Talk:Latte

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I'm not sure where to put this, but this article is full of mis-information about Lattes. It discusses "Starbucks style" lattes, and describes them as American. This is not true - a proper american latte is the same as the Australian flat white. If it does not contain microfoam, and is not blended in a certain way, it is not a latte as understood in good american coffee houses - ie just about anywhere in seattle —Preceding unsigned comment added by Charlesaf3 (talk • contribs) 18:35, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Coffee vs. espresso

  • No, a latte shouldn't be made by "pouring milk and coffee simultaneously," as lattes are usually made with espresso, not regular coffe. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.51.198.28 (talk • contribs) .
Espresso is a type of coffee, and the article mentions in the same paragraph, above that line, that a latte is usually made with espresso. As for whether the liquids need to be poured in simultaneously, this is a different matter. With no disrespect meant, I've always found that Americans seem to be far more prescriptive about the "correct" manners of making Italian-style coffees than my local bartenders in Rome. — Asbestos | Talk (RFC) 12:03, 10 August 2005 (UTC)


We really seem to have a semantic problem...defining something (latte) without agreeing on common definitions. I object to the use of the term "regular coffee" , as if it was agreed that this meant drip machine coffee to everyone worldwide not just U.S. citizens. If "regular" means the norm, then surely regular coffee would be "instant". Probably accounts for the greatest proportion of use of the coffee bean worldwide. Generally accepted that a standard espresso shot of coffee is 30mls...seems like a good starting point for adding milk to.

While I agree there seem to be certain conventions concerning how certain espresso based drinks are served i.e. cup sizes and shapes or glasses, I don't see how they in any way change the actual constituency or proportions of the drink to be served, they are merely the vehicle by which the drink is delivered. Having said that I personally would be horrified to be served an espresso in a paper cup. Sam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.154.24.147 (talk) 23:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bowls and napkins

  • I removed the references to Australia and New Zealand, because being served a latte in a glass (with a napkin tied around it) or in a bowl is by no means unique to that part of the world. Skeezix1000 14:12, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling

  • ...and the beverage is in italian correctly written in one word, tied with an extra 'l': caffèllatte ...according to a barista in Firenze - John in Oslo —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.191.126.166 (talk • contribs) .
According to the Italian Dictionary it's either caffellatte or caffelatte [1] --151.44.143.92 14:22, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Glass?

  • Does anyone know why a caffe latte would be served in a glass? - Daniel "burnt hands" in Sydney - —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 125.63.151.129 (talk • contribs) .
Seems the italians as in the rest of the mediterrenean has not had a tradition to serve in china, but in glasses. Cafés on the continental europe has generally served coffee in white china -cups with handles  :) Italian coffee-shops has served caffellatte in kitchen glasses, french and viennese cafés in china. But why your coffeeshop can't get themselves cups, I don't know. Bring your own  :) -and if you burn your fingers, the milk is far too hot! John, Barista, Oslo —The preceding unsigned comment was added by kaffelars (talk • contribs) .
False, as anyone been in Italy can tell, plain breakfast bars always used china cups. Some design glass cups are appearing in fancier bars, but are usually devised for that purpose. No one in his sane mind would ever serve a hot drink in a kitchen glass in Italy.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.38.96.211 (talk • contribs).
I still observe both espresso, caffè macchiato and maracchino (and always caffè corretto) being served in glasses, by sane baristas :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.202.174.161 (talk • contribs).
It could be a north/south city/countryside thing. AFAIK In northern cities everybody always used china cups, even in the rougher bars, but you never know... Where did you see that?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.44.137.161 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Yuppies

I think it'd be worth mentioning that this is the stereotypical yuppie drink. -- LGagnon 02:02, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, definitely. In Scandinavian politics "the cafe latte segment" is in fact a common, sarcastic term for high educated, trendy, holier-than-thou voters. Medico80 09:43, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

In the US presidential race in 2004 John Kerry's core constituency was accused of being "Latté Liberals". I didn't know this was being done in other countries, too. Lg king 01:07, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Latte or Latté?

Where does the accent in some instances of the word in the article come from? To me it looks like trying to "frenchify" the Italian term somehow. I'm not American, can someone please verify if Latté is indeed a common spelling? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.151.80.14 (talk • contribs) .

