Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television

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Fiction/entertainment guideline notices
More issues and discussions at the fiction notice board

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[6/07/08] Discussion about WP:FICT has spilled over to an RFC for the general notability guideline.

[6/03/08] A new RFC on the global acceptance for WP:FICT is underway.

[6/03/08] A TV MOS guideline is being proposed. See related RFC.

[5/09/08] Discussion regarding plot summaries is occurring at Wikipedia:Plot summaries.

[ongoing] There is a discussion about the wording for WP:NOT#PLOT.

[3/10/08] The recent ArbCom case on television characters and episodes has been closed; concerned editors are strongly urged to review the final decisions of the case.

To-do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject Television:

edit · history · watch · refresh

To do list:

edit - history - watch - purge

Contribute to the assessment drive by assessing articles in the unassessed category.
Ensure that requests for article assessment are met promptly.
Ensure that articles tagged for needing our expert attention are dealt with quickly.
Participate in deletion discussions for television-related articles.
Tag articles related to television with the {{television}} template
- Tag articles covered by Wikiproject Lost
- Tag articles covered by Wikiproject The Simpsons
Add Infoboxes to TV-show articles that don't yet have them
Tag articles with requests for improvement
Work on articles needing improvement
Note or direct people to biography conventions for articles on actors, crew. Similar for characters and episodes etc.
Take on the task of analyzing Category:Television and its subcats. What categories do we think should be added to the articles, and which should go (Overcategorization) ? We also need to better explain on the category pages what they are intended for and weed out the articles that do not belong there. Some categories might need renaming because of WP:TV-NC ??
Define a list of TV genres to be used in the Infobox
Setup guidelines for trivia, ratings, filmography

Archives
Jul 2004 to Apr 2006 Apr 2006 to Sep 2006 Sep 2006 to Dec 2006 Dec 2006 to Jan 2007 Jan 2007 to Mar 2007 Mar 2007 to Sep 2007 Oct 2007 to Dec 2007 Jan 2008 to Mar 2008 Apr 2008 to Sep 2008 Next to begin

[edit] Xena Episodes

The Xenophile sock is back and flooding Wikipedia with Xena articles and lists. The only good edits so far were to create season pages for Xena, which were desperately needed. However, they are in bad shape and need to be cleaned up, including proper formatting, lead expansion, image correction, referencing, and adjusting to transclude the episode lists into List of Xena: Warrior Princess episodes. They probably also need renaming. Could probably end up being 7 FLs and an FT if someone wants to tackle, and doesn't mind having to occasionally deal with the socks.

That's the list. When cleaned up, some of the redirected episode articles should probably be adjusted to redirect to the appropriate season pages. I have gone though and tagged all for their issues, removed the fan gushing (and believe me, it was gushing), and fixed the images. The cast sections needs to be converted from big tables to more useful prose, and the toher stuff still needs to be done. Collectonian (talk) 17:16, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I've already gone ahead and moved them to the more appropriate "(season X)" format, and adjusted the links in the LOE page. ~~Here is the TV Guide episode~~ listing, which should provide you with a reliable source for the episode airdates. The Production numbers should probably be removed unless a reliable source can be found (TV.com, which is where I assume the numbers were taken from) obviously isn't reliable in that regard. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 18:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and made a Xena episode list hack, cleaned up the season 1 and 2 lists, and changed the main list to use a transclude. I've also removed its production numbers per above, and added a more proper season table to the main list. Any volunteers to tackle the leads of the various season articles and the main? They are currently so short, that the season infoboxes run into the episode list unless a ton of white space is added. The lists also need writer/directer info added, as is available. Also, I think the "Xenaverse" template could use a serious overhaul...its almost all Hercules rather than Xena.... Collectonian (talk) 00:06, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Ignore the TV Guide link, it's listings are incomplete. MSN has a complete listing of all the episodes. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 01:02, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

As an update, season 3 & 4 have also now been reformatted and updated to have the episode lists transcluded into the main list from those season pages. Still having trouble from the xenophile socks, but no one else seems to be caring all that much. :( Collectonian (talk) 00:42, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Use of Flags in Television Infoboxes

