User talk:Bart Versieck/Archive 2

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

List of people with the longest marriages

Slow down! There's nothing wrong with adding so much, but wait until you've accumulated it, then add it. If you really want to renovate an article, start it on a subpage of your user account, then transfer it to the main article once it's complete. — The Man in Question (gesprec) · (forðung) 21:32, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

It's finished now though. Extremely sexy (talk) 21:54, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

But you reverted several edits of mine, including additions, corrections, link fixes, surnames, ... in the process as well. Extremely sexy (talk) 22:08, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Why won't you add your corrections again, since now you can, Questioning Man? Extremely sexy (talk) 14:37, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

"External links" v. "references"

Hi Bart! I did some reading to get to the bottom of whether to use "External links" or "References" for links like those found on the Lucy Hannah page, and this is what I came up with -- the style guideline on "external links" says in part:

Sites that have been used as sources in the creation of an article should be cited in the article, and linked as references, either in-line or in a references section. Links to these source sites are not "external links" for the purposes of this guideline, and should not be placed in an external links section.

The style guideline on citing sources says contrasts "general references ... that support a significant amount of material in the article" with "inline citations ... that provide source information for specific statements".

If I read these guidelines correctly, the Hannah article is aptly tagged for cleanup for lacking inline citations -- but the links which are provided do serve as general references, and therefore do not belong in the external links section. Does that make sense? -- Shunpiker (talk) 04:46, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, understood: I agree with you. Extremely sexy (talk) 20:08, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Lazare Ponticelli

Even though I did most of the work, I couldn't help some of your edits to Lazare Ponticelli. I have requested a peer review at Wikipedia:Peer review/Lazare Ponticelli/archive1, in case you wish to comment. Hopefully we can improve it to GA status. Editorofthewiki 23:59, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification. Extremely sexy (talk) 20:44, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Blocked for 72 hours

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 72 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for Continued WP:BLP disruption on Ruby Muhammad despite massive warnings. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below.

After a long series of warnings about your disruption, I finally warned you earlier in January that if you continued to insert your personal bias on the Ruby Muhammad page and violating the consensus discussed in the Request for Comment you would be blocked for one week. Then you continued, but still I and others tried to discuss it with you on your talk page and you were warned by myself and others to stop being disruptive on that page. I thought the message had finally gotten through, since you seemed to be greatly improving in your edits and I was very happy. But then, for no reason whatsoever, you do this in complete disregard for the fact that the consensus on the talk page is not to reference her possible age fib due to a lack of its publication in third-party, reliable sources.

I said that "I'm fine with changing her to longevity claim, if we apply the standard to EVERYONE who turns 110 until they are verified by an international body." Well, you didn't put her in one category or the other, just accused her of not being 111 (true or not is irrelevant thanks to WP:BLP) and you didn't do the same for Yakup Satar, whom you edited three minutes before. Therefore, because you have received a dozen warnings and yet continue to be disruptive and ignore consensus on the page, I am blocking you for 72 hours. I brought it down from my original warning of a week because I think you've done a lot of constructive work over the past week or so and you've been very respectful. But nothing excuses constant disruption after this many warnings from this many users. Cheers, CP 15:45, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Comment from NealIRC

Not sure if non-admins can make comments, but here goes:

Bart, you're making too many fallacies. Italicizing your text.

just the word "alleged" is not forbidden, is it,

No of course not. For example, you could have used another word that means the same thing as "alleged." Do you think that would have made a difference?

and, by the way, for all I know she could be dead:

Wow, what does that have to do with her being born in 1897 or 1907? Or opposing consensus.

someone first changed the sentence mentioned into "she turned 111", but that isn't proven either, meaning her current status of living

Wow, always someone else's fault. The problem with your reasoning is someone else's mistakes don't justify yours. That's the thing. Two wrongs don't make a right. Neal (talk) 20:09, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

But it's honestly only just because that person changed it into a fact of mentioning her alleged 111th birthday that I added it in the first place though. Extremely sexy (talk) 21:44, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Which is the problem. It is another example of following the wrong. The problem with your argument is you're trying to blame your stupidity of following someone else in the wrong to justify your act. The problem with this argument is, it's wholly invalid. Your argument could at least make sense if it was following someone in doing the right. Neal (talk) 23:03, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

By the way, Bart, as for your editing of my text, I understand English is not your fluent language, so you follow it in a very computer-like sense. When I say the number 2 (and not two), I did it on purpose. I type out numbers, then spell them for a very courtesy reason: which is more easier for you to read, three hundred fourty-seven or 347? And, as for my usage of commas, my intent in that wasn't to try to be grammatically correct, but to let the readers know when to pause. Anyways, this is your talk page, so...

