Talk:Multiverse (Marvel Comics)

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[edit] Copyediting

Starting this Talk page as this article is listed wanting copyediting. I've done one pass and only made two small grammatical changes and it appears what is most needed is expansion more than changes to structure. However, that's just my opinion.Markeer 02:59, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Where the heck do all those numbers come from? A LOT of citations are needed. We need the source of the numbers. It would be good to specify the comic each universe first appeared in or a series that featured it. (Given infinite possibilities, why do the numbers generally have only three or four digits?) Wryspy 06:35, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

This article was in pretty good shape by the time I got to it, at least in terms of grammar, tone etc. I've done a light layer of additional copyediting. I'm not sure the tag is required anymore. What do people think? Metamagician3000 11:41, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Linguistically it's decent as of today, although I don't know how to remove the tag myself, my apologies. I'd say leave the tag on for another week at most then get rid of it (if someone links me the instructions I'll do it myself next week). I do think the article itself could use either a great deal of expansion to describe 'unknown number' worlds from the various issues of mainstream books, not to mention points about the common parallel worlds such as the Negative Zone, Arkon's world, etc. Either that or change the title of the article to make it simply a list of worlds with known numbers, then link it largely through the "Earth-616" article (which is itself linked in a wide variety of comics articles at the moment). As is, the article seems to be either too limited or too uncertain as to purpose. Any thoughts?Markeer 19:23, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I saw this on the Comics WikiProject box, so I did some work. I've sorted out the wikilinks (hiding the disambig brackets with piped links) and added little bits on information where I know them. Only problem I've come across is with the Marvel 1602 section - I don't know the proper way to reference a real life work, so I just put the page/issue details in a bracket at the end of the note. (Been seeing a lot of [citation needed] tags recently, so I figured, hey, I have the book, why not look it up!) If someone could sort this out for me...? Thanks Satan's Rubber Duck 02:59, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


To be really really picky - Earth-X is not a Alternative future but an alternative universe (this is revealed in paradise-x 11).

[edit] Merger

It would be a good idea to have only one page concerting this stuff. Merge JQF 18:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree they should be merged, presumably with this article being the 'main' one as it has been more thoroughly fleshed out. I'd say someone can take the info from the Multiverse (Marvel Comics) article, add it here, and then delete the other article. - Markeer 05:01, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Surely now that the list of different Earths has grown to such an extent, this page should be split in two, in a manner similar to the Multiverse (DC Comics)/List of DC Multiverse worlds...? ntnon (talk) 17:46, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Some have gotten confirmed

Some have gotten confirmed in various Handbook besides the alternate Earth one.

I know. The Alternate Universes Handbook had the most. I try and add when something was confirmed like the Exiles have confirmed the two new alternate 2099 and New universe dimensions.

Originalsinner 01:36, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More Confirmed Matters

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=33307&page=2&pp=20

"Marvel Encyclopedia Vol. 6: Fantastic Four gives quarter-page profiles to the following alternate Earths:

Earth X* Earth 1602 A.D.* Earth 2099 A.D.* Earth-A (Alter-Earth)* Earth-Bullpen Earth-Challengers of Doom Earth-Fantastic Five (Spider-Man)* Earth-Ultimate Earth-1961 A.D. Earth-Five for the Future Earth-Alternate Powers Earth-Larval* Earth-Mangaverse* Earth-MC2* Earth-Mutant X* Earth-Reed Richards' Rocket Group

The Alternate Earths Appendix covers the following:

