Talk:South West Trains

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Contents

[edit] Queenstown Road

Having added to this article I still find the listing of the suburban services difficult to put across, since they consist of interwoven services, often using the same lines for parts of their routes. I am going to have a further look at this - I think I can see the way to tackle it. Give me time! Peter Shearan 18:29, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

I removed Queenstown Road from the list of stations which all trains pass through on their way into Waterloo - it only has platforms on the Windsor Lines, so isn't served or passed through by trains on the SW main line. Pedantic, I guess, but Wikipedia is a pedant's paradise. --Mpk 12:18, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

So all trains pass by it but not through it? Pcb21| Pete 13:03, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
Correct. While it's possible for trains from the main line to reach the Windsor lines from CJ (there's a crossover not far from the country end of QR station), the platforms themselves are on the Windsor lines only. The four tracks of the main line pass by, but not through the station. --Mpk 19:24, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

(Following paragraph restored although it had been deleted, as the paragraph following it makes no sense otherwise. --Mpk 19:42, 3 January 2006 (UTC))

Surely some mention of what an officious bunch of jobsworths seem to be employed by SWT should be made. The quality of service is pretty dire and their booking staff (call centre) are devoid of any customer service skills at all. - Den 03 Jan 2006
Feel free to add this information to the article iff you can do so without breaking the policies on Neutral point of view and No original research. In this case the latter means that you will need to cite some published reports on the quality of service provided by South West Trains - perhaps the relevant Rail Passengers Council have something? Also please Sign your posts on talk pages by typing four tildes ~~~~. Thryduulf 12:05, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, it is not fair to simply put your own opinion. I travel in to waterloo each day from Raynes Park, though which a large majority of the suburban services past, and can tell you the quality of service is very good! Also, saying that trains do not all pass through Queenstown Road is very very pedantic, so I assume that also means that main line trains don't also pass through Raynes Park, or Berrylands, which they clearly do..... ~~~~ Jrhilton 21:02, 31 March 2008 (GMT)
Well that is true, but only because the main line is the middle two of four tracks through those stations. When you get to Queenstown Road, the main line is quite segregated from the single island platform. 86.139.20.55 (talk) 18:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC) Dmccormac (talk) 18:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
True, I stand corrected, lets agree, all mainline trains pass "over" Queenstown Road station, as there is a tunnel under the lines for passenger access.....Also, to explain the complex Suburban services, I feel that the best way is a graphical representation, followed by the line details below......anyone agree, and when will the Office of Rail Regulation statistics for 2006/07 passenger number stats be published, its interesting to note that passenger usage on a lot of the Suburban stations operated by SWT actually went down between 2004/05 and 2005/06 according to the published stats, and I'm interested to know why, fair dodging, more travel card usage, or less people using trains, etc maybe more travel card usage i suspect?~~~~ Jrhilton 21:02, 31 March 2008 (GMT)
I see no reason why travelcard users would not be counted. They are still paying passengers. Perhaps travelcards and season tickets don't get counted at the ungated stations? It is in SWT's interests to count them as best it can. The more it can show the travelcards being used the better it can argue for an increased share of the their revenue. --DanielRigal (talk) 19:42, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Yep, I think it is because most of the stations on the Suburban Route do not have ticket gates. From a personal perspective there are no gates at Raynes Park, so if you did not have a ticket, you could still travel to countless locations, e.g. New Malden, Berrylands, Thames Ditton, Hampton Court, Hampton Wick, Norbiton, Teddington, Fulwell, Hampton, Kepmton Park, Sunbury, Upper Halliford, Shepperton, and almost all stations between here and Guildford plus Chessington South, and by changing at Surbiton you could get out of most stations on the Alton Line too etc, so in reality thinking about it, most of the stations don't. I was going to suggest we put in each station page if there are barriers, but that might be used by fair dodgers as a good dictionary of which stations they can get to for free.... Judging by the number of people caught when there are ticket inspections here at Raynes Park, I would say fair dodging is rife and a big problem which is bad as it does effect us fair paying passengers. Though from the recent moving of ticket machines and building work, it looks like ticket barriers could be coming here quite soon, no doubt related to the idea of being able to use PrePay on rail services......I believe that the system for sharing/allocating travelcard revenue includes some estimates for passenger usage as there are so many train stations out of zone 2 that do not have barriers plus on sundays often barriers are left open for most of the day when stations are not fully staffed, and it is hard as a result to estimate usage exactly....someone must have a quite interesting job working it all out, or maybe they just have to press enter on a computer somewhere......~~~~ Jrhilton 21:02, 18 May 2008 (GMT)