This is the difference between editing someone's text where they "accidentally" made a mistake, or when it was their intent. I understand you do not feel the word "accidentally" deserves to have quotes around it, but removing it would be redundant (assuming I did it on purpose). Neal (talk) 23:07, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I understand, but the whole point is in fact that I wanted to point out that his edit hadn't been reverted and her claimed age isn't validated at all either though. Extremely sexy (talk) 14:54, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Disruption already?

Consider this another in a long string of warnings about editing other people's talk page comments, which I believe you have been blocked for several times in the past, even beyond the dozens of warnings you've received from others. Also, in this case, you didn't even edit it properly since correct English would never say that he has "the Italian nationality". You've already done it twice in the hour that you have been back. Please, be respectful of the talk page guidelines from now on. Cheers, CP 16:52, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Here you are, a third time, this time changing the context of the individual's comments. I'll be charitable enough to attach this warning to the one above, but keep in mind you've been asked not to do this by many other people in the past. Cheers, CP 16:54, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay then, but he wrote about "the Italian nationality" himself, you know. Extremely sexy (talk) 16:58, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Consider this your final warning on editing other people's talk page comments. How many warnings do you need? Do not, under any circumstances, touch other people's comments unless it is required for the page to be readable or on your own talk page. Cheers, CP 00:32, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

It seems like Bart has made no real changes to the comments, only fixing them so it looks better to him in his understanding of English. Editorofthewiki 19:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia's talk page guidelines clearly state that no one's comments should be edited unless required for the page to display properly. Bart has not only been warned about this policy in the past, but has been blocked several times in the past for disruptively violating it. He does not have an excuse to act this way. Cheers, CP 04:16, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Got it, man. Extremely sexy (talk) 11:42, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Apparently, you haven't gotten it. How many times do you have to be warned and blocked regarding talk page guidelines? You've been asked not be disruptive in this fashion innumerable times. This disruption is too much.

You have been blocked from editing for a period of One week in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for persistent editing of other editors' talk-page comments, despite many, many requests to stop and five earlier blocks. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below. Cheers, CP 16:18, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Katherine Plunket

Bart, grow a brain. The Katherine Plunket is a European case. When BrownHairedGirl worked hard on un-stubbing it, she changed the Month N, Year format to N Month Year format. I accidentally made a mistake of putting it in the U.S. format, and fixed it. Matter fact, everywhere in the article did it use the N Month Year format, not Month N, Year. I see you already reverted to my edits twice without providing any explanation. If you revert back to the U.S. format again, I'll be sure to let BrownHairedGirl know, and I betcha you won't want her on your case.

Matter fact, the article itself also belongs to WikiProject: Ireland, and looking at several of her articles (preferably her grandfather), they all follow the N Month Year format. I don't think WikiProject: Ireland would approve of your U.S edits either.

By the way, you're not from the U.S. either, so why use the U.S. format? I know the Gerontology Research Group says "December 15" for the day Delina Filkins died, so I don't think it violates a policy for changing it to 15 December, eh? Neal (talk) 17:36, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Well: just plain logic since everywhere else in the very same article all dates are written starting with the number too. Extremely sexy (talk) 17:50, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

What number? Everywhere in her article uses the N Month Year format. Everywhere except where you previously reverted to. Neal (talk) 18:03, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

