Talk:Bus

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[edit] Spelling

"Busses" is sometimes used

Incorrectly, I think. Must check Fowler. What do US guides say? Then again, We're Not A Dictionary. We could just delete that bit entirely -- Tarquin 11:00, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I can see no excuse for "busses" but it scores 430,000 google hits (i.e. mostly this type of bus) so obviously a lot of people use it. Shantavira 18:19, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I found an American Merriam-Webster dictionary that recommends it as an alternative spelling, mostly to prevent people from pronouncing it as SAMPA bjuz".Ez.-FZ 13:44, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

--- Illustration: there are several lithographs by Honore Daumier that are in the public domain that would help make points now in "History" subsection. Wetman 21:31, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

Why this obsession with how it is spelt in the US (wherever that is!). How it is spelt in the majority of the big wide world is more important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.138.228.61 (talk • contribs)

[edit] buses are the safest

I read an interesting newspaper article about buses recently:

"the [US] National Transportation Safety Board decided ... not to recommend seat belts in school buses. ...
The board also recommended that buses be equipped with data recorders starting Jan. 1, 2003. ...
School bus design is closely regulated ... Motor coaches -- the type of bus used by Greyhound -- have no occupant protection standards.
Regardless, school buses and motor coaches are considered the safest forms of transportation on the road. On average, nine people are killed each year in school buses, and four die in motor coaches. Roughly 42 000 are killed annually in car and truck accidents."
-- Glen Johnson, Associated Press, 1999 Sept. 22

EditHint: Mention some of these facts in the article.

--DavidCary 17:41, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)


I have no clue how to fix this, but all the "edit" buttons in the article are in one line, like {edit} {edit} {edit} and looks kinda bad. -- Josh

[edit] satellite bus?

If something were written about Satellite Bus(s)es, should it have its own entry, or go in Electrical bus (or even Computer bus )? -FZ 13:51, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] reversion of changes by 213.51.209.230

I've reverted the changes by 213.51.209.230, which describe an articulated bus thus:

Articulated buses consist of a standard length bus fitted with a tow hitch and a trailer. The trailer part is connected to the front part with a rubber accordion section.

With the exception of the accordian bit, this sounds more like a description of a bus+trailer combination, as widely used in Germany in the 1950s and, I believe, still used in some eastern european countries. It may be that some apparantly articulated buses are configured this way, but it certainly isn't the normal form. The most common form of modern articulated bus (eg. the MercedesBenz Citaros used in London) actually has the engine in the rear section, which can hardly therefore be described as a trailer. And obviously such a configuration requires something other than a tow-hitch. -- Chris j wood 23:41, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

This sounds like speculation. Sources? (The assumptions that homelessness is caused by urban housing shortages, that such shortages exist, and that many homeless people ride buses all need substantiation.)

[edit] Homelessness and buses in the U.S.

Because of a variety of factors, housing shortages have become a chronic problem in most large American cities since the 1970s. The result has been an epidemic of homelessness. With no place to go, the homeless often end up riding around aimlessly on public buses, which offer advantages like temperature control, security, and comfort.

Unfortunately, the presence of homeless people strongly reduces the attractiveness of bus transit to other riders, due to factors like odor, hygiene, panhandling, crowding, etc.

I don't see why that passage should have been taken out. Have you ever actually commuted regularly on a typical big city bus? I use buses four days of the week and I've seen everything, including homeless people urinating in the bus.

--Coolcaesar 08:26, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It looks like the passage has some relevance, but its needs quite a bit of POV cleanup. First off, I can see no reason to limit discussion to the U.S. or to homeless passengers. The real issue is that people don't like sharing space with strangers - in particular strangers who are different from themselves. Then it can be seen as a more general issue contrasting public transport vs private transport such as the car. In fact, come to think of it, the whole issue is probably much better addressed on the public transport page where there is already some comment. -- Solipsist 11:18, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Sure; I've seen plenty of bizarre things on public transport, but I'm hesitent to extrapolate a trend from any of them. I agree with Solipsist (oh, the irony) that the treatment in public transport is better. jdb ❋ 21:14, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Fine. I concede that public transport is probably the best point to address the issue in detail (and it should addressed in detail). I'll have to think about it and do a little research before I go and elaborate on it in that article, though. As written, public transport only addresses the issue of homeless people sleeping on public transport rather than the odor, hygiene, public health, or security issues, which I would argue are major disincentives for people to ride public transit---have you had the pleasure of sitting next to a fragrant homeless person lately? I also concede that Solipsist is probably right to generalize the issue to the broader problem of how many people don't like sharing personal space with strangers.

