Talk:Henry Pym

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"Henry Pym" is also the name of an actual historical figure in the English Civil War.

Sources:

(I had to add a lot of keyword exclusions before I saw those pages near the top of a Google search for "Henry Pym": "-marvel -wasp -avengers -giantman -comic")

Would this really merit a disambiguation page here, though?


Need to update this for disassembled arc...

Perhaps not a full disambig (yet), but a move to "Henry Pym (comics)" is probably wise, and certainly good style. Luis Dantas 04:35, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] "The one who has made us most ashamed"

This phrase appears no less than eight times throughout this article, all but one of which are needless. I don't know whether the person who wrote it was having a laugh or trying to make some oblique point about spousal abuse, but either way it doesn't look suitable for an encyclopedia entry.

Blimey, someone changed that quickly.

Maybe someone's working through an issue. --Chris Griswold 02:23, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

This article is full of one person's biased take on the character in certain places, and should be edited to a higher level of quality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.33.118.188 (talk • contribs)

TOTALLY!!!! YEAH! --Chris Griswold 06:15, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aliases

Currently Ant-Man redirects here. I think it is time for a change. Let's make separate articles for Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Goliath (comics) and Yellowjacket (comics) and have them redirect here as needed. Luis Dantas 14:08, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. --Jamdav86 16:36, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Atheism

Where has it ever been mentioned that Pym was an atheist? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.164.237.106 (talk) 18:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] lets avoid a picture war

the current picture of pym is that of his yellowjacket identity. i am pretty sure from what i have read during the civil war that he is back to useing his giant man identity. lets there thus find a recent image of pym in costume without haveing picture reverting war?

um do we know if that is pym in MA#5 or is that a guess?Phoenix741 23:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Maria Troyvana

someone can put a little note about Maria/MODAM ? ( see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MODOK ) ? 88.149.170.148 18:20, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Strength Level at giant size

I removed the description of Pym's 100-foot tall strength level. I think it is inappropriate (not to mention inaccurate) to say that he is capable of lifting 50 tons at this height. It is my understanding that this is a "Marvel Universe Handbook" type of description, which wikipedia tries to avoid. More importantly, it is silly to think that a human figure of this stature could only lift 50 tons. A man of that size would surely weigh thousands of tons all by himself. Hank would have to be capable of moving at least that much weight just to get around. It would be like saying a 6-foot tall man is only capable of lifting a gallon of milk and nothing more. I am not a particularly big fan of this character, so it's not as if I'm just trying to make him sound more powerful. I changed the strength level to "immeasurable superhuman strength," but it should probably just be changed to "great superhuman strength" or something like that.Sadaharuo 00:54, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stang Lee

I removed this: This Ant Man may be named after Stan Lee with a g in the end of the Stan. Stang Lee doesn't have the ability to talk to ants, but he can shrink down. He appears to help the Fantastic Four against the Psi-lord (Franklin Richards). Two reasons: firstly, I can find no online evidence of Stang Lee appearing in any book, and secondly, if he does exist, he should probably be on the Alternates section of the main Ant-Man page.Daibhid C 21:57, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About the new picture.

Does anyone else think it shows him in the worst light possible. I mean being kicked from the avengers is a big thing, but it is not his defining quality. Could we change it back to the other pic, or find one that makes him look more like a hero, which everyone(in the marvel U) sees him as.Phoenix741(Talk Page) 03:19, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

How about the Avengers cover?

Asgardian 03:47, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

You mean Image:AvengersIII59.jpg, yea I am cool with that.Phoenix741(Talk Page) 03:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Could whoever uploads it please crop the "Marvel.com" promotional bug first? It won't affect the character image itself.--Tenebrae 06:31, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I croped it out, but it still shows up on the character page, it is weird.Phoenix741(Talk Page) 15:09, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
As per Wikpedia policy, a "full frontal" shot of the character is required for the SHB. Unfortunately, Avengers #59 does not fulfil this requirement. It's fairly black and white. Where a full frontal exists, this is to be used.