Earth-712: Earth S* Earth-8810 (the Time Bubble, which has its own profile in the book) Earth-962: Amalgam Earth-1000 (Domination Factor #3.5) Earth-99476: Dino World Earth-312 (Exiles #35) Earth-95121 (Fantastic Force #12) Earth-95122 (Fantastic Force #12) Earth-616 Earth-6311: Other-Earth* Earth-74101: Machus Earth-7412 (merged Machus & Femizonia) Earth-9061 (FF #341) Earth-944 (FF #387) Earth-967 (FF #414) Earth-1112 (FF v3 #47) Earth-1115 (FF v3 #47) Earth-1116: Atlanterra (FF v3 #47) Earth-110 (Fantastic Four: Big Town) Earth-33 (Fantastic Four: Unstable Molecules) Earth-9511 (Last Avengers Story)* Earth-691 (Guardians of the Galaxy)* Earth-7940 (Marvel Two-in-One #50) Earth-715: Femizonia Earth-7888: Earth-M (Silver Surfer: Parable) Earth-36 (Startling Stories: The Thing: Night Falls on Yancy Street) Earth-811: Days of Future Past* Earth-774 (What If v1 #2) Earth-808 (What If v1 #22) Earth-8222 (What If v1 #31) Earth-82801 (What If v1 #34) Earth-8321 (What If v1 #37) Earth-8312 (What If v1 #42) Earth-9031 (What If v2 #11) Earth-9032 (What If v2 #11) Earth-9033 (What If v2 #11) Earth-9034 (What If v2 #11) Earth-907 (What If v2 #15) Earth-9011 (What If v2 #18) Earth-912 (What If v2 #22) Earth-917 (What If v2 #27) Earth-91111 (What If v2 #30) Earth-91112 (What If v2 #30) Earth-929 (What If v2 #41) Earth-938 (What If v2 #51) Earth-952 (What If v2 #70) Earth-9510 (What If v2 #78) Earth-969 (What If v2 #89) Earth-989 (What If v2 #89) Earth-97102 (What If v2 #100) Earth-9811 (What If v2 #114)"

[edit] Was this referenced

http://www.marvunapp.com/master/earthteaz.htm

[edit] More confirmed Earth

Earth-98151 confired in the Authority's entry in Handbook A-Z#1.

The 60's Handbook confirms Colossus' Earth-60672.

It also confirms Earth-829, Earth-6966, Earth-7888, and Earth-982.

Benny Beckley's A-Z entry confirms Earth-9997.

Blaquesmith's entry confirms Earth-4935, 811, and 295.

Bella Donna confirms Earth-9921.

Brood confirms Earth-1191.

Abraxas confirms a few.

Amhotep confirms Earth-4321.

Earth-2311 confirmed by Jack the Ripper's Horror Handbook entry.


[edit] Merged with Marvel Alternate Universe Continuum

Hello all, I merged the contents (a large majority of the content on both pages were virtually identical) of Marvel Alternate Universe Continuum into this article, and added a redirect from the other page towards this page. Please review to make sure all the contents have been assimilated correctly, I reviewed each Earth to make sure all that was listed on one page was included in the other. However, having a second pair of eyes always helps. Regards. Netkinetic 04:08, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Find editor Lesfer's comment toward editors Netkinetic and Sceptre regarding anon 67.167.58.37 here

[edit] Material removed from Marvel Comics Universe

I got rid of anything that was not redundant on the MCU page and I just added a redirect from Marvel Comics Multiverse as well j-beda 15:50, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Two different numbers for Amalgam Earth

The Amalgam Universe is referred to as 692 and 9602. Since 692 has cited references, can somebody provide a citation for 9602 or remove it? CovenantD 04:25, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that one has been visited by the Exiles' World Tour arc, but if it has then that is probably why. All the universes they are visiting, while practically identical to the ones that the readers know, are "very close approximations" and are being given new numbers. Things like the New Universe are going to start having double numbers in this list soon... Satan's Rubber Duck 13:08, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Wasn't the Amalgam Universe actually created twice? I don't have the issues handy, but a remember the Spider-Boy and Amazon stuff, but then there was the weird mergeance with characters like Bishop-Superman which I believe was in DC vs Marvel #3 which would be the Earth-9602. I believe both numbers are valid.--RedKnight 20:14, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] House of M

