Talk:Oscar Peterson

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"which clearly shows that Peterson's age limits his technical powers." - isn't that, without an attribution, a bit too judgemental for an encyclopedic article? - davidswelt

What does 'M%$# F*%$#' stand for? Did you know that Glenn Gould admired Mr. Peterson - in one of his letters he refers to it. One Canadian pianist to another.

Is there some reason the last edit removed the second and third paragraphs? I don;t care if you edit anonymously, but it would be nice to know why a major change like that has been made. John FitzGerald 01:28, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Since no reason was supplied I have restored the two paragraphs. John FitzGerald 01:57, 13 May 2005 (UTC)


I got on this page redirected by a link to the oscar peterson trio. Since the trio had during several years fixed members and appeared as an entity, wouldn't it be appropiate to separate the discography for the albums from the Oscar Peterson Trio and from Oscar Peterson as soloist or with companion? Can do if I had some time :)

Contents

[edit] Jazz pianist

Jazz pianist - that was his entire professional career, a great career. He was one of the best pianists who professionally played jazz music, from boogie-woogie to ballads. He also accompanied some great jazz singers. His 200 jazz recordings are very uneven in perfomance quality; some are great, some are not.

However, calling him one of the best of ALL pianists would be wrong in many ways. He never recorded serious classical piano concertos by Franz Liszt, or Tchaikovsky, or Sergei Rachmaninov on professional level with a full symphony orchestra. The lack of classical repertoire is a tough fact that does not allow even to discuss comparisons of his level of piano playing with serious classical pianists of top caliber, such as Martha Argerich, Mitsuko Uchida, Artur Rubinstein, Andre Watts, Vladimir Horowitz, Sviatoslav Richter, Sergei Rachmaninov, Van Cliburn, Murray Perahia, Maurizio Pollini, Claudio Arrau, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, Emanuel Ax, Vladimir Ashkenazy, Lang Lang, Arcadi Volodos, Daniel Barenboim and many more.

Peterson himself admitted that he never reached the quality of piano playing of his jazz model, Art Tatum. Other great pianists in jazz were Duke Ellington, Bill Evans, and more. Today we can hear such excellent jazz pianists as McCoy Tyner, Dave Brubeck, André Previn, Shelly Berg and Benny Green, as well as Adam Makowicz, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, and other top players. Young virtuoso Eldar Djangirov delivered some outstanding performances compared by many to Oscar Peterson, whom he calls a model, as well as Art Tatum.

Oscar Peterson was one of the greatest pianists in jazz.

His jazz trios, and some performances during 50s - 80s as accompanist, were very nice. Regards. Steveshelokhonov 07:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Please read the reference for that assertion. Allmusic.com's Scott Yanow explicitly calls him "one of the greatest piano players of all time". This is sufficient to say that Peterson was considered to be one of the greatest piano players of all times. AecisBrievenbus 14:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Reference by Scott Yanow, a jazz critic, narrowly specialized in JAZZ music, does not apply to all CLASSICAL pianists. His opinion is reputable in jazz, albeit his profession as a jazz critic has little to do with ALL pianists. 76.172.211.141 (talk) 15:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't change the fact that a reliable and relevant source considers Peterson to be one of the greatest piano players ever. Not one of the greatest jazz piano players ever, but one of the greatest piano players. Period. The background of Scott Yanow is irrelevant. AecisBrievenbus 15:22, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. He is one of the best pianists of all time. NO WHERE in the article does it say that he is one of the best amongst classical pianists, but of ALL pianists. It's taken straight from the article, therefore it shouldn't be removed. Blackjays1 (talk) 03:19, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] postage stamp

I have added the Oscar Peterson postage stamp to this page. It should be usuable under canadian crown copyright and even American Laws since this page is actually talking about the stamp. Dowew 18:27, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Videos

Hey Everyone!!!!

