Talk:Fred Astaire

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Just in case 69.36.245.131 who deleted the song was not vandal: :They Can't Take That Away From Me

Words & Music by Ira & George Gershwin

• Performed by Fred Astaire in the movie Shall We Dance (1937)

and in The Barkleys of Broadway (1949))

• Recorded by Frank Sinatra, 1962

Contents 1 Astaire and Bill Robinson: 2 Niven's painting anecdote 3 Fair use rationale for Image:FredAstaire.jpg 4 misattribution 5 Kudos 6 Frederic "Fritz" Emmanuel Austerlitz 7 WP:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers priority assessment 8 Neutrality 9 Tap-dancing: more on Astaire's influences?

[edit] Astaire and Bill Robinson:

I've reverted Kevin j's edit due to absence of a citation and a conflict with the following authority: John Mueller's Astaire Dancing p.116: "Astaire was not particularly impressed by Robinson as a dancer, and tended to regard him as a one trick artist who mainly tapped up and down stairs...He had boundless admiration for another black hoofer John W. Bubbles, considering him a truly great performer, particularly for his spontaneity and dazzling inventiveness"

Please see the Swing Time article esp. the entry under "Bojangles of Harlem" for more info.

Astaire first met Robinson in 1912, when he was thirteen and already dancing on stage for eight years, and this is what he says about that meeting in his 1959 autobiography Steps in Time p.49 "The great Bill interested me, not only for his incomparable dancing but for his good nature and likeable personality - in addition to his ability as a pool player. He often watched our act. His first words to me were "Boy, you can dance!" That meant a lot to me. We discussed dancing and compared steps."

Interviewed in 1984 for Bob Thomas' Astaire, The Man, The Dancer, p.27, he goes further: "Bill Robinson was a buck dancer. I admired him, but I didn't want to do what he did - the wooden-shoe up and down the stairs. John Bubbles was different. I don't know whether he used tap shoes or not but he was stylish. I used to meet him occasionally and we'd try steps together, but at that point in my career I wasn't doing much tap dancing"

So, while he clearly admired Robinson, it doesn't support Kevin j's assertion that Robinson inspired Astaire to become a dancer. Dermot 14:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Niven's painting anecdote

Niven's version of this anecdote is famous and has often been included in the article. But like many of Niven's anecdotes, it is wildly exaggerated:

From Bob Thomas - Astaire, The Man, The Dancer, p.198:

"In The Moon's a Balloon, David Niven wrote of Astaire's pride in his racing stable. Niven termed his friend "a pixie, timid, always warm-hearted, a sentimentalist with a Lefty Flynn-type penchant for schoolboy jokes," and he told of an early-morning telephone call from Astaire: 'I've done a terrible thing. I don't know what possessed me, but at four o'clock this morning, I got out of bed and drove all over Beverly Hills, painting the city mailboxes with my racing colors.'

FRED: David loved to tell a story, and his stories got better with each telling. Imagine me going around painting mailboxes! I could have been arrested! What happened was this: I must have been bored one night, and I was thinking that mailboxes were colored the same blue as my racing colors, which were blue and yellow with a red cap. I added a strip of yellow adhesive tape to a couple of mailboxes, that was all."

Dermot 21:22, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:FredAstaire.jpg

Image:FredAstaire.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 08:53, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] misattribution

He did dance to Pick Yourself Up (with Ginger), but Ginger was the one who did most of the singing, so I don't know that you can say he introduced it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.236.21.230 (talk • contribs).

When both artists share in the singing of a song for the first time, the term "co-introduced" is used. In this case, Astaire sings the lengthy introduction and Rogers sings the chorus. D7240 09:36, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

4.236.186.137 14:23, 19 August 2007 (UTC)Well, yes, granted, although it's the clip of her singing that's anthologized widely. The thing is, the article doesn't say he co-introduced it. It says he introduced it, which he really didn't.

I actually agree with the basic point about singing ability, but the phrasing is perhaps not accurate here, and there are many (more famous) examples where there'd be no ambiguity. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.236.186.137 (talk) 14:23:49, August 19, 2007 (UTC)

The article does say he co-introduced it. The paragraph begins with "Astaire also co-introduced a number of song classics via song duets with his partners2 and goes on to say "in duets with Ginger Rogers...". Unlike the previous paragraph which deals with songs he introduced on his own, this paragraph specifically deals with numbers he co-introduced with partners. D7240 14:34, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kudos

A while ago I noticed Astaire was entry #0000001 at imdb, which I thought was an interesting fact. However, I hate "Trivia" sections in articles, so I was not anxious to see it listed in one. To whomever had the idea of putting it as a side note on the imdb link, well done. Novel way to work an interesting fact into an already-existing part of an article. Just wanted to say that. -R. fiend (talk) 00:18, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Frederic "Fritz" Emmanuel Austerlitz

I would like to point out that the name Emanuel is not published in Larry Billman's book Fred Astaire - A Bio-bibliography and it is actually not published in any book yet. The name was first discovered after several researches in the Austrian archives by Alessandra Garofalo from Italy and the news have been inserted first on www.germanhollywood.com/astaire.html to which other website take links. I would suggest to re-associate the note [3] to this website. Fritz1899

As you correctly point out, it is not in Billman. For the moment, it's probably best to leave it out until such time as the various researches underway are published in a reputable scholarly source, as per WP:V and WP:RS. I have also appended a reference to Satchell's book where Fritz's parents (Stephan Austerlitz and Lucy Heller) were first identified.D7240 (talk) 20:14, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers priority assessment

After debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles, this article has been continued as top priority. Wildhartlivie (talk) 09:55, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality

Some of this sounds like it's been written by a very adoring fan, unless Fred Astaire is some sort of demigod. Especially in the "Working methods and influence on filmed dance" paragraph. Some exapmles: "His perfectionism was legendary, as was his modesty and consideration towards his fellow artists... Although he viewed himself as an entertainer first and foremost, his consummate artistry won him the adulation..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.165.109.209 (talk) 22:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tap-dancing: more on Astaire's influences?

I have moved a reference to Bill Robinson and John Bubbles as influences on Astaire to the proper place for it in the biographical section. The cited reference is a web page on Astaire which seems to be derivative from other sources. This topic is important enough to deserve both better sources and perhaps an informed paragraph on Astaire's sources for his tap-dancing technique and choreography. —Goclenius (talk) 21:06, 9 June 2008 (UTC)