User talk:Loremaster/Archive01

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Welcome to Wikipedia

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

Here are some tips to help you get started:

Good luck!
Jrdioko

P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).

Thank you. Loremaster 04:21, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

About the trolls

Greetings, you seem to be a rather sensible person from your comments on the transhumanism talk page. Let me tell you from my experience with both the Vogel and Spade users/trolls they are cordinating their activities and they do not really care about the facts. good luck GrazingshipIV 00:29, May 5, 2004 (UTC)

Cutting of the elm

Could you look at this Priory of Sion related article, Cutting of the elm. Is there any evidence that there ever was any Priory of Sion? Rmhermen 21:22, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

The modern Priory of Sion is a hoax. However, there was a religious order known as the Order of Sion. Please read Priory of Sion: the Facts, the Theories, the Mystery for more information. Loremaster 00:39, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Help request

Please take a look at the Talmidaism page which Jayjg has marked for deletion. After being foiled in an attempt to merge the article with the Nazarene page, Jayjg is now bent on deleting it entirely. He is trying to accomplish as an administrator what he could not do as an editor. Please help prevent a hi tech lynching. Thanks. --Ovadyah 14:45, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

You seem to be doing a good job editing and keeping the predators off the Ebionites page. Would you be willing to work with me to expand the modern movements section and include Talmidi Judaism as a subset? We seem to be clustering into two warring camps on the VfD. Some, following the suggestion of Ebionite Community leader Shemayah Phillips, want to condense the article and merge it into Ebionite modern movements. The others in the Jayjg camp want to expunge any mention of Talmidi Judaism entirely from Wikipedia. --Ovadyah 22:57, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Sorry. I was too late to help save it. --Loremaster 02:17, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Newcomer's unusual proposal

Hello Loremaster, I am rather overwhelmed by the sheer volume of this site, which I have visited many times but I have never fully delved into. Anyway... I am quite a fan of the Priory of Sion mystery and related topics. I would like to simply propose a thought to you personally and to anyone else who is interested in this topic. By no means do I claim to be an authority on this matter nor do I claim to know everything (although I like to think I do).

I think Mr. Paul Smith's behavior reveals something about him. I think he knows more than he's letting.

This is just a thought, mind you, but I think that Smith is trying to stop the Priory of Sion article because there is truth he does not want to be exposed. Perhaps he is a member of the very Order he claims is "rubbish?"

Again, this is just a thought. I remember hearing Mr. Baigent comment on Paul Smith, saying some of the same things. In many ways, parts of Smith's website actually lead credence to the "myth" he is oddly passionate about debunking.

Like I said, I'm kind of new at this, so I'm not sure I can make my way back to this page; if you don't mind, e-mail me at jedipharaoh@aol.com. Thanks a lot! Matrixfusion 02:47, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Hello Matrixfusion. Although anything possible, I tend to avoid indulging in conspiracy theories without credible evidence to support them. So until shown the contrary, I think Paul Smith is nothing more than an overzealous fringe researcher. Loremaster 16:17, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
That shows how much "Loremaster" knows - who hasn't got the intellectual integrity to disclose his real identity. Read the latest French books that destroy and annihilate the Priory of Sion since the publication of The Da Vinci Code: Go to France and call THOSE authors "overzealous fringe researchers" --- a very good and perfect description of the authors of "The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail", may I add. Paul Smith
Hello Paul. The reason I don't disclose my identity is not due to any lack of intellectual integrity on my part. It simply to avoid being harassed or worse being defamed by people like you. That being said, I apologize. You are not an "overzealous fringe researcher". A very good and perfect description of you would be "overzealous debunker". By the way, you should consider creating a Wikipedia user account like the rest of us and follow guidelines since it would definitely add to your intellectual integrity. Loremaster 16:22, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
In my readings, which I'm sure Mr. Smith will criticize for my lack of expertise on this subject, I have encountered no real evidence that the authors of "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" had any intent of trying to concoct any theory, at least not Baigent or Leigh. I am extremely skeptical of Lincoln's role, and I must admit it is bolstered by Smith's evidence, but for the other two, their motives appear purely scholarly. And still, Mr. Smith's comments strike me as extremely odd. Why are you so angry, Mr. Smith? What exactly is your personal stake in this? Why have you insisted on bypassing any rules or regulations set forth by Wikipedia and instead following a rather bizarre path of deletion and denial? If there is a point you are trying to emphasize, Mr. Smith, I think there are other avenues for approaching the subject.
While I personally disagree that the Priory of Sion is an out-and-out hoax, due to some of my own research into the motives of certain key players (but that's not really important right now), I respect that my idea is not the majority and I understand Loremaster's and Wikipedia's stance on calling it largely a hoax in their article, and I respect that decision. I choose to discuss on this page my ideas, however right or wrong they may be. I do not delete whole pages and deface websites, like Mr. Smith.
It is very unfortunate that you continue this course of action, Mr. Smith. I would really enjoy hearing your point of view about the subject in a scholarly manner; however, that is obviously not possible. matrixfusion 20:37, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia Gullibility

An article: "Wikipedia, the Priory of Sion and Loremaster" is in preparation and will appear on priory-of-sion.com shortly.

There never was any "Order of Sion" created by Godfrey de Bouillon during the Crusades, the order he actually founded was really entitled the Abbey de Notre Dame de Mont Sion - and Plantard himself described it as such - I can easily produce the articles by him to prove it. Furthermore, I have noticed that the ramblings of Steven Mizrach have been produced as "evidence" that Godfrey de Bouillon founded an "Order of Sion" - perhaps Mizrach can produce his evidence for this. Mizrach is an American Jew who denies the anti-semitism of Pierre Plantard and believes in things like flying saucers and the Sirius "mystery"; he was also addicted to believing in the "authenticity" of Philippe de Cherisey's non-existent "parchments" that were specially created for Gerard de Sede's 1967 book - itself a re-written Plantard manuscript.

Anyway, since Loremaster and Wikipedia is another example of promoting the Plantard myths - with comments like the ones from Matrixfusion above - it is important for an article entitled "Wikipedia, the Priory of Sion and Loremaster" to be included on the priory-of-sion.com website. Now in preparation.

The idea that I am somewhat "overzealous" in my debunking and that there is a "possibility that the Priory of Sion existed" and that Baigent and Leigh "are scholars" id quite funny, especially in the light of the French attitude towards this subject matter - regarded as Paranoia in France - and the recent publications of books that have totallly annihilated the integrity of Plantard and his activities for the first time since the mid-1980s because of the publication of Dan Brown's novel.

Paul Smith 08.09.2005Previous misattributed posting is from Wfgh447 (talk · contribs)

  1. *sigh*
  2. I've removed the misinformation about Godfrey de Bouillon from the Priory of Sion article.
  3. Steven Mizrach's essay was only used to prove that an Order of Sion or, rather, an Abbey of Sion existed not that it was founded by de Bouillon.
  4. Please read the updated Order of Sion article.
  5. I personally don't think of Baigent, Leigh or Lincoln as scholars.
  6. I (and presumably NO ONE in the Wikipedia community) cares what Paul Smith says or does on his website about me or us.
  7. The fact that everyone in France thinks Pierre Plantard and the Priory of Sion are a joke doesn't change the fact that Paul Smith is not only an overzealous debunker but the most annoying person I have dealt with online in years. He actually makes me miss my "debates" with bible-thumping fundamentalists on Christian forums.
  8. Since I am fortunate enough to have a life, I will no longer be contributing or watching the Priory of Sion and the Holy Blood, Holy Grail articles so Paul Smith can do whatever he pleases with them.
  9. The end.

Loremaster 15:37, 8 September 2005 (UTC)


In relation to point 4 above - I have read the updated article on the "Order of Sion" and it patently could not have had any "connection" with the Knights Templars if it had been created by Godfrey de Bouillon - Godfrey de Bouillon died before the Templars were formed (please check this out if you do not believe me). It really would help if you consulted the Priory Documents before writing an article about this subject matter.
In relation to point 7 above - it is evident that Loremaster has not seen any of the French books nor is he acquainted with the history of the subject matter in France.
If I am an "overzealous" debunker then what does that make recent authors Jean-Jacques Bedu and Marie-France Etchegoin. Books from the mid-1980s have contributed substantial debunkings by also presenting the relevant authors' ongoing documentation as well as material relating to Plantard himself (and Chaumeil) - and this material only escalates the level of criticism of Plantard in their relevant books - but don't hold your breath to see these books translated by catchpenny English-Language publishers.
And you won't see these titles listed in the Bibliographies to "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail" and "The Messianic Legacy".
wfgh447
  1. Godfrey de Bouillon is not mentioned in the Order of Sion article so I don't understand why you keep beating this dead horse.
  2. You seem to not realize that I am not the only person who contributed to the Order of Sion article. That being said, I've removed the misinformation regarding the Knight Templars from the article.
  3. When I call you overzealous, I am not referring to the fact that you are extremely thorough or that you are vehemnetly anti-Priory of Sion. I am referring to the fact that you are too emotionally invested in debunking the Priory of Sion hoax which leads you to act like a McCarthyite witch-hunter with no sense of decency in the way you have interact with people in the Wikipedia community.
Loremaster 22:41, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Something's fishy

Loremaster,

I am sad to see your decision to abandon the Holy Blood Holy Grail/Priory of Sion articles, although I do understand your decision. I thought you were doing an excellent job dealing with Paul Smith. Thank you so much for all your hard work!

And now, to him...

I am in shock as to what is transpiring here. Nowhere else on Wikipedia is such a shameful event happening. Mr. Paul Smith, or wfgh447, or whatever you call yourself, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself. How dare you attack someone who has spent so much time on something they are clearly not being paid for! While I might disagree with Loremaster on his opinions, not only do I respect them but I appreciate them. This exchange of ideas is extremely postive and healthy, and is a great step towards discovering the truth about this matter, if we ever do find it.

You call yourself a professional researcher, yet you stoop to levels I only thought reachable by 5-year-olds. I might not be a scholar, or a teacher, or the manager of my own webpage, but at least I respect the opinions of others. At least I don't go around destroying websites because I don't like what someone is saying.

Let us assume for the moment that the Priory of Sion does not exist. I'm not saying it does, I'm not saying it doesn't. Why, Mr. Smith, are you hell-bent on this? Why have you made an esoteric mystery about a castle and a cross into your personal jihad? So what if the Priory of Sion doesn't exist? Why are you so angry, so adamant that a site that AGREES with you is to be destroyed? WIKIPEDIA IS AGREEING WITH YOU!!! I cannot fathom why you choose to attack innocent people like Loremaster, who has put up with you for over a year!

