Talk:Biharis

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The origin and meaning heading was a misnomer since the text had nothing to do with either. Also it must be stressed that Biharis are natives of Bihar. To claim an origin and meaning solely related to Pakistan is a mis-statement.--Antorjal 20:26, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] message to the army

Born Pakistani, living as Pakistani, shall die a Pakistani.....SO BE IT.....!!! We SHALL RETURN to Pakistan —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Madman 0014 (talk • contribs) 15:11, 19 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] "related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 20:52, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stranded Pakistanis, Biharis or Bihari Muslims?

Yes all three exist, carrying different project-banners for WikiProject Ethnic groups, WikiProject Cold War, WikiProject Pakistan and WikiProject Bangladesh. I have proposed a merger of all three, but what would the title be? As soon we can decide on the title, I can volunteer to do the merging. I am posting to all of the WikiProjects for a solution, but it would be better to have a centralized discussion. Aditya(talk • contribs) 13:21, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

"Biharis" is misleading as it can refer to people from Bihar. Bihari Muslims would also be misleading, as the topic is about migrants who migrated to East Pakistan in or after 1947... they not necessarily came from Bihar, to the best of my knowledge. So, perhaps the widely used term "Stranded Pakistanis" should be the title of the merged page. --Ragib (talk) 17:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I've changed the templates so all redirect to this discussion. Certainly, Biharis is the wrong place; that should redirect to Bihari, which is a disambiguation page. There are presumably some Bihari Muslims who stayed in Bihar, some who were loyal to Bangladesh, some who are no longer stranded, and some who are stranded; if the first 3 groups are small enough, they can be mentioned under "Stranded Pakistanis" even though the term is not strictly applicable to them; if they are larger, they should be discussed either in a separate article, or in this article under the name "Bihari Muslims". jnestorius(talk) 18:21, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I think it is important to identify an ethnic group by the name the group uses, instead of an outsider identification (especially not a term that may seem derogatory). Besides, a lot many of these people didn't come from Bihar. Many are from Uttar Pradesh, some are from West Bengal, and few are from Orissa. But then, as Bangladesh has taken steps to integrate the group into the mainstream (i.e. as Bangladeshis), and even in the UK they are increasingly getting integrated into the general Muslim scene, is it alright to call them "stranded"? Aditya(talk • contribs) 06:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Is the term 'muhajirs' ever used for this group (which would be analogous to naming of Urdu-speaking group in current Pakistan)? Otherwise my feeling is that the article should be at 'Bihari Muslims in Bangladesh'. --Soman (talk) 13:48, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Allow me to state the problems again:
  • Bihari Muslims don't necessarily live outside Bihar.
  • Migrant Bihari Muslims don't necessarily resides in Bangladesh (there are many in Pakistan and the UK).
  • This group of people are popularly identified as Biharis in Bangladesh, Muhajirs in Pakistan, and generally Pakistanis in the UK.
  • The community organizations of this group in Bangladesh often calls them Stranded Pakistanis, a term also picked up by the news media and a few government releases.
  • But, there is no international acceptance of the term (certainly not in Pakistan).
Tricky? You bet. I can merge the three articles a in jiffy (and I volunteer, too), but it desparately needs an appropriate title. Aditya(talk • contribs) 03:41, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Muhajir (Pakistan) includes the 1947 refugees. "Stranded Pakistanis" seems both unambiguous and a self-label, so it gets my vote. Of course, the naming issues can and should be elaborated in the article. --jnestorius(talk) 08:21, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
What about Biharis in Bangladesh?--Pharos (talk) 09:50, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I feel that this article should become a section of Bihari people as the individuals discussed in this article are part of the same ethnic group (source). A section to discuss this group could be created, Population in Pakistan and Bangladesh, making the Bihari people appear like this. If this suggestion is not plausible, I would support Pharos' suggestion of renaming this article Biharis in Bangladesh. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 05:58, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
If the stranded Pakistanis are not necessarily from Bihar, then how do you discuss them in Bihari people? Also, how would you rename them as "Biharis in Bangladesh" if they are not exclusively from Bihar. --Ragib (talk) 06:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
A lot many of them came from Munger and Patna. But, a lot many also came from Uttar Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh. And, a few are from the Urdu speaking community of West Bengal. Only in popular Bangladeshi coinage are this people Biharis, which again is a bit derogatory, too. I had mentioned the Muhajirs earlier because the only binding factor is that they mostly are from India and mostly are Urdu-speakers. Aditya(talk • contribs) 06:43, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Could you please provide me with references that state that the Urdu speakers who migrated to East Bengal were comprised of ethnicities other than Bihari people? Sources indicate that Urdu speakers from Uttar Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh migrated to West Pakistan rather than East Pakistan (source 1). Urdu speaking Bihari people migrated to both East and West Pakistan (source 2). Most Urdu speakers in Bangladesh belong to the Bihari ethnic group (source 3, source 4, source 5). For this reason, they are called Biharis and can therefore be appropriately be discussed in the Bihari people article. According to a source from Refugees International:
“ In pre-independence India, the Biharis were an Urdu-speaking Muslim minority who resided in the Hindu region of Bihar. At the time of partition in 1947, some of them chose to move to East Pakistan and others to West Pakistan. When civil war broke out in 1970, the Biharis sided with West Pakistan. After the war and the independence of Bangladesh, they were unwelcome in either country. Pakistan feared that a mass influx of Biharis would destabilize an already fragile and culturally mixed population, particularly in Sindh. Bangladesh scorned them for supporting the enemy. With neither country offering citizenship, the Biharis (also commonly called “Bangladeshi Biharis”, “stranded Pakistanis”, “a linguistic minority” or even just “displaced persons”) have remained stateless for 34 years. ”
In light of what sources say, the content discussed in this article is appropriate for discussion in the Bihari people article since they belong to the same ethnic group. With regards, AnupamTalk 22:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I would like to point out that it would be possible to write an article called Biharis in Bangladesh, which could explain that it's not strictly about Bihari people in Bangladesh, but rather the entirety of the groups commonly called "Biharis" in that country. Or, maybe Bihari refugees in Bangladesh would have even less of an ethnic emphasis.--Pharos (talk) 01:37, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Anupam, your argument is mostly based on the assumption that the Urdu-speaking stateless immigrants in Bangladesh are exclusively from Bihar. Let me point out again that they are not, though they constitute the majority. Here are some sources: Journal of Humanities and Social Sciences, Journal of Refugee Studies, Refugee Survey Quarterly, Cambridge Journals, The New Nation, The Asian News, The Aftermath of Partition in South Asia (by Tai Yong Tan and Gyanesh Kudaisya). These people are closely related to the Muhajirs in Pakistan, the major difference being state recognition (i.e. those in Pakistan are citizens of land, those in Bangladesh are not). Though UNHCR refers to the group as Biharis in Bangladesh (Source), they are often referred to as Urdu-speaking stateless immigrants in Bangladesh or Urdu-speaking refugees in Bangladesh or Urdu-speaking stateless people in Bangladesh. IMHO, these are much more NPOV and nearer to the facts. Bihari demonym is used mostly to derogate these people, while Stranded Pakistani has strong political bias. I'd really suggest an NPOV title. Say what? Aditya(talk • contribs) 16:52, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Requests for comment

Dear Friends: I saw the section on Stranded Pakistanis in wiki-pedia. I have suggested revision of some of the basic defination pertaining to the cultural, ethnic and legal identity of this group. I request your comments from all those interested in the subject. Sincerely Syed Kamal, Founder & President, Stateless People in Bangladesh Inc. Houston, Texas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stranded Pakistani (talk • contribs) 15:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)