Asgardian 11:43, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

This does go back to my orinignal problem. Of it not being well representative of Hank Pym.Phoenix741(Talk Page) 15:56, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. The new picture, while being full frontal, certainly reinforces the whole "wifebeating failure" reputation that Pym has in certain elements of fandom, as well as with certain Marvel writers. Not representative of the character history or current status in the continuity. Would suggest either reverting back to the previous consensus picture or finding an alternative. Perhaps crop out his appearance as part of Stark's Army on the cover of the Civil War: The Initiative one-shot?

Image:Avengers_Initiavive_number_1.jpeg NYCTommy 19:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

ok i fixed the picture so it is just a link. Also I could try to crop it out, but it would not look good, if anyone else can crop it AND make it so it looks like he is the only one there, than I say do it. If not, I will fire up the old google search engine to look for one.Phoenix741(Talk Page) 15:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
The image needs to be sourced to an exact issue.

Asgardian 20:32, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Thats it..... not, yea your right that image looks better, or good job finding something that does not make Pym look bad, AND is more full frontal?Phoenix741(Talk Page) 21:29, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Where is the current image from?

Asgardian (talk) 15:41, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I've culled the so-so Yellowjacket image with no source and placed TTA #35 in the SHB, as it features Pym as Ant-Man, his first identity. This is then followed up with the great Giant-Man cover and finally the debut of Yellowjacket. In this manner the reader actually gets a look at Pym's three main personas without any repetition.

Asgardian (talk) 08:53, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

"So-so" is an opinion, which one is entitled to, but saying it doesn't make it so. While I might personally agree that Pym's original identity might be best in the SHB, we cannot set a precedent of unilateral changes to the SHB without consensus by [[User:Phoenix741 or other editors. I'm returning the Yellowjacket image (his longtime latest identity, so it's not arbitrary) and seeking a source for it.
I may agree with Asgardian that Ant-Man belongs there, but unilateral, non-consensus changes to SHBs are highly problematic in the long run.--Tenebrae (talk) 16:29, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Isn't there a rule somewhere where if the character changes costumes alot, the main image needs to be the one he is wearing his most recent costume?Phoenix741(Talk Page) 16:23, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't see that at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics/editorial_guidelines#Superhero box images, though it does say to use "the most universally recognisable appearance of a character" and "a clearly-defined primary costume".
It also says that "a promotional piece of artwork the copyright holders have released for promotional purposes" is one of the two main preferences (along with a noteworthy or much-used image, as some covers are).
Given this, it's hard to say. Given the roughly equal prominence of the two superhero characters, my two suggestions would be
  • 1) a dual image of Ant-Man and Yellowjacket, which can be Photoshopped easily enough, or
  • 2) a shot of Henry Pym, with his various superhero guises depicted within the body text.
Thoughts? --Tenebrae (talk) 16:49, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Good points by all. My two cents: the current picture (which is likely from an 80's era "Offical Handbook to the Marvel Universe") is the best of the Yellowjacket pictures that have been put forth to date and is certainly recognizable. As this is Pym's guise of choice in the current continuity, it makes the most sense to include this in the info box.
Having said that, given the rich history of the character and all the previous aliases, it would be good to try and agree on one shot of each to be used in the body of the article (eg one of Ant-Man, Giant Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket and plain old Doctor Pym circa his WCA days). 213.86.213.196 (talk) 16:54, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
I think that is was a old rule that recently changed, my bad. Both of your suggestions sound good, but I like the second once better. It shows how he has changed costumes over the years. We just need a good image of Pym w/o a costume, and a good pic of all of his costumes.Which is going to be hard. Phoenix741(Talk Page) 16:56, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Great to see such collaboration and interest on this article. I've done some googling and found a few potential covers we can use. for Ant Man and Giant Man, we should stick with the tales to Astonish. I also like the Yellowjacket debut cover from Avengers. To fill in the gaps, how about the following:
Both are covers, so there should be no copyright issue.
Another great cover to add in the section on recent events would be the following, which shows Pym as yellowjacket front and center and is tied to his cerrent series. http://www.pulllist.com/comic/marvel_comics/avengers_initiative/1_(of_6)/cover-full.jpg
Thoughts?NYCTommy (talk) 17:22, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