And maybe I'm crazy, I might be wrong... but I still have a strange feeling that there is more to it than this. Like I said, I might be wrong, but I think there's something Mr. Smith isn't telling us. In my opinion, there are two possibilities. 1. Mr. Paul Smith is a crazy man who believes in attacking people who have shown perhaps too much respect for him (no offense, Loremaster). 2. There is something far deeper going on. Mr. Paul Smith has a stake in this that he can't jeopardize. He can't show his true motives, his true agenda, because that would mean endangering his plans.

There is something very, very wrong here. To whomever reads this, whether it be Loremaster, Mr. Smith, or any other Wikipedia surfer, take note. There is something going on here. Something that runs deeper than an Internet article. matrixfusion 128.61.41.39 22:01, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments, Matrixfusion.
Loremaster 00:40, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
I realized after reading this that I sounded a bit overzealous myself, and I apologize if you got that sense from it. I am just outraged at Mr. Smith's comments and I hope that we can work this mess out as best as possible and figure out what's really going on. matrixfusion 199.77.208.161 03:11, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
Don't worry about it, MF. You're a good man (or woman?). I've made a few last edits to the Priory of Sion article today before leaving it completely. Loremaster 15:30, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
Cool. By the way, I'm a dude named Andrew, in case you were wondering. I hope that however the mystery of the Priory of Sion turns out, that we can find the answer through research and discussion, not derision and hate. matrixfusion 199.77.208.161 03:59, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

The Priory of Sion article

I know you swore off the subject, Loremaster, but I sure would like to talk with you about the Priory of Sion affair, just for fun, maybe share ideas. Let me know if you're interested. you can contact me at gth653x@mail.gatech.edu. Thanks! matrixfusion 128.61.41.39 10:40, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I am bit too busy to start yet another correspondence with a fellow Wikipedian but you will be happy to know that I edit the Priory of Sion and Knights Templar articles from time to time. --Loremaster 01:24, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

It could be simple. Paul Smith is dedicated to the demise of the idea that that the Jesus and Mary Bloodline could be a credible and forgotten piece of our history. The only organised body of opinion on the planet that values this goal above any other is the established Roman Church because the hypothesis gnaws at their very foundations. Usually, to discover the reasons for vehemence and anger, we look to the thwarting of someone's deeply held beliefs. In the case of Mr Smith, I think the absence of any declared motives of religious zeal dictates we may need to look elsewhere. There IS a role for the debunker in scholarship but history is not one of the earth sciences; history is founded on the balance of probabilities and on the interpretation of alleged contemporary record. None of us were there to see whether Jesus married Mary M at Cana or not. Given what we presume we know about the Essene lifestyle and social customs, it seems highly probable that they were man and wife and we must take the balance of probabilities into account. Mr Smith may well be in the pay of the Vatican but I doubt it. His sword is too crude and its aim too far off-target to be a papal weapon. He may just be one of those very sad people who get a kick out of telling the punchline of a joke before others have had a chance to enjoy the story ..........

C

Page protection

I would like to notify you that adding {{protected}} or a related tag to an article does not actually protect the page; only administrators can do that. Instead, you can request article protection at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection, and/or report the vandalism at Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress. Thank you. Regards, Mike Rosoft 12:38, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I actually realized that fact before you wrote this comment but thank you for making it real. --Loremaster 16:05, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Templars

Heya, I'm doing some expansion to the Templars article... I'll be tweaking a lot of little sections, so I thought I'd let you know to give it a day before assuming something doesn't match? Thanks.  :) Elonka 21:47, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Understood. --Loremaster 22:03, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Techno-progressivism & Sloterdijk

I can only politely reply that if I need to "read more", than you certainly do need to read more about Peter Sloterdijk. His so-called 'usage of a fascist rhetoric to promote Plato’s vision of a government with absolute control over the population', if you knew Sloterdijk's writings & maybe read with more attention the Wikipedia article, is an allegation made by his philosophical & political opponents. I've read the text in question & others by Sloterdijk (as I'm reading right now Donna Haraway, whose writings I've wanted to read since a long time), and I assure you that he is what you define as a techno-progressivist. Maybe we should both stop thinking that only we know what is what? We both seem to know the subject, don't you think? Santa Sangre

I was aware of the fact that Peter Sloterdikj being a crypto-fascist is only an allegation. My point was simply that if it is true, this would disqualify him as a techno-progressive. That being said, although you probably known more about Sloterdikj than I do, your edits of the Techno-progressivism have shown a poor understanding of that particular subject. Futhermore, you still refuse to offer sources for your criticsms. I don't claim to know what is what but, at least, I don't try to include my personal point of view in a Wikipedia article. --Loremaster 19:00, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
OK Ok... why don't we both calm down a minute? I agree that my first edits were not very wise to say the least, this happens. Furthermore, I may not be a specialist of techno-progressivism (surely so, this expression is not very used in Europe), but that doesn't stop me or anybody else from editing in it. That's how Wikipedia works, and if edits are bad, well people who know the subject better are here to rework them --- and not erase them except if it's entirely irrelevant or historical revisionism. Now, it's always a good thing to have some outward look on articles - even though I agree that this doesn't mean making any stupid kind of edits. Well, let's just leave it there...
To speak about sgth else: I took up a lot of wikilink on techno-utopianism because too much of them make it unreadable (too much blue is no good for my eyes!===) and a lot of them are more or less irrelevant. By this I mean that general topics shouldn't be wikified (19th century or US isn't very helpful), that they should'nt be repeated unless very important (main philosophers or important concepts), and that terms that do belong to the context of the article but are very well known need not be wikified (secular, progress - you already have social progress, scientific progress & technological progress... - industrialization, left/right wing, etc.). Of course, these rules may be adapted, as should everything in life be "adapted" to particular situations; however, in this particular case, too much is too much! By the way, I do not like referring to "rules" as law, but I do make the comment passing by that all of this can be read at Wikipedia:Only make links that are relevant to the context. Maybe this will make you consider that I'm not here to destroy everything, that we all do stupid things, but that even stupid people can do, by luck or whatever, well-advised edits. Furthermore, I fully encourage you in adding again Sloterdijk in the list, as he is definitely a progressivist (to go fast, he once defined himself as "left-nietzschean" -- as so much people, will you reply... -- or, more precisely, he insisted on the necessity of having a leftist reading of Nietzsche). That's it. It's quite early in the morning here, but I didn't loose my night, since I've finished reading the Cyborg manifesto of Donna Haraway, and man it was years that i wanted to read it (it hasn't been published yet where i am...) Maybe I'll try Amazon.com for the first time... See you, to further (and better) collaborations ! Santa Sangre

User:166.66.16.116

Hey, I noticed you've had endless problems with this user. I've had a few myself, & I'm not thrilled about his comments either. I've just compiled an edit history & posted it on his page & notified various people for consideration of an indefinite ban on his IP range at least down to 166.66.16.xxx

;~D Grye 10:25, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

In-line referencing in History of the Knights Templar

Why did you change the Harvard/MLA in-line citation format to that of a number [1]? -- Avi 15:15, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Because, as far as I have seen, this is the standard used in Wikipedia. --Loremaster 15:18, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Very well, you are the main editor on the article so I will defer. However, in-line citation is much more helpful to the reader, IMO, and is more prevalent in the printed world. Personally, I believe that just because something is standard does not mean it cannot be improved upon. Regardless, excellent job on the articles; keep up the good work! -- Avi 15:24, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
For future reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Footnotes#Converting_citation_styles :) -- Avi 20:22, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. --Loremaster 21:58, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

LIS userbox?

Greetings! I was entertaining the thought of creating a userbox for librarians & information science when I came across Template:User library and information scientist, apparently created by you. For what use was the template created? Have you indeed created a userbox? Would you mind if I did so? Questions, questions, questions... :P Her Pegship 23:39, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I created it in order to have something to add to my user page but abandoned the idea in the middle of the process. You are more than welcomed to finish the job. --Loremaster 23:48, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

{{User library and information scientist}} Cheers, Her Pegship 05:55, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Knights Templar

Hiya, may I remove your "Vote" section on the Talk page, and replace it with an RfC (Request for Comment) section? Or would you like to do it? I think the discussion would benefit from bringing in other Wikipedia editors rather than the small group we have right now. Elonka 19:42, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Go ahead. --Loremaster 21:43, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Transhumanism - featured article nomination

Hi! As I read the Wikipedia:Featured article candidates page, the idea is to create a new section on that page, not to create an entirely new page that says, in this case Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Transhumanism. That was what I meant by my comment on the latter page. Make sense now? The explanation on Wikipedia:Featured article candidates seems pretty clear to me - have another look at the steps it sets out - and you can see votes taking place on articles as you scroll down.

I think it would be easy to fix this. It would just be a matter of moving the current material to the right place, but I guess I'm the wrong person to be offering advice, since I've not taken part in such a process before. You might want to check out what I'm saying with some of the "elders" here.

Sorry to bother you if I'm somehow getting this wrong.

I hope the nomination of the Transhumanism article succeeds. I see you've done a lot of good work lately with related articles. I keep coming across your editing on things like the IEET article. Metamagician3000 11:23, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Hello Metamagician, I actually did follow the steps.
Step 2: Place {{fac}} on the talk page of the nominated article.
When I did this, it created a new page, which is normal in order to discuss the nomination.
--Loremaster 23:15, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Request for edit summary

Hi. I am a bot, and I am writing to you with a request. I would like to ask you, if possible, to use edit summaries a bit more often when you contribute. The reason an edit summary is important is because it allows your fellow contributors to understand what you changed; you can think of it as the "Subject:" line in an email. For your information, your current edit summary usage is 2% for major edits and 1% for minor edits. (Based on the last 150 major and 150 minor edits in the article namespace.)

This is just a suggestion, and I hope that I did not appear impolite. You do not need to reply to this message, but if you would like to give me feedback, you can do so at the feedback page. Thank you, and happy edits, Mathbot 04:31, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Goth article

Any chance that you could have a look at the goth subculture article when you have some time? IMHO this is potentially a very good article. I've had a little bit to do with trying to raise its standard from a copyediting viewpoint. To get it to a really high standard will probably mean involving some people with better technical skills than mine (e.g. with referencing). There used to be a lot of fighting on the discussion page, so I've mostly been avoiding the article recently. But the fighting seems to have died down. Metamagician3000 08:45, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I would love to help but my knowledge of the goth subculture is extremely superficial and the time I can afford to give to Wikipedia is becoming extremely limited. --Loremaster 18:07, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Fair enough. :) Metamagician3000 23:40, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Reprogenetics

I just answered your question:

  • Were the two species of fishes unable to interbreed? The reason I ask is because I wonder whether or not the word "species" and "speciation" is being used too loosely. I may be wrong but it seems that Silver thinks that the inability to interbreed will be the clear boundary between humanity and posthumanity. --Loremaster 17:28, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Yes, they were. I just found the article - it was Nicaragua, not Mexico :)

nature article --Tillalb 21:17, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Transhumanist conspiracy?