Where did the designation Earth-58163 for the House of M arc come from? As far as I know and can confirm (from Tom Brevoort himself) the House of M storyline is not a divergent line but was a aberrant within the Earth-616 continuity and not longer exists in any real sense.--RedKnight 15:49, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Good old Marvel. The 1602-verse wasn't an alternate universe either - it WAS 616, and even though it was given to Uatu as a pocket dimension to 'live on', it still happened as 616 - but the Marvel Handbook to Alternate Realities has given all of these various happenings their own universe number. Even things like the New Universe, and the Ultimate Universe, which are Entirely Utterly No-Crossovers-Ever Outside of the MU have been given numbers... I think we can probably blame Exiles for that! Satan's Rubber Duck 13:05, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
I hava a copy of The Official Handook Of The Marvel Universe: Alternate Universes 2005 and I do not see any entry for an Earth-58163. In fact the Ultimate Universe is not mentioned either. Is it possible that you are refering to another source?--RedKnight 21:22, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Well I remember seeing the Ultimate Universe on one of the telescreens in the Exiles' HQ, and it definitely has a number when referenced in the large hardcover encyclopedias (not the Dorling Kindersley ones, the offical Marvel ones) - I have the Fantastic Four one, though its currently 150 miles away at home so I can't double check the entry. (It's this one.) As for the House of M number... I don't honestly know, but there is a reference to it in the Captain Britain Corps article, which itself mentions it in connection to Uncanny X-Men 462, perhaps it is numbered in there? Satan's Rubber Duck 13:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that this has become a topic of debate in the ComixFan forum and the validity of this page is questionable in general but specifically to this individual entry. Tom Brevoort himself said that he suspected that this designation was probably made up. Current understanding is that the House of M did not diverge from Earth-616 but is still considered an abberation within the 616 continuity. All happenings within the House of M 'reality' were erased and did not happen. Very few within the existing 616 continuity even remember the incident. I will attempt to confirm in Uncanny X-Men #462 as you suggest, but perhaps someone else can confirm or deny this entry as my back issues are in disarray?
Further to your statement, what appears to be the Ultimate Universe on a screen in an issue of Exiles does not mean that it was the Ultimate Universe unless it is actually stated as such, but for this entry I will leave it to your judgement as I do not have the large Encyclopedia's for reference.--RedKnight 16:14, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't want to be a nit-picker or anything, but has this issue been resolved yet?

A user has restored the 58163 designation for the House of M, and added several numbers for the "joke" worlds from last year's "Wha-Huh?" Now, am I just being cynical and untrusting, or have these actually been officially stated somewhere? Chris McFeely 00:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Probably in one of the new Marvel Handbooks. Many of the old What If 'joke' worlds have been given numbers in the Encyclopedias, so it doesn't surprise me that the new ones have designations too. That said, I can't verify any of them as being correct as I don't have the material. Satan's Rubber Duck 08:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
The House of M designation number has been confirmed with the lest version of the OHTTMU: A-Z as Earth-58163. The 'joke worlds' of Wha...huh? are listed on www.marvunapp.com due to the limited subject matter have not yet and probably will not be made official and their usage is of little issue.

Personally I'm wondering where the designation for the Ultimate Universe is taken from, hopefully from somewhere else and not just the screens in the background of an issue of Exiles.

I have confirmed that Ultimate Marvel has a designation of Earth-1610, in the Fantastic Four Marvel Encyclopedia.--RedKnight 23:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
There is an outstanding argument as to whether the House of M has the designaiton of Earth-58163 or Reality-58163 (though I fail to understand the distinction)--RedKnight 23:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Well if you still want to know the difference with Earth and Reality designations that you can see in the comics. When there is Earth before the number usually means that realitys Earth and nothing else but its also used some sorces as the reality number. When they say reality and number they usually mean the whole reality not just earth. So in House of M situation it would have been Earth-58163 and not Reality-58163 as the earth was only place seen. Still many people see Earth and Reality as the same thing as Earth designation is older way to sort them out but comic book makers are starting to use Reality designation more as it really means the whole alternate reality and not just the planet Earth. --80.221.239.213 (talk) 22:54, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Earth 717

I believe this should be kept. Via Google, I've found the original Newsarama article that calls the 2005 What Ifs universe by this number - Newsarama preview - and also an interview with the writer of the first issue featuring Captain America, where he names it as Earth 717 - ComicBookResources.com interview with Tony Bedard. Satan's Rubber Duck 13:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Divergence

