Talk:Ontario

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Ontario
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can we get proper maps? somthing for "northern" ontario, then something seprate for "southern" ontario? the current map is crowded, and... well, ugly. Pellaken 12:52, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Sorry about that, it's temporary. Earl Andrew 21:21, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

-- I added EDT (UTC -4) to the time zones. Is that inconsistent? --Big_Iron 10:59, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Yes. Reference to UTC -4 removed. Snickerdo 05:49, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

-- If u look at the bottom part of ontario with your head tilted to the left (west :P) it looks like an elephant hamilton being the armpit :/

Yes, and who would like to live in Owen Sound!

--

A couple of questions regarding the Demographics section:

In the summary of Ontario's demographic breakdown, "Native American" is listed as an ethnic group. Is this term to be understood as being synonymous with First Nations?

Also, might there be a more appropriate term than "Latino American"? It sounds to my ears like "Latino, and also American (in the sense of U.S.A.)." There must be better options, such as dropping the "o" to make it read "Latin American" which would emphasize people in this group being "of the Americas" (to include Canada, Guatemala, the U.S.A., etc.). Alternatively, have the terms "Latino Canadian" or "Hispanic Canadian" achieved any currency? Those seem yet more accurate.

Being neither Native nor Latino nor Canadian, I've refrained from editing the article so as to avoid stepping on toes, but don't there exist agreed-upon, less misleading/offensive terms for the many Canadian demographic groups? Joshers 08:14, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

  • I have changed "Native American" to "Aboriginal", and "Latino American" to "Latin-American". Ground Zero | t 21:34, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Also, Black is not an ethnic origin. It is either African decent, or if a further differentiation is whished, African, Caribbean, etc. In this context, it would be better to stay away from political labels as black is. --Txwikinger 23:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The New Ontario

Ontario split up into 6 seperate provinces with new capitals.
Ontario split up into 6 seperate provinces with new capitals.

I think a divided Ontario is a good idea. What does anyone else think? Dhastings 03:49, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

First of all, if Ontario was to be divided, the capital of the Eastern Ontario province would be Ottawa, not Kingston. 60% of everyone in the East lives in Ottawa. Ottawa has 9 times the population of Kingston. Why did you think of Kingston? And also, Hastings, Prince Edward and Lennox-Addington counties are almost always considered Central Ontario.
To define Eastern Ontario, draw a line segment heading north, 90 degrees from the easternmost point on Amherst Island, that starts at the US border and continues straight until Sharbot Lake, at which point it changes direction so that is moves 45 degrees (in the northwestern direction) until reaching the Ottawa River. The reason why the line is usually bent in a northwestern direction is so that the line can pass west of Pembroke. There. Everything east of that line within Ontario is Eastern Ontario.
Also, Ontario is not likely to be split up. The only parts of Ontario that are even remotely likely to become seperate provinces are Northern Ontario and perhaps Ottawa (some want a seperate national capital region like the US). Although some have proposed that Toronto become a province, such an idea is usually proposed in a tongue-in-cheek manner. But there is near-zero support for a the Southwest or Central Ontario to form seperate provinces. Also, to refer to the part of Ontario just northwest of Toronto as "Western Ontario" is misleading, as Thunder Bay (which is in Ontario, as I'm sure you know) is over 700 km west of Owen Sound (Thunder Bay is even further west than Windsor). The Ontario-Manitoba Border is much, much, much more west than the "western" area labelled on that map. --216.106.110.239 00:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Dividing Ontario may or may not be a good idea, but it would almost be impossible to acheive. In order to change the constitution you would have to get the other provinces to agree. The new provinces would get their own senators thus giving what was once Ontario more power on the federal level. I don't think the other provinces would be very enthusiastic about that. It would also screw up things like equalization and create a controversy no federal politician would want to get stuck in. From the financial perspective, it would cost more to pay for six lieutenant governors, primiers, legislatures, and the buildings required to house these governments. --Lesouris 07:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

What the hell does any of this have to do with anything factual for an encyclopedic article? Camcurwood (talk) 04:22, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

The external link about Ghost towns in Ontario does not work for me. I get a banned from site message. Attempting to access it through various proxys did not help either. This link was added in May 2005 and the same person 69.159.1.218 has added this link to numerous (mostly Canadian) other pages. I think we should delete it, but... Since it has also been added to all those other pages: Should we clean them all up? Dave 15:29, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


Thank you for adding the classifieds link guys. I sold my car there a while ago but lost the address. Big help. Thank you.

