Talk:Robert Schumann

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the legacy section seems a bit more like an editorial than an encyclopedia entry; i don't really know enough about schumann to make any useful changes, but just thought i'd point that out.


65.185.213.33 added this article and several others to the Pantheists category. Can anyone corroborate this, or is it simple vandalism? Charivari 08:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

As with Friedrich Schiller, I propose that the category be removed until anonymous user returns with some documentation. --HK 15:39, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
And since there has been no further discussion, I will proceed to do so. --HK 22:28, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


COPYRIGHT VIOLATION --This article seems to be copied word for word, with only minor alterations and additions, from [1]. It is evidently under copyright to Soylent Communications 2006. Surely, it should be deleted, yes? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.71.220.231 (talk • contribs) .

No. They are both derived from a common source, the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica. The article at nndb.com is much closer to the original (the copyright is arguably bogus, since the 1911 EB is in public domain). The Wikipedia article has diverged significantly from the 1911 source, but retains some of the same wording. (It needs rewriting, but clearly no one has gotten around to it yet). Antandrus (talk) 04:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] When Schumann met Brahms

I've removed 'September' from the 1835-39 section: the month is given as October in the 'after 1850' section, and this is in fact correct. Brahms first called at Schumann's house on 30 September 1853 but he was not at home: his daughter Marie told Brahms to come back the next day. The first meeting was therefore on 1 October. This is in Eugenie Schumann's autobiography.Cenedi 11:06, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Front rank of German romantics

This phrase is vague enough to avoid the charge of 'peacocking'. If we say that Schumann was a great composer, and one of the greatest of German romantic composers, we merely say what every other reference work says. Viz. Larrousse: "Robert Schumann, the middle class boy from the provinces who was to become one of the greatest Romantic composers and one of the most outstanding geniuses in the history of music..."

[edit] Links

I have deleted some non-notable sites where there were brief redundant articles. Then I deleted a 404-error link from pianosociety.com/index.php (if anyone wish to report the correct one...?). Then the dlib.indiana.edu/variations/scores/song.html link was of very difficoult navigation (I couldn't find anything). Alegreen 15:39, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clara Schumann

"Here the work is discussed by the imaginary characters Florestan (the embodiment of Schumann's passionate, voluble side) and Eusebius (his dreamy, introspective side) -the counterparts of Vult and Walt in Jean Paul's novel Flegeljahre; and a third, Meister Raro, is called upon for his opinion. Raro may represent either the composer himself, Wieck, or the combination of the two (ClaRA + RObert)." Clara is first mentioned here as "combination of the two". At this point, however, the reader doesn't know that this refers to Clara Schumann. Could something be done about this? I think Clara Schumann is notable enough as a person to be mentioned even in the first paragraph of the article, something along the lines: "He was the husband of Clara Schumann". Afterall, Robert Schumann is mentioned in the first sentence of the Clara Schumann article. ;-)--Wormsie 13:58, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I absolutely agree... she played unequivocally a major role on Robert's life, to the point that music attributed to either one was actually written by both. She was his source of inspiration (some mention his deteriorating sanity), and his early life was definitely shaped by the events related to her father's refusal to give her in matrimony to Robert. Something has to be done about this, or this will read like Martin Van Buren's autobiography... in which he didn't mention his wife, even once... Demf 15:52, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Glad that somebody agrees. :) My last edit was reverted, hopefully the reverter at least agrees to discuss this matter at first. I think last time the reason was "Robert Schumann was more popular than his wife", but more popular doesn't make her less significant, not as a person and not even in the matter of what kind of an influence Clara had on Robert's work and life. Also, there's still the problem of Clara Schumann being mentioned in the article only in passing, and this would at least clear that issue somewhat.--Wormsie 08:52, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Complete list of works

Does anyone know where a full list of Schumann's works can be found? The link to the list of works gives only works WITH opus numbers. And what about works without opus numbers? I ask this because I got a piece of music (Schumann's) which instead of opus number has this - WoO 28. As I understand WoO means without opus. Please help!

The online Grove (grovemusic.com, subscription access) has a complete list. Woo 28 is a bit of the Fantasiestücke that Schumann omitted from the original 1838 publication (he wrote it in 1837); it was only published in 1935. The other eight pieces of the Fantasiestücke he published as opus 12. Antandrus (talk) 19:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

You're right! I got it on a CD with 'Fantasiestücke op.12! Thanks!

[edit] Middle name Alexander

Re the edit of 12 August 2004: I have no idea who Eric Frederik Jensen is, or what evidence he adduces that Schumann had no middle name. I'd like to see it, though.

