Talk:Jade use in Mesoamerica

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Contents 1 Jade not used in China before 2nd Millenium CE? 2 Michael Coe quote? 3 Not Used in North America 4 Jade page Changes 5 A jade source not near Motagua River??

[edit] Jade not used in China before 2nd Millenium CE?

I think this statement is mistaken: jade was widely used in China well before Christ, and were in fact jade burial suits were "relatively common" during the first few centuries of CE among members of the society that could afford them: see Jade burial suit. The line in this article might need some clarification: is it meant to say that jade was commonly used for everyday-use tools in Meso-America and that these would've been affordable to the common people?

[edit] Michael Coe quote?

Can anyone confirm the quote by Michael Coe (and maybe add information concerning who he is)? I only included it in my reworking of the article because it was already there, but noted that it was very similar to the grammar and style of the previous version. Thanks!

Salmar 23:16, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Not Used in North America

Surprisingly the exception to the rule that neolithic cultures all used jade is in North America. Nephrite was strewn all over central Wyoming but the indians don't seem to have used it. Similarly there was a lot of Jade in the Kobuk Valley in Alaska and in British Columbia but it doesn't seem to have been used by the natives.204.227.223.53 16:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)Tlaloc

[edit] Jade page Changes

I made some changes to the page and add external links, in fact I change the China part, Dr. Coe is a renown archaeologist, mainly in the Maya area of Guatemala.Authenticmaya 03:39, 1 January 2007 (UTC)AuthenticmayaAuthenticmaya 03:39, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A jade source not near Motagua River??

Mesoamericanists: This article says that "the only documented source of jadeite in Mesoamerica is in the lowland Motagua River valley." but the map seems to show another source, in western Mesoamerica. Any light on this would be appreciated. Thanks, Madman (talk) 03:25, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

AFAIK the only confirmed sources of actual jadeitite rocks (predominantly composed of jadeite mineral) in Mesoamerica are the couple of Motagua valley locations. I think the second source indicated in the map is meant to be the Balsas River in Guerrero, which does have (at least) serpentine deposits. I think the Balsas river has at least been a long-time suspected or likely candidate in the past as a source of jadeitite, as there have been jade "workshops" uncovered there, and the source of the particular type nicknamed 'Olmec Blue' remained a mystery. But I gather (this is the main paper on it) a fortuitous exposure after erosions from Hurricane Mitch revealed some other Motagua region deposits (Sierra de las Minas, as well as 'upstream' in Jalapa Dept. at Quebrada Seca) with colour characteristics of Olmec Blue jade, possibly solving this mystery.

Apart from that, I've seen some references to alluvial jade/jadeitite in Costa Rica, but it's not clear (in what I read) that these were kosher deposits, or confirmed to be jadeitite. --cjllw ʘ TALK 08:13, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I based the map on Porter Weaver third ed. On page 184 she has a map of highland resources (map 6.2) which shows sources of both serpentine and jade/jadeite along the Balsas river. ·Maunus· ·ƛ· 10:03, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

This paper states that "Jaideite constitutes only a small portion of the green stones worked by the Olmec. The center of green stone working among the Olmec was apparently in the vicinity of the Balsas River in Guerrero State. Archaeologists have discovered a workshop near the confluence of the Amacuzac and Balsas rivers with "fragments of jadeite, silex, jasper, onyx, and quartz, as well as obsidian and marine shells, dating to about 1000 B.C." (Griffin 1993: 206)."·Maunus· ·ƛ· 11:03, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Wow, that was fast. Thanks for the information. Madman (talk) 13:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

If Porter Weaver's map indicates "jade/jadeite" at the Balsas river location, I wonder whether she's using "jade" in a more loose, archaeological/cultural sense, than the stricter geological one (in which 'proper' jade is basically only either jadeite or nephrite; the latter is not found or used in Mesoamerica). By my reading of some other sources (now added to the article's refs) while there was an influential jade- and other greenstone-working industry in the Balsas region, there's still no known actual deposit containing jadeite mineral there; the jadeitite stones found there were (in the absence of such a source) possibly imported from Motagua. The Seitz et al. 2001 paper puts forward the new-found sites to the north and sth of the Motagua river as compatible with the stone quality and colour of the 'Olmec Blue' worked artefacts from Balsas and the Guerrero region. --cjllw ʘ TALK 06:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

My guess is that she lends credence to the speculations of a source there based on the workshop findings. Apparently people have speculated about a lost jade source on the Balsas since the time of William Spratling.·Maunus· ·ƛ· 09:26, 12 February 2008 (UTC)