Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chicken (young gay)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep per consensus and added references. (closed by non-admin) RMHED (talk) 21:34, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chicken (young gay)

Chicken (young gay) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Wikipedia is not a dictionary or slang or idiom guide. The article also gives not reliable sources with which to verify the information within and there is no assertation of notability. Guest9999 (talk) 22:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletions. —Becksguy 15:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. --Blanchardb-Me^MyEars_MyMouth-timed 22:36, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Keep. Perhaps you should have taken any number of steps to improve the article before going to AfD? Really, this term has a long currency in the LGBT community (mainly gay men but not exclusively), and similar to Fruit (slang) has been used in many variations like chicken-plucker, chicken hawk, etc. and generally refers to someone considered younger and sexually attainable. It will take some digging but an initial search shows some promise on google, 600+ on google books and 9000+ entries in Google scholar. If needed I'll consider doing an overhaul but would prefer not having to do another of these with such a short time frame. Benjiboi 02:41, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
• Merge with Twink. The term is already mentioned on that page, and they are essentially synonymous. Queerudite (talk) 03:02, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

• Possibly but I think both terms have notability and I believe twink replaced chicken but I could be wrong. Hopefully between the two articles we could find out. Benjiboi 04:23, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

• Keep - This term has a long history in the gay community, at least since the 60s, and is the counterpart to Chicken hawk (an older gay man who chases after young guys). While Twink may have surpassed this term, it is still valid, and a rich encyclopedic entry can come if allowed to grow. Jeffpw (talk) 05:35, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - or merge with Twink. Bytebear (talk) 06:43, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. This belongs in wiktionary (and anything not already there can be transferred), not wikipedia. The word and meaning are already noted in Polari. Notability of a word is not ascertained by seeing how often it is used - that would make "the" the most notable word in the language. --Paularblaster (talk) 09:19, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
• Merge/Keep... my view tilts slightly towards merge, for the moment in any case. As the terms, although agreeably with a difference, is only a minor difference, and are very similar... I do not however think the article should be deleted. It should certainly be kept in at least one form or another, gathering from the references that it in fact does have some place here. However, if kept, the differences between the two terms must be clearly defined on both pages. Iamandrewrice 14:28, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
• Keep The original stub paints itself into the definition corner, but it can be much more than a definition. Chicken (and Chicken hawk) describe a sub rosa part gay community with often negative connotations. The term predates Stonewall, possibly back to late 1940s. Twink is not the same thing, merging with 'chicken' makes as much sense as merging chick (young woman) with bimbo. This term needs more than just a dictionary defintion, it needs context and history that Wikitionary can not give it. Jacksinterweb 15:08, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
• Strong keep as quite well-know phrase used in many motion pictures, novels, etc. I'll work on it, too, this weekend. Bearian 16:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
• Keep I know to someone unfamiliar with the term it may seem like something that can be handled with a merge or wikitionary entry, but it certainly has potential to be an article. It had quite a bit of notoriety in early 70s in the media (Tom Snyder did several shows about it for NBC and KNBC). I had forgotten about the term until it made the headlines again with the Mark Foley Scandal in 2006, with Foley being labeled a "chicken hawk" GptVestal 18:16, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Comment chickenhawk already has a seperate article. [[Guest9999 18:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC)]]

That doesn't make much of an argument against "chicken" and seems to bolster its being a "keep." I think part of the problem is that this article's stub seems to be hastily done and leaves a lot to be desired, and I certainly don't fault its nomination. If this survives the AfD hopefully something will emerge to satisfy all parties! GptVestal 19:12, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

• Keep This term is not synonymous with twink, although there is some overlap, and it definitely should not be merged with twink. In fact, chicken as a synonym for twink has been {{fact}} tagged since July 2007 (by me) in the twink article, and I would have removed it soon, as it's been four months and no citations have been provided, and I dispute it's connection. From the Twink discussion page, see my comments on chicken vs. twink here. Chicken has the connotation of an underage boy, something not normally ascribed to a twink. A quintessential twink in terms of looks is Jesse McCartney, now 20, for example, or other young male actors from TV teen drama shows, such as The O.C. or Dawson's Creek. The gay porn actor Brent Corrigan is also called a twink, and has appeared in porn films so described. Chicken isn't used as much anymore, but it was for some time, together with the term chicken hawk, an older man that preys on them. Twink does not have that association that I'm aware of. The term chicken has a rich history and deserves an article, as it's much more than a definition. However, I agree that the article, as it is, barely differentiates that term from twink, and has essentially no citations, so it needs much development. But again (as a needed sixth pillar to WP) needs improvement does not equal needs deletion. See Chickenhawk (sexuality) for more, including the citations, as they apply to this discussion, and see this citation especially: chicken (fr naut [from nautical] chicken = a young recruit // sl [slang] usu [usually] in negative context as “You’re no spring chicken”) 1. any boy under the age of consent, heterosexual, fair of face, and unfamiliar with homosexuality “So many chickens were flapping around that I thought we were touring Colonel Sander’s (sic) plantation” 2. juvenile, youthful, young-looking. Syn: chicken-looking (“You’re chicken-looking enough to pose for Maypo cereal boxes”); tender 3. (rare, kwn LV [known in Las Vegas], mid ’60s) to [sodomize] a pretty boy. From Gay Talk: A (Sometimes Outrageous) Dictionary of Gay Slang [1]. I think we want to be careful to not conflate the connotations of chicken with twink, as there are major differences between them. I agree with the arguments by Benjiboi, Jeffpw, Jacksinterweb, Bearian, and GptVestal. — Becksguy 21:44, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Not a good idea to jump on things before they have had a chance to evolve. It can always be deleted a month from now if it turns out to be trash. Haiduc 00:05, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Keep per Becksguy. "Chicken" refers to under-age males and correlates with "Chickenhawk" which is an of-age male who "goes after chicken". "Twink" is an of-age male who looks under-age, ie: a 20 year old that looks 16 as Becksguy gave an example of Jess McCartney and especially Brent Corrigan. -- ALLSTARecho 08:01, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
• Merge with Chickenhawk (sexuality) - it seems to make sense to consider those two terms together as they are intrinsically linked. There is room for an encyclopedic article here and Twink is not a synonym but I think Chicken and Chickenhawk should be discussed alongside each other to avoid duplication. WjBscribe 15:33, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

• Respectfully disagree as I'm still digging through possibly etymologies. Once this article is sorted perhaps, but I think that this article should focus on chicken only as gay slang whereas chicken hawk could cover all slang usages (gay and non-gay as well) with the two articles cross-referencing as appropriate. Benjiboi 22:29, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
• Comment I'm trying to reconcile various etymology routes and am working through cuckold in the 1600's as old man young woman thing who she is later called a prostitute and it seems most words for prostitutes became slurs against gay men (presumably the fae ones) and I'm tring to take the concise route but good luck with all that. Benjiboi 22:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

• Keep references now added and continue to be. Think we already have enough now to keep the article Whitstable 16:26, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Very well-established term --Icarus ^(Hi!) 11:23, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

• keep. It helps to explain Chicken in this specific context, to those who may have head the term, but not understood it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimothyJacobson (talk • contribs) 21:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.