall do some digging. Regards, Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 09:45, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

It will no doubt amaze you to know, then, that I recently came by a claim (from no less a luminary than Lord Hawke) that Palmer beat Bosanquet to the googly. My mind being elsewhere, I failed to get at that above, thus confusing us both. Perhaps Henderson has a point? Most genially yours, Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 10:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Hawke seemed pretty certain -- he played with both Palmer and Bosanquet, so he had every right to be -- and added the authenticity-amplifying detail that the googly was responsible for the destruction of Palmer's shoulder in 1886. I have not mentioned this before, by the way. You are thinking of my Cooper hypothesis. Fullest, Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 10:36, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
You know, the devil's-advocate approach that you have taken to taking to all my wistful bouts of iconoclasm is highly annoying -- if, I suppose, only natural. I hereby vow to dedicate the remainder of my existence to proving this likely-fallacious theory. Ever, Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 21:38, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry. That last message was meant to be jocose. I suppose it came out the wrong way because I started it in a happy mood and, following a local crisis, finished it in a dark one. There is absolutely nothing about you that I find annoying.
You will doubtless be pleased to know that one Gideon Haigh is in full agreement with you on the Palmer matter, and that, between the two of you, you have convinced me that something rather more substantial is needed if I am to hail this as evidence that Bosanquet had a predecessor.
Apologetically,
Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 08:30, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Howard Marshall (broadcaster)

Ooops... I googled him on "Howard Marshall" angling|fishing and got no hits, but I must have made a typo!

[edit] Fred Holland

A good read. :-) Johnlp (talk) 21:37, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Mmm. I'm not sure about more templates and stats in tabular form. What I like about a lot of the cricket stuff we do here is that, unlike cricinfo and cricketarchive, there is a narrative that can at times give you a real flavour of a match, a person or the times in which everything happened. Stats and boxes are very dry, when well-written prose is always readable. Johnlp (talk) 08:50, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Ted Barratt

Splendid work, sir! That's as fine an article-opener as I've seen. This chap was obviously better than Hodgson, Peate, Peel, Briggs, Blythe, Rhodes, Verity, etc.

Yours (in what I hope is patent humour [but only in the second sentence]),

Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 21:07, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

There is an article on Barratt buried in the Cricketer of the 1950's. Also in Cricket A Weekly Record but I do not have ready access. I believe he drank latterly and put on weight. He may also have been rather round arm in delivery. I'll try to find the article.Longrunup (talk) 17:24, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! JH (talk page) 18:29, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

It's first-rate stuff now. Do you think that it would be expedient for me to trawl through The Times in search of more? And please do not hesitate to draw my attention to one of your pieces again -- in fact, why not draw my attention to them all? --; I relished this. Robertson-Glasgow (talk) 21:25, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clem Hill

The last line of Clem Hill, from On Top Down Under reads "When watching Jack Hobbs break his record for the most runs in Test cricket at Headingley in 1926, it was Hobbs' wife sitting nearby who had to remind Hill that the record was previously his.[4]" But it is factually wrong as Hobbs beat Hill's Ashes record at Leeds (the record for all Test matches had already been his for nearly two years).

How do we handle this ? Do we need to make a mention in the Notes section ? Can you please comment here. Tintin 02:33, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Tintin 08:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Josh Coulthurst

Thank you for clarification regarding Josh Coulthurst. I was unaware that this was the case. Bobo. 17:33, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Moreover - thank you for reminding me that I had registered to view all the old Wisdens on Cricinfo! Completely forgotten I had already registered. A fascinating insight, thank you. Bobo. 17:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP Cricket

Dont have a bot, doing is by hand. Dont have any idea of how to make the template identical. Thanks. Five Years 06:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

John, I've replied to Five Years on his talk page. I don't think there is a problem here because the "WP" template is a redirect to the "WikiProject" template and so they are the same thing. It doesn't matter if an editor uses WP or WikiProject. --BlackJack | talk page 04:37, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Beldham or Beldam

It occurred to me that I really don't know where "Beldam" came from so I checked numerous sources and, with one single exception, they all use "Beldham". The exception is Nyren, who typically uses both spellings; he also refers on a couple of occasions to "Beauclerc". My conclusion is that Nyren's error somehow got picked up and has been repeated, but I don't now know where I've seen it! For the sake of consistency and to comply with all other sources, I think WP should use "Beldham" throughout.

Incidentally, I realise that "Beldam" is an authentic spelling and I'm not changing the names of people other than William Beldham and his brother George: e.g., wasn't there a Middlesex(?) player called Beldam – played in the late 19th century, I think? --BlackJack | talk page 04:25, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Answering my own question, there were three, including this one. All related to each other and all played for Middlesex in Edwardian times. One of them played for London County with WG. --BlackJack | talk page 04:44, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] E.W. Padwick or Eric William Padwick?

In any case, the move created an automatic redirect. Feel free to swap the contents of the page with those of the redirect page if you insist. There are cases where the abbreviated version of the name is used here (D. H. Lawrence or F. Murray Abraham come to mind) because that version of the name has become their trademark of sorts. I doubt that Mr Padwick is in that category even though his name often appears abbreviated (don't show me Google results please, there's no proof in these). But do please be bold if you disagree strongly. --QEDquid (talk) 10:53, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

I'm finally beginning to make some headway at Bradman's PR. I'd like to bowdlerise (sp?) User_talk:Dweller#Bradman to the relevant PR. I hope you don't mind. Please keep an eye on the PR a) in case you feel I miscontrue your comments and b) for my (eventual) responses. --Dweller (talk) 10:49, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Read that Patsy Hendren coached South Australia in Bradman's first fc season. Is it true ? Tintin 13:43, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

OMG, I have no idea. Would be nice to include if so, and sourced of course! --Dweller (talk) 13:48, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
It is from the site that JH mentioned in WT:CRIC. Tintin 13:50, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hon. C G Lyttelton

That's the one. It's confusing when they have titles. I found this recently when I did the stubs for Brudenell, Darnley and Thanet. Quite often they've succeeded to the title after they finished playing and so they are simply the Hon. Someone or other on scorecards. BlackJack | talk page 18:04, 1 June 2008 (UTC)