Talk:Himura Kenshin/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Cleanup

whoever cleaned up my old Amakakeru Ryū no Hirameki details.... thank you very much. I'll pay keener attention to spelling and such in the future. --Faucett 00:59, 6 July 2006 (UTC) There was a lot missing about the biography, I felt, so I added/changed a few things here or there roughly a week ago. -Dream Rurouni

Pictures?

I have noticed that there is a lot of pictures, some screen shots some are not. Does http://www.animegalleries.net allow people to just take there pictures? Alus 04:05, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Additionally, is it allowable to submit images with a visible copyright, e.g. "© 2006 Watsuki/Shueisha"? -dano, may 23, 1:40a Enishi Hair It's DR again, I was the one who added a lot to the Ishin Shishi/Tomoe days of Kenshin. I noticed that someone mentioned enish "bleached" his hair. This (to the best of my knowledge) is never doucumented nor said, I believe the manga implies his nerves caused his hair to age prematurely/turn white, not bleached.

Death in OVA

Does anyone think that the disease that him and Kamiya Kaoru had was Systemic Lupus Erythematosus? It sounds and looks similar but I am not sure. Alus 04:05, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

There is no confirmation at all as to what disease Kenshin and Kaoru really "shared". So, just like the ending itself, it is entirely up to the reader what disease killed Ken-Kao, but that would be the closest guess I could think of.

As the matter was never actually addressed within the OVA, we can unfortunately never be entirely sure of what disease they died from. While I always assumed that they simply died of a form of leporsy, the disease that you mentioned could fit as well, I suppose. RPH - aka - Shogun 22:13, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

The date of Kenshin's death is 1895, not 1894. He leaves Tokyo in 1893 (as listed in the QVA) and returns in 1895 (after the wars is over. ) Nlf7 09:40, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


I removed mention of this from the introduction, as it is a spoiler.

Umbrella Style

What is actually known about the style of the Umbrella that Kenshin uses against the circus people? Symmetric Chaos 13:21, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Pretty much nothing as it was entirely the brainchild of the filler staff. I don't think Watsuki even had any imput in the matter. RPH - aka - Shogun 22:13, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I thought that the disease sounded like syphilis. It is an STD obviously, and they get the red rash known to be a symptom of the STD. However I don't know anything about the history of syphilis, if the disease even existed in Japan back then, or how Kenshin would have gotten it. He obviously didn't get it from Karou, the only other woman we know he was with was Tomoe, and I think that syphilis is a faster acting disease than that. Maybe he got it from blood? 134.129.56.220 21:30, 13 February 2007 (UTC)silverwolf

wrong section, and it'd be original research anyway so theres no reason to dwell on what disease/how he got it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by NeilHynes (talk • contribs) 18:29, 25 February 2007 (UTC).

Which ending is more universally accepted?

What ending do most Kensin fans go with, the OVA ending where he and Kaoru die or the manga ending where they simply settle down and raise Kenji together with no more wandering, diseases or death?

As a purist, I go with the manga ending. However, I can understand those who like emo and angst preferring the darker OVA ending.

Jinchuu Crusader 06:18, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Sango. The fact that the OVA goes against the established canon of the manga discredits it in my book (and most of the other fans that I know). Don't get me wrong, the OVA ending was awesome (as was the rest of it), but I prefer to consider it as an alternate ending at most. RPH - aka - Shogun 22:13, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, not to mention they somehow made the OVA's animation look worse than the anime! -Iopq 12:55, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
I hope you're talking about Reflections. Personally Trust and Betrayal looked better than the anime, although I loved the series style, I just thought Trust and Betrayal was more clean looking and had more of a serious tone; which is appropriate considering they had more of a serious setting than the series. 206.229.18.66 18:50, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

The way the article is written makes it seem like the OVA ending is a sequel to the manga ending, and not an alternate take of the events. 190.37.152.91

Although it wasn't written by Watsuki, the OVA ending was intended to be a sequel to the manga ending (not an alternate take of the events.) Seven 01:17, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Uhh, that's crap. Look at the way it differs in regards to the details of the Enishi and Jin-E fights. It's definitely an "alternate" ending, maybe even taking place in an alternate universe entirely.--24.22.147.202 08:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
That's the official version. (I'm no fan of the OVA, but I've checked the official website and read/seen all the interviews.) Please note that encyclopedic content must be verifiable by reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy (see Wikipedia:Verifiability). Our hands are tied!
As for the details of the Enishi and Jin-E fights, please keep in mind that there are also differences between the manga Tokyo Arc/Kyoto Arc and the anime Tokyo Arc/Kyoto Arc. These differences aren't called "alternate". That's what happens when a book is made into a movie or a TV series. Seven 09:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

