Talk:Free Derry

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Contents 1 POV 2 Massively Important 3 Samuel Devenny 4 Protestants in the Foyle Road 5 WikiProject class rating 6 Gay Pride 7 Very quick review

[edit] POV

I think this article is highly POV. To say "equal voting rights did not exist" is technically inaccurate, although the system was generally considered to have been weighted in favour of the Protestant majority. I don't believe any of the civil rights associations were ever 'banned' by anyone, nor do I believe 'beaten on the streets' is reflective of the situation, not to mention that it is highly emotive language.

The first half of the article needs a rewrite that is more balanced... --Breadandcheese 17:36, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

The issue mentioned above no longer appears to be present in the article, so I removed the NPOV banner. -- Hux 21:12, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Massively Important

This is a massively important event in irish history , it needs to be expanded greatly (Gnevin 22:25, 6 September 2006 (UTC))

Irish history? Northern Ireland is part of Britain! I'm sick of reading "British this and British that" on this page such as British Home Secretary, British Army, British troops, this wasn't a foreign country that they were involved in, it was and is a part of Britain. Adding British is entirely inappropriate and NPOV and i'm removing the propaganda. YourPTR! 20:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Adding British is indeed entirely NPOV (although I suspect you meant to say POV). At the time we are talking about Northern Ireland was essentially self-governing and had its own Home Secretary and its own security forces, the (armed) Royal Ulster Constabulary and the Ulster Special Constabulary (B-Specials). The deployment of troops from the regular British Army, and the visit of Jim Callaghan, were the result of a decision by the British Government to get involved in Northern Ireland, which it had not done in the 40-odd years since the creation of the state. Also, in the case of the army, regardless of your POV it is essential for clarity to distinguish it from the Irish Republican Army. Scolaire 07:29, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I think we should talk about Ireland, and not The Republic of Ireland - Northern Ireland is part of Ireland, hence the name- it's also part of the UK, but it's not strictly British in that it's not part of Great Britain. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry 19:03, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Samuel Devenny

I have edited and expanded the paragraph on the Samuel Devenny attack as the original text was written with a political slant and not in an encyclopedic way. In editeing and expanding it I have added the official documented statements of the reason why RUC officers decided to try and enter the property and what is alledged to have caused the resultant attack on the family. It is also wise to point out that officially Mr Devenny's death remains by natural causes and the statement in the article which used the term murder, while highly emotive, is not officially accurate. As an article wiki Free Derry is not supposed to present opinions on what happened as seems to have been the case in the Mr Devenny paragraph. Instead it can only present encyclopedic fact. While appreciating that the deaths of victims in the Northern Ireland troubles is, as stated before, highly emotive and often tinted by political opinion, within wiki it should remain purely factual.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.202.136.227 (talk • contribs) 21:05 (UTC), 27 June 2007.

It's a well-written paragraph but, to be honest, I think there is way too much detail for this particular article. The death of Samuel Devenny, while it may have been one contributory factor in the building of barricades, was not in any way related to Free Derry per se. Scolaire 14:25, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. That much detail would be good for an article about Mr. Devenny, or an article about that incident (especially in relation to the NICRA and the Civil Rights movement in general), but not in the Free Derry article. In general, this article is in need of a great deal of work. ---Theoldanarchist_Comhrá 16:55, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

The work has begun :-) Scolaire 18:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protestants in the Foyle Road

I am moving the following paragraph to here. I have been unable to find any mention of the story elsewhere. It can be restored if a verifiable source is cited:

One major issue of the time was the inclusion of the Foyle Road area, which was considered to be approximately 25% Protestant. Some simply packed their bags and abandoned their homes in the hope of being given housing in the Waterside of the city but others, who owned their homes or held mortgages, were either unwilling or unable to leave. The action came to a head in January 1970 when members of the Provisional IRA burst into the dwellings of the remaining Protestants and issued them with a warning that if they did not leave within twelve hours they would be shot. The attacks infuriated the members of the Official IRA, many of whom had regarded the Protestants of the Foyle Road as neighbours and friends before the troubles. During the next day members of the Oficial IRA visited those who were still in their homes and assured them that no harm would come to them but that wider events had made their staying in Foyle Road impossible. Despite the dwindling power of the Official IRA the residents were protected from attack during a protracted negotiation with the council who between 1970 and 1976 compulsarily purchased the properties, for a fraction of their value, and rehoused the residents in the Waterside.

Scolaire 18:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll take a look in Tim Pat Coogan's book, and see if he mentions this. It sounds awfully damn speculative to me. Good call, Scolaire. ---Theoldanarchist_Comhrá 16:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:04, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gay Pride

The Gay Pride story is now eight months old. I'm moving it from its current place to a footnote, including the link to the BBC story. It's definitely time that the pink wall pic was removed; it gives the impression that the article is about Gay Pride. Scolaire (talk) 14:45, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Very quick review

More to follow...

• Troops from 1 Para then moved into Free Derry and opened fire, killing thirteen people, all of whom were subsequently found to be unarmed

Perhaps include the death of the fourteenth somehow? I'm aware he was killed before 1 Para moved in. (Done. Scolaire (talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))

• Like the killing of Cusack and Beattie the previous year, Bloody Sunday had the effect of hugely increasing recruitment to the IRA

Undoubtedly true, possibly add a direct quote from someone about how it was increased? I've seen plenty in books, I'll try and find one myself. (Done. Scolaire (talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))

• Best was a local boy...

Although "local boy" is pretty much common usage, there's probably a slightly more formal and encyclopedic alternative? (Done. Scolaire (talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))

• The following day 500 women marched to the Official headquarters in protest.

Official SF? Probably best to clarify that. (Done. Scolaire (talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))

• Motorman

A bit about the scale of the operation wouldn't go amiss, it was the biggest Army operation since the Suez crisis. Possibly expand "the IRA took the decision not to resist it" to add slightly more context.

• "The talks were not resumed after the ending of the truce following an incident in Belfast"

Possibly expand that slightly. "incident in Belfast" is vague, and only invites the reader to wonder what sort of incident but doesn't tell them. (Done. Scolaire (talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))

I'll take a look at the rest later, but it's certainly a huge improvement and an easy B class. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 19:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Few more thoughts...

Merge the "Name and location" section. The name can probably go in the background section, less sure about whether that's an appropriate place to merge the location, but I'm never keen on tiny sections when you've got much bigger ones if they can be avoided.

Possibly a bit more about gerrymandering. From memory the Catholic wards returned less councillors that the Protestant ward(s?), despite being numerically larger, thereby ensuring permanent control. It's got some good detail already, but doesn't explain it well enough. As it's talking about waiting lists in that section, I seem to remember a famous example (was it Michelle Gildernew's mother?) of a Catholic being refused a council house/flat that was given to the secretary of a Unionist councillor? Details may be slightly off on that, so correct me if I'm wrong. Think that would be a good example to add.

Apprentice Boys march. Perhaps a bit about them deliberately organising the march for the same day to force the issue? It's referenced in the NICRA article, I remember referencing it. (Done. Scolaire (talk) 23:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC))

Burntollet. "anti-civil rights counter-demonstrators" is a bit vague, let's call a spade a spade and include Loyalist, plus the "off-duty" RUC and B-Specials that were there too. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 21:57, 14 April 2008 (UTC)