--Coolcaesar 09:11, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] DD in US?

However, several experimental uses of double decker buses have not proved them to be practical in U.S. operations other than for sightseeing groups.

I'm curious as to why DD buses haven't caught on in the U.S. except as sightseeing buses -- esp. on heavily-trafficked routes. Can anyone expand upon this? 140.247.60.206 05:35, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but my best guess is that most American cities tend to have much longer and wider streets than in Europe, so if a bus line becomes really popular, then the local transit agency will simply add more buses or switch to extra-long articulated buses.

Also, Americans simply don't ride buses as much as in other countries because we have cheap gas (we don't tax it as much) and most of our cities are not laid out well for efficient bus use.

As for inner-city neighborhoods where buses are more popular, a major problem is that many such cities, like Los Angeles, are nearly bankrupt and cannot afford to put their electrical and phone wires underground. The result is that their skies are cluttered with old lines which are just barely high enough for trucks and ordinary buses to pass underneath. A double-decker bus plowing through those lines would create an enormous mess and cause massive service outages.

Finally, I think another reason is that our courts are very plaintiff-friendly. Our public transit agencies get sued every day by people who are run over by bus drivers, people who trip and fall on the bus, people who trip and fall getting on or off the bus, people who are robbed on the bus, people who are arrested by the police because they refuse to pay the bus driver, etc. Adding double-decker buses would result in having to defend against lawsuits from people who fell down the stairs because the driver braked suddenly. However, sightseeing companies are probably able to use such buses because they are not public agencies, have more control over who can board, and can simply jack up prices to cover the cost of their liability insurance. --Coolcaesar 17:52, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Interesting -- thanks. jdb ❋ (talk) 16:13, 17 July 2005 (UTC)