Loremaster, you are easy to trace here at Wikipedia. I wasn't sure but you do work for World Transhumanism Association which is heavily linked to IEET (not sure what this is but will find out). This is unscrupulous.

Transhumanism is being manipulated by Loremaster, StN and Metamagician3000! STOP it!
"The US regime has been caught interfering with the major online encyclopaedia, Wikipedia. Inconvenient facts were removed altogether, and other information was added and manipulated to distort the truth. It is fortunate that this attempt to deceive the people of the world was detected, but US propaganda and deception is usually more successful." Read this about manipulating Wikipedia entries - http://capitolannex.com/2006/01/30/congressmen-caught-manipulating-their-wikipedia-entries/

--Egghead2001

For the record, I am not a member of the World Transhumanist Association (a membership organization of the transhumanist movement) or the Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies (a think tank for transhumanist and non-tranhumanist thinkers) nor do I work for either organization. However, I have developed friendships with a few people who work for both these organizations. That being said, even if I did work for them, there is nothing wrong with a transhumanist contributing to the Transhumanism article or a Green contributing to the Green movement article as long he bases his contributions on facts rather than opinions. --Loremaster 01:55, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
I would also like to add that neither StN nor Metamagician3000 are transhumanists. Although Metamagician is sympathetic towards transhumanism, StN is quite critical if not hostile. Therefore, your accusation of unscrupulous manipulation is fallacious and needlessly inflammatory. --Loremaster 02:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
I added a comment on Egghead2001's page. Metamagician3000 04:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. --Loremaster 16:43, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I would like to ask you to give your real names when editing this Article, if you have nothing to hide. For the record, you bullied my contribution without compromise and discarded the content as insignificant by your biased standards. Wikipedia states - "policy, nonetheless, is that articles must be written from a Neutral Point of View, representing all majority and significant-minority views fairly and without bias." Forgetting this, you deleted my entry based on your bias and then made personal attacks on my entry. Wikipedia states - "When discussing an issue, stay cool and don't mount personal attacks. Take the other person's perspective into account and try to reach a compromise. Assume that the other person is acting in good faith unless you have clear evidence to the contrary." The inflammation is on your part since I came here in good faith and you blocked me. I have the right to edit these pages just as you do, although I did not delete your entries and then make personal attacks on people. If you want this Article to be a fine piece of writing then represent "all majority and significant-minority views" fairly. (Wikipedia) Christopher Sherman

Christopher,

  1. Correct me if I am wrong but Wikipedia does not have a policy that requires people to use their real name.
  2. There is no way for us to know that Christopher Sherman is your real name!
  3. Although I chose the user name Loremaster simply because I thought it sounded perfect for a contributor to what can be considered an online collection of "lore", I didn't do it to hide my real identity. However, after an ugly experience with another user who threatened to slander other Wikipedia users on his website simply because we (and Wikipedia moderators) disapproved of his vandalism of a particular article, I've decided to remain anonymous to protect my privacy and reputation from lone nuts.
  4. For the record, we never attacked you personally. However, all your contributions to Wikipedia are open to criticism. Don't confuse yourself with the content of your contribution.
  5. Metamagician said it best on the User talk:Egghead2001 page: The objectivity of my edits speaks for itself. I am simply insisting that all claims for and against transhumanism, or otherwise, be accurate, properly attributed, and well-referenced. I want the article to be the best possible resource for anyone (e.g. university students) who is interested in the subject. I am currently focused on cooperating with StN (whose views are very different from mine), Loremaster (who perhaps has broadly similar sympathies, but doesn't always agree with me), and anyone else who wants to contribute, in an effort to make the article comprehensive, rigorous and stable enough for Featured Article status. That's as far as it goes. The record shows that StN, Loremaster and I have all had a lot of disagreements among ourselves. We've been handling them in an amicable and mature way, I think, but we are far from being a gang of conspirators.
  6. Metamagician has also explained to you that: I have nothing against Natasha Vita-More, but I do think we have to be very careful how we use the claims of any particular thinker. We should be citing them where necessary to support claims that are necessary for the article. Nothing more (as it were), nothing less. I think that we give her adequate recognition for her historical role in the transhumanist movement. If there is more that should be said about her - e.g. if she has put cogent arguments defending transhumanism in her writings - we should say so in concise summary form, with appropriate sources to reference what she has said. But putting in a lump of her "musings", or whatever, without integration into the article is just not good wikipedia writing. The idea here is to write the best possible neutral, well-referenced article about transhumanism, not to push the ideas of any particular thinker.

--Loremaster 21:32, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry

Sorry, I reverted one of your changes to a talk page because I thought you were blanking it. It appears you are making archives, so I reverted myself.--Kungfu Adam (talk) 22:08, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Understood. --Loremaster 12:30, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

missing text

No problem. Tony 16:05, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


Just to make sure...

Have my reverts on HBHG been 'correct'? I want to assume as much good faith as possible, but the other party (or parties) don't seem to be willing to discuss their changes. I'm at a little bit of a loss as to what to do if this continues, and just want to make sure I'm not just being biased. Cheers, KalevTait 16:37, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Re:Transhumanism and fair use of images

Copyright paranoia gets to us all, in the end. I think simply explaining on every image page why fair use applies to the image should be enough - but I am not an expert here.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 17:44, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Priory of Sion

I've several times placed this link on the Priory article: Declaration by the Current Grand Master of the Priory of Sion (satire) It has several times been removed. I don't think satirical responses are out of the range of linkworthy items to a "secret society" that is itself a hoax (now a literary hoax) or ludibrium. Gustave Traupmann 14:40, May 19, 2006 (UTC )

License tagging for Image:Aldous Huxley.jpg

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License tagging for Image:Nick Bostrom.jpg

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Image:Primo Posthuman.jpg

Can you give some justification for this image being licensed as norightsreserved? Or it should be fair use? --Hetar 00:49, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, I changed Image:Nick Bostrom.jpg to fairusein, please provide a fair use rationale as soon as possible. Thanks. --Hetar 01:01, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Holy Blood, Holy Grail

I wanted to give you a heads-up that an anonymous user has made a number of extremely POV, pretty inflammatory edits to this article. I'm sure you would've seen it anyway but I thought leaving a message here would bring it to your attention. My first reaction is to just revert all of them but I thought, since you're the one who's done most of the work on the article, you'd want to be the one to fix it up. Just letting you know - you've done a great job with keeping this article as unbiased as possible for such a controversial subject. -RaCha'ar 04:24, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

As a side note, I went and left a comment on the user's talk page encouraging them to try their edits with a less POV tone. Maybe they'll actually listen. -RaCha'ar 04:41, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Re:About See also

Not that I can actually find now (I'd expect it to be at WP:GTL or WP:WIAFA), but I saw this argument at various FAC/PRs and adopted it, as it sounds quite sound. Perhaps you should raise the issue at Wikipedia talk:What is a featured article? or some related FA page and ask if there is such a policy? If not, I think it should be added.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:58, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Vote requested for Exocortex AfD

The Exocortex article is being considered for deletion. You may wish to share your thoughts on the matter. (Any reply posted here will not be reviewed by me.) --Amit 02:42, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bill Joy.jpg

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An idea to consider

Hi. I thought you might like to give some input on this idea of mine. Cheers. -- Nikodemos 23:42, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Pictures and Licensing

Hello Stifle,

  • Nick Bostrom has given us permission to use Image:Nick-Bostrom.png and Image:Nick Bostrom.jpg in both the Nick Bostrom and Transhumanism articles.
  • Natasha Vita-More has given us persmission to use Image:Natasha Vita-More.jpg in both the Natasha-Vita More and Transhumanism articles.
  • Max More has given us persmission to use Image:Max More.jpg in both the Max More and Transhumanism articles.
  • I'm unsure as what would be the appropriate license for Image:Aldous Huxley.jpg, an old picture of the late Aldous Huxley, famous author of Brave New World, which was found in MSN Encarta.

--Loremaster 19:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, just having permission to use an image on Wikipedia is not sufficient for using it. The image needs to either be usable under a free license or meet our fair use policy, which is stricter than the law.
You need to contact the copyright holders of the images (and note that this is generally the person who took the photographs, not the people depicted) and request that the images be released under an appropriate free license or into the public domain.
For the old image, was it first published in the US before 1923? If so, it is in the public domain, tag it as {{PD-US}}. Otherwise, again we would need it to be released under a free license. Fair use is highly unlikely to apply here as the material is taken from another encyclopedia.
Wikipedia's goal is to become a free encyclopedia, where free is taken in the sense of "free speech" as opposed to "free of charge". Using images that other people cannot use runs counter to that, which is why it is restricted. I hope you understand. Stifle (talk) 21:50, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Just as an update, Image:Nick Bostrom.jpg is a valid fair use image, as are Image:Natasha Vita-More.jpg and Image:Max More.jpg. Using Image:Nick-Bostrom.png in Transhumanism is not describing the "person in question", so fails fair use. Image:Aldous Huxley.jpg needs a fair use rationale, i.e. a justification of invoking fair use for that image. Stifle (talk) 21:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Bill_Joy.jpg

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Cyberprep

An article that you created, Cyberprep, was proposed for deletion, probably yesterday. Please review the policy on proposed deletion and feel free to comment on the article's talk page. If no contest is made, the article will be deleted in four days from today.--Kungfu Adam (talk) 22:58, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Preview button.

I would like to thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. However, it is recommended that you use the preview button before you save; this helps you find any errors you have made, and prevents clogging up recent changes and the page history. Thanks again. -- Jeandré, 2006-08-07t19:39z

Warnings.

Re: your last 5 edits [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]; please stop removing warnings. Archiving old ones are fine tho. -- Jeandré, 2006-08-08t19:45z

Since I am obviously aware of these warnings, I don't see why I don't have a right to archive them. --Loremaster 22:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:The Young Family.jpg

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Image copyright problem with Image:We Can Rebuild Him.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:We Can Rebuild Him.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

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Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me, or ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Goldom ‽‽‽ ⁂ 11:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Keep an eye out

Could you keep an eye on the Ebionites page? We have some newbies causing quite a ruckus. I just went thru an RFC there and things are getting a bit out of hand. Ovadyah 00:16, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Shalom Loremaster, Did they realy need an external link? what would Happen to any edits to the section that added Jewish mystism? not to mention Ebionite.com?NazireneMystic 03:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I moved the original Modern Ebionites section to the Archive 1 talk page to keep things consistent. How can I recover previous versions of this talk page? There are some nuggets I want to recover later. Ovadyah 23:33, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Good Faith

Shalom Loremaster,

This is a big thing to ask that I assume good faith regarding OvadYah. This editor has been quite deceptive during this enite debate. First he was attempting to pass as a NPOV a few archinved pages ago but I do not believe this can any longer be hid. Look at the exchange that took place right before you asked me to assume "good faith" were he states:

"I have never heard of Shemayah Phillips claiming for himself more than the title of Paqid, which is basically a secretary or clerk. By contrast, the claims of your leader are exceedingly pretentious, and he was also excommunicated -- from the Ebionite Jewish Community. I guess that's why you folks loathe Shemayah so much huh?

