Talk:Symphony No. 8 (Schubert)

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It seems that this symphony was not unfinished but put aside because very personal: Schubert seems to have had a dream which marked him deeply and which he remembered in every detail. This symphony counts this vivid dream and represents its musical realisation or its analysis - psychoanalysis, even if this word was not yet invented, but most of the romantics analysed their dreams - . I can't find any book or encyclopedia that talks about this, if anyone has suggestions plz let us know.

There's a "citation needed" note for the comment in the first paragraph about the "B minor entr'acte from Schubert's incidental music to Rosamunde". Anthony Burton wrote liner notes to the Deutsche Grammophon recording of the Unfinished, performed by the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Guiseppe Sinopoli. (DG Dig 445 514-2: the 1999 Penguin Guide awards a rosette to the performance.) Burton's liner notes say: "It has been suggested that the powerful Entr'acte in B minor from Schubert's Rosamunde incidental music of 1823 is the missing finale of the Symphony, and indeed it is a match for the first two movements in scoring -- with three trombones added to the standard classical orchestra -- as well as in key." The 99 Guide also reviews a set of Schubert symphonies by the Academy of St Martin in the Fields conducted by Neville Marriner (Phillips Dig 412 176-2) on page 1244, writing that the Unfinished is "here completed with Schubert's Scherzo filled out and the Rosamunde B-minor Entr'acte used as finale". Do those count as "citations"? References to this business of the B-minor Entr'acte seem to be common knowledge in the field, so maybe we don't really need a citation. Jim Hardy 19:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "The key of the symphony was virtually unprecedented"

I find this especially amusing considering I was just listening to a B minor symphony by C.P.E. Bach, who died before Franz Schubert was born. Anyway, it cites only three very famous composers as supposed evidence for this odd claim, and I believe this is a mistake. This statement need not be included. It adds nothing to the article. Friedrich Schneider, C.P.E. Bach, Ordonez (all these in my CD collection right at hand), Dittersdorf wrote at least one (unrecorded so far as I know)... this is without really looking. Hardly unprecedented, certainly not "virtually unprecedented". The fact that I have 3 that I have found IMMEDIATELY in my collection and know of one other would probably indicate that with some real digging a much longer list could be produced. Can't this misleading statement be removed without harming the article? Smyslov 20:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Brian Newbould in his book on the Schubert Symphonies (p.187) calls B minor "a key very rare in the Classical symphonic repertory" and even "It may be that Schubert's is actually the first B minor symphony of all time". Clearly, just from the examples you give, that isn't true. I've changed the wording to 'unusual' rather than 'unprecedented'. Perhaps B minor was more common for pre-Classical symphonies than those of the Classical period? Has anyone ever done a statistical analysis of symphonic home keys for the various period? Might be interesting. Cenedi 10:33, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Three in a bar

Today's anonymous addition: "One possible reason for Schubert's leaving the symphony incomplete is the predominance of the same rhythm (three-in-a-bar). The first movement is in 3/4, the second in 3/8 and the third (an incomplete scherzo) also in 3/4. Three movements in a row in exactly the same rhythm does not occur in any of the symphonies, sonatas or chamber works of the great Viennese composers." Three comments: (1), yes, well, it may be a possible reason, but are we dealing here with the contributor's speculation, or can this theory be referenced? (2) It probably shouldn't be in the head summary but in a later portion of the article. (3) That's an AWFUL lot of "symphonies, sonatas and chamber works". Again, can we have a reference to support the statement, or are we supposed to check by going through them all ourselves? Cenedi (talk) 10:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Horn and Trumpet keys

Contrary to what was asserted earlier, horns and trumpets could most certainly be crooked -- or keyed -- in B natural: this is a very unlikely reason for the work to have remained difficult to finish. Additionally, there are many examples in the works of previous composers requiring horns and trumpets to change their crooks if the music uses harmonies too foreign to the instruments' crooks. Unless there are citations to support the idea that the piece was left unfinished because of difficulties in orchestrating for the brass instruments, this idea should not be presented. Josiahboothby (talk) 23:57, 23 April 2008 (UTC)