Talk:Hudson's Bay Company

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Hudson's Bay Company was a good article, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Delisted version: March 6, 2006


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After substantial research I conclude that HBC Inc has a good claim to being the direct successor to the Company of Gentlemen Adventurers. The TSX listing is shown as continuous back to 1963. Henry Troup 16:07, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

The Hudson Bay Company is one of the oldest corporations in North America, but it is definitely not the oldest, as the Harvard Corporation, also known as the President and Fellows of Harvard College, was given its charter on 9 June 1650 by the Great and General Court of Massachusetts.

The following text was removed from Hudson Bay Company and that page made a redirect to here:

The Hudson Bay Company may be the oldest company in North America. It was almost 200 years old when Canada formed in 1867.
It began as a fur-trading enterprise and evolved into a trading and exploration company that reached to the west coast of Canada and the United States, south to Oregon, north to the Arctic and east to Ungava Bay, with agents in Chile, Hawaii, California and Siberia.
Today it is one of Canada's largest retailer's and is now known as "The Bay".

The Bay stopped selling fur because animal rights groups campaigned on this issue, while few groups campaigned in favour of selling fur. In 1997 however, the Bay found that there was demand from the public for fur, so that it made sense for them to start selling fur once again. There are two points here. First, animal rights groups represent their membership and also their supporters, but they do not represent the whole public, so the opposers should be identified clearly. Second, there is a group of people who like wearing fur and that group is not negligible, and includes a large part of the middle class. Vfp15 02:38, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Re the active campaigns, I was thinking active campaigns against fur in general, which started decades ago, rather than specifically against the Bay. But Rosemary's change is fine too. Vincent 08:54, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The controversy over selling fur all seems to be related to retail sails at HBC's department stores. Why the HBC got out of the fur wholesale buisness should be an important part of this article (there's a huge gap between "19th Century" and "Modern Operations"). I've started a little article on one sucessor company (North American Fur Auctions) but there's probably another based in London which was once known as "Hudson's Bay and Annings". Can't find anything more at the moment, though. Toiyabe 00:00, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] WTF is The Indian Trade?

The article refers to the Indian Trade. WTF is the Indian Trade? It turns out that The Indian Trade is an Americanism, and, as such, I would question whether it belongs in a discussion of Canadian history. The history of the rest of the World should not be dumbed down, for Americans. Discussions of history should not be restricted to American terms. Geo Swan 15:54, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Point Blankets

I have removed the statments that state that point blankets related to the number of beaver pelts which were traded to obtain one blanket. This is a very long, protracted untruth about the fur trade - the points have to do with the manufacturing of the blanket and the number of pelts - beaver or otherwise - required for a blanket varied considerably throughout the years. I simply don't have time right now, but I will do a significant edit to the Hudson's Bay point blanket article sometime soon to clear this up. CWood 23:31, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Early years

JillandJack, if you are reading this, how were Radisson and Groseilliers victimized by the French aristocracy? Is that really any more informative than saying they defected? (I was the one who originally wrote that they defected but I admit that I don't know why they did so.) If you're going to write such a bombastic edit summary it might help to have more info first :) Adam Bishop 01:20, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

  • Actually, it appears to have been User:Decumanus that first said that they "defected"-- See his 9 Jul, 2004 edit "expansion of early history". As to the "defected"/"victimized" contention, both seem a tad POV. I am changing it to "felt victimized". Mwanner 14:45, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)
Oh, okay, sorry for stealing people's credit :) Adam Bishop 16:48, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Radisson (and Groseilliers?) was a protestant (Hughenot?) and was discriminated against because of this. Vincent 01:14, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Here Before...

Actually, it is "Here Before Christ", not "Here Before Canada." --Steven Fisher 02:24, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hudson's Bay Company removed from Wikipedia:Good articles

Hudson's Bay Company (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) was formerly listed as a good article, but was removed from the listing because no references

[edit] updated logo

Would anyone be adverse to updating the coat of arms/emblem to the new (2002) version that the company has adopted, versus the historical one presently listed in the article?