Given this statment what would you understand it to mean? I went to his site and searched for the term "Paqid" it says the term is irrelevent and it realy means "President" not only that but this office of President can be handed down to sucsessors like a Monarchy. This offices makes him the desider of all things Ebionite[in his little world]. This sounds like a type of "Priory of Sion" situation given Yeshua said to not even call another man teacher but all should be taught by the christ I.E. "Anointing",which by the way has nothing to do with oil being poured on your head.

In the above statment he tries to minumize this and then call Allan my "leader". All I can say is ive been in Allans fourms for over 3 years and hes never ordered anyone to do anything.

Then he says Allan was Excommunicated or some nonsence like that. Wouldnt you have to be converted before your excommunicated? If the EC will tell you of "Ebionites proper" if asked regarding someones standing as thier President says at his site then they must have records of the rituals practised at converson like circumsision. I would LOVE to see reconds of that converson. This editor is relating the joining of a online fourm to being converted to thier religion.If you are kicked off the fourm your"Excommunicated". In that sence one of the wikipedia Editors is now a member in autoplasty from our group because one joined and then left. read my talk page and see the person that asked to join, he joinded shortly afterward he asked me to accept him to the fourm and then he left in a few days. If you message him and ask I dought he thinks he ever converted and accepted Allan as a "Leader" I dought he would think he did.LOL However this is the type foolishness directed as us im to take with good faith.

I did assume good faith when I called him ignorant because if these things were knowingly done it would be diobolical.NazireneMystic 22:12, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Loremaster, I have tried my best to be NPOV always, and I have no need to be deceptive. If I sound like I am becoming more partisan, it's only because of my growing irritation over the relentess personal attacks directed against me by this new user and her cohorts. I'm tired of these rambling rants. Ovadyah 02:54, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Pablo Stafforini

A tag has been placed on Pablo Stafforini, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article seems to be a biographical account about a person, group of people, or band, but it does not indicate how or why he/she/they is/are notable. If you can indicate why Pablo Stafforini is really notable, I advise you to edit the article promptly, and also put a note on Talk:Pablo Stafforini. Any admin should check for such edits before deleting the article. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Please read our criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 7 under Articles. You might also want to read our general biography criteria. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. To contest the tagging and request that admins should wait a while for you to assert his/her/their notability, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and then immediately add such an assertion. It is also a very good idea to add citations from reliable sources to ensure that your article will be verifiable.  (aeropagitica)   (talk)  14:38, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Christian Transhumanism

I found that a little odd that an article about Christian Transhumanism was deleted. Particulaly, as Teilhard was a catholic priest and a forerunner for Christian Transhumanism.

The problem was that the subject was not notable enough to merit an article in an encyclopedia. --Loremaster 15:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

progressivism

hi, I've noticed from the talk page that you've spent some time working with this article - probably more than I have - and was wondering what your thoughts on the semi-recent changes are? I'd like to get some critical feedback and any potential methods for improvement that you may be interested in providing, and hopefully we can ramp the whole thing up, maybe even to a level fitting of an encyclopedia. Also, I was considering adding the current contents of the talk page to the first archive, as I'm sick of seeing this, but don't think the page is long enough to create a whole new 2nd archive. Sound ok to you?--Jackbirdsong 02:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Regarding NazireneMystic

I have filed a formal complaint against NazireneMystic on the Personal Attack noticeboard if you want to add any comments [7]. Ovadyah 04:13, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Good. I will add my comments as soon I find the time. --Loremaster 16:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
The results of my complaint were a warning and a 24-hour block. I will leave it to your discretion to have NM banned from Wikipedia. Ovadyah 01:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
When does it start? --NazireneMystic 02:49, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't know and I don't care. Please stop writing on my talk page. --Loremaster 14:33, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
This would be a good time to make progress on the Ebionites article if time permits. NM received a 48-hour block today from the PA Noticeboard for continued personal attacks, this time against Shemayah Phillips. Hope all is well. Ovadyah 01:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I won't have time to contribute until December so you should start working on the article alone. I'll improve on it when I get back. --Loremaster 12:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

FYI. I have once again filed a report on NM on the PA noticeboard with diffs if you care to comment. I'm not sure what this will accomplish except to delay the inevitable, since NM has stated that he considers it his religious duty to continue these attacks until he is banned from Wikipedia. Ovadyah 00:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

NM received a 48-hour block from the PA noticeboard for continued personal attacks. Ovadyah 04:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Loremaster, You complain about me asking a question on your talk page and then go and Blank out my entire page? Ihope bringing your vandalism up is not taken as a personal attack.

Ovadyah,I see you are spreading falsehoods again. I haver mentioned anything about a religous duty. Your just upset becauseI looked at at another piece of susposed evidence and scholarly resources supporting your POV I find them a falsehood and many times almost totaly reverse of that the Scholar states.NazireneMystic 23:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

NazireneMystic, please read your own discussion page to find an explantion for my friendly actions. --Loremaster 17:21, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
I have hauled NazireneMystic to the PA Noticeboard again. You may want to comment this time, as there are allegations of fraud involved. Ovadyah 01:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Opus Dei RFC

LM-- First off-- the Ebionites article is looking really great! Good job. I keep meaning to learn enough about Ebionites to be able to help out over there, but other wikipedia things keep grabbing my attention. I better hurry though, because if ya'll keep editing, I'm sure you guys will be up to FAC in no time.

Anyway-- I have recently done a major rewrite on the Opus Dei article and am requesting comments on its talk page. In doing so, I've upset some people not unlike NazireneMystic-- single-purpose accounts with strong religious views about the subject of the article. Some want the whole thing reverted outright, some think it violates NPOV. If you have a second, could you look it over and comment on whether the rewrite is an improvment, if it's NPOV, and maybe help out in the ensuing discussion? --Alecmconroy 14:23, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't know enough about Opus Dei to be of much help. Sorry. --Loremaster 18:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Someone with as many edits as you have should enable email.---Alecmconroy 18:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Why? --Loremaster 18:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Just because once you're a regular contributor, sometimes it's helpful to be able to contact people-- i.e. if they haven't been on-wiki lately, or if you want to ask a private opinion, etc. --Alecmconroy 20:14, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I've had problems with email harrassment in the past so I tend to avoid enabling it. --Loremaster 20:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Good Article

The response from the editors Slrubenstein suggested has so far been underwhelming. Do you want to proceed to nominate the Ebionites article as a Good Article or wait a while longer? Ovadyah 04:52, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Let's proceed with the Good Article nomination. --Loremaster 09:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I have nominated the Ebionites article for Good Article status [8]. Ovadyah 16:03, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Biohacker

Another editor has added the "{{prod}}" template to the article Biohacker, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the editor doesn't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and has explained why in the article (see also Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Notability). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia or discuss the relevant issues at Talk:Biohacker. If you remove the {{prod}} template, the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. --WikiSlasher 02:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I've merged the article into Biopunk. --Loremaster 16:18, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Human-racism?

May I inquire as to why "human-racism" is a better term than "speciesism" in the instance in which it is used in the Frankenstein Argument (dehumanization) segment of the Criticisms section of the context article? It seems to me that since we are in fact a species and not a race of some larger species, that the term "human-racism" then merely serves the purpose of biasing the reader, if only in some small way. It is perfectly fine if the article Human exceptionalism is more appropriate, or indeed even if it is simply written better, however why not use the term "human exceptionalism", rather than "human-racism" or even "speciesism"? And if even to not use "human exceptionalism", why not use instead "speciesism" in that instance, while perhaps still linking to Human exceptionalism? Is it not preferable to be technically correct in a small way, than to bias, whether deliberately or through convenience? 216.129.211.105 03:45, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

The answer is quite simple. In the same way the term "yuck factor" is the term used by transhumanists as a colloquial alternative for the "wisdom of repugnance"; "human-racism" is the term used by transhumanists as a colloquial alternative to "human exceptionalism" or "speciecism". For an example, read Saving Human Rights from the Human-racists. --Loremaster 14:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Loremaster: "Habermas" (sp.)-StN 03:09, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

??????

Please dont remove these unreadable symbols from the Haile Selassie article as it is considered vandalism. If you want to change policy on unreadable scripts do so in the appropriate page but dont pick on this one article. If you want to read the script there is a link on the talk page, SqueakBox 18:26, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Your edits to Ebionites

With all due respect to your tireless contributions, I must point out that your manner of editing is costing wikipedia a fortune and stretches out the history thread of articles unnecessarily. Most of your edits are in a few seconds or minutes of each other. It explains this issue in the welcome page and I made this mistake too until someone explained it to me. I think you should use the show preview button more often instead of continuous edits. In this way we can see how the article evolves and expands etc clearly. Cheers! frummer 07:37, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

The Fountain argument

I've reverted a "See also" section in the same grounds as Piotrus. I'm curious as to whether there is any actual citation of The Fountain in connection with transhumanism, as the "Fountain argument" at the transhumanism article seems to be originally titled. If there is available information, this should be integrated into the Interpretations section of The Fountain. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 05:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Ebionite 3RR warning

Warning

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. Loremaster, you have repeatedly reverted sourced inserts, and inserted your own original research by making arguments from primary sources that are not supported by the secondary sources. Please stop. You have already made reverts: [9] [10] [11]

Instead of imposing your own POV into the article, discuss it and reach a consensus on the talk page first. --Michael C. Price talk 01:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Michael, I've repeatedly provided explanations for my revert edits in light of your acts of vandalism. I have already explained to why the Lead does not need to mention your inserts which are already mentioned elsewhere in the article. It is ridiculous of you to describe the deletion of these inserts as inserting original research. I've discussed all these issues on the Talk:Ebionites page and my views and actions are supported by User:Ovadyah position which is identical to my own. There is no consensus possible since you are using wikilawyering to impose your own POV into the article which I am trying to remove to preserve a neutral point of view. Period. --Loremaster 01:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I see you ignored my warning and went right ahead and reverted the article. Whatever your views 3RR is a vioaltion of policy (read previous warning carefully!). I have reported this here. --Michael C. Price talk 02:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Noted. --Loremaster 03:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Edit summary comments

...are a good thing. Use them for fun and profit. KarlBunker 04:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Regarding reversions[12] made on January 14, 2007 to Ebionites

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.