We are trying to guage a final consensus as to whether flag icons should or should not be used in television infoboxes. If you have a view on this, please go HERE, and voice your support/opposition/neutrality. Thank you. _Talk Islander 14:22, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal

An anon IP has made a proposal at Template talk:Episode list#Please add a new field called "ProductionNotes" trying to get a new field added called "ProductionNotes" for shoving trivia and other such things into the episode summary table. Personally opposed, but be good if more project people read his proposal and offered their own thoughts as well. Collectonian (talk) 14:32, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Schedule report on Disney Channel and Nick GAS

Nick GAS Although, the entire Nick GAS schedule has been look the same since Finders Keepers left in 2006. but the main situation was Get the Picture been played 4 times in the afternoon hours on both EST & CST zones while Nick Arcade played twice during the early morning hours and it been 1-2pm ET on weekdays since April 2004 and on weekends since December 2004 but it have'nt been back in the morning hours since the weekend of September 4th, 2004. it will excepted to be replaced with ethier 1 of show is airing (Nickelodeon GUTS, Nick Arcade or Double Dare 2000) or 1 of any shows is not airing (Wild and Crazy Kids, Finders Keepers, Family Double Dare, Double Dare or Global GUTS) at 1-2pm ET, 4-5pm ET and 3-4am ET. it will affect the lineup.

Disney Channel Starting May 17th, Disney Channel is changing the entire schedule, is this true that Disney Channel chaning the whole lineup, soon? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.230.191.173 (talk) 00:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Broadcast Engineering and Technology Taskforce?

I seriously think that WP needs a task force [or section thereof] devoted to television technologies and related broadcast engineering/operations. I have read many an article about such that have so many issues that any single-user revision to correct would require such large deletion and time spent working that it would likely be marked as vandalism. Redoing the pages elsewhere then moving them in as part of a task force or just working in place, quickly, with research pre-compiled through a series of discussions could prove very useful. --tonsofpcs _(Talk) 03:48, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me. -- Ned Scott 05:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Arrested Development Taskforce

My, what a big WikiProject you have! I was interested in starting up a Arrested Development taskforce that would have this project as its parent (perhaps the Comedy WikiProject would be another parent?). I wasn't sure if I needed permission or anything before I start up a proposal etc. Thanks, Joelster (talk) 00:18, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I do not think that you need permission from us, but I also do not think that there are that many editors interested in cleaning up the articles on the best sitcom. –thedemonhog talk • edits 00:35, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

No, you don't permission. But I'd advice against creating a taskforce (WP:TASKFORCE) when you can't count on other editors joining you (a lot of people sign up but never seem to bother afterwards). Some excellent articles and even featured topics have been created for various TV shows, without any taskforce, just a single editor. But you can certainly start a proposal for a TF and see where it goes. – sgeureka ^t•c 08:38, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Just letting you know that a proposal has been set up here. Add your name if you're interested! Joelster (talk) 23:33, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Another update: The taskforce has been set up here. Anyone is welcome to join. I would especially appreciate some help with the AD Taskforce template that I created. Thanks, Joelster (talk) 06:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2 questions

Working mostly on and off (mostly off) on America's Test Kitchen. Couple questions...

I noticed that the WP is very broad in terms of what an article can contain. I understand shows are different, but they all certainly have at least a few elements in common. :-D —Rob (talk) 20:37, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Is there currently (or plans for) a public television WikiProject?

Thanks! —Rob (talk) 20:37, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

The first one doesn't seem to be a question :P For the second, no. If anything, something like that would be a taskforce under this project, not a standalone project. The MoS and guidelines for the project are perfectly adaptable to public television series. They aren't that different from any other television series. Collectonian (talk) 20:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, there's the request templates. Those are a great help. I was looking for something similar to Wikipedia:USRD#Structure (which is my "home WP"). —Rob (talk) 22:33, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, you mean Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/How to write about television programs? :) Collectonian (talk) 23:49, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] MOS

I've been working on a rewrite of Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/How to write about television programs in my sandbox (see User:Bignole/Television MOS), in the hopes that the television community can have an official style guideline similar to the guideline that the film community has. From what I've seen, the current page (which is not a guideline) has been rather inactive, and I know that when I edit articles I generally look to the film guideline as its pretty applicable in most cases. I feel that we need our own official guideline for MOS (you can see the initial discussion over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television/How to write about television programs#Update).

