Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Korea-related articles)

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please see Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Korean) for previous exciting discussions. Appleby 01:25, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Conflict with WP:UE 2 Question about the title of this book 3 Hangul and Hanja 4 Three Reasons to Include Hanja for Person's Names and Place Names 5 Sort keys for categories 6 Dates & Calendars 7 Why does Wikipedia have to follow Revised Romanization of Korean? 8 Bold and italic Hangul characters 9 Move proposal

[edit] Conflict with WP:UE

As there's currently a conflict of this guildeine with Wikipedia:naming conventions (use English), I have requested to add an exception clause there at its talk page. Please raise your opinion and suggestions. — Instantnood 20:20, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question about the title of this book

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/archives/tomjerryanime3.jpg = What is the title of this book? I want to add the title to the Tom and Jerry and Minky Momo articles - I also would like the Korean characters for the title and the transcribing of them in RR and MR. EDIT: klutzy revealed an English-language title: "Magical Princess Minky & Tom & Jerry" WhisperToMe 06:59, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Here you go... Hangul = 요술공주 밍키 / 톰과 제리; Hangul with Hanja = 妖術公主 밍키 / 톰과 제리; RR: Yosul Gongju Mingki / Tom gwa Jeri; MR: Yosul Kongju Mingk'i / T'om kwa Cheri -- Calcwatch 07:37, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! :) WhisperToMe 16:28, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hangul and Hanja

In the two bulleted examples, there are two parentheses. Are they supposed to be there? Hangfromthefloor 22:24, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Good catch. I don't think so. Wikipeditor 03:09, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

A quick check of the [Wikipedia] shows that Hanja is extensively used for identifying proper names. It is also frequently used in newspapers for disambiguation. "South Koreans rarely use it, even for place names or personal names." should be changed to "South Koreans use it extensively in written communication when initially identifying place names and personal names."

"For Hangul, the basic rule of thumb is that there are spaces between words that are each 2 or more syllables in length, while there is no space between 2 one-character words or between a one-character word and a 2-or-more-character word. (The rules are of course actually much more complicated than this and depend upon the grammatical categories of the words in question, but this rule of thumb generally holds for nouns, which constitute most of the words in article titles." This is inaccurate and confusing. Syllables and characters are not the same thing. Is the author addressing Chinese (Hanja) characters or individual letters in Hangul? This paragraph should be deleted.

"While Hangul and mixed script (Hangul and Hanja together) use spaces between words, text written only in Hanja is usually written without spaces. Thus, gosok doro ("freeway" or "motorway") is written as 고속 도로 (with a space) in Hangul, but as 高速道路 (without a space) in Hanja." This is also incorrect. Hanja is only used to clarify the meaning behind the specific syllable being used because the phonetic Hangul alphabet can create confusion; a given spelling may have multiple meanings--think read and read in English, as in, "I will read the book," and "I have read the book." It is always possible to spell anything in Korean using solely Hangul. Only words with a Chinese origin have Hanja equivalents and gosok doro is not 'spelled' with a space in Hangul anymore than it is when the Hanja characters are substituted for the Hangul syllables. It could be "go sok do ro", or "gosokdoro", or "go sokdo ro" for all the difference it makes. However, "gosok doro" provides a non-Korean speaker a guide to the approximate cadence of the term in English. Therefore, the rule of thumb--for article titles--should be to place a space in between four or more romanized syllables or as necessary to facilitate the pronunciation in English. Christopher North (talk) 19:21, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Three Reasons to Include Hanja for Person's Names and Place Names

• 1. To assist in disambiguation of names
• 2. To assist persons who may be more familiar with Chinese or Japanese to follow the names in an article
• 3. To facilitate scholarship

Doc Rock 13:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sort keys for categories

There does not appear to be a guideline for how to set sort keys when categorizing South Korean sub-categories within general categories. The two options are:

• Use "South Korea" as with Category:Military of South Korea within Category:Military by country.
• Use "Korea, South" as with Category:Religion in South Korea within Category:Religion in Asia.

I prefer the second option in that I usually think of "Korea" first when searching for a South Korean subcategory while "South" is an afterthought. It also has the side effect of having general Korean, South Korean, and North Korean subcategories close together in the category list. On the other hand, it may confuse readers if searching by "South Korea" is more common.

Standardizing the sort key order is probably a good idea so that people aren't not confused when South Korean categories appear in either "K" or "S" apparently at random (same goes for North Korean categories). What does everyone think the standard sort order should be? YooChung 01:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I prefer "Korea, South" (and of course "Korea, North"), for the reasons you have given. -- Visviva 10:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Category sort keys do not appear as text and are only used for sorting pages and subcategories within categories. It determines which letter it appears under (the first letter of the sort key) and determines the order in the list. So there's no difference between using "Korea, South" and "Korea, North" and using "Korea, Republic of" and "Korea, Democratic People's Republic" (unless another Korea appears), and the former is shorter. I don't like "Republic of Korea", since it would take me a while to think to search under R, and even longer to think of searching under D for North Korea. This might just be me, however. YooChung 05:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

More people seem to prefer to have "Korea" come first in the sort key, so I will write out that "Korea, South" and "Korea, North" should be the standard category sort key in the manual, unless anyone raises a serious objection. I will specify "South" instead of "Republic of" because 1) sort keys are not visible, so there's no difference, 2) everything else uses "South Korea" and "North Korea", so a change should be a matter of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean) rather than the manual style, and 3) "Korea, North" and "Korea, South" are a lot faster to type than "Korea, Democratic People's Republic of" and "Korea, Republic of" (and I keep on omitting the "of"s and forgetting what the D stands for ...). YooChung 06:18, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I wrote a categorization section for the style manual. YooChung 10:11, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dates & Calendars

I'm working on some articles related to the Imjin War and have encountered a confusing mess where calendar and date usage is concerned. Rarely is the calendar being used noted (Japanese lunar, Julian or Gregorian). It would be very helpful to non-specialist editors (like me) to have some consensus guidelines on what system to use (and during what periods), how to present the preferred calendar and note the corresponding date in another system (where sources may often employ the latter), and some notion of how to convert from one to the other. Thanks, Askari Mark (Talk) 01:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree that this needs to be addressed. I would suggest using solar (Gregorian) dates throughout, with lunar dates and regnal years in parentheses or footnotes if appropriate. Also, the MoS should point out that *if* lunar dates are mentioned, they should absolutely never use solar month names -- i.e., that the 10th lunar month is simply the "tenth lunar month," not "October." Although perhaps there is a more appropriate MoS subpage on which to address that particular issue. -- Visviva 07:03, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why does Wikipedia have to follow Revised Romanization of Korean?

Why does Wikipedia have to follow Revised Romanization of Korean? RRoK is not that well-known romanization. McCune-Reischauer is the most well-known Korean romanization system. Thus we should use M-R Romanization system instead of RRoK. --­ (talk) 22:50, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bold and italic Hangul characters

Should bold or italic type be used for Hangul characters? --88.78.227.239 (talk) 18:50, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Move proposal

See Talk:Ume#Requested move. Badagnani (talk) 04:51, 27 March 2008 (UTC)