All dates should be written exactly the same way, and just one date, just like it is right now, my friend. Extremely sexy (talk) 12:56, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Not that this has anything to do with the year issue, but I do find it odd that BrownHairedGirl, who usually does a lot of work at Ireland related articles, did some work here instead of nominating for deletion or merging. Interesting... I think this inherant bias should be noted at the mass AfDs. For example, she tagged Lazare Ponticelli as non-notable and merged it into the list of French supercentenarians. Now, several months later, his article contains 13,000+ bytes and is currently awaiting promotion to Good article status. Editorofthewiki 17:54, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Take a look at the bottom of her talk posted by Carcharoth, called supercentenarians. She agreed that the Lazare Ponticelli article is no longer a stub, and has no problem with it being unmerged from the list of French supercentenarians. Neal (talk) 18:02, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Sigh... she agreed it was a stub at the time of merging it. Not anymore. So that contradicts your view of her merging it. And the mass AfDs are over now, so you can't exactly note that now. Neal (talk) 18:06, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

By the way, just for the sake of argument, she found out about the Katherine Plunket article when I posted it on the WikiProject: Ireland talk, asking if it could be unstubbable or not. Several days later, she replied "definitely unstubbable" (after Googleing her of course). She found out that Katherine Plunket was a descendant of some of the famous Irish aristocracy, an artist, somehow a relative of hers, etc. And she worked on the article (November 22). Looking at the history page, she didn't touch that article before that. Whether or not it's unusual, I don't consider it, since Katherine Plunket is part of the Irish aristocracy. Her lifespan isn't a reason to be against it. Neal (talk) 18:12, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Neal is right. I have AFDed or merged lots of articles where notability is not established, and as part of a major exercise of assessing Irish Irish articles over the last week or two I have AFDed several, prodded a dozen or more, and tagged many hundreds as unreferenced or non-notable.

One of the things that most damages wikipedia's reliability as an encyclopedia is editors who are so fond of a subject that they argue until the cows come home that everything to do with it must be notable, even where there are not enough reliable references to allow the creation of anything except a miserable little stub article which often gets padded with unsourced material or original research.

If the Katherine Plunket article hadn't been capable of expansion, I would have merged it too. The reason that I put my own time into expanding it was that a bit of research threw up a family connection (she's not a relative, but only three or four degrees of separation from me), but anyone else could have expanded it, because all my sources were found online. And, of course, if it had been merged, then it could have been unmerged if and when sources were found, just as happened with Lazare Ponticelli. Look at the article history: all the references in the current version are from after the article was merged. Ponticelli was not notable last year, but became notable after his death.

The only reason that there were mass AFDs was because a very small group of editors who didn't find any evidence of notability per WP:BIO decided to revert the mergers. The concept of notability is not that complicated, and it's a pity that some editors still prefer making snide accusations rather than maintaining the encyclopedia's standards. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:32, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Just to let you know, I was the one doing most of the edits to the article, and I'm simply noting that Plunkett was Irish, you do a lot of edits at Ireland-related articles, and you nominated quite a few articles for deletion a while before I registered. I'm not arguing that Ponticelli wasn't notable before his death, I personally think he was, only that the majority of sources are obituaries. However, in my reasearch on that person, I was able to dig up two sources that were before his death. I hold nothing against you and I do hold Katherine Plunket as notable, I'm stating some observations I have made. I've got to get out of supercentenarians right now--too much drama!--and back to the long haul of expanding French commune articles. Editorofthewiki 01:13, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Good luck to you if you can improve some of the supercentenarian articles; actually going out and finding sources which establish notability is a breath of fresh air in the midst of the crowd who don't read WP:N and argue that being old is itself evidence of notability, even if there is no substantial coverage.

However, you didn't just "state some observations", you alleged an "inherent bias". It's a pity that you didn't either check your facts or assume good faith, and that you still haven;t withdrawn the comment. C'est la vie :( --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:43, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Just thought you want to know

About this WikiProject. Editorofthewiki 19:26, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I do indeed: thanks for telling me. Extremely sexy (talk) 12:50, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Item of interest

See this. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:20, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Could you, please, undo your honestly inappropriate deletion of my own image, since I took it myself? Extremely sexy (talk) 12:54, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok hi I replied to you in my talk page. Neal (talk) 14:53, 6 April 2008 (UTC).