The duration of the block is 24 hours. William M. Connolley 11:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I find it unjustified that I have been blocked from editing Wikipedia for 24 hours for violation of the three-revert rule when I only reverted the Ebionites article twice. My following edit was a revert but also a restoration of a sentence written by the other user, involved in this so-called edit war, as a gesture of good faith. Can someone please cancel this block? That being said, I do need to go the bed. ;)--Loremaster 12:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
If you only reverted it twice, why did you mark at least 4 edits as rv? William M. Connolley 16:05, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I thought the rule was against 3 consecutive reverts in a row. My mistake. --Loremaster 16:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Your edits to Designer baby

Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia, Loremaster! However, your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove spam from Wikipedia. If you were trying to insert a good link, please accept my creator's apologies, but please note that the link you added in is on my spam blacklist and should not be included in Wikipedia. Please read Wikipedia's external links policy for more information. If the link was to an Imageshack or Photobucket image, please read Wikipedia's image tutorial on how to use a more appropriate method to insert the image into an article. If your link was genuine spam, please note that inserting spam into Wikipedia is against policy. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! Shadowbot 19:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Edit summary comments again

I don't understand your resistance to using edit summaries. It's an easy and important courtesy to other editors. If you have some rational for not making them, I'd be most interested to hear it. Thanks. KarlBunker 18:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I have no rationale. I just tend to be uncourteous sometimes. My apologies. ;) --Loremaster 18:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Apology accepted. I've been known to be uncourteous on occasion myself (hard to believe, but true!).  :-) KarlBunker 18:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Ebionites

Please see my response to your suggestion on my talk page. We might need to find a way to communicate off-wiki. Ovadyah 18:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Let me know when you have had enough of this nonsense and are ready to take Michael to RFC. Ovadyah 07:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think this will be necessary. Let's just wait till Micheal makes his final contributions to the Ebionites/wip page and proceed from there. --Loremaster 17:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok. No problem. Until then, I will be on the sidelines. Ovadyah 19:52, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Your comments on my talk page

See my responses there. Metamagician3000 10:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Ebionite Jewish Community

Running into it on random pages, I just want to let you know that Ebionite Jewish Community, which you created, is currently a prime candidate for a WP:CSD#A7 speedy deletion, and would also qualify for regular deletion per WP:WEB due to lack of third party coverage. Sandstein 11:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Technogaianism

Hello,

Thank you for your work. Could you also add an explanation of the differences with Bright green environmentalism?

Have a nice day.
David Latapie (✒ | @) 03:06, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Transhumanism

You have recently reverted two minor alterations I have made in this article, regarding the colloquial terms for two of the arguments. These were the alteration of two of the colloquial names expressed within the article from “Fountain” and “Terminator,” to “The Fountain” and “The Terminator.” May I inquire as to why we should not, in this instance, use the proper name from which these arguments receive their informal identities? Both films in question do in fact contain the definite article “The,” capitalised, in their titles – all other relevant titles are included properly and completely, subtracting subtitles. 216.129.211.105 04:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The reason is simple. In popular usage, these colloquial terms do not include the definite articles that the films in question have in their titles. --Loremaster 07:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Ebionites

Please refrain from editting until March, as agreed. --Michael C. Price talk 17:11, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Betterhumans

I have added a "{{prod}}" template to the article Betterhumans, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. RJASE1 Talk 01:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Betterhumans

I've nominated Betterhumans, an article you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but in this particular case I do not feel that Betterhumans satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion; I have explained why in the nomination space (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and the Wikipedia deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Betterhumans and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Betterhumans during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. RJASE1 Talk 02:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Notability of Toronto Transhumanist Association

A tag has been placed on Toronto Transhumanist Association, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article seems to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable, that is, why an article about that subject should be included in Wikipedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert notability may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is notable, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page (below the existing db tag) and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. RJASE1 Talk 02:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Dale Carrico

I have added a "{{prod}}" template to the article Dale Carrico, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. RJASE1 Talk 03:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Andy Miah

I have added a "{{prod}}" template to the article Andy Miah, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. RJASE1 Talk 03:34, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Ramez Naam

I have added a "{{prod}}" template to the article Ramez Naam, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. RJASE1 Talk 03:37, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

WTA, IEET and related articles

I just wanted to let you know that I hope not to get involved in debates about the proposed deletion of articles related to the WTA, IEET and similar organisations, and articles on most of the Fellows, office holders, etc., of those organisations. I think that my connections make me a good person to do work on those articles, but not a good person to be making objective judgments about their notability, etc., although it's obvious to me that some of the relevant subjects are notable - whereas some others may be more borderline when one steps back from them. So, that's my explanation as to why I probably won't be participating at AfD's etc., even though I created some of the articles involved and have worked on others. Metamagician3000 03:48, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Andy Miah

I've nominated Andy Miah, an article you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but in this particular case I do not feel that Andy Miah satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion; I have explained why in the nomination space (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and the Wikipedia deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andy Miah and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Andy Miah during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. RJASE1 Talk 18:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Citing Articles

Those articles aren't up for deletion, and I don't really have time right now. I doubt there will be many good sources for the Institute, and I don't know much about Dvorsky, but most of the sources I cited on the WTA deletion page mention James Hughes. I'd suggest doing some google searches, then just look down the list for anything that doesn't sound like a transhumanist website. Transhumanism gets a lot of press, so it shouldn't be hard. As an alternative, if you've got any transhumanist books that mention Dvorsky or the Institute, just cite them as sources. Aelffin 19:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Transhumanism

There seems to be some feeling against this group of articles. I stopped a few from imminent deletion, but they do most of them need improvement, and you seem to be the guy to do it. It would probably help to remove some of the interlocking articles on the less notable among the individual people. I'm a little reluctant to do it myself in a field where I might be viewed as a newcomer.DGG 22:22, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

James Tabor

You started a page on James Tabor a while back. Could you come over and look at the talk page and weigh in on the discussion. Thanks. Reverend Mommy 03:16, 7 March 2007 (UTC)candlemb

Talk:World Transhumanist Association

Somewhat paradoxically, Simon Young is his World Transhumanist Society are now mentioned in Wikipedia, but in a rather more problematic way than the edits that you contested. May I suggest to roll that back per WP:BLP, which according to my understanding also applies to article's talk pages.--Tikiwont 10:57, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Origen on Ebionites

Approximately when did Origen write on the Ebionites? --Loremaster 21:15, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

The Wiki article on Origen says the De Principiis was probably written between 212 and 215 ca. Ovadyah 17:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Please remember to include edit summaries, re: Jesus Seminar. I'm sure you know how useful they are, and you can't be that busy. Thanks. --Blainster 03:18, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

You need to look at the rules

1) Stop biting me. I am attempting to be bold, only to be repeatedly slapped down for it. You need to stop making wild accusations.

2)You do not own an article; therefore editors do not need to ask permission to edit. Blind reversions of any "unauthorized" changes is a violation of both the guidelines and the spirit of Wikipedia. Please follow Wikiquitte in the future and maintain civility, rudeness is never appropriate on a Talk page or elsewhere. Noclevername 20:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

This is Fair?

Threatening to summarily revert my future edits simply because you dislike one that I had previously made is neither fair nor accurate. The proper way to reply to an edit you disagree with is to discuss it on the Talk page, not to destroy it. If you act in this manner again I will call for an administrative intervention.

I do however agree that discussing changes first might reduce disagreements such as these, and will try to be more cautious in the future. This does not excuse your behavior, however. I did not vandalize nor delete any pretinent information, therefore according to the rules of Wikipedia you had no call to delete my additions. If I add something you disagree with, tell me, and we can reach a true consensus, but don't use threats. It is a poor way to behave.

PS. If you have any further comments on my edits to an article, the proper place to address them is on that article's Talk page, not my Talk page.

Noclevername 23:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

So, ultimately, please discuss changes to the article on the Talk:Transhumanism page otherwise they will be reverted.
This is a direct violation of Wikipedia policy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Noclevername (talk • contribs) 23:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC).

From my perspective, it is you who are being obtuse. I did not make the article less neutral. And if you believe that I did so, the proper way to respond is still not to arbitrarily delete what you disagree with, (or feel is "non-neutral") but to discuss the matter. I apologize as well if I phrased my additions to the article in a way that was open to misinterpretation; it may be that some of it can be reworded (NOT reverted). To simply delete another's edits because they have not been run by you first is rather rude, I hope it will not happen again. Remember, I am also one of those who has worked on that article, and my work is no more or less important than that of yourself and others. Noclevername 00:25, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I have posted a report on your inappropriate behavior on Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts. Noclevername 01:01, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Human enhancement

I have been asked to point out that your civility on Talk:Human enhancement has been slightly subpar. Edits like [13] and [14] could be more kind, and others that I will, if you ask me to, dig up, are (admittedly minor) violations of WP:NPA. Your edits to the mainspace, however, are extremely good, particularly in areas involving Human enhancement... but please, don't bite :). GofG ||| Talk 01:04, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


Desposyni revisited

I think the Desposyni article is very close to a GAC. It looks like a Peer Review was requested May 2006, but nothing is archived. Want to jump in with me and polish it up when you have the time? Ovadyah 00:36, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Start working on it and I will jump in next week. --Loremaster 00:41, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok! Ovadyah 00:43, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I started working on the article. It's not as close to GAC quality as I first thought. There is a lot of good material, but the article is written in a very POV (conservative Catholic) way. It needs major reorganization and cleanup. Hope you can find the time to jump in and help. Ovadyah 17:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

JC Template

The JC Template is getting out of hand with edit warring over the picture and content. Just thought you should know. Ovadyah 15:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

cyberpunk

Cyberpunk has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. P4k 01:11, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Typo redirect Cosmism (de Garis)

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Cosmism (de Garis), by Clicketyclack (talk · contribs), another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Cosmism (de Garis) is a redirect page resulting from an implausible typo (CSD R3).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Cosmism (de Garis), please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Please note, this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion, it did not nominate Cosmism (de Garis) itself. Feel free to leave a message on the bot operator's talk page if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot. --Android Mouse Bot 2 14:20, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Free advice