--- Also didnt the ova ending come out first, i remember an interview where the series creator mentioned how his ending would be different because he prefered happy endings. 209.244.31.47 00:25, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

No, the manga ending came out first. Seven 11:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

The OVA isn't canonical since Watsuki himself stated that he wanted Kenshin to have a happy ending and that he wasn't involved with the plot(not to mention elements of the OVA contradict the events of manga, like Kenshin offering his life to save Kaoru, when in the manga, he rejected the notion of suicide or death in order to atone). Kenshin Kaden further resolved the manga's ending by stating they had picnics with their friends each year(again, conflicts with the OVA). I don't see how the original mangaka's work can superceded and deemed "official" by an adaption. Simply put, if it's not a work of the author, it isn't canon.

And yes, anime adaptions are alternate interpretations on the original, especially with the inclusion of filler and liberties that were taken once it was animated(like Ayame/Suzume, the the re-imaging of the Raijuuta mini-saga, the circus episodes, etc).


—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.242.96.251 (talk) 06:54, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Have it This Way!!!

In my opinion, Kenshin dying is someow good and not good. Please don't get me wrong, I would love to know that he wouldn't have died and that somehow on a day i don't expect there will be new episodes. On the other hand, Kenshin not dying makes him invinsible... and that - I suppose was one of the rerasons Kenshin faught Shishio Makoto for. Not making hm die in the w\end wiould let some shallow minded people more like warship kenshin as if he was something real and not just an anime character.

Maybe i took it somehow religious but i believe we have to consider that. I adore Kenshin OVA and so I do for the 95 episodes, but we have to be somehow logical. No one would have survived all these wounds, and the OVA ending was the most suitable in my opinion.

L.W April, 4th, 2006

Erm, right. Well, Wikipedia is not a place discuss your feelings about the series. It is an encyclopedia. I can't see what you want changed or what you think needs to be fixed in the article itself. I think the article accurately displays what happens in the OVA, the anime, and the manga. --Trance 22:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I think you're mistaking this for a forum, this is an encyclopedia that shows information objectively. Katsuhagi 21:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

kenshin sword style

what is the name of kenshin's sword style?--Geterdone 20:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I have vol. 1 here and Sanosuke says "The Chōsū Revolutionary, Himura Battosai...whose way is the ancient sword-school of Hiten Mitsurugi-ryu." I can't really tell if the last word is supposed to have a hyphen or not but I hope that helps. Sasuke-kun27 20:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
it does ,thanks Sasuke-kun27
Always glad to help when I can ^_^ -Sasuke-kun27 17:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
It's Hiten Mitsurugi Ryuu, there should be two 'u's, or a flat accent over one 'u'. And there is no hyphen (sp?). Kishyotai 11:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

pic

we need to add a pic at the intro.--Kenshin -Himura 22:37, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I have a pic here, licensced and everything. We'd have to make it about 200-250px but other than that, its pretty good. Can we use this? Sasuke-kun27 01:15, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Awsome!--Kenshin -Himura 19:20, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Messages to an anonymous user

Please edit the article based on facts (not on personal interpretations.) For example, there's no indication that Kenshin becomes suicidal in hopes of 'joining' Kaoru and Kenshin and Kaoru never make a promise to never be apart again in the manga. Moreover, the following paragraph should've gone straight to this page:

"He has realized that the string of bad events throughout his life, being orphaned and sold into slavery, becoming a manslayer, Tomoe's death and his ten years of lonely wandering, had all led him to a happy ending with Kaoru, his supposed 'soul mate.' "

Don't get me wrong! I (more or less) agree with the above comments but they aren't based on facts according to the manga. Some people have different interpretations. Therefore, personal comments/interpretations/opinions should've been on this discussion page instead (and not on the article page.) Seven 05:53, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


I've decided to delete part of your recent edit:

"He and Chizuru, because of their similarity to Kenshin and Kaoru, strongly resemble the history of a great love repeating itself in the next generation. The final message seems overall to be bittersweet, with Kaoru and Kenshin's life over, but a new generation growing up in a peaceful world free of bloodshed - exactly the vision he had fought for - and killed for - so many years ago."


