Talk:Italia irredenta
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[edit] Dalmatia
Dalmatia is not in the list of target regions, but the later disclaimer specifies it.
So did the party target Dalmatia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.58.3.237 (talk • contribs) 14:14, 27 October 2004
General tone- Irredentism
The general tone of the article is not very balanced. It treats the political aims of Irredentism as somehow illogical and childish.
It very conveniently neglects mentioning that Guglielmo Oberdan was executed, and so were Cesare Battisti, Nazario Sauro, Damiano Chiesa.
Not mentioning the main political figures of Irredentism is a major error. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.190.72.16 (talk • contribs) 16:13, 27 September 2005
- This article was taken from 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica, that is in an age in which Italy was allied to Germany and Austria; thus the bias, and thus the interest in 1877-1878 events.--Panairjdde 17:56, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
- I've removed the most of the comment of Fromtline, that wrote an amount of Propaganda lies, about the irredentism in Dalmatia. I've verified he is one of the many fanatic nationalists, acting in wikipedia.--Giovanni Giove 06:46, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Including yourself! --Anto 15:02, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Lock?
Why the partial lock on this article? Epeeist smudge 13:45, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] No "terre irredente" but "terre irredenti"
There is a mistake in the title of an article: the correct form of "terre irredente" is terre irredenti. In Italian "terre" is a plural noun so also the adjective must be plural ("irredente" is singular adjective and so it's wrong). Another "irredenta" is an adjective so the first letter is small (no "Italia Irredenta" but "Italia irredenta"). Thank for consideration, --82.53.56.53 22:10, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Faded away and vandalism
Who's playing dumb here [1]?
Deleting the lines "Italy openly propagates" and substitutes it with "irredentism faded away"?
That's vandalism.
"Faded away", but with persistent claims towards neighbouring countries territories?
There's no excuse for that. Even if someone uses the excuse like "it was by some minor parties, like MSI", these is not the excuse. Official Italy didn't suppress such expansionist rhetorics, nor prosecuted it. To make things worse, did MSI later became one of governing parties in 1990's? Kubura (talk) 08:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Deleting of external links. Vandalism by Pannonicus [2].Kubura (talk) 09:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Unregistered user removed the line [3] about italo-optants. If he had doubts, he could put the tag "fact" or "citation needed". Interesting, those users that remove never put a line about the Italian fascists and fascist collaborators, that ran away, because of fear that justice might get them. Kubura (talk) 09:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Italo-optants
There were few accords regarding that.
Peace accord with Italy (articles 19 and 20) (whose legal "strength" started on 15 Sep 1947) regulated opting possibilities (opt to stay or leave).
Also, Pravilnik o opciji osoba s područja pripojenog Federativnoj Narodnoj Republici Jugoslaviji po Ugovoru o miru s Italijom, Službeni list FNRJ br. 109/1947, regulated this.
Second accord was signed in 1951.(Sl. list FNRJ br. 1/1951. i br. 12/1951).
Leaving of Zone B of Free territory of Triest was regulated with Memorandum o suglasnosti (točka 8.), signed on 5. Oct 1954 (Sl. list-MUIDS br. 6/1954).
Third accord was signed in 1965, Uredba o ratifikaciji sporazuma između Jugoslavije i Italije o regulisanju nerešenih slučajeva opcija za italijansko državljanstvo, Sl. list –MUIDS br. 8/1965).
Few legal possibilities, but lesser used for leaving for Italy, were one which was given option to give up on Yugoslav citizenship. Zakon o jugoslavenskom državljanstvu (Sl. list SFRJ br. 38/1964) and Agreement of Osimo from 10 Nov 1975 (his legal validity started on 11 March 1977) (Sl. list-MU br. 1/1977) . Kubura (talk) 10:08, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Rename
would it not be better to name the article "Unredeemed Italy", or "Unclaimed Italy"? We do not use the Italian version of the name: Italian Unification, so surely the same principle shoula apply here. Personally I would opt for "Unclaimed" rather than "Unredeemed". Crystalclearchanges (talk) 12:37, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
- It suggests that some kind of Italy is in question, which is not correct, since debated territorries are not Italy. Actually "Italian irredentism" would be the most correct. Zenanarh (talk) 15:10, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
- Well I would be happy with Italian irredentism. But I think unredeemed italy or unclaimed italy would also suit it. What does everybody else think? We need an admin to help the move. Crystalclearchanges (talk) 19:42, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Maltese language
as is going on in a long-term discussion that comes and goes on this page, some users are trying to push the idea that Maltese is purely arabic with only an insignificant input from Sicilian and Maltese. I was hoping that some people here, having studied this sort of thing, will be able to help get rid of the POV pushers, and show that Maltese is just as equally Italian (well... Sicilian/italian) as it is Arabic. Thank you 78.145.139.94 (talk) 19:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Neutral language
I tried to use a more neutral language. Please, do not think that I like Fini, Menia, etc, but saying that "Dalmatia was stolen to Italy" is not expansionism, just persecution complex, "we should annex Dalmatia" would be expansionism. I add some facts, with their references, checking what was added in the past to the article. Clap (talk) 13:49, 24 February 2008 (UTC) Ah, I erased the text which says that "Italy openly propagates irredentistic ideas even in the 21st century" because it's an opinion, and not a fact. There are no Italian politician, at least belonging to parties represented in Parliament, that says that the Italian State should expand itself to its "natural borders", like the irredentists said. Anyway, please note that I did not write this in the article. Let the facts speak alone. Clap (talk) 15:30, 24 February 2008 (UTC) I substituted the words "Italo-optants" and "exiles" simply because I think that noone outside Italy and former Yugoslavia know what these words mean. The expression "the Italians who went away from Yugoslavia after WWII" is only descriptive, as I did not want to say anything about how they are perceived in Italy or Croatia. Clap (talk) 15:42, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
- Italo-optants should be used (with an explanation inside brackets). It is easier to memorize.
- More important thing : does Italy have expansionistic intentions? We are not talking abou some irrelevant far-right figures.
Nobody would listen to Fini's words if he wasn't on the position. That gives an official meaning to that. Especially if Italian fascists protest in front of Croatian embassy. And authorities support it. --Anto (talk) 18:38, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Please, "Italo-optants" is considered biased in Italy, so why shouldn't we use a neutral term? If you changed the expression, another edit war would start... I think that noone need to memorize the term. Regarding Italy's expansionistic intentions, don't worry. I'll answer on your talk page, 'cause it's a little off-topic. Clap (talk) 16:57, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
As I have told: I don't care for some irrelevant right-wing figures. my concern are those who are on power. If the member of executive powers do something or say something then it is relevant. We don't care too much about Menia's statements so far.
But , if he came to power then .... it would be a huge problem.
--Anto (talk) 18:47, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Clean up
I've attempted to streamline the article to bring it back to what it's supposed to be about (more or less)- Italian irredentism of the Risorgimento. Most of the material better suited to Greater Italy and fascist aspirations don't really belong here, other than some mention because they may be "rooted" in irredentism or they use "irredentism" as a pretense. In addition, I've tagged some sections I see as WP:POV forks. They too need to be cleaned up and changed from what reads like a blog forum into something more encyclopedic. Dionix (talk) 20:50, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
