Talk:Melchizedek

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Major revision of article. I added a detailed historical section. 217.225.12.236 21:40, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)Eypper217.225.12.236 21:40, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] How to NPOV?

"Whether he actually existed as a person or as an abstraction remains a mystery."

At the moment, this sentence is POV (e.g. Bible literalists will not consider it a mystery). — Matt 18:21, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I think you need to look up what NPOV means. (anon)
Why? — Matt Crypto 12:17, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Because if you take even the most general timeframe for this story as Genesis:12 and the battles therein described, then Melchizdak cannot be the king of the city of Jerusalem. Jerusalem (URU Uri Šalim KI) is still no more than a fortified well in the time of the Amarna letters. Melchizdek is at best a commander of a garrison. The NPOV must at a minimum pay some attention to known historical facts or the whole encyclopedias credibility is tarnished.Rktect 21:07, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Biblical literalism may be a legitimate thesis. Once you strip the religious gloss away, most of the Old Testament is reasonably consistent with historical and archaeological textual artifacts such as the form of contracts and the price of slaves which can be used to date it. Given that it makes no sense to contradict the historical and archaeological foundations of said consistancy by making claims for fantasies that don't agree.Rktect 21:07, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Because biblical literalism is a fringe view with no evidence. NPOV policy applies to differing mainstream viewpoints that are supported by evidence. --Rob117 04:15, 7 August 2005 (UTC)


One does not need to subscribe to anti-biblical literalism to create a NPOV entry. In fact, such a stance being represented seems to be entirely POV unless sources can be cited. I am new here, and I have appreciated the NPOV stance of this community quite a bit. This article is in error in that there are a few things that are still held as debatable, and without citation. This goes directly against Wikipedia's NPOV policy. Until the claim regarding the "majority of biblical scholars" is substantiated, it should be omitted. To make a blanket statement such as "biblical literalism is a fringe view with no evidence" without defining your terms or providing any substantiation to the grand accusation you have made, is an error at best. Can we agree that unless a controversial statement can be substantiated by reputable sources, it should be omitted from a wiki article? It seems like this is the CORE of the NPOV policy. --Zipfool 20:41, 14 April 2007 (UTC)::

[edit] Most Bible Scholars

I fail to see any evidence that this is most bible scholars. All non-Christian? all non=Jewish? all non-Moslem? Has the writer of this article been devoted to Shinto scholars of the Hebrew Bible as the majority!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Elijah Michael (talk • contribs) 03:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Historical Melchizedik

What is this section? It seems to be solely one man's (completly surmised) account of an occurance, which could have many historical explanations. It ought to be a paragraph long at the most and suplemented by other historian's views. Or at the very least this stuff should be explained: What evidence is there that Melchizedek refers to an 'El-elyon' rather than Yahweh (Who is also refered to as El throughout the bible, anyway). Why would an 'outside source' be inserted into the bible? Why? Why? I think this article is in severe need of cleanup.

It is an essay presenting someone's personal opinion. Actually to me it feels like a copyvio - can someone look in the Anchor Bible to see how much of this text is here? Whatever the result of that check, this section is unacceptable. I propose wholesale deletion. --Zero 12:28, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I agree; whether personal essay or copyvio, it should be deleted. This person did the same thing to tithe, which should probably get the same treatment. Jayjg (talk) 16:02, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I found it amusing reading this article for the first time. Where only a moment earlier I read of Melchizedek mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and then this paragraph saying there is NO mention of him anywhere else except for the Bible. It should be revised.[mauger@gmail.com]

[edit] To NPOV:

I removed this from the article for now:

As a commentary on Psalm 110, Hebrews is important in New Testament theology, but, written over a thousand years after the Melchizedek episode, it has nothing to contribute to the historical discussion."

POV, really: Hebrews has nothing to contribute to the historical discussion unless (for example) you believe Hebrews to be the inspired word of God. Is there a point here that's worth salvaging and reinserting in NPOV form? — Matt Crypto 09:27, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

All scripture in the New Testiment is the inspired Word Of God. The Bible even says so.[mauger@gmail.com]


Melchezedek is the son of Seth his mother is Edokla, he is one "born of the Word" as per John 1 v1

[edit] Indian reference

What is Melik-Sadaksina doing on this page? Shouldn't it be on its own page? If people believe Melchizedek was this other guy, then perhaps we should cross-reference them. Otherwise, I don't think it belongs here at all. Jgardner 18:48, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dominion of Melchizedek

I believe the link to Dominion of Melchizedek and other things with references to Melchizedek are highly relevant. Please voice your concern if you don't think so. Jgardner 00:00, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Mr. Jgardner: Instead of voicing her concern see removed it without explanation after she just finished saying that she doesn't know anything about this subject.KAJ 07:14, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

I think there should be a link to the DOM and their Melchizedek Bible, ev en if not directly relevant to the original Melchizedek.