I'm hoping to get some fresh eyes look over it, tighten prose, include links to relevant policies and guidelines that I may have missed, and question whatever is on the page that they disagree with. This will also help with the problems associated with WP:EPISODE. With this MOS, we can remove any style information from EPISODE and have it focus solely on being a notability guideline (if it continues to exist at all, but that's a different discussion). So please, share your thoughts on the sandbox talk page as it's easier to make changes to the information if the discussion is taking place on the same page. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 02:02, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

The new MOS has been created, and the proposal is under way. Please go to the MOS talk page to discuss any changes, or lend support to the current version. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 12:05, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fancy something different?

Hi everybody, I've just written an article called Introduction to genetics, which tries to explain the important concepts in DNA, genes, and so on, in an absolutely non-technical way. I was wondering if any people with no background in science would have time to go through this article and find the pieces where it isn't quite clear enough or fails to explain things properly. Comments on its talkpage please. Tim Vickers (talk) 18:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Avatar Wikiproject

Is Wikproject Avatar a task force of Wikiproject Television, or is it it's own stand alone Wikiproject? The WP:TV page say were are, but the WP:AVATAR page does not. Some of us at Wikiproject Avatar would like this cleared up. Rau's Speak Page 17:27, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Avatar is a task force under the TV Wikiproject. The WP:AVATAR page should probably be updated to more clearly note this. Collectonian (talk) 18:07, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

That's what I thought. Well, it is appropriate, though, considering WP:AVATAR only covers a small scope of articles, and it fits nicely into WP:TV. I have one more question though, according to WP:TASKFORCE, it says task forces are usually sub-pages of the parent project, and that the task force template is merged into the parent template. Considering some other task forces of the main TV WikiProject are like this, should WP:AVATAR and WT:AVATAR be moved to a sub-page of this page? — Parent5446 ^{(t n e l)} 18:35, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Usually they are, but some older ones were created before that became standard. If its possible, I personally think they should be moved, to make it clearer, but you have to make sure to move all the subpages as well and fix all links. Collectonian (talk) 21:53, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do. — Parent5446 ^{(t n e l)} 22:11, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

This will help you finding all pages, if you don't already know. :-) – sgeureka ^t•c 22:42, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Some of those appear to be unused and can probably be CSDed (housekeeping) rather than bothering to move them. Like the IRC log page. Collectonian (talk) 22:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. Everything is successful so far. I added the Avatar parameters to {{TelevisionWikiProject}} and simply replaced the contents of {{WPAVATAR}} with

{{TelevisionWikiProject|class={{{class|}}}|avatar=yes|avatar-importance={{{importance|}}}}}

, and then used AWB to substitute each transclusion of the template. I nominated at least five subpages for deletion (there are a lot of inactive subpages), and moved the rest. I also deleted some unnecessary redirects caused by the moves (like for the members page). In addition, I added the List, Category, and Template-Class categories for the project, etc. If anything is wrong, please tell me here or on my talk page. For now, everything is good, I hope. — Parent5446 ^{(t n e l)} 02:41, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

It's one of those things where it doesn't exactly matter what we call it, but thinking of it as a task force helps people to think of the project with a flow. For a lack of better words.. -- Ned Scott 03:42, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] AFD - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of stock characters in comedy

Didn't see a place to put television-related AFDs, so Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of stock characters in comedy. Cheers. ~ JohnnyMrNinja 04:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Link's right on the project page: Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Television Collectonian (talk) 04:38, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assistance requested at List of DuMont programs

The various lists of programs broadcast by NBC, ABC, and CBS are nearly complete and de-redded. However, the DuMont program list remains mostly red. I assume the age of these shows hinders development on associated articles. Help with countering systemic bias on Wikipedia is greatly appreciated. Firsfron of Ronchester 00:33, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for review

Could anyone review the article It Feels Like Magic? (4Kids' edit of Winx Club's vert first episode)

I wonder if that article is worth to stay on the English Wikipedia.--JSH-alive ^(talk)_(cntrbtns)^{(mail me)} 08:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

No, it isn't and has been redirected back to the episode list. Collectonian (talk) 13:16, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Celia (TV series)