As a bus operator, I would say: the height of the signs and such is the main cause. A regular single-decker coach is about 11 ft and 6 inches tall. Most bridges and overpasses are right about 13 feet and some inches. That leaves practically NO ROOM for a second deck.

````

Davis, California makes extensive use of double-deckers. Twinxor t 02:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The bus types aren't quite right

There should be categorization by size, by use, and by propulsion/energy type

Buses are generally diesel, but there are CNG and electric buses available. Hybrid diesel/electric buses may be avialable soon.


Bus sizes can vary from minibus (about 14 to 20 people) to mid-sized bus (26-35) to maxi-bus (up to 42-seats) baby coach (32-40) to coach (42-49) to XL coach (55 to 61) passengers. Double-deckers and/or articulated buses are counted in a different category.

microbus -- basically a converted van with extra high-ceilings, there offer walk-in high-back chair seating.

minibus -- generally converted from heavy-duty van or truck platforms, they offer greater carrying capacity than full-size vans at the cost of wider width. They can be ordered in a variety of seating configurations, but usually seat about 18-24 plus some luggage space. Available with perimeter seating (all seats with back against the walls) or forward-facing seating (normal).

mid-sized bus -- built on mid-sized truck platforms, these buses offer greater carrying capacity (often up to 35-seats and some luggage space). They could be front or rear-engined.

maxi-bus -- built on large truck platforms, these buses offer up to 42 seats without the investment of a full-sized coach. Sometimes these are known as mid-sized buses. Usually front-engined.

baby-coach -- built on shortened version of a standard coach, these have only 2 axles instead of the three on a standard coach, with reduced seating capacity, but retains the underneath luggage space. Usually rear-engined to reduce cabin noise.

coach -- standard coach in the US is 40 foot long and seats 42-50 people, with underneath luggage space, and has three axles: front, drive, and tag. Usually rear-engined to reduce cabin noise.

XL coach -- 45 foot version of standard coach, these represent the longest length coach allowed on highways without special permits. The extra length allows installation of extra seats, resulting in up to 62 seats. Not permitted on all roads. Check your state highway restrictions. Usually rear-engined to reduce cabin noise.


Buses are generally divided into three use types: tour/intercity bus, transit bus, and school bus.

Tour/intercity buses have luggage space placed under the main cabin. They can achieve high speeds and are more comfortable on the highways with air-suspensions over long distances.

Transit buses are designed for intracity use with lots of starts and stops. Their top speed is lower, and latest models have lower floors and multiple entry-ways, and NO luggage space. They often have a combination of perimeter and forward-facing seating to maximize the amount of standing space available.

School bus, in the US, can sit up to 70+ people with narrow bench seating, and has required set of rear escape doors and such.

the los angeles bus image is not showing up. 169.244.143.115 16:15, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] US bias

This article is extremely biased towards the US - in fact, less than a passing mention is made of buses in other countries through the whole article. --Stevefarrell 13:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Then by all means, be bold and make it less so! SchuminWeb (Talk) 22:47, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
I couldn't agree more. In the U.S., the mentality is "I need my personal car, you should ride a bus". Why not tell us more about buses elsewhere? Vaoverland 22:51, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article improvements

I added some info about various types of bus service such as local, intercity/interstate, shuttle, school, tour and charter. The wording of my additions could possibly use some improvements but i feel it's a decent start at least. I do think their should be a separate section on the specific types bus vehicles such as transit, coach, shuttle, mini-busses, double-decker, etc.. Also we should provide more info on the types of fuels/power sources currently used in busses including diesel /bio-diesel, electric, bio-fuels (ethanol, etc), hydrogen, etc. Also the types of amenities available fancier coach style busses (such as those used by touring musicians). These include lavatories, satellite TV, sleeping facilities, and other RV-like amenities. --Cab88 11:52, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Buses

Why is it "buses" rather than "busses"? "buses" should rhyme with "abuses". 64.192.106.146 16:45, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

In which language? 68.122.41.103 23:58, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

And "cough" should rhyme with "through"?

Since "bus" is abbreviated from the Latin "omnibus", surely the plural should be "bi", abbreviated from the Latin "omnibi"...58.136.112.9 03:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Nice (presumable ironic) point but not really correct since "omnibus" is not a Latin nominative singular noun like "populus" (where plural is indeed populi) but rather ablative case (formed by appending -ibus). 203.255.186.134 03:57, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Motor coach

Seems to me that the entry at Coach (vehicle) should be merged into this article, or at the very least the two articles should clearly reference one another.--Lordkinbote 19:56, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lead photo

The 1895 bus is cool historically, but maybe the article would be better served by a more contemporary photo, which is more representative of bus service today. Twinxor t 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. I've implemented it. I left the historic bus photo on the page, but moved it down a little. SchuminWeb (Talk) 01:49, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Leave the gallery!

Someone deleted the gallery so i put it back. It's nice and could help to diminish that non-international point of view feeling of the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.98.17.25 (talk • contribs) .

Correct. I took it out the first time, and have removed it again. The reason I took it out is because the gallery is somewhat unsightly, and because the whole thing is now duplicated on Commons and linked on the article. SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:53, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Types of buses

I have moved the section below from the article page to here because it largely overlaps with 'Types of bus service' and is completely unsourced. -- Donald Albury 12:18, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

== Types of Buses ==
Buses comes in many shapes and sizes, each optimized for its own specific niche. They are usually diesel-powered, though more recently fuel cell, CNG, and hybrid power sources are becoming available.
In general, there are three types of buses: transit buses, school buses, and touring coaches.
Transit buses are designed for frequent stops, low overall speed, urban operation, and few amenities. Most city transit buses are of the transit type. Transit buses tend to have low floors, no luggage space, lots of standing room, and two or more doors, often double-width doors.
