Talk:Modern Age of Comic Books

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Does anyone remember (or did anyone figure out) why there were 52 earths in the multiverse? I think this would be a really neat fact to put in the timeline with the entry, and I'm pretty sure the reason was somewhere in the 52 series, but either I never figured it out from the clues or I've forgotten it. --Supergirl 12 June 2007

There is no reason given in the comic. All that is stated is that Mr. Mind destroys many of them and 52 are left. It is a big enough number so that it can include formerly recognized earths as well as creatively leaving room for new ones. It was obviously chosen in reference to the name of the series and explains some of the references made to the number 52.--Leocomix 13:26, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

If I knew enough, I'd update the article myself, but I do note that Warren Ellis, a fairly prolific author, hasn't been mentioned here at all. Also, I wonder why Science Fiction exists only as a footnote on Swamp Thing. Everything I read I'd catagorise as Science Fiction, if I knew more of how it became important (again), I'd probably buy more of the classics of the field. Any takers for writing bits of this in? --Eternal Confusion 11:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The Modern Age, Dark Age, or whatever starts in the mid-1980's. I've never seen the term used to refer to the period from 1970 onwards, and only sections 1.1 and a single sentence from section 1.2 have anything to do with the period before 1985. Even then, most things that happened before 1985 didn't become trends until later (Wolverine didn't get a regular series until after 1985, and the Punisher didn't even get a miniseries until 1985; and X-Men spinoffs only became a trend after 1985 even though New Mutants was an isolated instance before that.) Ken Arromdee 30 June 2005 14:28 (UTC)

Absolutely! This article ignores the Bronze Age period (c. 1970-1985) by conflating it with the Modern Age (1986-?) The Bronze Age saw a number of changes to DC's heroes, including: Clark Kent left the Daily Planet to become a newscaster at WGBS-TV; Robin left Batman to attend college; Wonder Woman lost her powers (when the amazons left Earth), then regained them (thanks in part to Gloria Steinem); and Green Lantern started hanging out with Green Arrow. Not to mention the introduction of Jack Kirby's Fourth World. The Bronze age ended with Crisis on Infinite Earths.

I'm less familiar with Marvel Comics, but for them the Bronze Age began with the Spider-Man drug-abuse story (the first from a major publisher to see publication without the Comics Code Authority's approval) and ended with Secret Wars. Also, Dell Comics collapsed, leaving DC and Marvel with no real competition for two decades.

The Modern Age began (for DC) with Watchmen and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns and the post-crisis revamps, and saw the rise of "grim and gritty" stories for both DC and Marvel. Some would argue that the Modern Age has ended, with the present (post-modern?) age beginning with the fading of the grim-and-gritty style, and/or with the end of the collector-driven comics market of the mid-1990s.

Comments? Suggestions?
--Archola

Yes, that's what I think. The age that began in the mid-eighties (Dark Age, Iron Age, Modern Age or whatever) finished in the late-nineties/early-00s. Or are we suposed to call the Modern era the period from the mid-eighties to the end-of-times? This article began considering the Modern Age begining in the seventies, ignoring the Bronze Age, now I think we have a similar problem with the mid-eighties to late-nineties period. 88.24.224.60 12:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed! There should be two articles - one for bronze and one for modern. Whoever wrote this first got confused. The bronze age runs from the early 70's to (well it varies depending on which company, but the articles can reflect this). The modern age runs from the early/mid-80s to now.

Also, I think the diamond age of comics sometimes refers to the newspaper strips/comics that appeared before the golden age. I've never heard it used as another name for the 80's. rst20xx

Re. 'the Diamond Age' and this sentence: "the Diamond Age of Comic Books (suggested by Scott McCloud, because of the new diversity found in the medium)": I'd have to look up an actual reference for this, but I was of the impression that the 'diamond' in 'the Diamond Age' actually refered to Diamond Comics, the distributors of practically all comic nowadays and was used to signify the shift in power from the publishers to the (sole) distributor (to the direct market). Demos99 13:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
But the monopoly of Diamond Comics didn't begin until the mid nineties, I remember buying my comics using the Advance Comics of Capital in the early nineties before Diamond an his Previews became the only way to buy your books. So, if the modern age beging in mid-eigthies and the Diamond momopoly in mid-nineties, there's almost one decade of Modern Age that's not Diamond Age by this definition. 88.24.224.60 12:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

You are absolutely right. I have heard the Modern Age called the Diamond Age as well because of the influence of Diamond and it deserves to be called the Diamond Age. The real issue is that with all the changes occurring due to Infinite Crisis and Civil War, is this the beginning of a new age? Perhaps it should be called the Iron Age because it was Iron Man who prompted Spider-Man to take off his mask. --Maple Leaf 13:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC)Maple_Leaf


Contents

[edit] Film entry

I cleaned-up the film adaptation section of the article, trying to concentrate on how they affected the comics. Also, I eliminated the references to cartoon shows because superhero cartoons are not a new development of the Modern Age. Rorschach567