"Latte" is as above mentioned, the italian word for milk. No accent -neither 'grave' nor 'aigu' should be above the e in this word. You may pronounce it wrong, but don't write it incorrect. The e should be very 'short' in italian. In american, I believe, you pronounce it 'La-teyy'. John, Oslo —The preceding unsigned comment was added by kaffelars (talk • contribs) .
Even in french, you would not put an accent there. Latte simply means milk, it's not an adjective or a participle. Anonymous passer-by.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.142.46.22 (talk • contribs) .
I think the "French" comment has to do with the fact that if you tried to pronounce the word "latte" as though it were a French word, it would have just one syllable.
The latté spelling is common, and irritating. It's as bad as "habañero" or "Türing". --Trovatore 02:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] confusing not contradictory

I've changed the contradiction template for a confusing one as the article doesn't contradict itself, the subject is inherently confusing. The article just needs a little copyediting and restructuring; clarifying the contradictory definitions of different cultures. --Monotonehell 18:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Starbucks has been around since 1971. I don't know if they didn't serve lattes until the 1980's, but i just figured that they would have.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 168.28.180.30 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Glass, Caffe Latte, etc

Hummm , "Caffe Latte", the beverage not the "word" is not italian , even of course is very popular in Italy . Americans only think is Italian, cause they know Italy much more than all the other countries, lol . U heard about Italy and France, and thinks that everything from Food (& Recipes) , comes from Italy and France . Rubbish (sorry) . The same, in literature, to France and Germany !! (im wrong?) And then, u put french and italian names, in everything, lol . Just pure non- sense . I'm Portuguese, and what u called "caffe latte", and then many names in french etc, and many theories, etc, in my country have all these names , such : "garoto ", " galão" , "meia de leite", "cimbalino", etc etc .. This, are just the most important types of "caffe latte", in my country ,Portugal . Imagine the others . Sorry, but i will not tell why its drinked in what u called "china" (but ITS NOT BY "TRADITION" ) , but have everything to do with "coffee", "milk", and incredibly (LOLOLOL) with Portugal . (that was a tip) I am Mediterranean, European, consumer, I even used to have a restaurant, I know History , etc etc . My name is Paulo Quintela, and i am here > http://partidaritenao.blogs.sapo.pt/ , (in Portuguese, and serious subjects) , so im not anonymous . All the best to you , all ... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.193.134.80 (talk • contribs) .

Dear Paulo, I did not quite understand you  :) But indeed, the word "caffellatte" is italian, and -as I believe you state here, the beverage did not originate in Italy. True. But it did not come to Portugal until after it had been a common drink in Italy and France and Spain.

The portoguese imported coffee from their colonies just as the french and the spanish did, and the italians has imported coffee longer than any other european country. But it was in Austria the continental "café" traditions developed -in Vienna- , and it is believed it was there someone for the first time served publically coffee with milk in it -as a speciality drink-.

But it was the french who made it popular, and thus the demand for better equipment to serve coffee rapidly and in larger numbers in the popular cafés in larger cities, resulted in larger coffee machines in the 1800's. The italians improved these during the first half of the 1900's, and almost patented the idea itself. Good espresso machines spread from Italy to France to Spain and Portugal. In most of Italy, parts of the french riviera and in Spain, many coffee drinks are served in smaller or larger glasses; I understand that is also the tradition in Portugal. Thus, the beverage named 'caffellatte' (and even more, the cappuccino!) grew in popularity -and the way the italians modernly made it with their new improved espresso machines after the war -the idea was sold to cafés all over quite soon.

The french first served their beverage as 'café au lait', but now commonly names it 'café crème' (Grand Crème if served large).

There is a common misunderstanding that 'café au lait' is a french term used for regular coffee and warm milk being served in cafés. At their homes they may call it this, as the italians would call the same beverage made on their kitchen stove 'caffèllatte'. But as in Italy, you won't find regular coffee (from drip coffee makers) in public cafés anymore. They all have espresso machines. And although you may ask for 'café au lait' in a french café, what the waiter writes down (or shouts to the barista) is 'un créme!' :)

The term has been borrowed, though, and here in Norway, a 'café au lait' -in a café - is the same as a caffèllatte.

