Talk:Nezahualcoyotl

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Contents 1 extraneous?? 2 POV? 3 Historic problems 4 Anononymous editor: 71.136.93.3 5 Name glyph 6 Fair use rationale for Image:100front.jpg

[edit] extraneous??

It seems to me like the following is really extraneous to an article on Nezahualcoyotl:

First came the brutal conquest of the valley of Anahuac by Cortez and his Indian allies and then contagious diseases previously unknown in the New World. It is estimated that Mesoamerica had a population of 17 million inhabitants in 1521 (year of the conquest). The population dwindled over the next 100 years to 2 million. ¶ It was only after the Virgin Mary appeared to Juan Diego; a recently converted Indian, that mass conversions to Christianity occurred. ¶ The fact that a dark-skinned Mary, speaking the nahuatl language had appeared on the hill of Tepeyac, where the Indians previously venerated the goddess Tonantzin gave the people hope. ¶ This religious fervor is repeated every year when about 7 million pilgrims (most of them poor) make their way to the Basilica of Guadalupe on the Tepeyac mountain. Some travel hundreds of miles, walking or riding bicycles and it is not uncommon to see people completing the last few miles on bloody knees.

I suggest substituting for it something like by the conquest of Mexico by Hernán Cortés, which ushered in centuries of Spanish rule.--Lavintzin 00:12, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV?

It also looks like at least some of this article was derived from Fernando Alva de Ixtlilxochitl's history of the Chichimec people. The parts of the history concerning Nezahualcoyotl were excerpted to form a sort of biography. The problem is that Ixtlilxochitl was a descendent of the "poet-king of Texcoco", and may have attempted to whitewash his image to make it palatable to a Catholic audience. There are also many parallels between Ixtlilxochitl's biography and the Biblical story of King David. I'll see if I can't rework and expand the article a bit.--Rockero 18:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunatelly Ixtlixochitl is our main source on the life of netzahualcoyotl, so it would be difficult to ignore his accounts. But i agree the article need cleaning. MAybesome form of discalimer would be necesary. Nanahuatzin 02:42, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Historic problems

As Rockero has commented.. there is a problem with the sources about the history of Nezahualcoyotl. Ixtlixochitl was writting for an specific public : the catholic priests. In this process he made strong analogies to the story of the biblic King Solomon and King David. A king, a poet, he was persecuted in his youth, he created a great temple, he had 300 hundred comcubines. He sent to death one of his men, because he wanted his wife, he wrote poems for a unique god, he had fame as an architect, etc.

Historians have debated all this, and the general concensus is that Itxlixochitl did not actually "lied" but he made subtle changes in the history and made a very selective recall of the facts, since most of the stories seem to be verified in some way. For example compare the story of Cuacuatzin with the story of Uriah the Hittite. I think this should be included in the article Nanahuatzin 23:02, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you and an edit of this article is on my "To Do" list, as I mentioned in the Talk:Aztec article. Madman 03:28, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anononymous editor: 71.136.93.3

While your edits seem to be in good faith, you are changing some things that are factual into counterfactual information (for example tlamatini doesn't mean "follower of truth" it means "one who knows something"). And other edits simply cut information without replacing or explaining why. For example Netzahualcoyotl's ethnicity. While it may be true to call his ethnic group Acolhua (not Acolhuans), he is certainly better described as a Texcocan, unless arguments are presented for his relations to the Acolhua. If you want the Acolhua lineage to be shown, please present some arguments and preferrably sources.Maunus 21:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I do agree that Mr or Ms 71.136.93.3 should be a little less drastic with the edits, perhaps discussing them here first. As an FYI, I would also think that most sources would describe Nezahualcoyotl as of Alcohua ancestry, being the grandson of Techotlalatzin. I think that the present mention in the lead paragraph is good ("The Texcocan people were closer to the Acolhua, "). Madman 22:42, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name glyph

In Nezahualcoyotl's name glyph (seen in the image on the right), what exactly is the object being used to represent nezahual-? --Ptcamn 14:19, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:100front.jpg

Image:100front.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.Betacommand ^{(talk • contribs • Bot)} 01:17, 25 May 2007 (UTC)