And I reacted already. Extremely sexy (talk) 14:56, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Juran edits

Just two comments:

• Per Template:Citation, for accessdate, "Unlinked ISO 8601 format is preferred."
• Though the WP:MOS appears silent on the subject, in practice more people omit whitespace where it does not affect rendering, e.g.,

  *list item
  

  vs.

  * list item
  

-- DanielPenfield (talk) 13:33, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, dear Daniel. Extremely sexy (talk) 13:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I assume from your response and facetious signature that you consider comments about your edits personal criticism, but that is not my intention. Here's a third comment, however:

• One should be cautious in editing subjects with which one has not familiarized himself. In particular, your lumping of half of "contribution to management" with his death makes it sound like he merely "faded away" when his autobiography makes it clear he was very active into his late eighties and really didn't fully retire until his mid nineties.

-- DanielPenfield (talk) 13:51, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

No, not at all really, but don't you think just one line for a separate paragraph entitled "Death" is too little, Daniel? Extremely sexy (talk) 13:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

• While a separate section for "death" was indeed too little, combining it the way you did was in fact worse, because it conveys misinformation and, more importantly, because it was obviously contrary to the original writer's intent in writing "contribution to management". I had considered deleting it entirely because it's redundant with both the first sentence of the article and the infobox, but stopped short because that approach tends to be too radical for most peoples' tastes. -- DanielPenfield (talk) 13:00, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Right: I do understand what you mean. Extremely sexy (talk) 21:18, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh yeah!

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Lazare Ponticelli. Editorofthewiki 01:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I voted in favour. Extremely sexy (talk) 21:19, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

EMDT

You may be interested in what I wrote here. 125.162.163.120 (talk) 03:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

It's interesting, but not very useful. Neal (talk) 17:40, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I reacted over there. Extremely sexy (talk) 20:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey Bart, in just 5 more days, Edna Parker may reach 115! Wow! We haven't had a verified 115 year-old since January 2007. This will be exciting! Neal (talk) 17:40, 15 April 2008 (UTC).

I definitely agree with you, of course. Extremely sexy (talk) 20:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't jinx it you guys... I just looked at the talk page of Emiliano Mercado del Toro, and what did HisSpaceResearch do. :( However, I think that this would be usefull on the wikiproject. Editorofthewiki 20:45, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes: so fingers crossed, my friend. Extremely sexy (talk) 20:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Editing other people's comments

How do you justify this edit or this one when you have been blocked and warned countless times for editing others comments and being warned how disruptive it is? Cheers, CP 17:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

First answer this question of mine: why are you stalking me all the time? Extremely sexy (talk) 18:46, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

http://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speciaal%3ALogboeken&type=block&user=&page=Gebruiker%3ABart+Versieck&year=&month=-1

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=&page=User%3ABart+Versieck&year=&month=-1

Maybe that's why? Aleichem (talk) 19:07, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

The Dutch Wikipedia is something else and from more than one year ago, you know. Extremely sexy (talk) 19:16, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Mr. Versieck, what is your response to the countless talk page violations you've committed over the years? Please respond. Postoak (talk) 19:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

It won't happen again. Extremely sexy (talk) 19:16, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, I would note that I'm not "stalking" you. WP:STALK has a full definition but, most importantly, "stalking" refers to the act of following an editor to another article to continue disruption and proper use of an editor's history includes (but is not limited to) fixing errors or violations of Wikipedia policy. As a user with an extensive history of disruption on talk pages, it is reasonable to keep an eye on your edits, particularly the ones on talk pages. I am not attempting to continue disruption, but stop it. Cheers, CP 19:33, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, dear Paul. Extremely sexy (talk) 20:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Blocked

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 1 week in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for abuse of editing privileges. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below.

You have been warned plenty of times and been blocked for a week just last month for exactly the same thing, even though you said then you'd got it and immediately went back on your word. Above you say it won't happen again, but why would I believe you now when you've made the same promise at least twice before and forgotten it. Your promises now carry no weight and you need to have some time off to reflect on our policies. Spend the time reading WP:TPG for a start. Your block logs here and at the Dutch Wikipedia are a disgrace and its time you started to show some respect to the rest of the community by following our policies rather than thumbing your nose at us.