Please keep in mind when you are noodling on the Ebionites article that it makes the article appear unstable and encourages drive-by idiots to make changes too. Ovadyah 02:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I am aware of that fact. However, edits by drive-by idiots is what led me to begin noodling the article in the first place. Also, some of their edits actually pointed some flaws in the article that needed to be fixed. That being said, regardless of how stable an article becomes, it should and always will be subject to improvement. --Loremaster 19:12, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
If you mean by pointing to flaws the following comment, "However, this minority view is well outside the scholarly consensus on the Ebionites and quite unlikely", the drive-by is mistaken. The lead section may be a minority view of orthodox Christian theologians, but it is the majority view of modern scholars. Of course, I accept that an article should be and will always be subject to improvement. Ovadyah 23:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
I am confused by your statement. Are you claiming that there is a scholarly consensus supportive of the claim that not only were Ebionites a community distinct from early Christianity before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. but they were more faithful than Paul of Tarsus to the authentic teachings of the Jesus? I seriously doubt it since, for example, the fellows of the Jesus Seminar argue both Jewish Christians, Pauline Christians, and Gnostic Christians were not faithful to the authentic teachings of the historical Jesus... --Loremaster 22:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I am not claiming that there is a scholarly concensus. The question raised by the editor quoted above is whether the material in the lead is the minority view among scholars that have studied the Ebionites. I don't think it is the minority view among this group. It may be more correct to state that there is not a majority view. The statement "the fellows of the Jesus Seminar argue both Jewish Christians, Pauline Christians, and Gnostic Christians were not faithful to the authentic teachings of the historical Jesus" presupposes that the JS have accurately determined the authentic teachings by their voting methodology. However, their conclusions are at variance with major scholars in the field such as Richard Horsley, Bill Herzog, and Ed Sanders, who see Jesus as a social and/or apocalyptic prophet in the political/religious context of first-century Judaism. Ovadyah 02:41, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Oh I understand now. However, my point is that, even if he was mistaken, the editor's mistake pointed out that the material in the lead needed to be better rephrased to avoid other editors, especially Christian ideologues, from pouncing on it. As for the conclusions of the Jesus Seminar, I wasn't presupposing that they have accurately determined the authentic teachings of Jesus or that their conclusions are not at variance with major scholars in the field. I was simply using them to point out the fact that there isn't a scholarly consensus either way on whether or not Jewish Christians and/or Ebionites were more faithful to the authentic teachings of the historical Jesus. --Loremaster 20:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Ok. Ovadyah 22:23, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Good. Are you happy with the article as it currently is? --Loremaster 00:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
No. I'm going to lay out my specific concerns on the talk page. However, I accept your statement, "there isn't a scholarly consensus either way on whether or not Jewish Christians and/or Ebionites were more faithful to the authentic teachings of the historical Jesus". Ovadyah 12:57, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Historical Jesus

You recently reverted one of my changes to the article on the Ebionites, but did not offer an edit summary. I think my summary explained the reason for my edit pretty clearly, but no argument was made against it. I see that a whole slew of edits have not been summarized or defended, some quite substantial (e.g., changing "c. 23" to "in 23"). Edit summaries, I believe, would be helpful for the article's other editors. Korossyl 22:20, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

TransBeMan film

Hi Loremaster

I noticed that you had removed an addition we made to the Martine Rothblatt page concerning our independent feature film TransBeMan of which she is Exeutive Producer. It would be much appreciated if you could restore this important and verifiable information - this film is a new and ambitious undertaking by this dynamic individual.

Please see:

http://www.transbemanfilm.com

http://www.transformerfilms.tv

Thanks...


Ebionites

Thanks for your trust but I cannot do this alone. Please keep your eyes on it as well. Str1977 (smile back) 16:09, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

John the Baptist as Essene?

Ovadyah, what are your best scholarly sources for criticisms of the John-the-Bapstist-as-Essene theory? --Loremaster 12:40, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I will look into this, but it may take a few days. Ovadyah 14:48, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
It took awhile, but I found a very thorough critical analysis by Catherine Murphy, "John The Baptist - Prophet of Purity for a New Age", Liturgical Press, Collegeville, MN (2003). Murphy applies a technique called Social-Scientific Criticism to create a multivariate matrix model that compares and contrasts the Essenes with John The Baptist. Murphy concludes (Chp. 5, p.154): "The radical difference in organizational structure and in tactics to advance the ideology of the group argues against the thesis that John The Baptist was an Essene; similarities of practice and belief may be attributed to the general traditions and practices of Second Temple Judaism".
Hope this helps. Ovadyah 01:02, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Is this sufficient or do you need more? Ovadyah 22:53, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Saying goodbye to the Ebionites

Hello Ovadyah,

Since I succeeded, with your help, in getting Ebionites featured article status, I will leave it in your hands I'm tired off having to deal with Micheal's edits. It was nice working with you. This experience has deepened my knowledge of a subject that used to interest me when I was on my personal quest for the historical Jesus. :) --Loremaster 20:27, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello Loremaster, I can understand how you would be weary of dealing with such a disruptive editor. It was nice working with you too. :0) Ovadyah 21:03, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Hallo Loremaster, please have a look at my recent changes on the Ebionites. I have read the above and understand but I want to ask you whether you can at least keep half an eye on the situation. The article is not yet in the shape it should be. Str1977 (smile back) 23:50, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Hallo Loremaster, indeed it is not always fun. However, I am a bit disappointed by your retreating from the work. Also, I do not understand why you are so insistent on the wording of the picture caption. IMHO the version you restored is needlessly circumstantial. Cheers, Str1977 (smile back) 09:37, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
I left some comments on Meta's talk page if you care to add to them or correct anything I may have mistated. Ovadyah 15:01, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Since Meta indicated on his talk page that he is currently very busy off-Wiki, I left the same comments with Jayjg. Ovadyah 15:22, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I tagged the Ebionites article and notified AN/I. I will contact Mark Goodacre and see if he can find some grad students at Duke to work on "desynthesizing" the article. I am off-Wiki now for a rest. Ovadyah 13:34, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Vote on keeping or deleting Rabinowitz

Please vote on keeping or deleting the Rabinowitz references and / or the Archaeology section of the Ebionites article here. Ovadyah 01:25, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Ebionites FAR

Ebionites has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. -- Avi 18:39, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Transhumanism

Request an explanation as to the reason for reversion of minor edit of the summary in Transhumanism article. Is it not important to indicate that transhumanists propose no amelioration of elective characteristics (excepting when those elective characteristics controvert the interests of other people)? Certainly "involuntary death" is something transhumanists object to, but would not listing characteristics to be ameliorated, only to modify the last characteristic with an adjective, indicate semantically that only the last characteristic was modified by that adjective? I do not know of any mainstream transhumanists who propose to involuntarily ameliorate elective conditions in individuals (exceptions aforementioned), such as the conditions listed. Is it not in that case disingenuous to state that transhumanists do indeed wish to ameliorate all these characteristics on an involuntary basis, excepting the last characteristic listed (involuntary death)? 216.129.211.105 22:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Ebionites content and source cleanup

I left an invitation on Michael's talk page to work consensually with the other editors to clean up the problems that have been tagged for some time now. Would you be willing to help? I would like to head off having the article delisted as a Featured Article during FAR if possible. I will ask Metamagician to provide some oversight, as he did before. Ovadyah 17:38, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Would you be willing to return to the article for a few days under the auspices of formal mediation? Ovadyah 21:40, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I've moved on. Best of luck. --Loremaster 22:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
I understand. I have filed a formal request for mediation. If you change your mind, feel free to add your comments to the RfM talk page. Ovadyah 00:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Even if I did change my mind, my new schedule would prevent me from contributing to the article as much I did in the past... --Loremaster 00:36, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Understood. However, it would be a great help if you could add your perspective to the RfM. Since you are not listed as a party to the dispute, your participation can be minimal. I think the problems can be cleaned up in a few days if everyone makes a good faith effort to reach a consensus. The Mediation Committee will provide the oversight we have been lacking. Ovadyah 00:44, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

FYI. Everyone has agreed to formal mediation of the Ebionites article (4 editors), and mediation has been accepted by the Mediation Committee. Also, FAR is requesting comments. Ovadyah 21:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of David L. Pulver

An article that you have been involved in editing, David L. Pulver, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David L. Pulver. Thank you. --Gavin Collins 09:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Arbitration proceedings against Michael Price

Although you have permanantly left the Ebionites article, you could do Wikipedia a service by participating in the arbitration proceeding against Michael Price Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Ebionites. The problems we experienced will not be confined to the Ebionites article. The same behavior will proliferate to many other articles unless something is done. I hope you will at least consider leaving an initial statement. All the best. Ovadyah 23:42, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Ebionites arbitration

If the case is accepted for arbitration, I think presenting the case against in a chronological order might be best. If you would be willing to prepare a statement dealing with what you perceived as dubious behavior during the time you were actively editing the article, that would certainly be more than welcome. I and some of the others only came into the discussion late, and we have pronouncedly less first-hand knowledge and opinion regarding earlier activity. Thank you very much for your work on the article, and any further work in it you may or may not see fit to do. John Carter 16:41, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Primo_giubbotto_aerogel_L.jpg

Replaceable fair use

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Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ebionites

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ebionites. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ebionites/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ebionites/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Newyorkbrad 15:12, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking it might be best to present the information regarding Michael's at least occasionally dubious activity in chronological order, as that would be probably the way in which the arbitrators would understand it most easily. That would in effect be requesting you to present the first statement of those who question Michael's conduct. Would you be willing to do this? In any event, I believe that, at this point, the end may be finally in sight regarding this matter. John Carter 16:06, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Loremaster, if you are willing to lay out your arguments first, I will go next. We should mention all the crap that went on in January that caused Metamagician to lock the article. Hang in there. This will all be over soon, and hopefully the solution will be permanent. Ovadyah 17:54, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Loremaster, do you still intend to make the opening statement in evidence? We finally got ArbCom's attention and we are leaving things hanging a bit. Ovadyah 19:31, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, my time is too limited to participate in this action so you will have to proceed without me but feel free to report my experiences with Micheal you have witnessed. --Loremaster 12:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I have done by best to address your concerns in an opening statement on your behalf. Let me know if I mistated anything or if there is additional specific evidence you would like to see included. Ovadyah 15:30, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I hate to ask you

I hate to ask you, but could you polish up the wording on the Ebionites article? It's in good shape now except for (1a) "Well written". I am just not the wordsmith you are, and I would hate to see the article fall after all this work because of writing style. It would probably be more productive for me to pull the evidence together for arbitration. Ovadyah 03:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

If I find the time during the coming week, I'll see what I can do. --Loremaster 09:24, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. Admin Dbachmann is keeping a close eye on the page to deal with any "issues". Things have been quiet now for a few days, and we have been making rapid progress. I still intend to pursue arbitration. We know from hard experience that this is just a lull in a cycle of passive-aggressive behavior. Ovadyah 13:31, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
I may not find the time this week but possibly in the coming weeks. However, if my edits are undermined by you-know-who, I will stop immediately. --Loremaster 13:43, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I have come to the conclusion, based on recent FAR comments, that the article will fail FAR. No matter what we do to fix it, new objections will appear to replace them. Therefore, I suggest you not waste your valuable time. Ovadyah 01:30, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Enough.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Enough.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 15:22, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Ebionites arbitration workshop

I have proposed a finding of fact against Michael Price in the ArbCom workshop for violations of WP:SYN and WP:OR leading to the addition of misleading and fraudulent content to the Ebionites article. As one of the parties to the dispute, your comments on this proposal would be much appreciated. Ovadyah 20:20, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, as you know, I am not interested in getting involved in this dispute. However, feel free to speak on my behalf. --Loremaster 20:38, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
At a minimum, I just need to know if you agree or disagree with the finding of fact. If you agree, a simple "I agree" under my comment on the workshop page with your signature would suffice. I don't feel comfortable assenting for you. I have also permanently recused myself from further editing on the article, as of the day it failed FAR. However, life will be hell for the new editors, if there ever are any, if nothing is done to prevent further abuses. Ovadyah 23:02, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Done. --Loremaster 13:13, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. Ovadyah 13:42, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ebionites