Go to youtube.com and see classic video of Oscar in action. Better hurry - too good to be true, and they'll probably take the videos down soon!!!

Almighty2001 23:30, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:OscarPetersoncomposer.jpg

Image:OscarPetersoncomposer.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:41, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Oscar Peterson on MPS records

Yes, it's true, O.P.'s cuts on MPS are brilliant and he considered them to those of his records he loved the best. However, when you follow the link on the MPS letters, then you find an explanation for the abbreviation of MPS to be "Music Production of Stuttgart". This is absolutely wrong. The correct meaning of MPS is "Musik Produktion Schwarzwald" (translated: Black Forrest Music Production) and the location of the studio was in the house of SABA-coowner Hans-Georg Brunner-Schweer in Villingen-Schwenningen, approx. 100 miles south of Stuttgart.

Good detail. That was in the Schwarzwaald area in Baden-Wurtemberg. Peterson lived in Germany for months during the 70s and 80s, he was a regular player at various European jazz festivals then.Steveshelokhonov 06:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inappropriate quote

Assuming that the Ray Charles quote: ' Oscar.... is a mother-fucking piano player ' is accurate, its wholly inappropriate for the bio on Peterson. While Ray prob. meant it to be laudatory, it assumes a derogatory tone in an otherwise good article about this amazing person, and I propose the quote be removed from the article. There are certainly going to be other more interesting quotes available on or by Oscar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.248.3.176 (talk • contribs) 22:18, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I disagree

I think it is a most appropriate quote. It is clearly enthusiastic in concept and how jazz people really talk. Please sign your comments, btw. Bellagio99 (talk) 23:08, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. The words mother fucking aren't always used in a derogatory manner. In this case, Ray Charles was basically saying "Oscar Peterson is an outstanding piano player." I think it should stay since it's not disrespectful. Blackjays1 (talk) 17:46, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Such words of praise and recognition are special and fully respectful when coming from Ray. Keep the good line. Don't degrade Wikipedia to the level of PG-13 movies.Steveshelokhonov 05:03, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Agreed, but for a time it was almost the only quote about him and I think that was a mistake. I think there are other statements concerning him that are just as notable. Like Herbie Hancock saying he was "the major influence that formed my roots in jazz piano playing" or Eldar Djangirov calling him "my main artistic influence."[1] (To show the multi-generational and international range of his influence)--T. Anthony (talk) 08:28, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Great comment by the great Ray about the great Oscar Peterson. Yes, there are many more comments by pianists who were influenced by Peterson, like Shelly Berg, Benny Green, and Adam Makowicz, among others. But this Ray's line is really jazzy. Steveshelokhonov 18:08, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Oh yes. Athough I don't use that word myself I felt the quote was quite appropriate and well-placed.--T. Anthony (talk) 03:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regards

Kind regards from Germany on Christmas eve, the day after O.P. passed away unfortunately! Karl-Heinz Bendix......

I join you here for a heartfelt tribute from England , possibly in the wrong place but what is the internet if not to bring people together at such times? A wonderful gentle man of free spirit and peace.

--Andrew

A major loss to the world of jazz. They broke the mold when they made Oscar. His style never changed in all the years he performed—and it didn't need to change. He got it right the first time!

BDD (talk) 04:17, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Rest in peace, Oscar. Basser g (talk) 04:42, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Singer??

The first sentence states that he was a "jazz pianist, singer...", but I don't think I can fully agree with that. Are there any notable songs or albums which he actually sings on? Blackjays1 (talk) 00:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, there are. He sang on 1965 tribute album to Nat King Cole. Also here and there he sang his own songs, and standards as well. Another album with his voice: Oscar Peterson - Romance (Label: Polydor, 1990). Steveshelokhonov 08:14, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pianist, composer, Canadian icon