People are confused, and some say the french word is used when you serve it in a white china bowl, while the italian word is used when you serve it in a tall glass. There is no true answer -and it does not matter that much. The spanish use their own language: "cafe con leche" (and the catalans in Barcelona use their term "café amb llet"). In Germany, though, a "Milchkaffee" isn't quite the same beverage. But the idea is more or less the same: coffee and milk.

A translation sounds silly in norwegian  :) -just as in menus worldwide, a traditional dish is more specified when named in its presumed original language. A "boillabasse" cannot be translated without losing its identity. English "fish'n chips" has to be presented just like that. 'Cappuccino' is often written differently (capuchino?), but there is no way to translate that.(You may try to translate the word 'spaghetti' to your own language.).

I digress hehe. Did I answer any question? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.217.29.234 (talk • contribs) .

A tool such as Wikipedia is useless if those that write entries do not research first... The latte, or cafe latte, or caffe latte (excuse the lack of accents where applicable) was invented in 1959 by the owner of Cafe Mediterraneum in Berkeley, CA. The Med, while a little run-down, is still an operating cafe today.

[edit] Innappropriate language

Is it really appropriate to refer to anything as "the 'gay' drink", regardless if quotation marks are employed? It seems this is the exact opposite of NPOV...

Article text: "Latte is also reffered to as the 'gay' drink by many people due to its high milk content and the sweet taste in comparison to something much more bitter like a black coffee." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 156.145.89.123 (talk) 14:52, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

Text removed. It was not sourced. Skeezix1000 15:01, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Latte vs. Cappuccino

When comparing lattes to cappuccinos, the Latte article states, "Outside Italy, a latte is typically prepared with approximately one third espresso and two-thirds steamed milk, with a layer of foamed milk approximately one quarter inch thick on the top. The drink is very similar to a cappuccino; the difference being that a spoon is used to separate the layers of foam and steamed milk in a latte, while the milk in a cappuccino is free-poured (lattes also typically have a far lower amount of foam)." Whereas the Cappuccino article states, "Cappuccino is an Italian coffee-based drink prepared with espresso, hot milk, and milk foam. A cappuccino differs from a caffè latte in that it is prepared with espresso and much less steamed or textured milk than the caffè latte."

So which is it? Does a cappuccino have less foam than a latte, or does a latte have less foam than a cappuccino? Also, is there a difference between any of these terms: 'steamed milk', 'foamed milk', 'hot milk', 'milk foam', and 'textured milk'? They seem to be used interchangeably in some articles and very distinctly in others... even within the same articles. And what is the difference between a latte and a cappuccino as ordered in say, a Starbucks? Not that they're necessarily the authority, I'd just like some basis and they're pretty universal and internally consistent (which is more than I can say for Wikipedia). Onlynone (talk) 20:32, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

You're right, there needs to be better internal consistency. I'd like to take a shot at that in the near future to clear things up. But to give a brief summary based upon a few years of working in American coffee shops (and several more lounging around them):
The consistency of the milk is the key difference between a latte and a cappuccino. The confusion comes in the application of this understanding. If you follow the Starbucks standard, which is widespread but actually tends to deviate pretty often from what's accepted at most other professional coffee shops (for several reasons), a latte is a shot or two of espresso with milk poured on top and a layer of foamed milk (around 1/2") at the top. Their cappuccino, on the other hand, is nearly the same, except with less liquid milk and more foamed milk (company manuals suggest about 1/3 espresso, 1/3 liquid, 1/3 foam, but your mileage may vary).
Again, that's the Starbucks model. At independent places (and, as I understand it, in European shops), a latte will be more or less similar, but a cappuccino has a difference in how the milk is prepared. Rather than pouring in the liquid and then spooning on a separate layer of foam, a professional barista will introduce more air into the milk during the steaming process, thereby making it lighter in consistency (but different from the foam created by large bubbles). This is what's referred to as textured milk, and is what goes into a true cappuccino, rather than two separate layers.
Before someone else comes on here to tell me that I've got it all wrong, I should point out that it's hard to land on a universally-accepted definition. It doesn't help that gas stations will have "cappuccino machines" which spit out a powder-based beverage that has nothing to do with an actual cappuccino, further confusing things. So, it looks like there needs to be an appeal to some reliable sources here to define the drinks in as NPOV of a way as possible. Looks like it's time to hit the books. Tijuana Brass (talk) 00:36, 19 December 2007 (UTC)