Talk:Great Wall of China

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August 2002 - November 2007

Contents 1 Han legend? 2 Visible or not? 3 Capital W? 4 Longest/largest structure? 5 building material 6 Discovery Channel special 7 No human remains in the construction 8 This article lacks detail 9 Circular reference 10 Can't edit semi protected or whatever 11 Maps 12 No word about its functions? 13 200 BC - 220 BC 14 He/She

[edit] Han legend?

The Qin Dynasty wall image has an explaination of what the colours represet (and there's only one wall color) - the Han one has 3 wall colors (and some dotted lines) and doesn't have a legend. Anyone wanna add one on the image page? TheHYPO (talk) 08:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

As well, the false-color satellite image which purportedly shows the wall does not give any indication of where in the image the wall is... I for one don't know where it is in the picture. Can anyone add some sort of clarification to the image TheHYPO (talk) 08:43, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Visible or not?

> The Great Wall has a maximum width of gay 30 ft (9.1 m), far below the size that would be visible at a distance of 999999999999999999999 miles (384,403 km) (the average distance between the earth and the moon). <

This statement from the article is dubious. Look at a radio/TV transmission mast a dozen miles apart. Suprisingly the steel ropes holding the guyed mast vertical are often visible to the eye, even though they are only inches thick (better say thin). However, they are very long and this makes it possible for the human eye to discern them. Similarly the gap in Saturn's ring is sometimes visible with just 20x or 30x binoculars, which is optically impossible based on the comparision of width and eye resultion. However, the ring gap is also very long and this aides the eye.

Similarly the extreme lenght of the chinese wall may aid the eye to recognize it. This definitely needs further research. 91.83.19.241 (talk) 23:36, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

The statement is in question is entirely reasonable. No-one has ever claimed to be able to see the wall from anything other than a low earth orbit - 100 miles or so. The idea that it could be seen from the moon predates space travel and is obvious fiction, unsupported by a grain of evidence.

You could try this test - look at this Google Earth picture Badaling in which the Wall runs North to South - I defy anyone to identify it although many building as perfecty clear. Only when you zoom in will it become apparent.

Also, the idea that the wall is of 'extreme length' is an over-simplification. It snakes in many directions, it condition is often so delapidated as to merge with the rocky landscape and for huge distances it has all but disappeared. I have flown over some of the better preserved lengths and very often, it can hardly be seen from a plane. If you believe it can be seen from the moon, then frankly, you will believe anything.

There are many myths about the Great Wall: That it can be seen from the moon. That is a lie. Astronauts thought that they could see its shadow from space, but it was really just clouds!

--John Price (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Just to put it into perspective, the notion that the Great Wall is visible from the Moon is equivalent to that of spotting an extremely long piece of string from cruising altitude on a 747. No matter how long it is, it is ludicrous to claim that it can be seen.

Calculations: The average flight altitude of a commercial jet is around 10 km. Given that the Moon's closest point of orbit is 363,103 km from the Earth, a jet is 36,310 times closer to the Earth. Divide the widest point on the wall (9.1 m) by 36,310 and you get a width of 0.25mm.

--Caifeng Blah554 (talk) 23:22, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I saw a 2cm long piece of string from 18 miles away with the unaided eye. It all depends on your eyes.

Of course you did (!) --Caifeng Blah554 (talk) 20:44, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Capital W?

In this article the word "wall" when used by itself is sometimes spelt with a capital W, sometimes lowercase. Which is correct? And can we keep it consistent? Fantom (talk) 16:56, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the capital W is the correct one. If the sentence uses the term "great fall", then it should be capitalised. But if the sentence uses the term "the wall", then I think it would be in lower case. Oidia (talk) 04:51, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Longest/largest structure?

The List of Largest buildings page makes absolutely no mention of the great wall. And it definitely isnt the longest man made structure, the distance it covers in nothing when compared to the Pan-American Highway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.230.183 (talk) 09:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

A highway is not a structure, a highway is an infrastructure. Oidia (talk) 17:58, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

A highway is a structure as well as forming part of an infrastructure; the two are not mutually exclusive. The Great Wall of China is, therefore, neither the longest nor the most extensive man made structure. I also have grave doubts as to whether it is the most massive considering the amount of tarmac, earth and concrete that go into building a road. If anyone can offer any more information on this, it would be appreciated. If not, I will be editing in order to remove these erroneous/dubious claims. --Caifeng Blah554 (talk) 22:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] building material

what is the differince between the eastern and western building material of the great wall of china? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.84.172 (talk) 01:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The material on the west is positioned slightly differently, it seems to be placed more to the western regions of the wall —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.251.229.70 (talk) 01:41, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discovery Channel special

The Great Wall was featured as part of Discovery Channel China Week, with the documentary "Behind the Great Wall". It's an interesting show if only because it also takes a look at the personalities who conceived of the Great Wall, rather than just the Wall itself. Have a look here: http://www.channelcanada.com/Article1532.html. I don't know if it's appropriate to add a link in the article so I'm just going to leave it at that. But I think some of the content, if accurate, is worth adding to the encyclopedia. Ham Pastrami (talk) 02:34, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[[Media:Example.ogg]