Image:Hudsons Bay Company Coat of Arms-2002.jpg --Kmeister 19:55, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Delisted

Now that Jerry Zucker's company has completed its purchase of the Hudson's Bay Company, the shares of HBC are no longer traded on the Toronto Stock Exchange. I have removed the TSX reference from this page and from its counterparts in other languages. TruthbringerToronto 13:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject: Retailing

Hello, a new WikiProject called Retailing has been created, and we invite anyone who is interested in joining to sign up. If you would like to join it, then list your name on Wikipedia:Wikiproject/List_of_proposed_projects#Retailing. TruthbringerToronto 13:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Retailing is now active. Happy editing, Tuxide 05:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photo

I would suggest the Downtown Winnipeg Bay store be used as the photo and it is undoubtedly the largest and most architecturally attractive department store in the country.--207.161.43.149 22:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Consistency issue

In the end of the fifth paragraph of the 19th century segment of the article, it refers to John McLoughlin having previously turned American settlers away as an HBC employee, and welcoming them later as an Oregon City businessman. While McLoughlin's job was to turn them away, much of his fame in Oregon history is due to him NOT doing so. He disobeyed orders and welcomed the Americans when he was specificly ordered to discourage American settlement of the region - as is mentioned in the wikipedia article on John McLoughlin. Even without going to outside sources, there's clearly a conflict here. I don't know if that sentance would serve any purpose once that error was corrected, so I'm not changing anything myself; but I'm hoping someone will find an appropriate way to correct that erroroneous statement. Nithos 19:59, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually the whole 19th Century conpicuously passes over the history of the Columbia, New Caledonia and Athabaska (sp?) Fur Districts; I added some see also items that are relevant, but there's more (what's the Muscovy Company doing there if the Russian American Fur Company isn't? Also in the edit comments to one of my additions I suggested that there should be a List of Hudson's Bay Company employees, and also a List of Hudson's Bay Company trading posts, both of which would be quite extensive. As for McLoughlin, he's particularly infamous in British Columbia historiography for helping out the American annexationists, not just in material help (which no HBC employee would have refused them, no matter their political leanings) but also in actively assisting the political agenda of the new settlers; an "American sympathizer"; his bio page btw is heavily American-flavoured, as also are certain articles dealing with Pacific Northwest history, which downplay the HBC far too much IMO, but that's a longer story and it's time for lunch....Skookum1 21:47, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] French?

Is there a reason the Company's name is given in French? As far as I know, the company was English, run by English, Scots, Irish and Anglo-Canadians. Why is the French name there .... just curious? Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 15:34, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

That is what it is called in Quebec. Adam Bishop 19:51, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
In its retail era anyway; I'm pretty sure that prior to that, when Montreal was the largest English-speaking city in Canada, that the Company's incorporation never included a French name; it was after all chartered in London, not in Quebec. But given the retail entity's profile and name, it should still be here.Skookum1 20:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:The Bay.png

Image:The Bay.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:21, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] North West Company

It is said that Radisson and Desgroseillers went back to New France to found the North West Company, but on the NWC site it is said that the company was founded in the late 18th century.--74.210.140.130 02:24, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] HBC misspellings..

There are an enormous amount of articles that include the misspelling "Hudson Bay Company" (rather that Hudson's). Is there a way to get a box to fix these en masse? Thanks - TheMightyQuill 07:23, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Has anyone fixed this yet? I could do it with AWB... Katr67 16:24, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:WikiProject Fur trade?

or Working Group; HBC, NWC, RAC, PAC and mountain men and marine fur traders et al; the border-spanning (and continent-spanning) nature of the topic matter kinda of calls for a common discussion place, maybe, i.e. as working group spanning WP:Oreg, WP:AK, WPCan etc and linked in their templates or somehow in talkbanners...; But maybe a WikiProject or WP:Fur trade Working Group ain't the right place; just a thought anyway, in the course of editing/commenting on Fort Durham.Skookum1. (talk) 02:50, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

NB the marine fur trade area btw implies WP:China, though that's not HBC relevant.....WikiProject Hawaii theroetically appleis though...Skookum1 (talk) 02:54, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
I also think a WP:Pacific Northwest history and indigenous peoples Working Group (or split that in two, but given the nature of history in the region it's pretty much unavoidable).Skookum1 (talk) 02:56, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
The working group in question meant not for general local history, but articles whose topic/content/personages span teh border/region...intrinsically, at least in most 19th C. cases, they're heavily interlinked with native history (the non-indigenous bios not so much, depending on who....).Skookum1 (talk) 02:58, 31 May 2008 (UTC)