Sasuke-kun27, I was following Commander Keane's advice:

"Make the accurate change with a good edit summary. If they revert, drop a note on their talk page and discuss on the article's talk page. "

I made the accurate change with a summary on Sep 21 2006 and they reverted on Sep 22 2006. Therefore, I made the corrections again on Sep 22 2006 and left messages here. Seven 23:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


Again, I've deleted your edit. Where does the following quote come from??? It isn't from the (original) script!

I would live my life, the rest of my life, only for you, just to make you happy, because that is what you truly deserve.- Quoted directly from the Seisouhen OVA, in the scene where Kaoru asks him to join her family- from anonymous user. PS: It was edited into the Seisouhen Ova section of the page. Therefore, it's a fact, maybe not according to the Manga, but to the OVA

You've quoted it wrong! Quoted directly from the Seisouhen OVA:
Karou; "I wouldn't say to you to live only for me. I know your hands, those can create more smiles among more people. Your life doesn't exist only for compensation...I think your life exists in order to create more happiness from now on. So, please make my dram come true."
Kenshin: "Anything I can do to make you happy... If I can make you smile. " Seven 20:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I quoted from the english dubbed version. Before Kenshin talked about wandering japan and seeing that Samurai's mother, he said those words i quoted. Yours may have been from the Japanese language version. I just watched the proposal over again (in English) and he said those words. It's from the director's cut version. Maybe they're different, too...

Please note that I've stated that "it isn't from the (original) script!" (Yes, I've got the director's cut version.) The difference between the subtitles (close enough to the original script) and the English dubbed version is when Kenshin says Anything I can do to make you happy, the English dubbed version says "I'll do anything for you!" (So, please watch the OVA again.)
By the way, the English dubbed version is beyond terrible! In Tsuiokuhen's case, they made way too many mistakes in the historical background session (on one occasion they spelt "Kyoto" as "Tokyo,") not to mention the terrible English dub.
Let me give you a few examples:
In the scene where Kenshin says to Tomoe I will protect you, make sure that you are happy, the English dubbed version says "Would you marry me, really?"
In the scene where Kenshin says to Katsura I will lend you my sword to your cause, Tomoe saved my life. I think she knew I would have to fight once more, I believe that, the English dubbed version says "I'll lend you my skills. Tomoe was destoyed by the Shogunate. They used her emotions to control her. I will make them pay for that."
(If we edited the articles according to the english dubbed version, it would be a total disaster!) Seven 04:09, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


Kenshin and Kaoru marry around two years after they first met? according to what? They met in early 1878 and Kenji looks about two or three in Summer 1882. In any case, since it's not stated in the manga, it's not a fact. Seven 03:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Move

Requested move: Himura Kenshin to Kenshin Himura.--Kenshin -Himura 20:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I oppose because we'd have to do that for every other Rurouni Kenshin character. Sasuke-kun27 20:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I'll do it.--Kenshin -Himura 20:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Let's wait for some more opinions and see where it goes from there. Sasuke-kun27 20:23, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
anyone second me or sasuke?--Kenshin -Himura 20:25, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Please.....anyone anyone at all?--Kenshin -Himura 20:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I second Kenshin -Himura.--Geterdone 20:28, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I third him/her.--Yoyo-man 20:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I oppose the move. Though they are fictional characters, they are also pre-Meiji characters, and policy dictates that people in this category be ordered as family name + given name. ~SnapperTo 23:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I also oppose it. Besides the fact that we would have to do all the characters in the same way, which would take way too long, any links to the article would be broken and god knows how many pages link to this one. That and I honestly don't see a good reason, they are Japanese characters and therefore follow Japanese conventions.Katsuhagi 11:04, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Also take note that all three of those users do virtually nothing other than comment on talk pages. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 23:13, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
What diffrence does that make?--Kenshin -Himura 13:08, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
You don't contribute anything, so what experience do you have in such matters? You just make random comments on talk pages and occasionally move pages against consensus. Go edit some articles and get a feel for the process. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 20:23, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Temporary Protection???

In the past month, an anonymous user's been editing the article (as well as a few other RK articles) not only with facts, but also with inaccurate info, "fan fic" and personal interpretations repeatedly. He/She has disregarding the policies and comments from other editors.