An editor has questioned the user box listing "pianist" before "composer". You could say that the entire article, with many references, documents his primacy as a pianist. He composed some nice pieces (and on a Mac when I visited him in 1992), but he spent most of his time playing others' pieces. I also added "Canadian leader" which the article also documents. He also sang in a few pieces, as the previous discussion noted, but it was non-notable (a record label tried to get him to emulate Nat King Cole in the early 1950s). YMMV. Bellagio99 (talk) 03:18, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I see that Blackjays1, a serious Peterson editor, has removed "Canadian leader" from the intro box and added the York Chancellor's succession box at the end of the article. Thoughts on both:
Peterson was more than a pianist and composer. He had achieved a statesman-like role in Canada that was more than say, Miles or even Dizzy in the U.S. Indeed, Prime Minister Chreitien said he would have appointed him Lt.-Gov of Ontario in 1993 if his health would have permitted it.
I didn't know that the York Chancellor succession boxes were at the end of all Chancellors' articles. So my deletion may have been wrong. But the boxes seem like York peacockry, especially as Peterson's Chancellorship is suitably noted in the text of the article.
Bellagio99 (talk) 14:50, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I think I see where you are coming from, but I don't think that "leader" or "icon" quite fits with the infobox category of occupation. Those are roles in which he ended up being cast, but they are not exactly occupations. I would say leave it out of the infobox entirely and allow the article to address it. Also, "icon" just sounds a little too fannish; no offense intended. Just my thoughts, --Paul Erik (talk)(contribs) 18:37, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Agree with Paul Erik. Being an iconic figure among fans is one thing, compare to Glenn Gould, another Canadian genius, arguably the best Canadian pianist, and an definitive icon and role model for some classical pianists (just like Peterson is for some jazz pianists); albeit Glenn Gould's infobox does not mention him as an icon.

Comparing pianist to pianist is fare, but comparing a pianist to a hockey star, especially the caliber of the Great Gretzy, please... . I love Oscar Peterson, his 50s trio and his 70s solo piano works are great, still other jazz pianists of his time were no less great: Art Tatum, Bill Evans, Duke Ellington to name just a few. However, outside of jazz piano specialty, there are quite many supreme pianists in Canada and in the rest of the world. Louis Lortie is a great Canadian pianist, Martha Argerich, Mitsuko Uchida, Artur Rubinstein, Andre Watts, Vladimir Horowitz, Sviatoslav Richter, Sergei Rachmaninov, Van Cliburn, Murray Perahia, Maurizio Pollini, Claudio Arrau, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, Emanuel Ax, Vladimir Ashkenazy, Lang Lang, Arcadi Volodos, Daniel Barenboim are supreme pianists, each one iconic and highly regarded. Steveshelokhonov 22:11, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Steve, I guess I didn't make my point clear. The "icon" item was about his role in broader Canadian society -- not about his piano playing. Unlike Gould, he did play such a leadership role, and I think the Gretzky analogy is fair -- especially as GG has decamped for the sand dunes of Phoenix. If there is a consensus, I will abide, either way. Bellagio99 (talk) 03:28, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I think "icon" is better than my previous "leader". It may not be perfect, but I think that something should ID Oscar's role in the last decades in Canada, as more than a great pianist and composer. The only parallel I could find is Gretzy but his info box is sports-focused only so I couldn't get ideas from it. When Oscar and Gretzy speaks about anything, Canadians listen. (And Peter Gzowski in the past.) Doing the York chancellorship, etc. is being an "icon" -- it's a job. Wonder what others' opinions are. YMMV. Bellagio99 (talk) 19:11, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I didn't agree with calling Peterson a "Canadian leader", but "Canadian icon" seems like a better title, and it should stay, in my opinion. As for the York chancellor box, after it was removed, I thought this article was getting some sort of "special treatment", because he died. If that box is removed it's like a broken link in a chain. Blackjays1 (talk) 15:05, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jazz icon, or Canadian icon, or both; who makes such decisions, Wikipedia users, or a concilium of jazz critics, or Canada ??