[edit] No human remains in the construction

The article states, "Contrary to the belief peasants were not buried inside of the wall as the stability of the structure would have been threatened once their bodies decomposed." This assertion has no supporting evidence and is just as baseless as the statement that humans were indeed buried inside the wall; therefore the statement should be removed. The latter part of the statement applies a pseudo-scientific argument about the engineering of the wall. It presents no concrete evidence (pun intended) of the engineering infeasibility of putting human remains in the wall and assumes that the actual engineers knew it would create instability. The common belief that there are human remains inside the wall may be an artifact of oral history. It is plausible that there were actual incidents of intentional entombment, or the builders may have merely neglected to remove the remains of those who died during construction. Both the belief about human remains and the number of deaths from the construction may stem from Chinese folklore which states, "Every stone in the wall represents the death of one of its builders." There is no doubt that the wall was built with considerable amounts of slave labor, and given the known brutality of the Wall's conceivers and the deaths observed in the construction of modern marvels, it's not implausible that millions died in its construction. The fact that this page is not editable tells me that there is considerable disagreement of fact, and our observation of Chinese propaganda and censorship of the internet identifies at least one of the parties to the disagreement. 98.207.78.26 (talk) 18:00, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

The page is not editable by anonymous (IP) editors because of recurring vandalism, not because of disagreement over facts.

As far as the decomposed bodies, I removed Contrary to the belief peasants were not buried inside of the wall as the stability of the structure would have been threatened once their bodies decomposed. because (a) no source is given and (b) I think this is trivial (even assuming that the claim was made by a reliable source and rebutted by a reliable source). Per WP:NOT, Wikipedia isn't an indiscriminate collector of information. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 15:00, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

That statement has no substance - It has been estimated that somewhere in the range of 2 to 3 million Chinese died as part of the centuries-long project of building the wall. Needs to be removed as well. --Tigga en (talk) 11:46, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] This article lacks detail

This article lacks detailed information about many relevant aspects. For example, nowhere in the article does it mention the fact that The Great Wall was a site where conquered peoples (such as the ancestors of today's Cantonese peoples) were enslaved en masse.

You need to find reliable sources that will confirm those statements. Oidia (talk • contribs) 12:00, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

It is very surprising indeed that this article still says nothing about conquered peoples being enslaved. Considering that this is a well known fact, this omission needs to be addressed now. Paradoxically enough, the Wikipedia article Nam Viet does state the following:

The Yue, under the domination of the Han (Han Wudi) was forced, wiped, tortured and enslaved to repair and enhance the Great Wall of China.

Perhaps someone is deliberately censoring material here and on the article itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.109.98.211 (talk) 10:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think anybody is deliberately censoring information; if you want to add information on enslavement find some reliable sources and add the information. I haven't got the knowledge or know of the sources to do so myself. --Caifeng 82.16.98.54 (talk) 17:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Circular reference

There is a reference to Great Wall of China website. But that website says It uses material from the Wikipedia article "Great Wall of China". I guess we should not use it as source then. --Tigga en (talk) 21:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I like the Great Wall of China!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.246.148 (talk) 22:11, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Can't edit semi protected or whatever

But a foot is not 15cm as claimed in the article, it is 30.48cm someone else fix it for me............ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.237.79.148 (talk) 11:55, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Have edited as the figures didn't make sense. Using the analogue of being 100m away the thread would have to be 1.5m long not 15cm or 1ft. More importantly, it is the width (at 2.3μm) which makes it invisible. --Caifeng Blah554 (talk) 17:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Maps

It would be helpful if the various maps included in the article showed the modern provincial boundaries. Otherwise, it's difficult to get a sense of where in the PRC the various walls actually are. -- Beland (talk) 15:37, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No word about its functions?

why is this structure built? for art? i cant see any graffiti on it. If protection, what was the efficiency of it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.107.92.126 (talk) 07:16, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 200 BC - 220 BC

In the intro 200 BC - 220 BC should be 220 BC - 200 BC I guess. Isn't it? -ArazZeynili_talk^contrib_{07:54, 10 May 2008 (UTC)}

The great wall was not built for defense. Rather, it was built to keep out evil spirits. This is why the wall has so many dead ends and curves in it. It was not built efficiently to provide any defense at all. In fact, it would actually have been easy for any invaders to scale it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.239.235.166 (talk) 13:32, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] He/She

"Not surprisingly, no lunar astronaut has ever claimed he or she could see the Great Wall from the moon."

Removed "he or she." No female has walked on the moon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Heterodyne (talk • contribs) 21:46, 12 May 2008 (UTC) the reason why the great wall is there so that the mongoles and othere invaders kill them —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.245.4.213 (talk) 02:21, 13 May 2008 (UTC)