[edit] Lead image

The lead image was previously a Class 170. This was replaced by withdrawnwith the comment

I have changed the picture of the train at the top of this article, because the old train shown was of a fleet which South West Trains are throwing out, and the new in service for forseeable future.

The new image referred to is of the single Class 960 (ex. Class 121) that SWT use for route learning. While this is undoubtedly a good photograph, it is not representative of the SWT fleet. The picture is in the fleet section, and it does belong there. The lead image should illsutrate a typical and distinctive aspect of the article. For this reason I changed the picture to a Class 442 unit - which are used on the SWT Waterloo-Bournemouth-Weymouth route and are unique to the SWT franchise. I explained this in my edit summary:

change lead picture again. The Class 960 unit is used only for route learning, replaced with a Class 442 used on the mainline services to Weymouth

Without comment, the lead image was changed back to the Class 960 unit by withdrawn. So I have changed it back to the Class 442 with the edit summary

change lead picture back to a Class 442 for the same reason as last time - see talk

I would like the comments of others regarding this. For full disclosure the Class 442 image used is a photograph I took. withdrawn took and uploaded the Class 960 image. Thryduulf 10:06, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

CPeter: I have put the 442 back because it gives SWT a better image, as well as being some of the most reliable trains in the country, they have the nicest interior (including Compartments for first class.) and buffet cars, not to mention being cyclist friendly; they have guard's vans. As this picture is also down the page, I will replace the below picture with something else. For ease of reference here are the three images in question:

Class 170 by Our Phellap
Alswt.jpg

Class 960 by withdrawn

Class 442 by Thryduulf (me)

Thryduulf 10:13, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


I agree that the image should be of a more modern train; since the company have gone to such lengths to introduce new trains, we should show them rather than old stock. David Arthur 15:43, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

South West are the most active player in Community and Heritage programmes. Therefore it fits that a train affliated to such be shown. However, the trains that operate the heritage line are not in South West Trains livery. The Class 121 unit, however, is and so fits both of my specified criteria: it portrays the heritage status, but is in a fitting livery for a lead image. For that reason have I restored the lead image to the original.

  • Maybe so but it hardly represents the train passengers are mostly likely to travel on, there is 1 bubble car, not used by any passenger and the 2 Cigs which are confined to a 3-4 mile (CPeter: Lymington Branch is 5.5 miles long.) branchline that newer stock cannot operate. Compare that with the 110 Class 450's (increasing by 17), 45 Class 444s, 91 Class 455s, 9 Turbostars (though they are leaving), 24 Class 442s, 2 Class 158s and 22 Class 159s (The 158/159 fleet will increase by upto another 17) I'd hardly say SWT were a heritage operation. The vast majority of passengers will be traveling on Desiros and 455s, the lead picture should be representative of the current fleet and that means Desiros and 455s. By your reasoning Chiltern's bubble should be top of their page, same with Arriva's when it arrives next month*, with the DfT wanting Pacers on community rail should First Great Western's lead image be changed to a pacer on April 1st. (*correct me if they already have it) Enotayokel 20:19, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
    • So why not have the 5WES? This suits both of you as it has compartments for 1st class passengers, like slam door trains, they have 24 so it is quite likely for you to get one, and it is also in their own livery. I agree with CPeter, they give SWT a better image.
      • Never been on one my self, I live at the end of the West Of England line, so its solely 159s with the odd Turbostar if the dispatchers are feeling sadistic (never been on a Turbostar, but have been in a formation with one, my portion was the 159 with the 170 being detached halfway), but yep, they carry passengers so satisfy that requirement, and their 1960's motors/electrical gubbins could qualify them as heritage. ;) - Mind you I've only been in two compartment trains, an Italian owned coach on a Cross border, and the German ICE which has compartments in most coaches, prefer open seating myself Enotayokel 19:43, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I've restored the lead image to the one which was there until Unisouth replaced it on the 3rd of May (full disclosure - I took the picture, but I didn't originally place it in the header myself!) and which isn't used elsewhere in the article. As far as the above is concerned, I figure that a pair of 450s at Waterloo is about as representative an image of SWT as you'll find. --Mike 21:41, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that it should either be a Five Wes or a 455, as SWT have refurbished both and are in their own livery.