Most alternate realities are based on 616 until the point of divergence. Once this happens, the future is permanently turned into an alternate reality. Days of Future Past, Age of Apocalypse, Cable's future and Bishop's future are all different futures based on 616, which immediately become an alternate universe. Any attempt to travel in to the future or from the future to the past will create this, so there is no true future of 616 until it is actually written. Nothing in a future prediction story is ever destined to happen once it is created, because it branches off immediately. Jean Grey doesn't have to have any children to "fulfill the future." You could say that travelling back to prevent an event from happening does nothing except create a reality where the event already happened, while you continue in the unwritten 616 present. Snikt! is an example where Wolverine is not required to prevent anything in the present, because a different future already exists seperate from what will happen in 616. Why don't events that caused the future tend to cause it again in present day? With the amount of new variables introduced from time travellers, dimension travellers, heroes and villains being revived or retconned, and different reactions of heroes or civilians to situations, the same chain of events causing one future is unlikely to happen again.

[edit] Devos

A disambig for Devos has been created. A link points from this article to the disambiguation. Please help to fix it. Thanks. --Edcolins 21:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ben Grimm reference

I don't think the Ben Grimm reference is right. It points to the thing... Or is this correct?

"Earth-989 What If? vol. 1 #109 (1989) Ben Grimm stays in Liddleville. "

Well, Ben Grimm is The Thing in the normal (and most other) continuities so I'd assume yes. Satan's Rubber Duck 19:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

You cannot make ANY assumptions about alternate realities. Wryspy 02:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You do have a point there. Satan's Rubber Duck 16:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Earth-928 and 1191 removal?

What's up with that? This whole table is getting pretty big and we should figure out a way to make it neater, but why were these removed? - j-beda 15:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I think moving the minor What-If worlds to a seperate list (perhaps List of What If Multiverse designations?) what do well, as there are hundreds of them, seen in print once or twice then forgotten. Satan's Rubber Duck 16:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I think an entirely new list may be a bit much. Breaking up this list into a few categories would make much more sense. 69.183.124.119 19:12, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I've put 928 and 1191 back in after looking at the Alternate Universes Handbook. They are in there so they rightfully should be returned in here. Originalsinner 23:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Omniverse

Where is the proof of this? It sounds fictional and created by a vandal. Please post a link prooving the existance of this bizzare Universe known as the Omniverse.

  • Can't link to a Marvel Handbook... actually this is what appeared in the appendix of the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Alternate Universes. [1]. That site is by the guy who writes the Official Marvel Handbooks.

Originalsinner 23:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Earth-2005117?? Cite!

Waiiiit a second. Earth-what now? Is someone making up numbers? Whether OHOTMU Alternate Universes or Exiles or some other canonical source, there need to be citations on these. Otherwise just don't give them numbers. -HKMarks 04:08, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Seriously. These are clearly just based on the broadcast dates for the pilot episode - google yields no hits for these Earth names except this article itself and mirrors of it, and I can't imagine what Marvel publication would have featured them. The same, quite frankly, applies to all the "What If" and "Wha-Huhs" that have been added in recent memory. I'm very, very tempted to just remove these until cites are offered. - Chris McFeely 02:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Movie Universes

i know we have them for the Spiderman movies and the X-men movies but what about all the other Marvel Movies.... origional spiderman, Hulk, Fantastic four... and many more earlier ones... do they not get there own universe??? --- 88.108.244.99 11:08, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Typically Movie adaptations are considered non-continuity. One issue with giving them designations is that interaction between the various characters and teams, which should be possible, would not be likely due to the various production companies involved in the making of the films; for example Spider-Man is distributed by Sony, X-Men is distributed by 20th Century Fox. With this factor in place, what should typically be a single Earth designation for the movies would end up requiring multiple designations. Simply put, do to their independence from the comic book stories, Earth designations are simply not needed.--RedKnight 22:57, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Devil Dinosaur

According to this article, both 78411 and 7841 are the home Earth of Devil Dinosaur, with the same reference title for both. Which is it? Darquis 05:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revision 2/3/2007