[edit] Official Language

Can someone please link a document that shows Ontario's official language, i wasn't even aware we had one.

I think saying that french has some legal status is an understatement. I think Ontario is only english (as Newfoundland is bilingual (officially)), there is sill alot of regfions that are french, and english, so maybe a rephrase? paat 20:09, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

True, while there are many heavy francophone areas in Ontario, just because the majority of citizens speak french, it does not give it any additional legal status, just like there are anglophone communities in Quebec, but Quebec's official language is still French only. but according to This there are no official languages, but english is the dominant. Also, its New Brunswick thats Bilingual, not Newfoundland

Oops i knew it was sumwhere in the maratimes. But i was just saying that stating that the french had just some legal status, wouldn't be what it should be (maybe just has a legal status. I know ottawa is now bilangual, and its starting to be sumthing in other cities too, little and a little more paat 01:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

hmm, I was under the impression that Ottawa is only bilingual because it is the capital of a bilingual nation. but continuing on, if we just wrote French has legal status, it would confuse many people who would mistake legal with official. plus, according to the link I posted above, there is no official language and English is de facto. if that is true than nothing should be written under official language.

Ottawa is bilingual also because of its proximity to Gatineau and having francophones being 1/5th-1/4 of the population.Dan Carkner 16:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Ontario is not an officially bilingual province. The only bilingual province is New Brunswick (see the Constitution of 1982). For more information on the legal status of French in Ontario, see the 1986 French Language Services Act and the summary site. Pour plusier information, regardez le Loi sur les services en français de Ontario (1986) et l'attendant site d'explication. Cleduc 21:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I think that Ontario's official language is De Facto English. I looked all over the Ontario Government website (ironically provided in French and English) and it seems to provide no information at all regarding Official Languages. However in Ontario, French does have some legal status for the following reasons:

  • The Ontario Provincial Legislature is required by Law to operate in both English and French.
  • Unlike most provinces, Ontario requires their bills to be both in French and English.
  • Most Ontario Agencies have French equivelents, serving over 23 regions.
  • Ontario's website also provides a French equivelent (excluding Quebec, only Manitoba and New Brunswick also operate Official French websites).

I'm trying to say is, right now Ontario has no official language, although it's de facto one would be English. However, if Ontario ever did adopt an official language it would probably be both English and French. CuffX 04:43, 03 May 2007 (UTC)

This, on the Ontario Government's webite: http://www.gov.on.ca/ont/portal/!ut/p/.cmd/cs/.ce/7_0_A/.s/7_0_252/_s.7_0_A/7_0_252/_l/en?docid=004564 says 'English is Ontario's official language, although French language rights have been extended to the legal and educational systems" so where do people get the concept "Ontario has no official language" or "Ontario's official language is De Facto English. I looked all over the Ontario Government website"? Cleduc above was correct.. Camcurwood (talk) 04:27, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Looking at Ontario's homepage http://www.ontario.ca/ English and French seem to be quite equal. Aaker (talk) 12:32, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] John Darnielle & Trivia

I removed the reference to John Darnielle and the Trivia section as it is nn.--J2000ca 23:26, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


See http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ca_on_fr.html http://www.hrma-agrh.gc.ca/ollo/aud-ver/province_e.asp http://www.ocol-clo.gc.ca/archives/articles/2005/anniversary_ontario_anniversaire_e.htm http://www.woodland-centre.on.ca/languages.html

[edit] New logo

Someone should probably update the provincial logo with the new one. — ceejayoz talk 18:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Land

It is stated in the introduction that "Ontario is the most populous and second-largest in area of Canada's ten provinces." However, further down the article in the grey box, Ontario is ranked as 5th overall in area. (B.C.'s article also claims 5th overall). If this holds true, Ontario would be third overall. I'm no statistician, so I wouldn't know how total area is calculated, but I do think either the introduction should be reworded, or the correct ranking be used in the box. Doing so would solve to maintain the article's integrity.--Petro 56 20:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC) Petro_56