Anyone want to adopt the article for Celia (TV series). The creator asked for an assessment from the project on April 28th, which I provided. I offered lots of additional help and advice to get the article in line with our style guidelines, etc. After I nominated some other articles the creator had made for deletion, however, he went all nuts on me (and got himself blocked for a day for making a crude insult). I don't want to deal with such an immature person anymore. However, some comments he made in the AfDs has me concerned that he will undo all of the fixing up done on the article out of spite, so I'd like to ask someone else to consider taking this one on to their watch list. For the most part, its in okay shape, except the episode summaries are all too long (though better than the huge things they were), the cast/characters needs to be merged into one section, and the episode airdates are only years. Could also use more referencing, but mostly would just like someone to keep an eye on it to keep it from being reverted back to its previous state. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 15:58, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Massive Ep List Clean up

List of Last of the Summer Wine episodes is in dire need of some clean up. The show spans nearly 30 series (seasons). The episode listings are all in odd formats, not using {{episode list}} and instead being tabled with the plot summary and "episode notes" beside the titles and air dates. The series overview box is in bad shape as well, and it could use some lead work. Anyone feel like tackling this large revamp? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 08:09, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Check out the current WP:FACs. There's a guy who has worked on Last of the Summer Wine and made it a WP:GA, and he's now nominated it for WP:FA. He might be willing. I'm still tackling 2.4 Children! Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 08:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll shoot him a message :) -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 08:31, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, he's gonna work on it. :) -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 11:37, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge proposal over at Smallville pages

See Talk:Smallville (TV series)#Merge all character lists for discussion. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 13:14, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox Changes

There is a proposal to add a field to the infobox for "panelists" for panel type shows. Feel free to come weigh in. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 18:30, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for feedback: Cast lists in TV miniseries articles

I am currently on a GA improvement drive for Pride and Prejudice (1995 TV serial), which was a six-episode adaption of a novel, with quite a few important characters to build the story. This makes the article fall somewhere between the TV MOS and the film MOS and possibly a book MOS that I am not aware of. Having FA quality in mind, I have thought of three options to cover the characters:

[1] where Plot and Characters/Actors are separate, linking to Pride and Prejudice#Main characters (the novel's article) for character descriptions
[2] where Plot mentions the actors' names, but the Characters/Actors section stays like before
[3] where the Characters/Actors section got merged in full into Plot (i.e. four more characters), the genealogy table was merged into the novel's article, and the Casting section links to Pride and Prejudice#Main characters.

I don't feel strongly about either option, but I figure it can't hurt to get some input before I settle on one. Maybe someone already has experience with something like this so that I don't have to reinvent the wheel. – sgeureka ^t•c 10:28, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I would go with the plot mentioning characters' names, and then have a Cast section to discuss the cast and who they played. You do a {{main}}, {{see also}}, or {{further}} link to Pride and Prejudice#Main characters, but perhaps the characters in the TV series may have been portrayed slightly differently than they are portrayed in the book, so you might want to discuss that in this section, too. Definitely go with Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/How to write about television programs, rather than the Book or Film MOS, as the series was neither. Also take a look at User:Bignole's Proposed TV MOS, which looks set to replace the aforementioned page in the next few days. Good luck! Matthewedwards (talk · contribs · count · email) 19:32, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I just found Featured Articles about two old British miniseries (The Quatermass Experiment, Quatermass II) that pretty much do what you suggested, and I like their style better than my three options. :-) – sgeureka ^t•c 09:03, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Greek (TV show)

Is the "Name of the Show" section really neccesary? I'd like some opinions. Yojimbo501 (talk) 23:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Nope, it isn't. Also, just want to note that this article needs a LOT of help, if anyone wants to step in. Its basically a stub for a main article, with a episode list and character list branching off of it. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 00:37, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] mass-changing of TV templates by new user

See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#new_user_mass-editing_templates. If oyu can't find the thread, look at my diff --Enric Naval (talk) 18:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A question regarding categories "Films over X hours"

This note is being placed on the talk pages for both the film project and the television project as the discussion will overlap their articles. Also, I am posting this on these projects discussion pages as there are too many articles involved to list these on each separate shows talk page.