Just revised the entire listing, verifying either the original source of the number ("First numbered") or a canon reference where they confirm a possibly pre-existing number ("Numbered"). I also deleted several universes from the listing that were unofficially designated by the Appendix site (or other fans), but not yet confirmed in OHOTMU. I haven't gone through the All-New OHOTMU, so I don't know all the universe numbers that were designated in there. JEB215 04:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Just revised it again, deleted more unverifiable numbers, need a source on Earths 295 and 58163 (I know I've seen them somewhere, but I don't have a specific source). Everything else on this list is sourced, directly or indirectly. Also added Earth-617 (from the recent Doc Samson mini). JEB215 06:36, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Found the reference for 58163. JEB215 07:00, 4 February 2007 (UTC) And for 295. Now it's completely sourced. JEB215 07:05, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Marvel animated universe

does anyone know which universe is for Marvel animated universe, which had the 1990's animated showsGman124 05:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

It has not yet been given a number in any canon source that I'm aware of. I know the Adventures of the X-Men comic suggested it was the universe that existed before the current Earth-616 universe (the one Galactus came from), but no number was provided. JEB215 04:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
This would include the older Marvel Age titles and all the new series under the Marvel Adventures banner which are aimed at a younger audience.--RedKnight 01:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Update: Just added "Earth-9411" from the All-New OHOTMU #7. It's only 100% the world of the U.K. Spectacular Spider-Man comic, but that comic is based on the Spider-Man animated series, which premiered in November 1994. So I'd say it's a pretty safe guess that this is the Marvel Animated universe. JEB215 01:27, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I would be careful with this designation as obviously not all animated features could possibly take place on one Earth--RedKnight (talk) 00:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Marvels/Ruins

Have those alternate realities been marked yet? - !Malomeat 22:45, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe Marvels is considered part of main (Earth-616) continuity.--RedKnight 18:55, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] universes without numbers

I think we should include a mention of universes that don't have numbers, such as the universes of the various animated series, video games and movies. Does anyone agree with me? 218.215.146.184 01:47, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I´m not sure. Some may coexist, but it´s hard to differentiate. - !Malomeat 01:43, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Agreed, unless a different section is desired to list issues which display universes that do not appear to fit into the current list... but then the article begins to resemble a forum, which is not desirable.--RedKnight 01:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Earth-9904

Added Earth-9904, What if #9 "What if the Avengers were formed in the 1950s"--RedKnight 18:56, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Emplate's dimension

What about Emplante's dimension? As we see in Generation-X, M's vampiric brother is connected to a dimension filled with creatures that torture him. And then we have Dormammu's dimension. And What about Dormammu and Mephisto?

Dormammu is the self-proclaimed lord of the Dark Dimension, Mephisto is the ruler of an extradimensional realm of Hell.--RedKnight (talk) 00:09, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Earth-82432

I don't know how to edit, but I thought I would tell you guys that that universe was featured in What if (Vol.1) #32 April 1982 (What if the avengers had become pawns of Korvac). So maybe one of you who know how to edit it can. Lustpuppet 15:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)Lustpuppet

As far as I know the story did not receive a specific designation--RedKnight (talk) 23:53, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I stand corrected, Earth-82432 is the designation for the Earth you mention.--RedKnight (talk) 00:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Duckworld

How can you possibly forget Howard the Duck in all of this mess? His planet of origin, Duckworld, is described in The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #5 (H-J) as "the alternate Earth known only as Duckworld. Fukuto.jones 18:24, 6 October 2007 (UTC) f.j

Duckworld resides in an alternate dimension and I have added an entry for it--RedKnight (talk) 00:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
No Duckworld is alternate reality so it can't be listed in dimension listing and as its designation is not revealed it can't be added to the reality list. --80.221.239.213 (talk) 22:45, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Captain Britain

I'm pretty sure it's incorrect to say the Multiverse started with issues of Captain Britain. It started with Alan Moore's Captain Britain stories in issues of Mighty World of Marvel, I think.Hobson 01:03, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe you are correct, but can you provide a specific issue for a more direct occurance?--RedKnight (talk) 00:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

How do you make a new topic? Anyway shouldnt the first app. for Earth-616 be Marvel Comics 1 (1939) ?