The introduction states that Ontario is the 2nd largest in area and references the 1st reference at the end of the page. This reference (http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/phys01.htm) states that the province is at most the 4th largest in either total area or land area (i.e. area excluding water area). Therefore the fact listed in the introduction is a misrepresentation of the reference used. 65.27.149.63 05:00, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Climate

hm, I don't know if sandbanks represents the climate of ontario, why not show some farmland? far more representative I think.. Dan Carkner 16:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps a winter scene should also be shown - Ontario is not the Bahamas AlexiusHoratius 01:51, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ottawa-Montreal?

"Ottawa is the national capital, and being next to Montreal, it forms one of the largest metropolitan areas in Canada."

Perhaps this is supposed to refer to Ottawa as being next to Gatineau (which together forms the National Capital Region (a census recognized metropolitan area)? Ottawa is not next to Montreal, and the two cities certainly do not form a metropolitan area. Perhaps maybe this is in reference to its ranking in size? Either way, I think we should find a less ambiguous way of wording this. Gsmit011 20:10, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pauline Johnson

I've requested a peer review for this article. If you're interested in giving some feedback, click here. Thanks, Bobanny 00:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Francophonie

Why does the Ontario page display Francophonie?--J2000ca 03:46, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Removed navbox. --Qyd 21:09, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

When I visited Western Ontario a few years back, I found it unexpectedly Francophone. Most people were in fact bilingual, but it seemed as if French was their hearth language while English was something to speak outside the home in more formal settings. My struggles to recall high school French really seemed to relax them, no matter how stressful it was for me!

Especially, out in the far boonies there were lots of people of mixed French-Indian blood. How much has really happened out there since the Voyageurs came through and fathered children by Indian women?

Although I don't question the statistic that Francophones are a relatively small minority percentage-wise, I suspect they inhabit more of Ontario's land area than English speakers. LADave 12:14, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh dear. Well, http://www.ofa.gov.on.ca/english/stats/general2005-h.html says: "In absolute numbers, Eastern Ontario accounts for 41.3% of Ontario's Francophone population; Central Ontario accounts for 25.6%, and Northeastern Ontario accounts for 25.2%. Southwestern Ontario accounts for 6.3% of Ontario's Francophone population and Northwestern Ontario accounts for 1.6%" so in your wanderings into "Western Ontario" you must have found the 10 people that speak French. I am pretty sure the Voyaguers kids are dead now, and their offspring have been influenced by 300 years of English. :S Joking aside, we'll ignore the comment about 5% of Ontarions inhabiting more land than 80% of others. Many areas ARE very Francophone but, as the stats above confirm, they are in the east and north-east - Chochrane, Timmins, Ottawa, Cornwall. Camcurwood (talk) 04:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

I'm quite stunned at how this article doesn't cite its sources, I've spent about 2 hours citing the introduction and removing statements that I couldn't verify, to become an FA article, we must have in line citations, rather than a source for an entire 54 kilobyte (that needs workin' on too) article. Spookane 20:45, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ottawa CMA

It seems a little unfair that Gatineau is not included in the population figure for Ottawa's CMA. It includes 226,296 additional residents, most of whom live within a few kilometers from Ottawa. Although it is not part of Ontario, it makes Ottawa's metropolitan area seem about 25% smaller than it actually is. --70.81.251.32 03:39, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Economy

As of 08 August 2007 a couple of questionable claims (and not backed up) are mentioned in the 'economy' section. Moreover, these two claims seem to contradict one another! The first claims that "some" economists blame NAFTA for a decline in manufacturing (they should be listed, but I think better would be to drop this claim as Mexico is not an automobile-manufacturing powerhouse - is it?); the second blames China and India for this same phenomenon (and, more vaguely, "globalization"). NAFTA, if anything, would tend to build up the North American region's resilience against outcompetition by China or India. If anyone knows more about this than I do, I suggest he/she update the article appropriately. Dmhaglund 12:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Mexico is very big in the auto industry. Didn't GM move a whole bunch of plants down there recently to capitalize on their low wage rates and lack of a unionized labour force? Also NAFTA was heavily criticized for its impact to the manufacturing sector. I think it is very relevant, however I don't have any sources to back this up (sorry). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.245.177.172 (talk) 13:27, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "World's Busiest Highway"