[edit] POV in timeline

There are too many superlatives and POV statements in the timeline (although I agree the dates are appropriately significant). Ok to make them more NPOV? --Happylobster 20:18, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Why does the timeline start at 1970 while the article states that this period begins in the mid-80s. Very inconsistent. ike9898 13:21, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
The timeline starts at 1970 because the original article seems to have been written by someone who doesn't recognize the existence of the Bronze Age (which runs roughly 1970-1985). The statement that the period begins in the mid-80's was added/changed by someone who does recognize the Bronze Age. That's why the inconsistency.
What we should do is create a Bronze Age article and just get rid of the references to 1970 in here. But it's too easy for naysayers to kill the article by selectively demanding references that aren't demanded for Gold/Silver/Modern. Ken Arromdee 14:21, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Source

Does anyone have a source for this statement?

The Modern Age is the most widely used name for the period following the Silver Age of Comic Books.

Ken Arromdee 18:55, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Since we've gone four months without anyone coming up with a source for the statement, I've deleted it.
I also think that this article's attempt to use "Modern Age" to cover everything from the 1970's onwards is absurd. It seems like the article is written by someone who doesn't like the phrase "Bronze Age" and is grasping at straws to justify not having an age between Silver and Modern. Much of the article refers to trends that only became trends in the mid-1980's. Ken Arromdee 13:55, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article too DC/Marvel centric?

I feel it is. Horror comic books are big business these days, for example, as are many other alternative genres besides just superheros. There is one brief mention about horror comics, but even then it's in the context of Marvel's 70s entry into the genre. There is no mention of IDW at all. No mention of Dark Horse aside from it's position in the timeline. And very little about Vertigo. Of course superhero books still make up the mainstream of the market and should have more information about them. But at the same time you can't talk about modern age of comics and not include the alternative genres. if agreed I will try to add some more information. --MateoP 03:21, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Your comments were very useful. I have edited the page to include mentions of Dark Horse in 1992 with Star Wars: Dark Empire and 1993 with Comics Greatest World. I mention Warren Ellis in 1994 and David Lapham's Stray Bullets in 1995. Although I am not enough of an expert on alternative comics, a whole new page could be devoted to the genre.--Maple Leaf 14:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree. The changes at Marvel and DC didn't happen in a vacuum. Actually, what marks the Modern Age is that the content of the story comes from outside influences. Miller's stories are influenced by manga and Eisner. Moore is influenced by Underground and Harvey Kurtzmann. While editor control clamped Marvel's creativity, the existence of independent publishers allowed some creators to create groundbreaking stories, especially at First Comics, with Mike Grell's Jon Sable Freelance, Chaykin's American Flagg. In 1985, First Comics had four series in the top ten in the CBG awards. The use of the panel as a TV screen later used by Miller in Dark Knight was created by Chaykin in American Flagg. Later, Chaykin, Grell and Truman (all from First) were going to step up maturity in stories and redefine/re-energize long-time characters with Longbow Hunters, Blackhawk and Hawkworld. Most top writers of today came from outside the mainstream (Bendis, Morrison, Brubaker) and this applies also to Straczinsky, Guggenheim and Meltzer. See also what I say in th talk page of Bronze Age.

[edit] Bronze Age

I've just created an article for the Bronze Age of Comic Books. Perhaps the information in this article dealing with the 1970s and early 80s can be moved there. Iron Ghost 04:30, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Problems with this article

It deals only with comics issues and characters and omits events in the backstage like "speculations", "variant covers", new comics companies, conventions, magazines. For instance the new fandom movement characterizes the Silver Age. Creator-owned series started in the Silver Age but became mainstream in the modern age. What about Cerebus, Strangers in Paradise and other long-going creator owned-series? There is also a point. It's a bit too close to the present to state that the modern age is still continuing. There are already terms for current comics like neo-silver. This started with "1963", "Marvels" and Alan Moore's "Supreme". For instance "Infinite Crisis" (restoring pre-crisis continuity) could be the marker of a new age for DC. Because it's too close to know yet, I think we should not include events from before 2006 or even from before 2000 in this article. --Leocomix 17:44, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps the focus is on Marvel and DC comics because the "Ages" have, from the beginning, been attributed almost exclusively to superhero comics, which make up the lion's share of the comic market. I do agree that the "greed factor" that plagued the industry during to 90's and the effect it had on the industry should be included. -RB 24.163.208.79 05:09, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

That is true. Actually "Golden Age" and "Silver Age" were first used in the sense "Golden Age of superheroes" and "Silver Age of superheroes". So we need to refine the definition: i.e. it applies to mainstream publishers or it applies to super-heroes. --Leocomix 08:55, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Contains "This will fail also". Is this a correct entry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.233.146.11 (talk) 23:00, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:22, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Source?

I don't know much about citing sources at all, but couldn't this be used as a source?

http://scifipedia.scifi.com/index.php/Modern_Age_of_Comics

I mean, maybe not much of it, as it talks a lot about DC's continuity changes, but still for something I would think. Spirit Stiff (talk) 01:08, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

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