You do not change other peoples edits. Minor spelling and grammatical errors should be left as you find them. —Moondyne click! 01:52, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Bart, you really got to stop doing this. Soon this will result in an indef block if you don't stop. I will talk to Moondyne about this one, but next time you make small changes to talk pages, I"ll not be doing this anymore. Editorofthewiki 01:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Moondyne did Versieck a favor by only blocking him for a week. He deserves to be permanently blocked since he has been repeating the same violation for over a year with the same "I promise not to do it again" response. Postoak (talk) 02:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Thankyou for that link Postoak - I hadn't read all of that until now and it only causes me more consternation and I do wonder if Bart has a obsessive/compulsive disorder over which he has limited control. I'm not sure what to do about this issue so have left a note at WP:AN/I#Bart Versieck for more input. —Moondyne click! 06:40, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I was going to let him go with just a warning this time, since I didn't want to be seen as having a vendetta against him, blocking him at every opportunity, but I do hope that he sees that it's a serious concern we have and not just a personal conspiracy. I'm not sure if it can be attributed to a disorder, since one of the edits that I commented on last round was not even a proper correction but, then again, I don't know enough to make that call. Cheers, CP 14:27, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, here's the deal Bart. Once this current block expires, you may return to normal editing, However, the very next time you revert another persons talk page edits you will be immediately blocked for 3 months. No warnings will be given. This condition will stand for 12 months. If this is not clear then please let me know. Your behaviour just takes too much time and energy away from people who respect this project and it is my belief that your absence won't be a large loss. I hope that you can start to play by the rules. Moondyne 06:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I am, Moondyne. Extremely sexy (talk) 14:54, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Request for comment on list of the verified oldest people

A request for comment has been initiated at Talk:List of the verified oldest people. As you have been involved in the issue, you may wish to comment there. Cheers, CP 00:19, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks: I will. Extremely sexy (talk) 10:26, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Emiliano Mercado del Toro

I know you didn't write this. I would've asked Young, since he wrote it, but since he is blocked and his talk page is protected, I'll ask you. How do you know that if 128 males live to 115, it is certain that one of them will beat Jeanne Calment? Interactive Fiction Expert/Talk to me 06:12, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Bart, this is what I said:

The odds of Emiliano catching Jeanne Calment are about 1 in

128...meaning given 128 115-year-old males, there would be an even chance of one
making it to 122.45 years old. → R Young {yakłtalk} 12:53, 19 January
2007 (UTC)

It says one needs 128 115-year-old males to get EVEN odds of catching

Jeanne Calment...NOT that someone WOULD catch Jeanne Calment.

Also, Inflict Action Expert (or whatever) should set up a Wiki e-mail

system. I can still receive e-mails.

Sincerely Robert Young

Something else

Bart, you have done so much on Wikipedia, you should nominate yourself for adminship. WP:Rfa is the page to go to do so. Just start your adminship with Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Bart Versieck, add to the top of the RfA page, and see how well your request goes. You should also tell Young to do exactly this once he gets unblocked. Interactive Fiction Expert/Talk to me 06:40, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I would truly doubt that such a RFA would pass, based solely on the block log. And that is if Young get's unblocked; many people strongly dislike him and want him banned forever (myself not included). Editorofthewiki^{review my edits here!} 00:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Well: I do have to agree with you concerning Robert Young, unfortunately so, and my own block log doesn't favour my own attempt either, but I will try regardless of the outcome, so fingers crossed for my, "Expert". Extremely sexy (talk) 12:18, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

You were warned

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 3 months in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for talk page disruption. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below. Cheers, CP 00:55, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Well Bart, you were warned after your last block that any more editing of people's comments on talk pages and you would be blocked for three months without a warning, something you stated that you clearly understood. This and especially this are unacceptable. I will now be instituting the block that Moondyne recommended.

I have reduced your block to three weeks, as I and several other admins feel three months was too harsh. However, I have reviewed your contributions, and what I see is a user who thus far has made no effort whatsoever to change his behavior despite numerous warnings and blocks. Consider this your final administrative warning. If there's a next time for such behavior, the next block will be much, much longer--and possibly indefinite. Blueboy96 18:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)