The question from today's edit: "what's more, when do you ever see or hear it?" seems to be an argument not to state his middle name, even if it was completely accepted that he had one. I reject that argument - all of Wikipedia's biographical articles start with the subject's full name to the extent that we know it, yet the vast majority of our subjects used only their first given name.

But to answer the question, Grove and Slonimsky both start their articles with Schumann, Robert (Alexander). JackofOz 01:26, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

The newest Grove online has an explanatory note: "there is no evidence for a middle name -- Alexander -- given in some sources; both birth and death certificates give only "'Robert Schumann.'" Antandrus (talk) 00:00, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Curious. I wonder where the idea that he had this middle name came from. Is it possible that someone just made it up, and ever since then other writers have been copying the error in good faith? -- JackofOz (talk) 00:10, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Here's the only explanation that Daverio includes in the Grove article: "Possibly Alexander is a corruption of his teenage pseudonym 'Skülander'." We could actually quote Daverio in entirety in a footnote if that's helpful. Cheers, Antandrus (talk) 05:15, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Is there any corroboration of the Grove assertion that there is no middle name? At the moment, there seems to be one reference saying there was no middle name, and many saying there was. It’s an unresolved issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ælfric (talk • contribs) 23:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nänie disambiguation question

Schumann wrote a piece for piano and three voices (SSA) called Nänie, words by Ludwig Bechstein) (opus 114 No 1) - a recording of which I have uploaded to the Schumann page (GFDL - my own performance). It is in fact a lament for a dead pet bird. I notice that Nänie has an article of its own in wikipedia but only refers to the SATB piece by Brahms (different and much more serious words). Is it advisable to create a disambiguation page? Can someone more wiki-savvy than the undersigned possibly do this? If so I can send the words of the Schumann piece. Thanks Dwsolo 06:31, 8 July 2007 (UTC)dwsolo

[edit] Section titles

We need more than just years and dates for these paragraph titles. We should have labels of events in his life, what he was doing at the time, like in other biography articles. "Early life (1832-1857)", "Work in London (1874-1882)", &c. VolatileChemical 06:01, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] quirky prose

Methinks that large chunks of this article were lifted from a second-rate source. I don't know which, but there are common patterns—odd ways of putting things, vagueness, unsupported claims.

Needs an overhaul. Tony (talk) 12:54, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Relics of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica article. Sometimes I wish we'd never have copied from that thing, back in the early days of the project -- it's just so hard to write "around" their prose. In most cases I think it would be easier just to start from scratch. You can see the same thing in the Schubert article. Antandrus (talk) 05:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

A little bit of work done on the overhaul, but it definitely needs more. DJRafe (talk) 08:43, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "In 1840, after a long and acrimonious legal battle with her father..."

Meaning what? What was this all about? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.101.153.231 (talk) 01:39, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hand injury

Three possible causes for the hand injury are put forward in the article, all without specific citations. I am not up to date with the Schumann literature, so please can others discuss the relative merits of the theories? I do not think the contraption implicated in one theory was of Schumann's own invention. How syphilis medication can injure a hand needs to be clarified. The evidence for the "surgical procedure" that Schumann is supposed to have carried out needs to be explained more fully (and what might have driven him to risk so much in going to such lengths). If any of these theories are speculative then the article should say so. --RobertG ♬ talk 09:25, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Recent addition to lead

The following was recently added to the lead:

Schuman's mental state affected the style of his compositions and his literary writings. He suffered from what many historians believe to be bi-polar disorder. Schumann devised three characters out of this disorder that represented three different moods. Eusebius represented his contemplative/introspective/calmer state, Floristan represented his fiery/impulsive side, and Master Raro was the superego of sorts that tried to control the two former ones. Though this may sound like schitzophrenia, the three characters were really created by Schumann to represent these particular moods in his music/writings... not as actual personalities that are often clues towards schitzophrenia.

It is simplistic and not altogether true. Every artist's mental state affects his style. I believe bipolar disorder is now viewed as a hopelessly simplistic diagnosis of Schumann's condition. Eusebius, Florestan and Raro do need to be documented, but in the article not in the lead. "Schitzophrenia" is merely mentioned in order to be discounted. For these reasons I restored the previous version. --RobertG ♬ talk 09:39, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Niels W. Gade

Robert Schumann was friends with Niels W. Gade. He even composed a song, "Norse Song", for Gade, the first four chords of which are G, A, D, and E, respectively. It is mentioned in the Gade article that he was friends with Schumann, should it not be mentioned in the Schumann article that he was friends with Gade? 24.15.53.225 (talk) 04:53, 11 May 2008 (UTC)