As of 08 August 2007, the 401 was claimed to be the "world's busiest highway" in at least two sentences. Two references are provided, but neither actually back up this claim. The first says it is "among the world's busiest highways", which I believe. The second comes from the Toronto Sun (bias?) and says it is "probably" the busiest in the world, which I don't believe.

It's a big highway by Canadian standards, yeah, but the GTA has only some 5,000,000 people - comparing that with cities like Mexico City, Tokyo, New York City, or Jakarta - all of which have many more people and some of which have much worse infrastructure - I think this claim should be dropped. I am therefore changing the claim to "one of the busiest highways in the world," which is surely more accurate and maintains the point - that it's a busy highway! Dmhaglund 13:11, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Well the GTA comment is irrelevant since a) most of the 401 is nowhere near the GTA and b) "only" 5 million is still freaking big compared to most of the world. However, sit between Brockville and Cornwall and tell me its busy... you can't. It *IS* busy in many places, but as you mention, the 'world's busiest' is an unrealistic claim. Camcurwood (talk) 04:47, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ontario in Popular Culture

I don't think this section of the article is relevant at all. It gives one example of Ontario mentioned in a song and then a small list of a few famous people from Ontario. I've checked the articles for other provinces and states and nothing like this is included. If no one has any objections, I will remove it soon. --Lesouris 06:10, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I've removed this section. --Lesouris 07:24, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, I object. I thought that was an interesting section. Let other geographical areas include their famous artists. Musicbones 23:29, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

My problem though is that it is "Ontario in Popular Culture" not "Famous People From Ontario". A lot of famous people are from Ontario, but that doesn't mean Ontario is represented in their work. I think the whole "Famous People From..." is better suited for articles about cities and towns. I would say only include this section if you can define a general perception of Ontario in pop culture, not just a few lyrics and a list of famous people. --Lesouris (talk) 03:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. There are some people who are so, um, sheltered, that they think a lyric mentioning their city or town is noteworthy, when, uh, it's not. Camcurwood (talk) 04:50, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I think it might be note worthy to add up and coming Ontario artist David Vida, although based out of Los Angeles, they are recognized within counter culture circles of the Punk and Anti-Folk variety. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.171.1.97 (talk) 09:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] IPA

That IPA pronunciation can't possibly be right. For one thing, I think it's using a trilled r. For another, is that really how the "air" sound is transcribed? Number3Pencils (talk) 19:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Historical Importance

This appears in the section History 1896 to Present: "The sale and consumption of liquor, wine, and beer are still controlled by some of the most extreme laws in North America to ensure that strict community standards and revenue generation from the alcohol retail monopoly are upheld. In April 2007, Ontario Member of Provincial Parliament Kim Craitor suggested that local brewers should be able to sell their beer in local corner stores, however, the motion was quickly rejected by Premier Dalton McGuinty." Is this a) historical b) important c) written by Kim Craitor d) an opinion? Believe me, I am all for the loosening of alcohol laws in Ontario but I don't see how this is at all important, or maybe even true (there are many dry counties in the U.S. for example). Camcurwood (talk) 04:57, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] small NPOV edit in niagara falls box

hi folks, i just made a small edit to the box with the picture of niagara falls which stated that it is a major source of 'clean hydroelectric energy'. the inclusion of this word is problematic in two ways: first it assumes and implies that hydroelectric energy has a neutral environmental impact. secondly, it places a value judgement on the existence of the hydro facilities at niagara falls when merely stating the fact of said facilities existence (and that it supplies energy) should be the goal of a wikipedia article. therefore i edited the box to read that niagara falls is a major source of 'hydroelectric energy' (sans 'clean'). sincerely, 99.233.145.194 (talk) 03:26, 20 April 2008 (UTC)