Talk:Dan Snow

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[edit] Double first

"Double first class degree"? I've come across various references to "Oxford Double Firsts" but most of these are spurious since (I think) the only subject where you can get one of these is Classics ("Mods and Greats"). Is that what Dan Snow read?

Most undergraduates sit two sets of exams at Oxford: the first ones are usually at or towards the end of the first year and are called Prelims (short for Preliminaries) or Mods (short for Honour Moderations), depending on the subject. The main difference is that Prelims are unclassified (i.e. they're pass or fail) whereas Mods are classified (first, II:i, II:ii, third, pass, fail). The other exams are called Schools (short for Final Honour Schools, but usually known as Finals); these are taken at the end of one's final year and it is on the basis of these (classified) exams that the final degree (first, II:i, etc.) is awarded.

Double firsts (at Oxford, at least) refer to one of two things: either taking a first in Mods and then a first in Finals; or taking a first class degree in finals in each of two subjects in a combined honours course (e.g. reading Maths and Philosophy and then taking a first in Maths finals and a first in Philosophy finals). The latter seems to be more prevalent at Oxford, not least because many undergraduates sit Prelims, not Mods, and therefore aren't eligible to take a double first.

Dan Snow read History at Balliol; he took a first in Mods and a first in Schools. He can therefore legitimately be said to have taken a double first in History.

Hope this helps. ^talkGiler 09:32, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in History you do prelims, not mods. As you say, prelims are not classified. So you can't get a first in prelims. and therefore you can't get a double first in History. Millbanks 08:06, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I've just checked, and you're correct that in History you now take Prelims, not Mods. However, this appears to have been the case only since 2003 or thereabouts. The subject of the article therefore sat Honour Mods, not Prelims and the double first comment stands. But you're quite right that appears to be no longer possible to take a double first in History. ^talkGiler 09:21, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Certainly in the 60s you did Prelims, not Mods in History. Are you telling me that they changed to Honour Mods and then back to Prelims in 2003? Millbanks 22:21, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Indeed I am. The change to Honour Mods happened "in the 1980s" (see http://www.history.ox.ac.uk/alumni/oxhistorian/issue_1/03_studying_modhist.htm). I'm not sure when the change back happened—it was still Mods when I left in 2000 but it's now Prelims (see http://www.history.ox.ac.uk/currentunder/index.htm). Hope that helps. ^talkGiler 08:58, 10 July 2007 (UTC)