Talk:Fear Factory

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Contents

[edit] Groove Metal

Why is wikipedia the first place I've heard of this genre? FF have never been "Groove" metal, theyre Industrial, and their early stuff is death metal, Burton's vocals changed from Soul of a new Machine, to Obselete. Can we kill this weird genre please? Jay794 19:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I concur. Ever since Dimebag's death it seems to get thrown about a lot. Rehevkor 20:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

So can we remove the genre? Jay794 16:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I've removed it and any references. It's existence as a legit genre is suspect at best, I had not even heard of the genre at all until Dimebag's death. Rehevkor 17:21, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Why do you two keep removing this genre. It covers at least four of their albums and the kind of thrashy stuff. I mean, if we were to remove it, then I would strongly suggest we add thrash metal. ThundermasterThundermaster's Talk 10:41, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
No thundermaster, Fear Factory aren't "groove metal" groove metal isn't even a real genre. Fear Factory are Industrial, like Static-X or Rammstein, only their ealy stuff like SOANM or Concrete are Death Metal, because of Burtons vocals, we have already discussed it so I will go ahead and remove it. Jay794 (talk) 12:40, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I thought you agreed not to get involved in disputed genres, Thundermaster? But you instead claim my edits are undiscussed (they're right above this) and add a condescending tag to my talk page? Grow up. For your sake. Rehevkor (talk) 14:42, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Jay794, groove metal is a real genre, it's a sub-genre of thrash. But if you two, don't want groove metal there, fine, we won't put it there. However, can we at least cover the thrashy stuff they have done, as something has to cover their work in this area, and you claim groove metal doesn't exsist, which it does, so we are left with gap in the genre section. ThundermasterThundermaster's Talk 09:43, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
  • www.ugo.com "Despite the setback of their shoddy first album, Fear Factory tightened its sound and as traditional death metal structures began to fade, they evolved into a popular industrial metal band while also incorporating a groove metal style. However, their sound has become so unique it seems to elude and genre, and arguments continue over the label that should be placed on them. This has also gotten them heard in the mainstream, and many say Fear Factory is a "stepping stone" for mainstream listeners to venture deeper into the underground."
  • www.drownedinsound.com "LA's Fear Factory were once named Ulceration. They originally formed in 1989, but when the new decade dawned, it probably occurred to them that Fear Factory was a much better name for a combination of thrash metal, death metal, groove metal, 'industrial metal, metal metal and probably some other metals."
  • edmontonmusic.com ""Ulceration" was not picked for any real reason other than that Burton C. Bell and/or other members thought it would "just be a cool name" for the band. They then renamed to Fear Factory in 1990. Characterized by a mix of thrash metal/'groove metal guitar riffs..."
  • www.raymondherrera.com "Fear Factory Fear Factory was formed on October 31, 1990 in Los Angeles, California by ex-guitarist Dino Cazares and drummer Raymond Herrera. Characterised by a mix of thrash metal' (though Fear Factory sound more in the vein of groove metal) guitar riffs, roaring vocals that make way for melodic singing, pulse driven drum beats, and powerful basslines..."
    Groove metal is a correct genre Kameejl (Talk) 10:22, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Jay794, this discussion has no value whatsoever. Referring to this discussion in not a good reason to delete sourced content. Two editor agreeing on the non-existence of groove metal is not a reason to disallow groove metal in the article. Sources and citations are the way to go an wikipedia, not editor opinions. Please stop reverting valuable and sourced information. Kameejl (Talk) 18:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Obviously this is only POV. Some believe they are groove metal and others don't. Like I said on the Machine Head talk page, Standing in a muddy field thrashing your head around and beatin' the shit out of everyone around you doesnt sound very "groovy". Jay794 (talk) 19:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Kameejl. Just because two editors agree on something, doesn't mean you should then remove perfectly OK content that has reliable sources. You are the one using POV. ThundermasterTRUC 15:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC) 09:08, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

At the time of the discussion it was unsourced, no one objected and it was removed. It's a higher priority to remove unsourced information (even temporarily) rather than find sources for it (What I didn't like was your uncivil attitude towards the issue.) Rehevkor (talk) 21:39, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Meshuggah reference removed

Removed the Meshuggah reference in "Categorization and Sound", since such a comparison is selective and mostly irrelevant to the subtopic. -Danteferno

[edit] Dynamo Open Air Festival?

Is this original work? What is the the Dynamo Open Air Festival? - Zoe

Hello Zoe. This is an original entry with facts gathered from around the web. cf http://www.dynamo.nl/ Birchtree

We still need at least a link to an article in the Wikipedia about the Dynamo Open Air Festival, or that sentence makes no sense in this article. -- Zoe

Agreed. Would you care to do so? Birchtree

Since I have no idea what it is, no. -- Zoe

The internet is very informative though, Zoe. You could investigate it, beginning with the link provided, if you like. Birchtree

I'm impressed, Birchtree! Never heard of the band, but it looks like a good article... However, I removed the phrase "with his mouth", considering it redundant. ;) And I've removed some of your HTML markup. Have a look at the code as it is now, and witness the power of wiki markup! :) Zoe - I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the sentence mentioning the Dynamo Open Air Festival not making sense. Presumably it's a music festival that took place in the open air. Surely that's enough to get some idea of what's being discussed...? -- Oliver P. 11:38 Mar 3, 2003 (UTC)

Damn. I quite enjoyed the 'with his mouth' bit, but fair do's. ;) Ta for rediting. ...You're quite right about Zoe's comment btw; it is a touch over-zealous to claim that merely because there is no entry for the festival the entire sentence doesn't make sense! A very strange claim. What's more, I felt the opening question of 'Is this original work?' was a touch patronizing and rude.