-- Beardo 05:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

DOM is at least as relevant to Melchizedek as Morman teaching about Melchizedek which is in this article. Their Bible includes the Genesis verses about Melchizedek and is named after that Biblical character. A micronation named after the Biblical character deserves a reference here. Harvardy 05:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't see anyone objecting to it on the talk page. I don't mind at all. Just make sure it focuses on Melchizedek as a person and his history/the beliefs about him specifically within DOM. Wrad 15:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Old Testament/New Testiment

The last part of the section on the Old Testiment and the section on the New Testiment are cut and paste straight from another website of essays from a person. It may be copyright. at least there shuld be a link or reference to the site. http://www.crystalinks.com/melchizedek.html. Could someone let me know if the etiquette for editing. Shoud these sections go in the order of the article or the order they are inserted. TY [mauger@gmail.com]

[edit] Urantia

An anon added a "See also" section referring to Paper 93 of The Urantia Book. In so doing, he or she (possibly inadvertently) deleted some information including categories and links to other language wikis. Never having heard of The Urantia Book, and thinking that the new section read like one of those breathless flyers that is pasted on telephone poles, I then deleted the entire section and restored the earlier version. Then I went and read the linked "Paper 93" and the rest of the urantia.org website (and the Urantia article here) and discovered that this is in fact an established, er, thing. So I restored as much of the information as I felt belonged in this encyclopedia entry. Apologies to the anon for hastily calling the addition "utter nonsense"; following this investigation I would upgrade the characterization to mere "crank." -EDM 08:28, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

The entry referenced above was extremely incomplete and potentially confusing. I replaced it with a paragraph very briefly summarizing some of the key concepts from The Urantia Book related to Melchizedeks and, specifically, Machiventa Melchizedek, the Melchizedek said by the book to have been a supernatural associate and inspiration to Abraham during a major part of his lifetime. This seems reasonable in view of the vast amount of inconsistent and confusing beliefs of various religions about Melchizedek, as presented earlier in the article. You may think it's "crank" but it at least makes a degree of historical and cultural sense. LDM [ldmjr@comcast.net] 16:50 22 October 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Merger

I think that the article Melchizedek Priesthood (Christianity) should be merged into this one. There needs to be one article about the Priesthood, and one about Melchizedek himself, in my opinion. the sections describing Melichizedek as a person should be moved to this article. Many parts of these articles seem to have directly copied and pasted from each other.Wrad 20:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I just erased most of the duplicated information on the other website. I don't know if much else needs to be done. Wrad 00:33, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Organization

As it is, I think this Article has a lot of good info, but that it could be organized better. Other Biblical characters, such as David, are carefully organized to shows the facts and points of view of different religions. I think we have the info, just not the organization. Wrad 01:01, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Relevance of Heb. 7

I deleted a paragraph interpreting the Dh in terms of Heb.7 - i.e., questioing the theories of scholars concerning the passage in Genesis on the grounds that Hebrews says something to the contrary. The author of Genesis can hardly have been aware of the opinion of the author of Hebrews, and the line of thought is frankly unscholarly (tho I can see that if you believe that God inspired both Genesis and Hebrews, then it's QED, but that line of reasoning is not open to biblical scholars). Anyway, the paragraph doesn't belong in a section discussing scholarly theories about the origins of the passage in Genesis. PiCo 17:27, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

  • There are a lot of problems with that section. It isn't really a "scholarly" section at all. Maybe making the section better organized would better support your deletion. As it is, I don't really see how it was a bad paragraph. It was a theists vs. scholars type debate. Maybe we need a scholar section and a Jewish section, or something. Wrad 18:00, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aaronic priesthood

Where does the reference to "Aaronic priesthood" come from. There is no discussion of the meaning of this term and there is no link for further information about it. What is Aaronic priesthood and why is its relation to Melchizedek priesthood important. This sounds like a reference to LDS belief, but it is not clearly marked as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.83.184.211 (talk) 19:40, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Melchizedek's name can be translated (from Hebrew) either as Zedek is my king or as My king is righteous."

This isn't quite true. The yud is the hiriq compaginis expressing a genitive relationship (see GKC [Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar] section 90l), an archaic form sometimes seen in poetry and names. For example, in Ps 110:4, the other verse relating to Melchizedek, we get, "You are a priest forever according to the _order of Melchizedek_ (divrati melchizedek)." The name should be translated, "Zedek's king" or "King of righteousness." (We would leave Zedek untranslated probably only if we assume that it refers to the Phoenician or South Arabian deity of that name, cf Skinner, Genesis 267-8). The same is true for the name Adonizedek (Lord/Prince of Righteousness), and for a good deal of names throughout the Bible (e.g. Melchi-el [deut 8:16], Hani-el [num 34:23]).

For further discussion, see Horton, The Melchizedek Tradition (CambridgeUP, 1976), 42-45. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dpmusic85 (talk • contribs) 00:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Catholic Bible is not Hebrew Tanakh

I am not an expert nor I want to start any sterile debate. The Bible (from greek βιβλία = biblìa, plurale di biblìon, means books) is a common definition of two books one is a sacre book of the Hebrew and one of the Christian religion. If this is accepted (being consolidated), Tanàkh and Bible are derived from the same sources BUT are not the same book. Nor is the Bible derived by Tanakh which was an oral tradition. Therefore to unilaterally state that the Christian Bible is the Hebew Tanakh is a mistake. you can draw plenty of litherature from univrtisty and vatican itself . To mention one and not the other would be therofore a mistake and inaccurate. Specifically from the Vatican web page www.vaticano.vc "Nelle traduzioni in lingua moderna della Bibbia, specialmente cattoliche, sono compresi alcuni libri e passi che si riscontrano nella antica traduzione greca, detta dei LXX; questi libri vengono generalmente chiamati «apocrifi» o «deuterocanonici». " transaltion: "In the modern translation of the Bible, specially Catholic, are included books and passes , derived from the old greek translation, named of LXX, books generally sail "deuterocanonical". The Lone RangerHit me with a good one! 22:19, 27 April 2008 (UTC)