Talk:Flag of Estonia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Flag of Estonia is part of the WikiProject Estonia, a project to maintain and expand Estonia-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the importance scale.

Heraldry and Vexillology Portal

Flag of Estonia is within the scope of the Heraldry and vexillology WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of heraldry and vexillology. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.

This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. (FAQ).

This flag was not banned immediately after the Soviet invasion. When the Soviet army invaded Tallinn (September 1944) after the German occupation, the blue-black-white flag was hoisted in the tower of Pikk Hermann along with the red flag. Andres 20:40, 2 Sep 2003 (UTC)

This actually happened in June 1940 after the Soviet coup when the Estonian flag was hoisted along with the red flag for a few days before the Estonian flag was removed altogether. In 1944, the Estonian flag was hoisted as the Germans fled, but was removed by the invading Soviet army three days later.

[edit] The nordic alternative version

Any updates if this might still happen or if it's been dropped? Daniel 18:01, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative version

I removed this section because I believe the "cross flag" proposal is too unimportant in the context of this article. I live in Estonia and I've heard about it, but it was never widespread enough to be taken seriously. This section made it seem as if half of Estonians would like to change the flag, which is far from the truth. If someone wants to include it, please provide citations and don't exxagerate ("public debate" and "some Estonians resent the flag" is inaccurate/misleading language). --Rain74 15:09, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Could you put the information back in, but in a corrected form, reflecting the actual debate? According to FOTW, there *was* a debate -- in 2001, not after independence. I still think it's notable, but would prefer it if *you* entered the information, as you're more likely to omit possible errors... ;) —Nightst a llion (?) 11:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't know very much about this proposal, other that it existed and was discussed in media a few years ago, but was never taken too seriously. I'll try to reword the paragraph a bit, though. Rain74 15:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I found the original proposal in an Estonian newspaper, and added a link. Although it was proposed by a notable politician, I still don't think this belongs to this article, as there has been no political debate to change the flag, nor has anyone ever considered an actual change likely. I'm keping it for the time being, though. Rain74 15:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Removed it again. I agree with Rain that the proposal is not noteworthy. If the article would cover detailed history of the flag in great length, then it should probably be mentioned, but for now it just confuses. The caveat at the end of the section is not enough to clarify that it was proposed in a newspaper article by a regular columnist. No steps were taken, almost no discussion ensued and there are no sources to claim that it received considerable support. Mieczyslaw 17:43, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

If you want to remove it, it should be put to a formal vote. Wikipedia doesn't only provide information that is 'widespread.' And I maintain that the point is noteworthy to anyone interested in the history of the flag. I agree that when it popped up in Eesti Päevaleht recently it wasn't exactly a national debate, but the subject has been brought up a number of times, even as early as the first republic (remember the flag illustrated is only one of the proposals), and is part of the ongoing debate on Estonia's image (Nordic vs. Baltic/Eastern European). The fact that it is not detailed enough isn't reason to delete it. If you want more detail, add some more - that's how Wikipedia is meant to work, innit :) kieron 02:41, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Granted, the nordic cross flag didn't gain much popularity, but this idea has been around since pretty much the beginning of Estonian independence and some Estonians still consider this seriously. I occasionally hoist the cross flag on my house in stead of the tricolor and I've seen some other examples of it in use as well.

Whether it was taken seriously or not at the time it is certainly of interest to those who like to engage in such things. It is certainly encyclopedic, especially as it does show that there is a question in some people's minds whether the country should be associated as nordic or ot and also whether being associated would mean changing the flag or if changing the flag would automatically associate.Hackerjack 14:56, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Plus, here is the page were all of the designs are listed: [1]. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 04:47, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, here are the various flag ideas proposed during independence [2]. This includes the cross flag mentioned on here. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 04:56, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Should the Flag of the President, the Naval ensign and the Naval jack really be included in this article? Seems like not relevant and I'd rather use the space for some photos about the subject.--Termer (talk) 08:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Other Flag of Country articles like eg Flag of Finland have these too, so in my opinion they should stay. But a good photo would be definitely nice. Oth (talk) 11:59, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I can't see this as a standard on WP, even though Flag of Finland has flags that are not relevant to the article, it shouldn't be a reason for keeping the Flag of the President and Navy etc included in the article. It would make sense if the article was called Flags of Estonia perhaps.--Termer (talk) 22:15, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I think it's okay to have othe other versions like the naval ensign and the Presidential flags, since they are still representative of Estonia. Most "Flag of xxxx" articles include other versions, see Flag of Germany for example. Martintg (talk) 22:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

The point was that it would be good to include some photos but the current not relevant flags really take up all the space. --Termer (talk) 22:57, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

The other flags are still relevant. When an Estonian naval ship or the President visits a country, they fly either the naval ensign or the presidential flag, which is still an official flag of Estonia. I don't think the article is so big that you need to start deleting other images to fit your photos. Martintg (talk) 23:55, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Its up to you guys.--Termer (talk) 23:57, 22 November 2007 (UTC)