Still, I'll change the festival to a wiki link and leave it at that. Perhaps someone will wish to add the entry.

Birchtree.

No, no, Birchtree. It's just that we're not used to newbies turning up and suddenly writing brilliant prose round here. :) It is entirely understandable for people to be suspicious when it happens, and so I defend Zoe's opening question above. In fact, if someone suspects your writing of having been written by a professional journalist, you should take it as a compliment! Copyright infringements could harm the Wikipedia project, so it is essential for at least some of us to remain vigilant in this area. Zoe is a respected contributor around here, and so I think we should be more careful in future not to wind her up. -- Oliver P. 03:37 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Point taken, though there are simple ways and means of enquring as to the legitimacy of an article that don't risk getting the author's back up. Being so blunt is hardly any way to go on, 'respected contributor' or not. Birchtree 04:56 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Oliver, Dynamo Open Air Festival has no definition in the Wikipedia and no link to an outside source. There is no explanation as to why this is important or even worth mentioning. And I have no intention of writing an article about it. -- Zoe

Just to clarify, it was Birchtree, not me, who suggested that you might want to write an article on the festival.
The Wikipedia is still a young project, and there is still a lot that hasn't been covered; we can't do it all at once. Not everything that is mentioned in passing in an article can be expected to have an article of its own just yet. One of the great things about the Wikipedia is the way in which it continually invites growth. When someone thinks that something may require an article of its own, they can put in a link. If it comes up red, that is an invitation to add new content, which I think is a good thing. The responsibility of writing that new content does not rest solely with the person who originally mentions the concept, since this is a collaborative project. It may be expected that the person who first mentions something may have something more to say on the subject, but to expect them to write a whole article on something that is only mentioned in passing in one of their articles is a bit much. People have other things to do. I'm sure you can see that mentioning music festivals is an entirely natural thing to do in an article about a band, so I'm still a little baffled about why you are querying it. I think the sentence in question is illuminating, in that it suggests that the band's dedication to the production of new music outweighed their desire for public appearance. To better understand the sentence, is there anything that you need to know about the festival, other than the fact that it is an open-air music festival? If you have a specific query about the nature of the festival whose answer would help you to understand the sentence better, please ask it, and maybe someone will be able to find the answer. So far, all I can make out from your comments is that you personally haven't heard of the festival in question. I understand that not knowing things can sometimes be irritating, but there is much missing content from the Wikipedia, and I think that's inevitable at this stage. -- Oliver P. 03:37 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Hello to you. I've taken time out of a busy schedule to write up the D.O.A. festival. I hope this resolves the apparent rising tension here. :) --Birchtree

Phew! Well done. Maybe my time would have been better spent if I'd done the same, rather than composing that long-winded message above! -- Oliver P. 04:19 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

Sometimes it's just better to rise above it, Oliver. I entirely agree with your point though, and considered making the same. --Birchtree

[edit] Fear is the Mindkiller, single or EP?

Fear is the Mindkiller single? Sure someone isn't just getting confused with the EP? There's so much song as "Fear is the Mindkiller".. --Lx

[edit] What is 'cyber-fast production'?

What, exactly, is 'cyber-fast production'? -CamTarn

There is no such thing as cyber-fast production and that theory is a figment of the writer's imagination.
The "Cyber" in "Cyber-Metal" comes from the futuristic themes and industrial elements present in their music, although cyber-metal is not really recognised as a genre; industrial metal is the accepted norm (factually speaking only; cyber-metal may actually be a good way to describe FF's mid-period sound). Someone needs to rewrite a lot of that section. If no one else does, I might later.
Inflammator 14:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discography

In line with other music pages, I'm planning on moving the discography to another page, if that's OK. Same format and content, just a page of its own linked by a "See also". I'll do it when I get a chance over the next few days. This saves repetition and possible edit errors on information spread over several pages - many bands have individual member pages containing the discography repeated. IainP (talk) 16:32, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Who ever did the setup for Discography on this page, awesome, but don't like main Picture, change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.63.150 (talk) 01:35, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Liquid 8

There are signed to Calvin Records.

~ Luke 'Self Biased Resistor' May.

[edit] Ulceration

Every reference I've ever read has cited Halloween 1990 as the exact day Fear Factory formed. In fact when the band was recording Digimortal, they celebrated their 10th anniversary on Halloween night with an in-studio party. It seems more likely that Ulceration is a band Ray and Dino were in before Fear Factory, and that FF proper began when Burt and Andrew joined. (James Hetfield was in a band called Phantom Lord in 1980, but you can't really say that Metallica formed in 1980 and were at first known as Phantom Lord.)