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The Arbitration Committee found that MichaelCPrice (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) has engaged in sustained edit-warring and is subject to an editing restriction for one year, he is limited to one revert per page per week and must discuss any content changes on the article's talk page. Should any user subject to an editing restriction in this case violate that restriction, that user may be briefly blocked, up to a week in the event of repeated violations. After 5 blocks, the maximum block shall increase to one month. For the Arbitration Committee, Cbrown1023 talk 04:56, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Notability of Thomas Plantard

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Thomas Plantard, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Thomas Plantard seems to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Thomas Plantard, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot (talk) 21:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:Despres

User:Despres, a page you created, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Despres and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:Despres during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Master of Puppets Care to share? 07:20, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

World Transhumanist Association

With regards to the segment about the fundraising campaign, you removed that twice. The second time you didn't seem to have read the history to determine why I reinserted it - I specifically said that it seemed like a noteworthy event to insert under the heading of "'Programs and activities" and I noted that perhaps it was removed because it seemed like an advertisement - if one felt so, one should rewrite. This is the first fundraising event of this kind for this organisation - is it really not noteworthy? Perhaps it is because the campaign only runs until the end of January? -216.129.211.105 (talk) 21:31, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Agustinaldo

Why is User:Loremaster posting a user box on the page of User:Agustinaldo? Doczilla (talk) 18:38, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Why does User:Doczilla care??? --Loremaster (talk) 19:00, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Because no one should place a userbox on a userpage than the user themselves, per Wikipedia:Userboxes, it is considered uncivil. (Though in this case, it would seem more likely to be an accident of sign-in by a sock-puppeteer, but be that as it may...) I'll be removing the userbox. - jc37 21:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Exactly. Doczilla (talk) 22:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Gattaca

Hi. You reverted my recent edit, with:

14:38, 1 February 2008 Loremaster (Talk | contribs) (13,437 bytes) (Undid revision 188312784 by Jhawkinson (talk))

Why? I should not be surprised to follow a piped link and find myself on a page about Transhumanism. I was indeed so-surprised. See WP:PIPE#EGG. Please tell me why I should not revert your change. Thank you.

(All this aside, please use an edit summary when you revert someone's edits! It makes it easier for everyone!) jhawkinson (talk) 15:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Technosexual

I have nominated Technosexual, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Technosexual. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Justin(c)(u) 04:18, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Biopunk

Can I ask why you thought that my edit was worth reverting without an edit summary? The category is absolutely useless. J Milburn (talk) 23:06, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Transhumanism in fiction

Please see my comment in Talk:Transhumanism in fiction--Sparkygravity (talk) 16:50, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

This page background Rocks BTW, makes me want to steal the idea--Sparkygravity (talk) 16:52, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Biopunk and SF

I don't see any reason to change my initial opinion that "biopunk" is not yet a notable subgenre label. I don't come across it in reviews or discussions--and as a reviewer and long-time student of SF, I've seen a lot of commentary. It looks to me like the usual kind of enthusiast-generated neologism, in this case of the kind that comes from adding "punk" to almost any noun. (The same thing can be done with "porn" or "noir.") If I were king of the universe, the biopunk SF section would be expunged. Of course, I'm not, so I'll just go on record as agin it. RLetson (talk) 03:09, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Robin Green (computer scientist)

I have nominated Robin Green (computer scientist), an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robin Green (computer scientist). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. JavaTenor (talk) 04:06, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Citation of "Paul Smith" as a source w/o publication data

Please note that Wikipedia does not accept self-published sources as reliable. Wednesday Next (talk) 21:50, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Philip CoppensWfgh66 (talk) 22:00, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Edit warring

Warning

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly, as you are doing at Priory of Sion. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. Wednesday Next (talk) 22:00, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Cuckoo?

Obviously its a pov comment hidden in a refname. (Immortality Insitute = Cukoo) You can revert or change it if you like. --Lemmey (talk) 13:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Why does anyone do anything? You've fixed it. You've made Wpedia better. Just be happy with your accomplishment. --Lemmey (talk) 14:03, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Chip the glasses, crack the plates, thats what Bilbo Baggins hates. --Lemmey (talk) 14:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Your edits at Synarchism

Wikipedia:No Original Research means what it says. Please add only well-sourced material that is directly relevant to the subject of the article. --Terrawatt (talk) 14:57, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

April 2008

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 31 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for violating the three-revert rule . Please be more careful to discuss controversial changes or seek dispute resolution rather than engaging in an edit war. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below. —EncMstr 07:53, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Marie de Saint Clair

What is the point of asking me to prod an article because the person doesn't exist, and then redirecting the page to the Saint-Clair surname page (which serves to disambiguate people and things that exist with the same last name)? If she doesn't provably exist, and there's no article about her on WP (because it was deleted), there's no reason to direct the page there. It's very illogical, to say the least. I've CSDed it, and if you leave the page space alone, it will go away, which is basically what you wanted in the first place. MSJapan (talk) 18:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar

Since this converstation has nothing to do with the other one, there is no need to link the two. --Lemmey (talk) 19:12, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Stop decontextualizing Gaddafi link

"White Book (ISRATIN)" is completely and utterly indadequate as a description of the external link on the Isratine article. People need to be told where they're going and and why they might want to go there, and "White Book (ISRATIN)"[sic] serves none of those purposes. Furthermore, the link is full of historical falsehoods, and Wikipedia is not required to be neutral between the proposition that the earth is flat and the proposition that the earth is round. AnonMoos (talk) 01:47, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Synarchism

(from user talk:EncMstr#Synarchism) Loremaster, a controversial edit is one which people object to. (From Merriam-Webster: marked especially by the expression of opposing views : dispute) Whether you stand by it or not is not the issue. Yes, it can be hard to know if something is objectionable in advance, but you now have plenty of feedback—and presumably insight. You've been adequately and thoroughly warned now. You can minimize your chances of being blocked by using the talk page to persuade and/or gain consensus. —EncMstr (talk) 04:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Holy Tech.jpg

An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Holy Tech.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Lemmey (talk) 03:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC) --Lemmey (talk) 03:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:James Hughes.jpg

An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:James Hughes.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Mosmof (talk) 05:41, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

administrative duties

I happened to notice you wrote There is no unbiased justification for the removal of Berlet's book as a source for this statement. Is Wikipedia administrator going to intervene to put an end to these abuses?

Administrators don't babysit. Removal of content should be explained in cases where it is not clear. If someone removed an important aspect of an article, your options are:

  • If there was no explanation, revert the removal.
  • If there was an explanation, consider whether it seems proper. If not, ask the deleting editor whether it was a mistake.
  • If you disagree on the propriety, guess what? Discuss it and come to some agreement.
  • If that doesn't work, there is a whole hierarchy of agreement reaching mechanisms, beginning with WP:RFC. The whole sequence is detailed in WP:DISPUTE. Notice that administrators are not involved in the decision process. Only enforcing any decisions—and keeping the playing field level. —EncMstr (talk) 04:10, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Image:Holy Tech.jpg

A tag has been placed on Image:Holy Tech.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section I7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a non-free image with a clearly invalid licensing tag; or it otherwise fails some part of the non-free content criteria.

If you can find a valid tag that expresses why the image can be used under the fair use guidelines, please replace the current tag with that tag. If no such tag exists, please add the {{non-free fair use in|article name that the image is used in}} tag, along with a brief explanation of why this constitutes fair use of the image. If the image has been deleted, you can re-upload it, but please ensure you place the correct tag on it.

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AfD nomination of I-wear

I have nominated I-wear, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/I-wear. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Lemmey talk 01:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Bad fair use of Image:Holy Tech.jpg

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Image:Holy Tech.jpg, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Image:Holy Tech.jpg is an image with a clearly invalid fair use tag; or it is an image that fails some part of the non-free content criteria and the uploader has been given 48 hours' notification (for images uploaded after 2006-07-13) or seven days' notification (for images uploaded before that date). (CSD I7).

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Possibly unfree Image:Posthuman Future.jpg

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Replaceable fair use Image:Posthuman Future.jpg

Replaceable fair use

Thanks for uploading Image:Posthuman Future.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

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  2. On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

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Replaceable fair use Image:Posthuman Future.jpg

Replaceable fair use

Thanks for uploading Image:Posthuman Future.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

  1. Go to the media description page and edit it to add {{di-replaceable fair use disputed}}, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
  2. On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Lemmey talk 02:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Posthuman Future.jpg

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Posthuman

Hi Loremaster. I'm not the greatest authority on our NFCC policies, but here's my thoughts: using non-free pictures is pretty much only acceptable if you're using them to illustrate commentary on the item in question. (Ie, movie posters or book covers are only okay for an article on that book or movie). While I think it's a great picture, I can't think of a fair use rational that would let it be used in Transhumanism. It might be ok if it were in an article where you were critically discussing the original article in the Chronicle of Higher Ed, but it doesn't look like any of it's current usages meet that requirement. Sorry. Have you tried looking on commons or flickr for free media that would be somewhat close (or at least acceptable?) Best, --Bfigura (talk) 21:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Stephen Anderson (Priory of Sion)

Using Stephen Anderson as a "reliable authority" is not a good idea, or anything at all from the http://www.perillos.com/ website, which is totally unreliable. Anderson's involved with 'The Rennes Group', which mystifies anything to do with the PoS and Berenger Sauniere, and the perillos website is a vehicle for Andre Douzet, promoting his take on the "mystery", and the articles there by various people are completely unreliable as they have all been written with the agenda of hyping-up the "mystery" of "Sauniere" linking it with the village of Perillos (there is no link), and promoting Plantard as a possible credible Grand Master of French esoteric history. This latest article on Plantard, http://www.perillos.com/pos1_4.html serves as an example of the way how they embrace long discredited allegations about him. Plantard's choice of "WAY" for pseudonym during the late 1950s had nothing to do with the "World Assembly of Youth", the original 'Le Monde' articles suggest that it was linked to his contact telephone number which in those days corresponded on old-type rotary dialling-systems with letters of the alphabet. Of course, Plantard had more than three numbers and the rest of them corresponded to another word. Wfgh66 (talk) 11:32, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

The latest from perillos.com

http://www.perillos.com/rahn.html

A typical example of 1000 jigsaw pieces belonging to 1000 different puzzles, but not to the same puzzle. Wfgh66 (talk) 16:36, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure about "cult of personality and cult of intelligence" in relation to Plantard's activities. Where's the evidence for that? His PoS was a vehicle for his claim that he was the descendant of Dagobert II, nothing more. Wfgh66 (talk) 05:59, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[...] By the way, there are many things in this article about Pierre Plantard and the Priory of Sion that is nothing more than logical speculation and opinion. But, as long as we provide good sources for this logical speculation/opinion, there is nothing wrong with it being included in the article. --Loremaster (talk) 23:03, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Stephen Anderson seriously believes in the version of the PoS that is given in HBHG. He's an American mental health counsellor who heard about the existence of HBHG through one of his patients and he's been hooked on it ever since. Here's an extreme example! Wfgh66 (talk) 05:42, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Steven Mizrach