Moreover, on 25 October 2006, he/she changed 202.156.6.54's "i luv tomoe... she is sooooo cute and pretty!!!!!!!" to "i strongly dislike tomoe... she is sooooo dead and ugly!!!!!!!" on the Yukishiro Tomoe discussion page. (Whether 202.156.6.54's message was pointless or not, this anonymous user went too far.)

Since the page has been a recent target of persistent vandalism or/and persistent edits by this anonymous user, should we suggest the page be protected? Seven 00:28, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Hiten Mitsurugi Ryuu Editing

I'm going to edit a few things about Hiten Mitsurugi Ryuu;

  • Kuzu Ryuu Sen; in Kendo there are only three types of cuts, it's clearly stated in the manga that the cuts are based on Kenjutsu. Kendo is the something like art of fencing in a competition-based environment, while focusing on the swordsman spirit. Kenjutsu is the art of the sword that involves 'cutting', and eventually killing, the opponent. So, the intro to the technique is wrong.
  • Editing in Kanji and a literal translation of Hiten Mitsurugi Ryuu.

-Note: I edited in the Kanji and a literal translation, but I'm not sure what format Wikipedia uses to signify literal translations, so I used italics and put it in parethensies. Help is required.

  • Editing in Kenshin's mentioning the sword style was founded in the Sengoku period (Chapter 1)

That's all I've got for now. Kishyotai 11:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Meiji Restoration

Kenshin decided to get involved with the revolution in 1863 and served as an assassin from 1863-1864; the Meiji Emperor ascended the throne and took the name Emperor Meiji in 1867. There was no such thing as the Meiji Restoration until later and Kenshin didn't serve as an assassin at that time. Seven 20:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Takasugi Shinsaku and Katsura Kogoro were both leaders of the Chōshū clan. Seven 21:00, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

The last 5 years of the Meiji Restoration could be in the 1880's. Seven 20:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Oro

Tell me, how can a lengthy article on Kenshin go without mentioning Oro or his other speech quirks once?--24.22.147.202 08:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

In case you haven't noticed, this article still requires more work to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Seven 09:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Improvements

This is the things I think we should improve:

  • In the plot overview we should only mention the most important parts in a few sentences
  • Change the techniques to paragraph mentioning only the most recurring and important.
  • Create Background section by combining early life and tsuikohen (again only important)

If you like this Ill start working immediately. Please answer. Tintor2 (talk) 12:42, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Eh, I don't have a huge issue with that, but it'll be difficult to compress his early life (aka events that happened in Tsuiokuhen), since the creator took the liberty of expanding the character in that area. Events in the Rurouni Kenshin anime shouldn't be too hard to merge though. As for the techniques section, the former format of the Hiten Mitsurugi-Ryū techniques seemed fine, however, I did consider the misc techniques area of little importance. Still, all his techniques can be compressed/shortened or integrated rather than a majority of it being simply removed. Though I doubt it can be compressed into one paragraph, since Hiten Mitsurugi-Ryū is a bit too intricate, and it has to be explained before describing the techniques. Also, there are no other related articles that can explain Hiten Mitsurugi-Ryū techniques and origins, which can possibly result in it seeming in-universe (if only the techniques are described, it'll sound confusing without an explanation of Hiten Mitsurugi-Ryū).
Since my vacation got interrupted by a flurry of rain, which seems like it'll last for another 2-3 days >.<, I think I can try to work on this tomorrow. I've already constructed a formatted draft, so I'm more than positive that I can complete it by this Saturday or Sunday, but if you really want to work on it, please tell me first, so I can just continue to work on another article. And if anyone can add references to the current article, that'll be helpful. DarkAngel █▀▀007▄▄█ 08:07, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Instead of giving details about the feelings of the character we can use a personality section, for example the line "Throughout the Rurouni Kenshin period, Kamiya Kaoru develops strong romantic feelings for him, which he comes to realize. Despite his feelings, he is constantly haunted by the wrongs committed in his past, and believes he doesn't deserve happiness." could enter in personality as we can add the formal way of talking and the famous "oro?." The one of the tecniques was an advice given by many editors review, since most techniques dont paly a huge role in the series and many are used only once there is no need in having them. For other examples see the Naruto Uzumaki and Son Goku (Dragon Ball) articles. There is no need in telling the difference between the OVA and manga as these differences are added in the OVA article and the manga is the original canon. There are also many fair use image for a character article.Tintor2 (talk) 9:12, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I also think a personality section is one of the things that this article is lacking. And it'll shorten some parts of the article if one is made. As for the techniques; each technique doesn't have to be mentioned, and most of it can be left out; I only meant that an explanation of his development in Hiten Mitsurugi-Ryū and Battōjutsu is necessary, which would probably only take up one (or two small) paragraphs. Then the primary Hiten techniques can be mentioned with its following variations, but without a long explanation in how the character executes the technique, which would most likely only be one mid-sized paragraph. DarkAngel █▀▀007▄▄█ 23:40, 3 January 2008

