Talk:Excel Saga

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  • (Japanese) interview with seiyuu about ep 26
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[edit] List of references?

One possible area that (as far as I can tell) doesn't seem to be covered anywhere is a list of references that are made in the Excel Saga anime series. What prompted this was I was just watching the first disk (ep 1-5) after having watched Space Battleship Yamato seasons one and two. And I noticed that the Puchuu's ship has a bow that is very simmilar to that of the Yamato as well as the 3rd bridge underneath. That and the ending of the dream sequence where Excel apears to be hit by the White Comet from the second season of Yamato. (The Space Battleship Yamato has a cultural influences page that points out that one of the later episodes of Excel Saga is parodying Space Battleship Yamato but doesn't mention episode two of Excel Saga). Figured I'd share the idea and see if anyone else had noticed the similarities or if it was just because I had just finished watching yamato and was thusly biased towards it.Dr Denim 18:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, episode 21 is pretty blatant in referencing Yamato in both its plot and designs, whereas the the referencing in episode 2 seems to me mostly cosmetic. Anyway, I'm not sure I favor such an approach: Beyond the technical concerns of notability and original-research (which are superable due to the ADV vid-notes in the original DVD release and the Viz "Oubliette," I'm not sure that it's worthwhile: there's a lot that we could list, but how much value is there to be had from such a list?--Monocrat 16:09, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RhynCheck Clear

This article has been RhynChecked for Deadlinks and found to be clear! :D Rhynri 02:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Insanity

The International versions section violates very gravely the policy of the WP:MOS-AM in that non-English/non-Japanese versions are not allowed to be spoken of in the English Wikipedia. I want badly to destroy that information, but because it's so big, I want to consult with all of you as you can decide what to do in this case.--Twicemost (talk) 02:07, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The issue about non-English/non-Japanese info is being discussed here. Kazu-kun (talk) 03:45, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
The section can hold its place. The only one who was wrong was me. --Twicemost (talk) 23:43, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article Issues

This article really needs a work over to bring it inline with the MOS and with WP:LEAD. It was promoted to FA almost 2 years ago, but if it were back up for FA, it would fail miserably. Anyone willing to tackle the needed MOS and lead fixes? Collectonian (talk) 07:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I missed this comment, sorry. How would the article fail? It has accreted a few things over the past two years that need some work, but the lede at least seems fine to me. Some concrete examples would be useful. :)--Monocrat (talk) 16:55, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
It needs to be brought in line with the anime and manga MoS, which it completely fails to meet at this point. It has excessive non-free images. It has far too many unreferenced statements, and uses several non-reliable sources - big FA no-no. I actually meant to send this to FAR at the end of April for delisting at the end of April as there was no response. If you plan to attempt to fix it, I'll hold of a little longer. I was going to attempt to at least bring it inline with the MoS, but the article is such a mess I can't easily bring it inline. It needs a lot of work. Collectonian (talk) 16:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
I apologize again for the lack of a response; the post completely skipped my attention. :-) The "non-reliable sources" matter was addressed in FAC—see the nomination and the relevant precedent.
  • I think I was careful to cite putatively contestable statements, but if there's something you'd like cited, please note it as such.
  • MOS violation is a pretty broad category: is it style of the prose, the structure of the article, or something else? I myself substantially rewrote the article-structure part of MOS-AM, so I don't think that's a problem. (The melding of plot and character sections is unusual, but I've always detested discrete character lists/sections, and the combination of the two allowed me to economize not just on prose but unreferenced statements.)
  • I can see how the images might be problematic. I personally think that the images are tied closely enough to the text that they're safe, but I could be wrong. You're welcome to remove the offenders. Be bold!
Standards change, and I accept that. Perhaps FAR would be useful.--Monocrat (talk) 17:52, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
The FAC criteria regarding referencing are stricter now, from what I've heard in other FARs on 06 FAs. It does not comply with the current MOS-AM at all, structurally and in several places prose wise. Its missing a lot of the basic information about the series, while having a wealth (maybe even an excess) of production info (LOL, never thought I'd say that about a series). I've also posted to the project for additional help, and my post there might say things better. Collectonian (talk) 18:11, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What should be the name of the article?