Anyone have any other sources on this? Wangoed 13:59, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Please restore what my filtered computer deletes

Please restore the link my filtered computer truncates. Thank you and sorry for the inconvenience, Randroide 16:58, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Death Metal?

Er, yeah, so how is FF Death metal...

Listen to Concrete and Soul of a New Machine. They started as a death metal band but changed into groove metal on Demanufacture. Markendust

Um, no thats just Heavy Metal, Death Metal is Cannibal Corpse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.63.150 (talk) 01:30, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

If you can provide a legitimate source that states that the early Fear Factory albums aren't death metal, feel free to post it here. Until then, please keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought. Inflammator 13:01, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

a certain refrence to metal as the most bitter genre of music and a mention of how the drummer is able to duplicate the sound on the cd in real live is a testament to his technique seems a little POV to me

[edit] archetype

what the hell happened to the archetype article? its a fear factory album and there for should have an article

It does have an article. --70.92.64.125 07:21, 30 December 2006 (UTC) yeah because i redid it. some one delete it...

[edit] Thrash metal

I am removing Thrash Metal from the list of genres because Fear Factory only has elements of thrash metal in their sound and they are not a bona fide thrash band in any sense. The thrash elements that their music contains are fully covered by the groove metal tag; hence there is no need for the potentially misleading thrash tag as well. Inflammator 09:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

So it would also not be acceptable to call them Nu metal, as they seem to have some trappings of Nu but it is not their stock & trade?

[edit] Mischief Invasion?

Why is there no mention of the Mischief Invasion soundtrack disc?

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Concrete fearfactory.jpg

Image:Concrete fearfactory.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 21:50, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Over 2000 shows since 2001?

So let's give them 6 years which equals 2190 days (or so). This means that they would be performing shows almost every night for 6 years straight? I don't think that is a very accurate line and it has no references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Violent.j.11 (talk • contribs) 05:24, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

They have toured quite a bit, but that figure does seem a little too much. I've removed it pending any sort of verification. Inflammator 12:44, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

What 6 years? since 2001 They've been touring for 9 years. Raymond Herra has said that in the DVD Digital Connectivity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.63.150 (talk) 01:33, 11 October 2007

Do you mean that they toured during the 9 years prior to 2001? That's more than likely, but also rather obvious and not worth mentioning specifically as almost every working band tours while they are active and releasing new material. Inflammator 12:45, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes prior 2001 but actually Im not sure if it's 9 years but at least in between 9-12 but this is Wikipedia and people don't know this stuff so that's why that info is up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.230.63.150 (talk) 01:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nu metal

Don't you think the band should be classed as nu metal. Compare them to bandslike Spineshank. They are under that style. Futhermore, numetal is alternative metal and that is listed. 86.155.162.127 (talk) 14:57, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Fear Factory are in no way "nu metal". Any claims as such are ridiculous. Rehevkor (talk) 15:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
And why? That is basically calling alternative metal ridiculous. And anyway, do you have anything to prove your point? No. So tell me, why is it ridiculous? Thundermaster367 (talk) 09:01, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Because I've listened to their music? The only connection Fear Factory has with nu metal was that Obsolete was released during the hight of the nu metal era. Obsolete is quite clearly an industrial metal album. It's not my job to prove they're not nu metal as I'm not trying to add any unsourced information to the article, it's your job to prove they are. Can you prove they're nu metal? From what I can see adding disputed genres to articles is a habit you have, perhaps you should rethink your priorities? Rehevkor (talk) 13:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
That's true actually. The album did come at the time of the nu metal breakthrough but I can find elements of nu metal in there. Many I'm finding elements of alt. metal. OK, I'll stop with the disputed genre debates. ''I Am The Master Of All Thunder'' (talk) 09:04, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
There are a lot of nu metal elements in Fear Factory's music. For example, there's a turntable in Edgecrusher and Bell raps on Digimortal. I know "nu metal" is considered a derogatory term, but sometimes things are what they are. They may not have those nu metal elements now, but Obselete and Digimortal are definitely laced with it. The KZA (talk) 07:24, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thrash metal

I think we should add thrash metal as they clearly have some quite thrashy songs and since the apparently explained removal of groove metal nothing covers it. ThundermasterThundermaster's Talk 08:56, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't consider it a primary genre, there may be elements, but not enough to warrant adding it to the genre category, not by a long shot. Also, see here as to why it was removed the first time around. Rehevkor (talk) 22:32, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Fundamentally, we need a reliable citation. --Yamla (talk) 23:54, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I've posted some sources here. Kameejl (Talk) 12:35, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Rehevkor, you know that it was only removed becuase groove metal covered it. ThundermasterTRUC 15:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC) 09:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dino's page

Dino was the fat guitarist. Read it in the revision history. Now removed. Master of Metal (Have a chat!) 13:00, 12 May 2008 (UTC)