I like all 3 of them. Great Work.Phoenix741(Talk Page) 17:31, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
The Pym civilian picture is good — nicely anguished, as he often is — but more importantly I can crop it and place it against a black background with Photoshop.
The Goliath shot is good since it shows scale, and would work in the body copy, I think. The Initiative shot may be too cluttered, especially when there are very clear images available. And in any case, we already have Yellowjacket's historically significant debut issue. --Tenebrae (talk) 17:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
I am going to add the WCA and the Goliath pics in now.Phoenix741(Talk Page) 22:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
OK...in addition to adding for correct facts for the FCB, I've put the nice shot of Pym in the SHB, as in thinking about it the article is about Henry Pym. I culled the Goliath shot as the top of the article was getting way too cluttered and he can be seen and is now mentioned in the #59 shot. The bottom of the article could do with a picture - does Phoenix possibly have a nice shot of Ultimate Pym in action?

Asgardian (talk) 20:28, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that the Pym image should be in the SHB, when blown up that big, it gets blury. I will look for a image of ultimate Pym, not quite sure where the old one went to though. I liked that one.Phoenix741(Talk Page) 20:42, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Found one, what do you all think of this[1]

Phoenix741(Talk Page) 20:48, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

That is perfect! (so long as it can be sourced). I'll see if I can find a better shot of Pymin civilian guise. I really think the SHB image needs to be him in this mode or the Ant-Man over. Still one too many images at the top of the article.

Asgardian (talk) 21:32, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I know where that image is from, I have the issue somewhere so I will find that out(unless I get blocked due to other stuff), I still think Yellowjacket should be in the SHB because that is his costumed identity, but hey agree to disagree and I will go with the majority. Also, maybe we could space out the images a bit who knows, again I will go with majority.Phoenix741(Talk Page) 21:35, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Agreed on keeping yellowkjacket in. This is both his current guise in the mainstream MU and also his most recognizable costume (both in terms of number of issues and number of years he has been in the Yellowjacket identity). I also disagree on culling the Goliath shot. It is historically significant to the character who has had 5 major identities over the course of 45 year (I count "Doctor Pym: The Scientific Adventurer" as a separate and distinct superhero i.d. from plain old Hank Pym.)NYCTommy (talk) 17:58, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I've had to move the images to accommodate the headings, which were slightly out of whack. Had to cull the Goliath shot (targeted for deletion?) as there just isn't the room. The Ultimates shot, however, would be really nice.

Asgardian (talk) 22:02, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair-Use issues. I left the link to the Ultimate Image if someone wants to add it, I think it is form Ultimate #2. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phoenix741 (talk • contribs) 22:48, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Added the Ultimate shot and sourced it. Culled the Pym shot as it is pretty bad and a small part of a cover.

Asgardian 03:46, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clean-Up

In line with the clean-up, I'm culling the Ultimates image as it really doesn't offer much and the emphasis should be on the mainstream version. There are far better Avengers covers that feature he and Jan in action. Nod to Tenebrae for the help on the PH. FCB yet to be revamped with sources as now looking far less like a fan site and an actual Wiki entry.

Asgardian 06:34, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Great job on the clean up! Article flows much better and much of the trivia and minor mentions that build up over time are better left out. I've clarigfied a few points on recent activities/publication history that I hope you agree with. NYCTommy 19:51, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Top Ten most intelligent fictional characters

According to BusinessWeek, Henry Pym is listed as one of the top ten most intelligent fictional characters in American comics. Smartest Superheroes Bookkeeperoftheoccult (talk) 09:56, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Successors

There is still a link within the article to "Successors", but no section with that title. However, I didn't edit, as I was unsure whether the correct move was to recreate this section, or delete the reference. My instinct would be to recreate the section. --66.11.205.149 (talk) 19:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Done. Not sure when this was deleted, but it is relevant to the character given the prominence of "Pym particles" in launching almost a dozen other characters, many of whom have taken on elements of Hank's previous identities and costumes.NYCTommy (talk) 19:21, 14 May 2008 (UTC)