Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chicago/Assessment
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[edit] New nominee suggestions
All we are looking for her is some basic consensus that the article is important along the right dimensions to be on the ballot of nominees for Top-importance Chicago articles. If you believe an article is a weak high importance based on the priority scale, it is O.K. to support it being made a nominee as Top because you may be overlooking something. This is not a vote that an article is top in your opinion just that it is a meritorious contender. Also, note that since WP:WPChi covers all of Cook County, Illinois, non-Chicago articles are eligible if they are Cook County articles. If the project expands to cover Chicago metropolitan area those articles would be eligible as well. This is merely a place for feedback on which articles should be nominated. Note that quality and importance/priority are not related. An article could have a very important subject that we should attach a high priority to for the project but still be a stub or a redlink. Do not confuse the quality of an article for its importance/priority. The latter is the subject here and is independent of the former. Do not view an article as ineligible because it is not high quality.
To see an archive of past promotion and demotion debates please see the archives page.
[edit] Current debates
[edit] Saint Valentine's Day massacre
Seminal moment in Chicago history. Has been edited about 555 times. Figures in numerous movies, TV shows and books. Speciate 22:39, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] John M. Van Osdel
The first Chicago architect.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 02:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose - Not well known enough. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Chicago-style pizza
This is the true taste of Chicago.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Comment A broader article on Chicago cuisine might be better, but we don't seem to have one at the moment. Zagalejo 20:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] My Kind of Town (Sinatra song)
Seems like an article should be there already.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Comment A good candidate for COTW. Zagalejo 20:09, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Is it derived from Chicago (That Toddlin' Town)? Speciate 23:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Opposed, many songs about Chicago. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Cook County, Illinois
Many important things and institutions for Chicagoans are outside of the city limits.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Support Considering the scope of the project, this seems like a good choice. Zagalejo 20:09, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Neutral, unless the number of allowed Top articles is increased greatly. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Chicago metropolitan area
Similar argument as nom above.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Support See above. Zagalejo 20:09, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Neutral, unless the number of allowed Top articles is increased greatly. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Illinois
It is our state.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Weak Oppose, unless the number of allowed Top articles is increased greatly. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Jean Baptiste Pointe du Sable
Without him, there is no Chicago! Zagalejo 07:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Neutral, unless the number of allowed Top articles is increased greatly. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Jane Addams
Addams hasn't been assessed at all, but she was named by Time-Life as the 66th most important person of the last millennium.[2]. Zagalejo 07:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Support--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 16:53, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Neutral, unless the number of allowed Top articles is increased greatly. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Chicago Water Tower
Storied part of Chicago history, tourism and architecture.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 06:39, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Support Zagalejo 07:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Neutral, unless the number of allowed Top articles is increased greatly. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Navy Pier
Might as well throw it out there. Last I read, it's the top tourist attraction in the city. Zagalejo 03:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose - High is good enough for it. Speciate 03:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Poles in Chicago
We do have more Polish people than anywhere outside of Poland. Zagalejo 03:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Comment - Same is true for more than a few other ethnic groups. I would like to see an article on the immigration history of Chicago. Speciate 07:20, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Neighborhoods of Chicago
Chicago is known as the "city of neighborhoods". Zagalejo 03:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Neutral, unless the number of allowed Top articles is increased greatly. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Wrigley Building
Seems like it should be an official Chicago Landmark.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose - Most un-"Chicago school" of all major buildings. Does not represent Chicago's architectural traditions. This is why it has never been granted landmark status. Speciate 04:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Black Sox Scandal
One of the most important parts of Chicago sports history.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
- Support: Obvious choice. IvoShandor 15:37, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Neutral, unless the number of allowed Top articles is increased greatly. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Chicago (musical)
I was going to nominate Chicago (2002 film), but I think this is the important version--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC).
- Support Sure, what the hell. It's among the most notable fictional works set in Chicago. Zagalejo 05:54, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- We don't even have a category for plays set in Chicago. Books neither. Speciate 06:25, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose, both film and musical on lack of true Chicago-ness, and the fact that I'm uncomfortable with media representations of things rising to the same level as the things. I consider the Blues Brothers an exception because it fed back into what defines Chicago. Speciate 23:38, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The Untouchables (1987 film)
I think the film version of The Untouchables (1959 TV series) where Sean Connery got his long awaited oscar is notable to non-Chicagoans and all things Al Capone are notable.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose, the film, but not the concept, of the Untouchables if there was an article on that era. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The Sting
7 Oscars.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose mostly shot indoors, as I recall. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Road to Perdition
6 Oscar noms.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose, too new. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Ferris Bueller's Day Off
Cult classic.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose: Meh, not that important in the greater scheme of what is Chicago. IvoShandor 15:38, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Weak support, if the number of allowed Top articles is increased greatly. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Millennium Park
Crown Fountain Jay Pritzker Pavilion, Harris Theaater (Chicago), Cloud Gate, etc.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 15:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
- Support It's probably too new for me to vote for it on the actual ballot, but it definitely deserves to be in the running. Zagalejo 02:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose - It's part of Grant Park, and too new as a separate entity. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Lake Michigan
while the article is not specific to chicago, the history of the lake in terms of local economy, industry, recreation, sports, urban planning, and world's fairs is of extreme significance. LurkingInChicago 01:28, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose - I'm comfortable with High. Speciate 23:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Union Station