I love Oscar Peterson, his 50s trio and his 70s solo piano works are great, still other jazz pianists of his time were no less great: Art Tatum, Bill Evans, Duke Ellington to name just a few. However, outside of the narrow specialty, such as jazz piano, there are quite many supreme pianists in Canada and in the rest of the world. Glenn Gould, another Canadian genius, arguably the best Canadian pianist, and an definitive icon and role model for some classical pianists (just like Peterson is for some jazz pianists); albeit Glenn Gould's infobox does not mention him as a Canadian icon.

Louis Lortie is a great Canadian pianist, Martha Argerich, Mitsuko Uchida, Artur Rubinstein, Andre Watts, Vladimir Horowitz, Sviatoslav Richter, Sergei Rachmaninov, Van Cliburn, Murray Perahia, Maurizio Pollini, Claudio Arrau, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, Emanuel Ax, Vladimir Ashkenazy, Lang Lang, Arcadi Volodos, Daniel Barenboim are supreme pianists, each one is iconic and highly regarded musician.

Consensus among entertainers and critics simply does not exist, decisions are motivated by personal likings, politics and money, not by serious quality and beauty, sadly. Encyclopedias are to be more careful, especially in such "grey area" as mixing jazz pianists with classical pianists and declaring the best of all. Only a few of jazz pianists accomplished decent performances of high end classical piano concertos with symphony orchestras, Chick Corea's and Keith Jarrett's performances of Mozart's piano concerto No.23 are ok [2], but not even close to the superb artistry in Horowitz's famous interpretation with the La Scala Symphony: the adagio [3] and allegro [4]

None of the jazz pianists were able to perform seriously difficult piano pieces like this [5], or concertos by Franz Liszt, or the No.1 by Tchaikovsky, or No.2 and No.3 by Rachmaninov, like the 17-year-old Greek pianist Sgouros, or Kissin [6], or Bronfman [http://www.youtube.com/

We have yet to see any jazz pianist play Liszt's La Campanella like this [7], or like this [8]. Chopin's Revolutionary Etude is rarely played by jazz pianists like this take by Andre Watts, just see this [9]

Mixing Oscar Peterson with all pianists, including classical musicians mentioned above, is not serious, and does not do justice to this great jazz man.

Let Canada decide who is their national icon. Let more professionals with adequate scope, exposure and knowledge formulate definitions, ranking, and who is who. No matter how much we like some entertainers, we are just Wikipedia users, not decision makers. Steveshelokhonov 21:25, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Steve, please read my comments to your previous entry. No one is arguing about Peterson vs Horowitz, et al. The icon thing is whether he had the respect throughout the country that was more than his piano-playing and composing. There's a lot of evidence in the "Recognition in Canada" part of the Peterson page that suggests to me that it is so. (And to Blackjays1 also.) I am sorry that you had to go to the trouble of retyping your list of grant pianists, altho I found it useful and treasure the first Richter LP I ever bought about 1960. You say leave it to the experts. Well, WIkipedia doesn't work like that. FWIW, I am NOT an expert in pianism, but as a Canadian social scientist, I have a good informal expertise on national icon-ness. As for Glen Gould, an interesting guy, but so eccentric as to not achieve icon-ness. As I said, YMMV. Bellagio99 (talk) 21:36, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Steve this strikes me as rather snooty and possibly not even true. Even if it were I'm uncertain what it means that a person trained in one form of music can not do the most complicated pieces of a totally different style. Could Watts do "Blue Rondo a la Turk" justice? Maybe he could, I don't know. On details the person above me sounds like he has the right idea.--T. Anthony (talk) 10:33, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] De Marky

I edited the sentence about Paul de Marky. De Marky was not a student of Liszt (he was born 9 years after Liszt's death), but he was a student of Istvan Thoman who was a student of Franz Liszt. Batonpower (talk) 18:48, 22 January 2008 (UTC)