Recently User:24.129.100.84 began adding [[Category:Films over xx hours long]] to the pages of various television serials and miniseries. I have removed these based on the fact that these categories have usually been reserved for films that have had a theatrical release. I cannot find this listed as a specific criteria so this is the first point to which I would like both projects to come to a consensus. Should TV programs be considered films for these categories?

Some made for TV films may fit this category as long as it is the official runtime, sans commercials, that we are basing this on. But to list television miniseries and serials as films is a misnomer. They are usually broadcast over multiple nights and have breaks which include closing and opening credits between the episodes.

As one example this editor keeps adding Category:Films over three hours long to the Prime Suspect page. None of the episodes in the nine stories that made up the seven serials was ever more than two hours long. Even if one serial was broadcast on one day (as happened a few times on cable TV in the US) one still saw the closing credits of episode one, then a break which included other programing such as highlights of shows to come, and then the opening credits for episode two.

A look at this users contributions page [4] will show how many TV programs and miniseris have had these categories added to them. Should a consensus be reached that these categories might apply then we will need to set some criteria for what does and what does not fit the wording of the categories. My thanks to you for your attention in this matter. MarnetteD | Talk 20:42, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

If the work hasn't been released theatrically and was expressly created for television presentation, then the work should not be in a film category. (Whether or not WP Television wishes to create Category:Television programs over... or the like is their prerogative, of course.) Therefore, Berlin Alexanderplatz is okay, since it's seen theatrical release, but Prime Suspect would not since it hasn't (IIRC). Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 20:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC) I have added this edit here so that members of the TV project can see the thoughts of one of the longest serving and respected members of the film project. MarnetteD | Talk 21:10, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Anime TV series

There's some anime TV series, like Gungrave (anime) and Mononoke (anime), that disambiguate by adding "(anime)" instead "(TV series)" as recommended by WP:TV-NAME. I think they should be moved (i.e. Gungrave (TV series), Mononoke (TV series)), the same way Justice League (animated series) and Gargoyles (animated series) have been moved. What do you think?--Nohansen (talk) 03:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

There is an on-going discusson on this at WT:MOS-AM#Article names and disambiguation, so please put replies there. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 03:38, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Missing articles

In my gnome-ish way, I've been working through the lists at Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/List of TV shows over the last several months. It's been a combination of removing articles from these lists that have infoboxes, redirecting redlinks where articles exist under different names, ensuring that the lists are correctly sorted between 'missing' and 'no infobox' - various tasks. When I started, the main project page showed that the effort was 16% complete, which wasn't accurate - by the time I'm through all the alphabetical lists, I suspect the true picture will reveal that this effort is more like 50% complete.

A couple of thoughts/questions, however. First, as I've been doing this, I've been following the instructions on the main project page to tag the talk pages for articles with the "needs television infobox" template where appropriate. It occurs to me that it might have been nice to come here when I started and post a note that I was doing this, as this category has now grown five-fold over the last few months - it's accurate, but it might come as a surprise to people engaged in WP:TV who focus on filling in the infobox gaps. So, apologies.

Second, it's also occurred to me today that it might actually have been better to have been tagging those talk pages with the "WP:Television" template and the needs infobox option, rather than just the template I was using. Before I keep going, or even think about going back to change the others when I'm done, I just wanted to check if the project thinks this would be valuable or if simply the "needs television infobox" template is enough. If you'd prefer the former, I'll proceed accordingly, and also change the instruction on the main project page.

Thanks, Mlaffs (talk) 17:34, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RFC on WP:FICT

A request for comment has been made to determine if the Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) proposal has consensus. Since this project deals with many fictional topics, I am commenting here. Input on the proposal is welcome here. --Pixelface (talk) 01:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peer Review on Last of the Summer Wine

I'd be grateful if some editors would be willing to give me some feedback on Last of the Summer Wine. I still feel it is almost at FA but the editors who tipped the balance to oppose in the last FAC refused to elaborate on what they thought was wrong with the article beyond some vague and cursory comments. I've opened a peer review request at Wikipedia:Peer review/Last of the Summer Wine/archive3‎ if anyone is willing to review the article. Thanks and cheers! Redfarmer (talk) 15:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Categories: To do