I've reverted this as 455s aren't really exclusive to SWT, and a tight shot of a 442 didn't exactly say much other than letting the viewer see what the front end of a 442 looks like. I think that 450s at Waterloo are far more.. eh, as I said above. Iconic, like. Most SWT commuters don't commute on 442s, and the image of SWT is overwhelmingly as a commuter railway. Also, sign your comments, please. Four tildes, like this: --Mike 22:33, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Messy Desiros & Bad Photos

I have just cleaned up the desiro section of the article. I have...

  • Removed stupid statement on the picture of 450 seats
  • Put it in a better position with the other desiro photo, right at 200px
  • & removed bad photo of the passenger information screen

I have to say the section is much better now. Lenny 11:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Does this article even need a photo on train seats? Simply south 13:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

  • I think not - would be better posted under the Class 450 article - Enotayokel 10:32, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture reverted!

Main picture reverted, better image, nicer look, a 5WES at Waterloo

  • Kept the WES theme (though TBH I'm not fussed as long as something used in passenger service on the main line) - but changed it to a brighter and less gloomy picture that shows the livery better (for the title) - really the title picture should be something generic to show the livery and TOC rather then the train - Enotayokel 16:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I am to remove the wessex electric double and place a better image in its place, you cant see much of a train or livery in it. Unisouth 07:42, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

  • But it is now one that is used Three times in the article already. Lets not have another revert war, but let us have some variety - Enotayokel 19:16, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Put varied pictures of desiros in the article. Unisouth 18:10, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sout Western dates

Copied from 94.'s page

I don't think the information should be added to South West Trains as it is effectively a new franchise, seperate from the old one. Anyway, the new information cannot be added to SW trains' article as it is going to be a new, different company. Simply south 18:36, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] UK vs England

Some anon keeps changing "United Kingdom" to "England" as the name of the country SWT operates in. Please stop doing so, random anon. The National Rail network covers the whole of Great Britain, which includes Scotland and Wales as well as England. SWT's particular area of responsibility is mentioned further down. --Mike 02:41, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:South West Trains logo.gif

Image:South West Trains logo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 08:37, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Class 121 → Class 960

The described Class 121 in the Current Fleet section is actually a Class 960, so i have changed it! Many Thanks ACBest 18:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Island Line sub-brand

there should be a section on this. Simply south 21:30, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Stagecoach Island line.jpg

Image:Stagecoach Island line.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:15, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Citation of Criticisms

I've added a couple of citation needed tags to Criticisms section. The only thing I could find was this article - and it doesn't mention the bit about bonuses:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1969212.ece —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zabdiel (talk • contribs) 13:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edits by 79.72.28.96

Would someone please have a look at the edit history of 79.72.28.96, both to SWT and to the Portsmouth Direct Line page? To me, the edits look counter-productive. If so, further effort may be needed to stop these edits. David Biddulph (talk) 12:04, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

And I assume that 79.72.93.56 is probably the same editor. David Biddulph (talk) 20:04, 19 May 2008 (UTC)