Excel Saga or Heppoko jikken animation Excel Saga? (thats how it appears in iMDB) Jim88Argentina (talk) 19:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

"Excel Saga" is the recognized English trade name for both the manga and the anime, which is what should be used according to the Manual of Style. Also, "Heppoko jikken animation" (Quack Experimental Animation) is specific to the anime, so shouldn't be used as the title of an article which also deals with the manga. Omnisentry (talk) 02:10, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I get it--Jim88Argentina (talk) 03:01, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Which image are you concerned with? There's one for characters, one to show the extreme violence in the last episode, and a manga cover. Of these the only one I think it may be out of place is the cover, because there's already a manga cover in the lead. The other ones have a clear purpose to be in the article. So I'll ask you again, which image are you concerned with?

In any case, a mass removal without a clear rationale it's nothing more than vandalism. Not all the images are there for the same reason, so you should be specific about your concerns. Saying "violates WP:NONFREE" without explaining how means nothing, and doesn't help at all. Kazu-kun (talk) 18:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Um, removing images that violates WP:NONFREE is not vandalism, its enforcing policy. I'll let the removing editor explained why he removed them. From my own point of view (and my reason for tagging), the first image is purely decorative and adds nothing to the article. The second image is a manga cover. There is already one in the infobox, so that's redundant. The final image, of the violate, actually seems fine, as it is actually discussed in the section. I'm not sure the image of Watanabe is necessary, but its free so that's another discussion. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 18:59, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Speaking of the manga cover, I think a scan of volume 1 would be preferable to volume 13 (the current choice seems a bit arbitrary to me). —Dinoguy1000 19:00, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Preferably volume 1 of the original Japanese, unless Viz made a major change to the cover image. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 19:05, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
The manga cover is redundant, yes, but the first image is a character group image, which is perfectly fine and is not at odds with the guidelines. Although a better one could be added; one from the manga and depicting more characters. I don't know, but there's no violation there. Kazu-kun (talk) 19:10, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
The main characters are shown in the main image, except from Illpalazzo (or however its written^^). Other characters can be shown in their respective character list.--Tintor2 (talk) 19:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I made the choice of Volume 13 over Volume 1 due to my personal aesthetics: of all the covers, I felt it's the best-drawn one with Excel and Hyatt prominently displayed. Volume 1 is okay, just kind of dull for my tastes. I hadn't seen any policy that preferred first-volume covers. If one retains the shot of the Across-characters, I'd prefer that the Daitenzin be left in to have some representation of their characters and the depiction of the sentai genre. I suppose the Volume 9 cover can be removed without loss. I'd like to see the Menchi image restored: it's drawn from the closing sequence, which, with Menchi's place in it, are, I believe, discussed in the text. The Daitenzin and Menchi images do I think aid in describing major components of the franchise and in describing its humor.--Monocrat (talk) 23:06, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Our MoS does give heavy preference to either volume 1 or the last volume, not just choosing the one you like best. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 19:38, June 9, 2008 (UTC)
Citation to the relevant MoS? I can't find it after a cursory look through WP:MOS, WP:MOS-AM, WP:IBX or the animanga infobox. But I stress that it was a cursory look. Even with a proper citation to guidelines, I somehow doubt that using vol. 13 instead of vol. 1 is worth all this fuss--after all, guidelines are not hard and fast rules. Do you have any response to my other points?--Monocrat (talk) 03:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, see Template talk:Infobox animanga#Infobox image. It was discussed, but not put in the MoS itself. As for why 1 or the last over 13, its because its a more neutral way of selecting the image. First volume is first volume. Editors picking their favorite rather than a standard image is injecting too much personal preference into the article.-- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 03:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
No problem. :) Thanks for the link. I can understand your stance on the cover, and, on a higher level of abstraction, I agree with it. But I read the discussion as giving preference to images that identify and fairly represent the franchise, or at least major components of it. I think vol. 13 fits the bill. Since the article has to be written with a slight tilt towards the original medium, the choice of infobox image fell to the manga. So, the specific choice of vol. 13 is consistent with major guidelines and follows the spirit of the discussion you pointed out.--Monocrat (talk) 03:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Again, images about certain characters can be added in their respective lists.--Tintor2 (talk) 16:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
We're not talking about just any characters here. Excel Saga is about Excel, and to a lesser extent Hyatt and (later) Elgala. The number of panels in the manga and frames in the anime with those three characters, dwarfs all other characters' combined. The cited discussion simply does not support a requirement that the chosen image be of the first volume. Farix's comments in that thread nicely dovetail with my own. Also, I plan to restore the image of Menchi if there are no objections.--Monocrat (talk) 00:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)