Same thing applies to Steven Mizrach Wfgh66 (talk) 17:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Concern about another user

If you feel like another user is harassing you, post a description of the problem at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Thanks, NawlinWiki (talk) 21:24, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Citing sources for the Priory of Sion article

Citing sources for the Priory of Sion article

Can you start standardizing the citation of sources for the Priory of Sion article according to the Wikipedia:Citing sources guidelines as soon as possible? --Loremaster (talk) 16:27, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Can you provide a list? Wfgh66 (talk) 16:33, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Dear Loremaster, can you chime in on the various problems currently present on PoS, especially the issue about the symbol where Wfgh sees something I don't see and where I think a source is needed. Str1977 (talk) 21:29, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Find another example of the Fleur-de-Lys as used by the 1956 PoS. I for one would be extremely interested in seeing a parallel example. Wfgh66 (talk) 22:12, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Dear Loremaster, this is the kind of nonsensical request that Wfgh thinks required. I have explained to him that
  • since HE makes a posistive claim (that the PoS symbol combined the Fleur with the Aquarius), HE must provide the evidence.
  • that I do not dispute that the PoS symbol is special and hence am not required to provide evidence for something I do not hold, let alone want to insert into the article.
For some reason he doesn't seem able to grasp these basic principles. Str1977 (talk) 22:30, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
I have restored the original caption to the image. However, the symbol is not the usual version of the Fleur-de-Lys. It has an additional component. Wfgh66 (talk) 22:25, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
I will post this part also on Wfgh's page:
Thanks for restoring the original caption for now. And again: I am not saying that the symbol is the usual. Please do not try to debate this with me as I do not disagree on this. Our disagreement lies with your positive claim about Aquarius. Str1977 (talk) 22:30, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
I think the symbol conflict has died down by now so your intervention is not urgently needed. However, your take on this is still welcome. Cheers, Str1977 (talk) 08:02, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
The symbol conflict only ever flared up in the first place because of those who are unable to understand. Wfgh66 (talk) 13:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Muddled thinking, here:

Wfgh66 (talk) 14:28, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

  • "Plantard modelled his PoS on the ideas of Paul Le Cour, whose book "Age of Aquarius" served as a template." - Is this your research or do you have a reference to confirm this?
  • "For example, the Zodiac in 'Le Serpent Rouge' does not begin with Aries but with Aquarius." - Nice but irrelevant. We are talking about your claim about the symbol.
  • "Segments from 'Les Dossiers Secrets' contain paragraphs from "Age of Aquarius"." - Nice but irrelevant. We are talking about your claim about the symbol. The AoA is nothing special for such esoteric stuff.
  • "Le Cour is quoted in the first issue of Vaincre." - If that is so, it goes to show that Le Cour was important to PP, but still: where does it say that the symbold combined Aquarius with the Fleur?
  • "The article by Paul Le Cour that I quoted from above contains many themes that can be identified in Plantard's documents. And so on." - Yes, again, where is the source for the symbol thing?
  • "It was completely natural for Plantard to have utilised a logo for his PoS that was a stylised version of the Fleur-de-Lys and the sigil for Aquarius." - I don't disagree. But that still doesn't mean that he did it. We need a source.::Str1977

Alph

In the future, please be more careful when you edit articles currently at AfD. While the Alph AfD reached a conclusion by consensus(good!), I noticed that you had removed the AfD notice from the article when redirecting and unredirecting it. This may have been inadvertently, and has probably not influenced the discussion, but it is better practice to let the AfD header be for the duration of the discussion anyway. Fram (talk) 13:23, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Tribe of Benjamin

The Tribe of Benjamin was NOT of the Line of David. Not POV. Not OR. Just plain fact. Wfgh66 (talk) 23:11, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

The reason why Plantard picked the Merovingians as being of the Tribe of Benjamin is because the Jerusalem Temple was built on Benjamitic ground. This explains the significance of Plantard "finding the Jewish treasure in RLC". Nothing at all to do with the Line of David or bloodline theory found in HBHG. Tribe of Benjamin = Sion = Priory of Sion myth. Wfgh66 (talk) 23:28, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Treasure of Jerusalem

Hold on, Plantard did not claim to have discovered the Jerusalem Treasure until AFTER the publication of HBHG. Is there any reference in HBHG to Plantard having found the Jerusalem treasure in that book that you can use as a citation? Wfgh66 (talk) 23:33, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Are you really serious? Deleting this from Priory of Sion

Pierre Plantard claimed that the Merovingians were descended from the Tribe of Benjamin. The Jerusalem Temple was built on Benjamitic ground, arguably explaining why the treasure of Jerusalem was so important to Pierre Plantard, also fitting in with the mythology of his Priory of Sion. Claiming that the Merovingians were descended from the Tribe of Benjamin contradicts the Jesus bloodline theory found in The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail since the Line of David was associated with the Tribe of Judah, not Benjamin.

Wfgh66 (talk) 00:22, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

A mimimum requirement must be emphasised that the Tribe of Benjamin was not associated with the Line of David, but the Tribe of Judah. Wfgh66 (talk) 00:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

There you go again, illustrating my earlier point, behaving as if the Wikipedia Priory of Sion article was YOUR article.Wfgh66 (talk) 00:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

You mean that you should have sole control of the article?

Wfgh66 (talk) 00:41, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Suzanne Olsson

Suzanne Olsson mentioned by her colleague Fida Hassnain as the descendant of Christ not good enough? Olsson was dragged into an anti-Kathleen McGowan thread on a discussion list not long ago presented as the authentic descendant of Jesus against McGowan not long ago. And Olsson has been arguing that McGowan stole her limelight for ages. Removing the name of Olsson from the Claimants List is a joke. It would be interesting to see, however, if Olsson has suddenly stopped making this claim. But in future please do not make deletions about subject matters you know nothing about. Thank you.Wfgh66 (talk) 13:14, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Interaction w/ new users

loremaster....

i find it unfortunate that you undid those edits before talking with me, or even just waiting a bit.

In the first case, yes, I wrote without citing sources in many (perhaps all?) places. I have recently begun writing in wikipedia and my pattern has been to see a need, fill it, make a note to myself, and then return later with sources. In fact, nothing that I wrote is not common knowledge amongst those who participate in discussions such as inclusion/removal of GID from the DSM, for instance, and sources are readily available - tho' as I have already admitted, were not yet included in my edits.

Perhaps this is against the spirit of wikipedia, tho' i certainly do wish to create a resource of unparalleled - and reliable- thinking...not merely a long list of arguments between users.


In this I think we are very much in agreement.

However, it seems that there is much in the article that is unsourced and has been unsourced for quite some time - perhaps always, if the history is any indication.

I find that the neutrality of the article is also, sadly, lacking. There is a deep bias towards, amongst other things, queer theory, post-modernism, a conflation of gender and sex, and the erasure of transsexual perspectives in the search for a common 'trans' perspective.

Shall I, then, erase those sections?

Or perhaps, as wiki generally would like, should I challenge them, leave the challenge up for some decent period of time, and then - if no response is forthcoming from those who wrote or endorse such sections/statements - abide by the policy that is just as important as citing sources and delete those words at the wiki-endorsed process?

Loremaster, I leave to you the answer of how these last two questions should be answered, for I am but a novice here, and you, well... Your screen name says it all, does it not?

I will be unlikely to read your reply here. If you wish to have me read something - a very mild apology for just a touch of hastiness with a new user, perhaps? Or indeed information & advice for such a user. Or anything else that comes to mind - please feel free to post (or copy) what you write to my own user page.

Cripdyke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cripdyke (talk • contribs) 14:57, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


wow....

i just looked at the transgenderism article whose edits elicited such a rapid and unnuanced response from you, loremaster. The rationale for reversal being lack of citation, I would check that article again. There is almost nothing in the article save the section on Martine Rothblatt and the intro to the post-genderism section which in any way cites sources (as opposed to simply linking to other articles about certain terms, which is distinctly different as, no matter how well sourced they are, would not provide the rationale for linking such terms to the subject matter of the transgenderism article).

I mean, I thought you were a little fast on the draw, but now I am frankly dizzy.

I support citing sources and creating a great resource, but I have to wonder if there wasn't something else going on, especially since there are clear procedures for challenging unsourced stuff.

I have no desire to pick a fight with you, and I hope you hear the friendly tone in my voice as I write my comments (both previous and current), but I really am bewildered.

Here's hoping that we can all be friendly, play by the rules, and create a wonderful encyclopedia together. It might be even better if we be especially helpful to the newbies, but that is not to say I do not wish to be accountable for my posts in an adult way.

See ya round the 'net, and, um, really - there should be some sources in that article. I doubt not that the info in transgenderism is generally accurate, but i myself have rarely heard it used outside of the sense: "n. the state of being a transgender person" and the article certainly does not communicate to most users that this is the likely sense in which they are encountering the word if they come to wiki for info on an unfamiliar term they've just read.

so long...and like i said, if you would like me to read a response, feel free to put it on my talk page.

cripdyke —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cripdyke (talk • contribs) 17:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Hi. If you're going to make so many edits in a row on e.g. Transhumanism, would you mind using edit summaries, or at least marking minor changes as minor? Thanks, ~~ N (t/c) 20:23, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Summaries/minor

Again, would you terribly mind using edit summaries and/or marking minor edits as minor? ~~ N (t/c) 18:10, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Suzanne Olsson

Does Suzanne Olsson here claim to be the descendant of Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene? http://web.archive.org/web/20060618031440/jesus-kashmir-tomb.com/GeneaologyA.html Wfgh66 (talk) 23:17, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Communist/Marxist

Just curious, do you know precisely which term is used in the cited material? It can very easily be argued that there are distinctions between the two, and that modern (ie: "governments that have actually existed in the real world") drift away from original Marxist thought in both practice and theory. A very tiny issue, but a curiosity at any rate. --Human.v2.0 (talk) 01:49, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Knights Templar and popular culture

I have nominated Knights Templar and popular culture, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Knights Templar and popular culture (2nd nomination). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? NickPenguin(contribs) 16:07, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Priory of Sion copyedit

I'll see what I can do over the next week or so. That's the best I can promise right now, so if you are looking for quicker work, I apologize. I squeeze copyediting into the small spaces in my real life (which isn't always the best way to copyedit). I also assume you are looking to nominate this article, and while I'm a crack proofreader, I don't know if my criticisms will be as "editorial" as might be needed. I'll give it a shot. SlackerMom (talk) 20:26, 2 June 2008 (UTC)