Although rail travel has declined somewhat this article is still tremendously important as a Landmark building and a cultural instituion.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:43, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
- Neutral, unless the number of allowed Top articles is increased greatly. Speciate 23:29, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] George P. Shultz
Shultz served as the United States Secretary of Labor from 1969 to 1970, as the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury from 1972 to 1974, and as the U.S. Secretary of State from 1982 to 1989. He was a University of Chicago Professor and then Dean of the Graduate School of Business. If Rumsfeld gets to be Top, then surely Shultz, who is still advising the current President, must be Top too. Speciate 04:40, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose, not much of a Chicago connection besides his professorship at the U of C. I don't think Rumsfeld should really qualify, either, since most people outside of Chicago (and many within) don't think of him as a "Chicago guy." Zagalejo 04:02, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
- That was my point, about Rumsfeld, actually. Speciate 01:11, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
- Should we reopen Rumsfeld, then? Zagalejo 02:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, please. His continued Topness is like an open wound. My Shultz example trumps him in every single way, yet Schultz shouldn't be Top. Speciate 04:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- I am personally against repeated stabs at the apple. The motion to demote failed in June. I would like it to be a policy of our system that votes to promote and demote carry for one year before being reevaluated. Of course, this is not really a formal organization, it is just my suggestion. As far as a comparison and Shultz and Rumsfeld goes, I would say that they are fairly comparable at the national level with reasonable arguements that either is more notable today. However, in their roles as Chicagoans, Rumsfeld was born and raised in Cook County and then later served Chicagoland as a four term U. S. Congressman, while Schultz was a professor and Dean of the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business. Generally, all persons born and raised in Cook County who served multiple terms as part of the Chicagoland Congressional delegation are considered notable for their roles as Chicagoans. However, most University of Chicago Deans are not even WP notable in the sense of having articles although most would pass WP:N. Thus Rumsfeld is probably higher on our scale than Shultz because he was more of a Chicagoan (to international wikipedians) by birth, rearing and service although they went on to equally prominent roles. Nonetheless, I would encourage a policy whereby our votes hold for 1 year.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 18:12, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- I guess I will create a page for the current UofC dean, Ted Snyder (economist). I will omit the line that he once employed TonyTheTiger as a lackey teaching assistant.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 18:16, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- I am personally against repeated stabs at the apple. The motion to demote failed in June. I would like it to be a policy of our system that votes to promote and demote carry for one year before being reevaluated. Of course, this is not really a formal organization, it is just my suggestion. As far as a comparison and Shultz and Rumsfeld goes, I would say that they are fairly comparable at the national level with reasonable arguements that either is more notable today. However, in their roles as Chicagoans, Rumsfeld was born and raised in Cook County and then later served Chicagoland as a four term U. S. Congressman, while Schultz was a professor and Dean of the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business. Generally, all persons born and raised in Cook County who served multiple terms as part of the Chicagoland Congressional delegation are considered notable for their roles as Chicagoans. However, most University of Chicago Deans are not even WP notable in the sense of having articles although most would pass WP:N. Thus Rumsfeld is probably higher on our scale than Shultz because he was more of a Chicagoan (to international wikipedians) by birth, rearing and service although they went on to equally prominent roles. Nonetheless, I would encourage a policy whereby our votes hold for 1 year.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 18:12, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, please. His continued Topness is like an open wound. My Shultz example trumps him in every single way, yet Schultz shouldn't be Top. Speciate 04:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Should we reopen Rumsfeld, then? Zagalejo 02:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- That was my point, about Rumsfeld, actually. Speciate 01:11, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Motorola
International company on the forefront of technology. They are a worthy contender for Top importance. TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:41, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
- Weak Support Yes, they are a worthy contender, but since they are actually in Schaumburg I dunno. Speciate 23:20, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
- Object for the reasons Speciate gives below for Allstate.Shsilver 19:32, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Phil Jackson
Legendary coach who bolstered his legend by Threepeating with the Los Angeles Lakers after doing so twice with the Bulls. TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:41, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
- Further explanation: I have limited the athletic nominees to members of the SportsCentury listings. However, Threepeating with another team after the list formation makes him a respectable nominee. TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 00:56, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
- Support His article is only B-class at the present time. Bringing it up to GA or even FA is a noble and achievable goal for us. Also, most people know something about him, and could contribute to the article. I don't know if that applies to making him Top priority, but the more than 500 edits to his page shows that people are interested in him. Speciate 23:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Weak SupportI'd think Mike Ditka would take precedence over Phil Jackson. Yes, Jackson won more championships than Ditka did, but Ditka is probably seen a being "more Chicago" than Jackson. Shsilver 19:35, 14 August 2007 (UTC)- Comment This is an international project so we want to keep in mind a broader perspective. No athletes/coaches are eligible for Top who only had 20th century accomplishments and are not part of the SportsCentury listings as stated above. There are numerous great athletes/coaches that are on the list that have not yet been selected/elected.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 20:05, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- In that case, I change to Object since looking at only his Chicago activity, he wouldn't be eligible and from the project's perspective I'm not interested in his post Chicago (i.e. twenty-first century) career.Shsilver 20:47, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment This is an international project so we want to keep in mind a broader perspective. No athletes/coaches are eligible for Top who only had 20th century accomplishments and are not part of the SportsCentury listings as stated above. There are numerous great athletes/coaches that are on the list that have not yet been selected/elected.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 20:05, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- He is being inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame tonight.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 17:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Architecture of Chicago
- Support. Chicago has made an important contribution to architecture.Thomas Paine1776 (talk) 20:56, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Demotion debate
[edit] Current debates
[edit] Top importance drive
I note you've Frank Lloyd Wright as a nominee for (I assume) some kind of improvement drive - If you go that route, please let me know and we'll post it as a monthly improvement drive at the architecture wikiproject. --Joopercoopers 16:48, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
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- I have several sources laying around here, if someone could outline what needs to be done with the article that would help. I guess I could do it myself. : ) IvoShandor 07:51, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