Transit buses can be single deck or double deck, anywhere from a mini shuttle of 10 people (basically a large van) all the way to 120-seat double-deckers or 140-seat articulated "trailer" coaches.
School buses are also designed for frequent stops, low overall speed, and urban operation. It has virtually NO amenities, except those mandated by law, such as rear escape door. The seats are also tighter and only central corridor is available, no standing. As a result, school buses often seat 60-80 children in a 40-ft long coach.
School buses can vary from small 10-passenger wheel-chair lift minibuses all the way to 40-ft long school buses capable of fitting in 70+ children.
Touring coaches, finally, are designed for long distance runs with luxury. They are designed for highway cruising and often come with reclining seats, footrests, video systems, PA systems, private AC outlet, and so on, as well as a lot of luggage space under the main cabin. US DOT limits maximum length of a single vehicle to 45 ft long, and 102 inches wide, and that is the dimension of most touring coaches.
Touring coaches in US vary from 12-pax minicoaches to 24-seater minibuses to mid-size buses (28-42 pax) to 30-ft long baby coaches, 40-ft long coaches, and 45-ft long maxi-coaches.
I respectfully disagree. The "types of service" section is more important, but it properly says little about types of hardware. The bus type section should be restored, perhaps pruned to a bullet list, with a link for each physical type that has its own article, and a short definition for any type that does not. -- Jim.henderson 18:25, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
That was probably me who did the original change, and looks like I did it *again*. :-) While I agree that "types of service" is important, there is NO discussion at all on the types of hardware, as Jim pointed out. We'll probably have to separate into two sections, "Bus Service Markets" and "Bus Size Subtypes". --Kschang77 07:32, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
I actually left the SAME comments WAY up on the top under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bus#The_bus_types_aren.27t_quite_right -- Kschang77 07:41, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Mini and midi are good additions, though their paragraphs are perhaps a bit long and their details might profitably be relegated to linked articles. Some of the motor coach additions definitely ought to be in the linked article instead. And "dualies" are used without being defined. I do not propose to define them here, but in that case this isn't where to use them, either. When a subject is big, then one article shouldn't try to cover it all. Buses are not as big as Medicine or India, but their article should only attempt to present and outline the topic, with links to the specifics. Balance and selectiveness are major parts of an editor's job. Completeness is not what it's about.
Jim.henderson 14:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation Re 1824 Bus in Salford

Sorry not sure how to add these in as references but here are the citations requested: http://www.petergould.co.uk/local_transport_history/fleetlists/manchester1.htm http://www.gmts.co.uk/history/history.html http://www.manchester.gov.uk/people/special/student06/index.htm http://www.scripophily.net/macaco18.html Also in this document: GREATER MANCHESTER TRANSPORT SOCIETY Museum of Transport, Manchester : service since 1824. GMTS / TPC, 1990 ISBN 0 86317 153 2


I hope that satisfies the questioner. Best wishes, Mark —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mapmark (talk • contribs) 13:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

I added the link to gmts.co.uk accordingly. Hassocks5489 13:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Hassocks5489 - I've recently learnt about the "ref" button too so next time I should be able to do it meself!  :-)

[edit] Far too many pictures of articulated buses

So i'm taking it upon myself to upload and add a picture of a single deck midibus. Backifran

We only have two photos of artics on there, so I don't know if that's "far too many", but I do think your photo idea is a good, solid one. SchuminWeb (Talk) 14:50, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, there was three before.. the one on the top right, the one described "bendybus" and a poor quality photo of several in a line in a US city.

Two bendys are perhaps slightly too many; one double decker is exactly right and so is one shot of several parked intercity coaches. One midi is also the right number. I see no exterior of the most common modern "standard" size bus, however, like the M1 I rode two hours ago up Madison Avenue in New York. Jim.henderson 18:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Like that image?, I wouldn't insert that one but that bus seats 49 plus 12 or so standing.. it's a Leyland Lynx. Although a more modern one would perhaps be appropriate, as I went on that very bus two days ago and the driver claimed it was a 'sack of shit'. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Backifran (talk • contribs) 15:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC).
Nothing wrong with using a good, informative picture of a bad bus. Much better than a bad, messy picture of a good bus. Jim.henderson 21:03, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I put the picture of the leyland lynx up, but thought after i'd done so that this picture of a Volvo B10M would have been better -
::

[edit] modern articulated bus

i think its a bad idea to be able to edit a page like this but it certainly isn't the normal form. The most common form of modern articulated bus (eg. the MercedesBenz Citaros used in London) actually has the engine in the rear section, which can hardly therefore be described as a trailer. And obviously such a configuration requires something other than a tow-hitch. -- Chris j wood 23:41, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] My brother told me to ask you guys on here. Tomorrow Im starting a book report and I MUST know something about transportation involving buses.

If you help me, I'll tell you my grade and help you if you need it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnnnathan (talk • contribs) 23:21, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] please add useful link (Ozebus.com.au)

Ok, so I can't add this useful link because it's against the conflict of interest provisions. However I respectfully request that it be considered to add to this page, as it is the main portal to the Australian Bus Industry: www.ozebus.com.au
The site contains useful content, resources, ppt presentations, links, forums, and academic papers.
For more info, please contact admin@bic.asn.au
Ozebus (talk) 01:28, 6 February 2008 (UTC)Ozebus

Not a chance... SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:30, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Ozebus. I've added a follow-up about how to usefully add content to Wikipedia (rather than just website links) at the User_talk:Ozebus#Adding content page. Hope it's useful! —Sladen (talk) 23:56, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] History correction

In the book _Buses, Trolleys and Trams_, by Charles Dunbar (reference: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=621345954), the date given for Stanislas Baudry's activities in Nantes was 1823, not 1826. Could someone please find an alternate citation (preferably not from the 1911 Britannica) for the latter date? Dmacgr 22 (talk) 04:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)