One thing I have been thinking about the techniques is that Kenshin isnt the only user of the Hiten mitsurugi ryu. Hiko, Yahiko and that guy from the fillers also use these techniques. Maybe we can create a section for the hiten and there we can put every technique.

I changed the main image because the other was form the manga but if anybody wants you can replace it.Tintor2 (talk) 14:06, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, since the basics of Hiten is no longer an issue, I've compressed the techniques section (renamed as such since Kenshin doesn't really have any other fighting skills beside swordsmanship; "Swordsmanship" is actually a good section title too). I shortened/compressed it more, removing some of the step-by-step details in performing the move, without removing the technical aspects in its effects or general use, and got to add in a mention of a few more.
And I did revert the image to the one of the manga, since there's really nothing wrong with a colored manga image. Also, the manga image shows more of Kenshin's truer and original colors; at least for a majority of the series. DarkAngel █▀▀007▄▄█ 06:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Awesome edits. The problem of the image is copyright policy. IMHO, manga images should only be used if there are no anime ones. The changes of colors is common in every manga and anime. Although it may look different, the difference is just the light.Tintor2 (talk) 14:06, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Well WP:NFC (along with WP:C/c) states that cover art (which the current picture is) is acceptable for use in identifying the character. And by the colors, I guess I just meant his robe, which is technically (dark) red for a majority of the series (manga and anime), and the current pic also shows more of the character. Also, the anime over manga images are usually done by preference. But...if you want to rv the picture, then I don't really have a problem with that.
Also, in my recent edit, I just replaced a few sentences that weren't too significant to his own story with the ones that dealt more with his development and reasons (technically just an information switch <.>). DarkAngel █▀▀007▄▄█ 07:14, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, now what we need to complete is the personality section. If anybody wants we can change it to character outline to describe the appearance of Kenshin, his scar, etc. Instead of the getting deep in Battosai we can explain it simply as there is no explanation about this strange change.

After that Ill start with the references. The only problem is that I dont live in USA so I dont have the ISBN of the volumes. Tintor2 (talk) 13:28, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

For the ISBNs of all the volumes just go here (Viz's official Kenshin manga section). On the side, it lists redirects for all the volumes, which each contains the corresponding ISBN code. DarkAngel █▀▀007▄▄█ 05:10, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello, there are a few things I want to ask:

  • The other media lacks info about the movie of ruroken and I dont remember more or less what happened, can somebody edit that in a few sentences? Tintor2 (talk • contribs) 11:42, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Is there an article about the 9 points of the swordmanship to link it with the Kuzuryusen?
  • Im uploading a technique picture about Kenshin (they recommended), Im thinking in the amakakeru ryu no hirameki(since it is hard to explain), do you agree?
  • does anybody know a website where they sell rurouni kenshin toys to add to reception?
  • can somebody who knows japanese check the background and see if the kanji is ok? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tintor2 (talk • contribs) 11:48, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Well see you.Tintor2 (talk) 9:18, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Kenshin having Schizophrenia or DID

Don't you think that maybe Kenshin have Schizophrenia or Dissociative identity disorder for having 2 characters inside him: the peaceful wanderer: Kenshin Himura; and the brutal slayer: battousai the slasher?! -Elyu January 11, 2008 9:04a

Well, Kenshin is definitely not Schizo, seeing as how he does not suffer from delusions or anything of the like. As for DID, he doesn't have that either, since he is completely aware of his actions. His Battosai personality is more like something that refers to his ruthlessness; when he gets pushed over the edge. Rather than multiple personality, it's more like the outward personalities he chooses to show in front of others. Besides, both of those are just original research and unless some justified facts from the series or reliable source states (or implies) that he has either of these disorders, then let's not jump to conclusions. DarkAngel █▀▀007▄▄█ 06:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Elyu, no original research is allowed. Only say so if Watsuki says so. WhisperToMe (talk) 00:33, 5 February 2008 (UTC)